DUST Search - Scouts are nigh unplayable

Shotty GoBang wrote:

Absolutely, Cipher.

In thread after thread since Uprising, Scouts have asked for assistance. We have received quite the opposite in Uprising 1.2, albeit likely an unintended consequence of improved mechanics. Either way, "nigh unplayable" is an apt description.

Adapt or Die, right? Get Good?

I'll give it a shot, but my patience is wearing thin. I have very little desire to play after being beat down in 10 or so matches this morning. Hence the time to post the following feedback (QQ to be precise)...

My Trusty Speed Tank Scout/Shotty Build (~$120,000):

Gallente Scout (Proto)
K5 Specialist Shotgun
Core Flaylock
3 Complex Kin Cats
1 Complex Armor Rep
1 Complex Shield Extender
+ Active Scanner

* 10.73 sprint speed: my only defense at under 300 total HP. Critique if you wish, but the above build made for a good time and decent odds in Uprising 1.1 Pubs (though it was total garbage in PC).

Uprising 1.1, Scout/Shotty Tactics (Ambush)

Flank, scan, surprise attack, run for cover ... rinse & repeat.

Detection was unavoidable. Hostiles (except for other Scouts) generally had time to turn around and spot me before dying to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th shotgun blast. More often than not, my shields were depleted post slaying. Speedy evasives and 137 remaining armor were all that protected me from falling to enemy fire. Fortunately, the scout's presumably small hitbox combined with erratic movement at high speed made me hard to hit while running away.

Uprising 1.2, Experience and Observations

Flank, scan, surprise attack, run ... Dangit! I keep dying while running way. Not even close to reaching a safe distance or cover. What happened to my trusty, super-speedy Proto Scout suit?

Adapt or Die, Adapt or Die ... I must adapt!

Maybe I'm supposed to try the new Armor Plates.
1) I can't fit the good ones on my suit. Non-Option.
2) Let's trade one complex kin-cat for +40 HP.
3) Still getting hit hard while running away (now more slowly).
4) Note to self: 1-2 bullets worth of more armor doesn't seem to help.

Maybe I'll try this cool new Shiny Shield thingy.
1) I can't fit the complex, let's try the Enhanced.
2) Swapped Shiny Shield Thingy for Complex Extender (using my one high slot).
3) My Proto's sittin' pretty at 200HP. This isn't gonna cut it. Gonna give it try anyway.
4) Fails. Turns off game. Proceeds to Forums.

Improved Mechanics = Bad News for Scouts

Seems most bullets fired at me now land on target, regardless of sprint speed or evasion technique. Granted, I can see how not being able to hit a Scout would frustrate the AR types. Yet in Uprising 1.1, we 'hard-to-hit' Scouts died after every other kill on average (remember, 60% of us have a KDR below 2).

Adaptation Options:
1) Find a new suit, if you want to shoot at bad guys.
2) Or find another game, if you want to be rewarded for clever play.
3) Or wait for CCP to throw us Scouts a bone. (Please hurry).

- Shotty GoBang

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AfroSunshineY Consequence Clan Choinnich 1	Posted - 2013.07.02 16:27:00 - [31] - Quote TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: Icy TIG3R wrote: You guys were bad scouts with no skills who only got by because the hit detection was trash. Scout is the hardest class to play. Get good. This statement is the truth. Is it really a surprise a suit that was meant for speed dies quickly? Well yes, when that suit isn't noticeably faster than others in the game
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 88	Posted - 2013.07.02 16:30:00 - [32] - Quote TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: Icy TIG3R wrote: You guys were bad scouts with no skills who only got by because the hit detection was trash. Scout is the hardest class to play. Get good. This statement is the truth. Is it really a surprise a suit that was meant for speed dies quickly? True but it probably doesn't have sufficient speed to be an equal tradeoff. I did notice I was killing scouts pretty easily. However, better they fix the game play/movement/framerate first then rebalance scouts rather than the other way around.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 336	Posted - 2013.07.02 16:33:00 - [33] - Quote Something tells me I'm gonna be using my proto biotic a lot more very soon
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 100	Posted - 2013.07.02 16:37:00 - [34] - Quote TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: Icy TIG3R wrote: You guys were bad scouts with no skills who only got by because the hit detection was trash. Scout is the hardest class to play. Get good. This statement is the truth. Is it really a surprise a suit that was meant for speed dies quickly? Minnie scouts have 0.3 higher movement speed than assaults. Gal scouts have 0.2 higher... A proto scout typically has 420 hp. An assault? you tell, me, I usually see 800+
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 134	Posted - 2013.07.02 16:41:00 - [35] - Quote Hm..... Well, since scouts were sort of advantaged by the unreliable hit detection I sort of expected to die more frequently in this build, so I'm not suprised to hear that is what people are reporting. Enough of my shots have missed in the past, so hopefully I also get additional kills so that this isn't entirely a disadvantage. Since CCP nerfs scouts every build and makes them continually harder to play I'm not suprised to hear that due to the hit detection and/or speed (nerf?) it's now even more challenging to play a scout. About the only thing that's suprised me at this point is that we are 2 pages into a scout thread, which even mentions girls (sorry, 'ladies') in terms of their walking animation, and Surt Gods End hasn't made any comments yet..... definitely not at all expected.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 148	Posted - 2013.07.02 16:53:00 - [36] - Quote Absolutely, Cipher. In thread after thread since Uprising, Scouts have asked for assistance. We have received quite the opposite in Uprising 1.2, albeit likely an unintended consequence of improved mechanics. Either way, "nigh unplayable" is an apt description. Adapt or Die, right? Get Good? I'll give it a shot, but my patience is wearing thin. I have very little desire to play after being beat down in 10 or so matches this morning. Hence the time to post the following feedback (QQ to be precise)... Speed Tank Scout/Shotty Build (~$120,000): Gallente Scout (Proto) K5 Specialist Shotgun Core Flaylock 3 Complex Kin Cats 1 Complex Armor Rep 1 Complex Shield Extender + Active Scanner * 10.73 sprint speed: my only defense at under 300 total HP. Critique if you wish, but the above build made for a good time and decent odds in Uprising 1.1 Pubs (though it was total garbage in PC). Uprising 1.1, Scout/Shotty Tactics (Ambush) Flank, scan, surprise attack, run for cover ... rinse & repeat. Detection was unavoidable. Hostiles (except for other Scouts) generally had time to turn around and spot me before dying to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th shotgun blast. More often than not, my shields were depleted post slaying. Speedy evasives and 137 remaining armor were all that protected me from falling to enemy fire. Fortunately, the scout's presumably small hitbox combined with erratic movement at high speed made me hard to hit while running away. Uprising 1.2, Experience and Observations Flank, scan, surprise attack, run ... Dangit! I keep dying while running way. Not even close to reaching a safe distance or cover. What happened to my trusty, super-speedy Proto Scout suit? Adapt or Die, Adapt or Die ... I must adapt! Maybe I'm supposed to try the new Armor Plates. 1) I can't fit the good ones on my suit. Non-Option. 2) Let's trade one complex kin-cat for +40 HP. 3) Still getting hit hard while running away (now more slowly). 4) Note to self: 1-2 bullets worth of more armor doesn't seem to help. Maybe I'll try this cool new Shiny Shield thingy. 1) I can't fit the complex, let's try the Enhanced. 2) Swapped Shiny Shield Thingy for Complex Extender (using my one high slot). 3) My Proto's sittin' pretty at 200HP. This isn't gonna cut it. Gonna give it try anyway. 4) Fails. Turns off game. Proceeds to Forums. Improved Mechanics = Bad News for Scouts Seems most bullets fired at me now land on target, regardless of sprint speed or evasion technique. Granted, I can see how not being able to hit a Scout would frustrate the AR types. Yet in Uprising 1.1, we 'hard-to-hit' Scouts died after every other kill on average (remember, 60% of us have a KDR below 2). Adaptation Options -------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Find a new suit, if you want to shoot at bad guys. 2) Find a new game, if you want to be rewarded for clever play. 3) Wait for CCP to throw us a bone. - Shotty GoBang
DoomLead Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 78	Posted - 2013.07.02 16:56:00 - [37] - Quote Spec Ops Cipher wrote: Scouts now move slower (bug, not design I think), and are really easy to kill. I'm having trouble achieving anything in this suit atm, dying ridiculously fast as usual, but it happens every spawn. Any other scouts finding their suits a lot worse than they were yesterday? you probably need more time getting used to 1.3 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=91068&find=unread
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2468	Posted - 2013.07.02 16:59:00 - [38] - Quote Spec Ops Cipher wrote: Morathi III wrote: Every body move slower, not only scout It hurts the scout the most. not if the heavies move slower also. Any movement speed penalty hurts heavies the most. While you still have decent speed and jumping, we don't. We can't jump 2 inches, we can't run faster than a turtle, and our hitbox is the size of an LAV.
The Cobra Commander Bojo's School of the Trades 47	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:04:00 - [39] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Absolutely, Cipher. In thread after thread since Uprising, Scouts have asked for assistance. We have received quite the opposite in Uprising 1.2, albeit likely an unintended consequence of improved mechanics. Either way, "nigh unplayable" is an apt description. Adapt or Die, right? Get Good? I'll give it a shot, but my patience is wearing thin. I have very little desire to play after being beat down in 10 or so matches this morning. Hence the time to post the following feedback (QQ to be precise)... My Trusty Speed Tank Scout/Shotty Build (~$120,000): Gallente Scout (Proto) K5 Specialist Shotgun Core Flaylock 3 Complex Kin Cats 1 Complex Armor Rep 1 Complex Shield Extender + Active Scanner * 10.73 sprint speed: my only defense at under 300 total HP. Critique if you wish, but the above build made for a good time and decent odds in Uprising 1.1 Pubs (though it was total garbage in PC). Uprising 1.1, Scout/Shotty Tactics (Ambush) Flank, scan, surprise attack, run for cover ... rinse & repeat. Detection was unavoidable. Hostiles (except for other Scouts) generally had time to turn around and spot me before dying to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th shotgun blast. More often than not, my shields were depleted post slaying. Speedy evasives and 137 remaining armor were all that protected me from falling to enemy fire. Fortunately, the scout's presumably small hitbox combined with erratic movement at high speed made me hard to hit while running away. Uprising 1.2, Experience and Observations Flank, scan, surprise attack, run ... Dangit! I keep dying while running way. Not even close to reaching a safe distance or cover. What happened to my trusty, super-speedy Proto Scout suit? Adapt or Die, Adapt or Die ... I must adapt! Maybe I'm supposed to try the new Armor Plates. 1) I can't fit the good ones on my suit. Non-Option. 2) Let's trade one complex kin-cat for +40 HP. 3) Still getting hit hard while running away (now more slowly). 4) Note to self: 1-2 bullets worth of more armor doesn't seem to help. Maybe I'll try this cool new Shiny Shield thingy. 1) I can't fit the complex, let's try the Enhanced. 2) Swapped Shiny Shield Thingy for Complex Extender (using my one high slot). 3) My Proto's sittin' pretty at 200HP. This isn't gonna cut it. Gonna give it try anyway. 4) Fails. Turns off game. Proceeds to Forums. Improved Mechanics = Bad News for Scouts Seems most bullets fired at me now land on target, regardless of sprint speed or evasion technique. Granted, I can see how not being able to hit a Scout would frustrate the AR types. Yet in Uprising 1.1, we 'hard-to-hit' Scouts died after every other kill on average (remember, 60% of us have a KDR below 2). Adaptation Options: 1) Find a new suit, if you want to shoot at bad guys. 2) Or find another game, if you want to be rewarded for clever play. 3) Or wait for CCP to throw us Scouts a bone. (Please hurry). - Shotty GoBang Wow...I have not played yet but I have been told that the suits are noticeably slower.
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 103	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:05:00 - [40] - Quote Not sure if it's just because everything feels slower, but i feel as though scouts can't jump as high as yesterday either. Heavies do need a portable stepladder built into their suit.

kanders Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 11	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:11:00 - [41] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: ] Adaptation Options: 1) Find a new suit, if you want to shoot at bad guys. 2) Or find another game, if you want to be rewarded for clever play. 3) Or wait for CCP to throw us Scouts a bone. (Please hurry). - Shotty GoBang Downloaded the update this morning but didn't have a chance to play. This certainly doesn't make me excited about logging on tonight. And to think I was actually feeling a little better about the scout community after you put that registry together.
BARDAS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:18:00 - [42] - Quote I really hope reports are exagerrated because I already died enough as it is. Squashing bugs is good and improving mechanics is good, but destroying a type of gameplay in the process is not. Something should have been added to benefit the Scout. Will give it a shot myself once I get off work. If it is too bad will probably just go pickup that copy of Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen I been eyeballing and wait a couple month and try again.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 151	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:30:00 - [43] - Quote kanders wrote: Downloaded the update this morning but didn't have a chance to play. This certainly doesn't make me excited about logging on tonight. And to think I was actually feeling a little better about the scout community after you put that registry together. The Scout Registry will continue to be updated regularly. We have collected Uprising 1.1 statistics for 83 scouts. I'll keep track of exactly how hard each of us has been hit by Uprising 1.2. Plummeting statistics will make for sound debate. Not that anyone cares, but I'll quit the game before I abandon the Scout Suit and our Scout Community. I'm hoping that an upcoming "Rapid-Fire Update" makes things better for us sooner rather than later. CCP has shown us little love, but they are responsive to their player base, and I'll give 'em a fair chance before throwing in the towel. - Shotty GoBang
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 154	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:38:00 - [44] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: You guys were bad scouts with no skills who only got by because the hit detection was trash. Spec Ops Cipher (OP) is one of the best Scouts in the game. The concerns of a Scout with over 20,000 kills should not be dismissed so readily.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 154	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:40:00 - [45] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Oh boy not liking the sound of this sigh ok I'll see for myself soon then report back I suspect you'll find your Mass Driver more agreeable today, Sinboto. You'll also be happy to find smoother mechanics and fewer instances of sticky walls and terrain.
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 104	Posted - 2013.07.02 18:02:00 - [46] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: kanders wrote: Downloaded the update this morning but didn't have a chance to play. This certainly doesn't make me excited about logging on tonight. And to think I was actually feeling a little better about the scout community after you put that registry together. The Scout Registry will continue to be updated regularly. We have collected Uprising 1.1 statistics for 83 scouts. I'll keep track of exactly how hard each of us has been hit by Uprising 1.2. Plummeting statistics will make for sound debate. Not that anyone cares, but I'll quit the game before I abandon the Scout Suit and our Scout Community. I'm hoping that an upcoming "Rapid-Fire Update" makes things better for us sooner rather than later. CCP has shown us little love, but they are responsive to their player base, and I'll give 'em a fair chance before throwing in the towel. - Shotty GoBang I am one of the many people that appreciate your work on the Scout Registry, I think it will show an interesting trend in the next week or so, although not a positive one. Stand strong scouts, stand together!
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 572	Posted - 2013.07.02 18:15:00 - [47] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: kanders wrote: Downloaded the update this morning but didn't have a chance to play. This certainly doesn't make me excited about logging on tonight. And to think I was actually feeling a little better about the scout community after you put that registry together. The Scout Registry will continue to be updated regularly. We have collected Uprising 1.1 statistics for 83 scouts. I'll keep track of exactly how hard each of us has been hit by Uprising 1.2. Plummeting statistics will make for sound debate. Not that anyone cares, but I'll quit the game before I abandon the Scout Suit and our Scout Community. I'm hoping that an upcoming "Rapid-Fire Update" makes things better for us sooner rather than later. CCP has shown us little love, but they are responsive to their player base, and I'll give 'em a fair chance before throwing in the towel. - Shotty GoBang I agree. If the frame rate and other changes had the unintentional consequence of making Scouts ventrally unplayable, then I am sure this will cause CCP to reprioritise the balancing of Scouts. If this is the case, then Scouts will have a hard time in 1.2, but will likely receive buffs in 1.3 if they are not hot fixed in sooner. Of course there is also the danger that since this nerf was unintentional, CCP may over react and over buff Scouts, making them the FTM class in 1.3. I suspect that the hard core Scouts in here donGÇÖt want that either. So I suggest giving rational suggestions for how to fix the problem so that CCP has some good ideas to work with rather than taking a knee jerk approach. I have played Scout off and on, and would like to see Scouts function as they should. Currently I use the toughest Scout suite available: the Minmitar Assault suit.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 891	Posted - 2013.07.02 18:19:00 - [48] - Quote On the plus side, as a scout, I should be able to snipe the bastards easier now too!
The Cobra Commander Bojo's School of the Trades 47	Posted - 2013.07.02 18:21:00 - [49] - Quote Guys I just played a couple of games and what is said in this thread is true...and for those saying "get gud" and all that... The game is slower I think but the weapons seem to have further range and do considerable damage even as you are running away and putting extreme distance between you and the enemy (was mowed down by a militia smg at a range I should have been safe!). Also, we cannot jump as high anymore. Good luck trying to get out of the way of flaylocks now...and even mass drivers. Also CQC is still choppy at times and does not run smooth. If you use knives you will see this. I will play a little more tonight but playing scout is really going to be for the dedicated.
Morathi III Pro Hic Immortalis 114	Posted - 2013.07.02 18:48:00 - [50] - Quote That affect the entire CQC department not only the scout but also other Shotgunner, i just try some matches and cant do anything because im too slow

mollerz Minja Scouts 546	Posted - 2013.07.02 19:05:00 - [51] - Quote I think your movmeent actually seems to slow down if you are fighting more than two people. Sprinting at least. I can run in fast, but as sooon as everyone catche son to me and starts firing, my movement slows down considerably and I become toast. it's liek the game slows me down so everyone has a chance to shoot me. The frame rate seems very improved however. I seem to be having some hit detection issues with the knives, but it is hard to tell right now. I want to give it some more time. Certainly, the game has changed :)
Lycuo Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 33	Posted - 2013.07.02 19:06:00 - [52] - Quote I am just wondering why their walking speed has been slowed down? I need to be able to escape
BARDAS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2013.07.02 20:35:00 - [53] - Quote So I went home for my lunch break and installed the update and had time for a single Ambush match. I found that my run speed is slow, but my strafe speed is increased. It honestly feels like I can run sideways faster than I can run forwards... kind of like a crab or something... anywho... The Nova Knives charge/attack sound changed as well as the charge speed it seems to me. I'm charging them faster it seems than in 1.1. If anyone else with knives can confirm that would be awesome. I'm going to play a bunch more later when I get home also. In regards to the match I played we got horribly, horribly, horribly, pubstomped into the ground. I went 1-6 K/D though I still ended up #1 on the boards for my team simply because everyone was using my drop uplinks and pumping me full of WP. Never did get a chance to stab anyone and my SMG seemed like a BB gun in comparison to the AR ProtoStompers we went off against. Guess I will need to play more tonight for a better account of the changes. Didn't get to see the snow people are talking about yet either. And yeah it was harder to dodge.
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 107	Posted - 2013.07.02 21:39:00 - [54] - Quote Tomorrow I'm gonna skill into flaylocks. I need an edge :/
The Cobra Commander Bojo's School of the Trades 48	Posted - 2013.07.02 21:59:00 - [55] - Quote Spec Ops Cipher wrote: Tomorrow I'm gonna skill into flaylocks. I need an edge :/ Just watched a scout vid on Youtube using knives and the flaylock...miss with the knife or get bad hit detection....no problem just pull out flaylock and aim at their feet +50!
grunt party BetaMax. CRONOS. 2	Posted - 2013.07.02 22:01:00 - [56] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: You guys were bad scouts with no skills who only got by because the hit detection was trash. Scout is the hardest class to play. Get good. you never played with spec then i have played with him many times and HE IS GOOD and has skill. im not a scout(only at random times) but even i can see how hard the patch has hit them. and i never had much trouble killing scouts if at the appropriate range e.c.t. u must just be S**T
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 112	Posted - 2013.07.02 22:21:00 - [57] - Quote grunt party wrote: Icy TIG3R wrote: You guys were bad scouts with no skills who only got by because the hit detection was trash. Scout is the hardest class to play. Get good. you never played with spec then i have played with him many times and HE IS GOOD and has skill. im not a scout(only at random times) but even i can see how hard the patch has hit them. and i never had much trouble killing scouts if at the appropriate range e.c.t. u must just be S**T Aww thank you :)
Dust Project 514 Dust Evo 514 74	Posted - 2013.07.02 22:22:00 - [58] - Quote This seems bad. I will give my scout a go later. I'm too upset at how fast my minmatar Medium gets dropped by HMGs, ARs, and MDs, now. :(
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 339	Posted - 2013.07.03 00:10:00 - [59] - Quote I've just played a match and have come back with my report are you ready for this extremely long and detailed report well here it is Sinboto's extremely long and detailed report: oh ****
Sleepy Zan Sleepytime Gorilla Mercenaries 2349	Posted - 2013.07.03 00:42:00 - [60] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: On the plus side, as a scout, I should be able to snipe the bastards easier now too! Scouts make terrible snipers



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