DUST Search - "Consciousness Transfer" + Soul

Chunky Munkey wrote:

Dust Project 514 wrote:

Chunky Munkey wrote:

Sshh, us nerds had this argument already over Star Trek. When you're teleported, you're basically destroyed in one location and a replica is built in another.
What I really want to know is: what the hell is my merc qtr clone doing while I'm deployed? Is he in a braindead stasis? Does he get a memory update after battles? And why's he in a suit?

It's a philosophical conversation about the nature of consciousness really.

If you were created 3 seconds ago, with a brain full of fake memories, how would you know?

I'm am thrilled to know that there are others out there who have thought about these things. I also came to the same POSSIBLE conclusion about tubeless teleportation.

About the merc qtr: Maybe they teleport (within the rules of the Eve universe) when in close proximity to certain areas, which could be used as an excuse to why we just phase into the battle field, when we are NOT spawning out of CRUs or Uplinks.

About the last question:

I don't think it would ultimately matter, as it is a new life, a new person, just with pieces of a previous personality. Treat them as you would anyone else.

Ah, but that happens every second. At every moment, the arrangement of the particles in your body is being shuffled. You aren't the same person you were when you started reading this.

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Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 608	Posted - 2013.06.28 21:44:00 - [31] - Quote Dust Project 514 wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Sshh, us nerds had this argument already over Star Trek. When you're teleported, you're basically destroyed in one location and a replica is built in another. What I really want to know is: what the hell is my merc qtr clone doing while I'm deployed? Is he in a braindead stasis? Does he get a memory update after battles? And why's he in a suit? It's a philosophical conversation about the nature of consciousness really. If you were created 3 seconds ago, with a brain full of fake memories, how would you know? I'm am thrilled to know that there are others out there who have thought about these things. I also came to the same POSSIBLE conclusion about tubeless teleportation. About the merc qtr: Maybe they teleport (within the rules of the Eve universe) when in close proximity to certain areas, which could be used as an excuse to why we just phase into the battle field, when we are NOT spawning out of CRUs or Uplinks. About the last question: I don't think it would ultimately matter, as it is a new life, a new person, just with pieces of a previous personality. Treat them as you would anyone else. Ah, but that happens every second. At every moment, the arrangement of the particles in your body is being shuffled. You aren't the same person you were when you started reading this.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 489	Posted - 2013.06.28 21:45:00 - [32] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyYS-GzBSIg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 433	Posted - 2013.06.28 21:50:00 - [33] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: calisk galern wrote: yep it's not a transfer, at least back when I played you would lose SP if you died and didn't back up your clone recently. I remember those days. Whenever I got podded it was followed by "****! I forgot to back up recently." I had to retrain BC 5 cause I forgot to update a clone. Thankfully, it was well before Odyssey.
Skihids Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION 1670	Posted - 2013.06.28 21:58:00 - [34] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Dust Project 514 wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Sshh, us nerds had this argument already over Star Trek. When you're teleported, you're basically destroyed in one location and a replica is built in another. What I really want to know is: what the hell is my merc qtr clone doing while I'm deployed? Is he in a braindead stasis? Does he get a memory update after battles? And why's he in a suit? It's a philosophical conversation about the nature of consciousness really. If you were created 3 seconds ago, with a brain full of fake memories, how would you know? I'm am thrilled to know that there are others out there who have thought about these things. I also came to the same POSSIBLE conclusion about tubeless teleportation. About the merc qtr: Maybe they teleport (within the rules of the Eve universe) when in close proximity to certain areas, which could be used as an excuse to why we just phase into the battle field, when we are NOT spawning out of CRUs or Uplinks. About the last question: I don't think it would ultimately matter, as it is a new life, a new person, just with pieces of a previous personality. Treat them as you would anyone else. Ah, but that happens every second. At every moment, the arrangement of the particles in your body is being shuffled. You aren't the same person you were when you started reading this. Both you and your copy would begin to diverge immediately after he copy was made, though that could be considered inconsequential for the timeframe being discussed. So, would it matter to you (the original) which version I disposed of?
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4609	Posted - 2013.06.28 21:58:00 - [35] - Quote I always assumed that "consciousness transfer" they always meant transferring a file of your current brain states and structure, and then applied it to the new brain to create the same consciousness again. Consciousness, or the mind is generated by the current physical structure of your brain. Consciousness/mind is a process or action performed by the brain, much like how running is a process or action performed by the legs.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 2159	Posted - 2013.06.28 23:43:00 - [36] - Quote As the robot devil said the best way to remove god is the "proof denies faith" argument, Douglas adam's summed it up best, go have a look, he sets it out quite nicely and amusingly. Now then, ad others have stated the crux of the argument is what you consider a "soul" to be, is is something that only the original version has or do all the copies have it too? Is it something tangible or intangible? Is it tied to your body or you mind? Emotions or thoughts? Is it a product of your identity or the basis of it? And when it comes to concousness transfer is the process like a series of pools, similar but disconnected or like a stream, one single connected entity. You sir (to the OP) has started a thread that can hold a thousand different opinions and have none of them be wrong, even if this kind of tech actually existed there could still be no conclusive debate to end this. And since I'm a bastard I'm dropping a quite from assassin's creed, from subject 16 "what is a man but the sums of his memories? We are the stories we live! The tales we tell ourselves!"
Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 203	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:31:00 - [37] - Quote Let's ask the Cylons.
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 136	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:38:00 - [38] - Quote Think the difference is not a soul but a time delay. With dust mercs the copy and transfer is instant...while an EvE pilot the makes a copy before he/she dies and keeps it safe to take over if she/he dies. The EvE pilot makes a back up copy...the dust merc makes a back-up copy really really fast and only when he dies. It does no prove the soul exists.
Wolverine Canus Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 25	Posted - 2013.06.29 00:53:00 - [39] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Let's ask the Cylons. Who knows? ASIMO today, super hot chick tommorrow But seriously i would think my merc would choose to believe in conscionous after death and only when the Amarr people rule all else then God would free his soul to find rest in Heaven. Tadah!
Saki Seto DUST University Ivy League 13	Posted - 2013.06.29 01:10:00 - [40] - Quote Nothing is moved but information. The 'self' is destroyed and a new 'self' is created. You are not immortal.

Avallo Kantor DUST University Ivy League 118	Posted - 2013.06.29 01:26:00 - [41] - Quote Can't believe nobody linked the relevant lore article yet: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Death Basic highlights: Some people in New Eden say that the soul is NOT transferred, and all you have is a mere copy. Many religions however simply say that the soul (since we have no scientific evidence for it's existence) also moves itself to the new Clone. -Some people say that the soul will be naturally pulled along by the consciousness of the user as though anchored to it.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 44	Posted - 2013.06.29 01:42:00 - [42] - Quote Confirming you still need to keep you clone upgraded if you like having level 5 skills.
Saki Seto DUST University Ivy League 13	Posted - 2013.06.29 01:48:00 - [43] - Quote Only God can grant eternal life, not this pagan technology.
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 379	Posted - 2013.06.29 02:33:00 - [44] - Quote Saki Seto wrote: Only God can grant eternal life, not this pagan technology. My god would make us immortal thru our acheivements as mortals. Tech would be from the seeds of his thoughts placed within the gifted
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 979	Posted - 2013.06.29 03:49:00 - [45] - Quote Our God has released us from the cycle of death, we will finish our crusade.
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 140	Posted - 2013.06.29 05:43:00 - [46] - Quote blah blah blah, life and death stuff. see, i can be deep too!
Jeremiah ambromot Pro Hic Immortalis 30	Posted - 2013.06.29 06:08:00 - [47] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: I remember one of my favorite quotes seen in an EVE bio. Don't know if he got it from somewhere else, though. "I am but the living memories of a man who died before me." Some pretty existential stuff there. All capsuleers and DUST mercs are copies, plain and simple. For the religious angle, if God wants your soul tethered to only one body, that's how it's going to be, no matter how many times you copy the conciousness. God's going to take your soul when your birth body dies, and leave the souless abomination of your memory-carrying avatar to walk the galaxy. This is what the Amarr believe, and it's why clones and capsuleers are considered to be somewhat of an abomination. The new implant doesn't change that. Focusing on the one soul taken at death. What if through technology I was able to cut you in half right down the middle from top to bottom but as I cut I hooked every part up to machinery so that you at no point died. Now that I have two halves, both alive, I clone you and attach the cloned parts to your two original halves. There are now two perfectly identical versions of you that are half clone and half original. Neither has died. Wich one has the one single soul?
Gigatron Prime The.Primes 83	Posted - 2013.06.29 06:17:00 - [48] - Quote Even if this sort of technology existed today, I would still have qualms about dying. Just imagine, for a moment, that you die. Your brain chemistry, all that makes up you; the conciousness, is transferred or copied into a clone body. If anything, you are dead but there is a mimic of you that lives. I die, but an exact replica wanders the world. So in a sense, all this technology gives us is something like children. A legacy of ourselves. I don't think we are truly immortal. We just keep creating and copying life in our likeness. Is that what it is really? What is behind the concept of immortality? That you will never die? That your consciousness will never die? What is going on here? Now I am just lost.
Kiro Justice Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2013.06.29 06:34:00 - [49] - Quote Immor-Ception...
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 612	Posted - 2013.06.30 11:17:00 - [50] - Quote Most mature conversation on these forums???

Skihids Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION 1674	Posted - 2013.07.01 03:49:00 - [51] - Quote You die, but an exact copy is made which fools everyone including the copy itself. There is no consciousness or soul that is separate from the body, so there isn't anything you to transfer. You can make up stories about a soul though, and then you can declare it moves or not as you wish since it's your imagination. Anyone who really thought it over would come to that conclusion and not volunteer to become a DUST merc, so we can't be the brightest of New Eden.
Drako Light ZionTCD 15	Posted - 2013.07.01 04:08:00 - [52] - Quote This all reminds me of Ghost in a Shell. The people transfer there minds into a cyber body.


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