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A balancing idea for the Logis.

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N1ck Comeau Pro Hic Immortalis 519	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:24:00 - [1] - Quote So as far as i know the only reason logis are super good is because they are simple Better at killing then the Assault suit. Suit descriptions by CCP Assault The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield. Logi The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support. So clearly we can tell CCP wanted Assaults to be good killers and logis to be good at helping the team in an equipment sense. Here is what i purpose. Assaults stay the same. There pretty balanced it just no one really uses them sense the Logi is them but better. Logis get 25% reduction to Cpu and Pg on equipment. Four equipment slots. Logis get less high and low slots. Logis get 2 sidearm slots to make them less combat oriented. Around 150 armour and shields (Base) depending or racial variants this can change. I know a lot of people say it's only the Caldari Logi that is unbalanced but i've seen all of the racial variants be exceptional well Assaults
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 1995	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:29:00 - [2] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: I know a lot of people say it's only the Caldari Logi that is unbalanced but i've seen all of the racial variants be exceptional well Assaults As an Amarr Logi... that is a damn lie, shut up
N1ck Comeau Pro Hic Immortalis 520	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:31:00 - [3] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: I know a lot of people say it's only the Caldari Logi that is unbalanced but i've seen all of the racial variants be exceptional well Assaults As an Amarr Logi... that is a damn lie, shut up It depends if you use yours as an Assault or an actual Logi.
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 139	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:33:00 - [4] - Quote As a Cal Logi (and apologist)... we are not better at killing. We are better at staying alive. We are actually slightly worse at killing. Everybody else just wants to stand in front of me and see who wins the AR measuring contest and dies too fast. /shrug
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2123	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:34:00 - [5] - Quote How are all logis the problem again? Don't just talk about trees, flowers, and feelings. I want to see some fitting maker stats where the Amarr, Gallente, and Minmatar can get more EHP than the Caldari.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 1995	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:34:00 - [6] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: I know a lot of people say it's only the Caldari Logi that is unbalanced but i've seen all of the racial variants be exceptional well Assaults As an Amarr Logi... that is a damn lie, shut up It depends if you use yours as an Assault or an actual Logi. the Amarr logi was the logi that was designed to be the most assault like, something it fails it, but that doesn't matter, because the Amarr assault sucks just as much, as does the heavy.... h'mm, there seems to be a pattern here.
N1ck Comeau Pro Hic Immortalis 520	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:36:00 - [7] - Quote Ok sense it seems i was wrong in one point let me retract that statement. The Caldari Logi is the problem and the other logis are balanced.
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 139	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:40:00 - [8] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: Ok sense it seems i was wrong in one point let me retract that statement. The Caldari Logi is the problem and the other logis are balanced.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 594	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:43:00 - [9] - Quote The Gallente logi bonus should be the general logi bonus. And the Caldari assault bonus should be the general assault bonus extended to all light weapons. At least, that's my suggestion. After all: what Gallente Assault in their right mind shield tanks? As for the racial logi bonuses: they seem better suited to other specialisations to be rather honest. A boost to shields makes perect sense for a Caldari sentinel, and an armour repair bonus to the Amarr sentinel would make it a terrifying force Vs anything other than explosives. And the Minny hacking bonus? Imagine that on a scout - profile dampened, with high movement & hack speed. I guess I'm just saying that the specialisation bonuses are poorly thought through, and the Cal Logi is just the most obvious example.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2124	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:50:00 - [10] - Quote Just give assaults damage bonuses for their racial weapons.

Dao Ferret BetaMax. CRONOS. 120	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:56:00 - [11] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Just give assaults damage bonuses for their racial weapons. I think the problem is, that right now bonuses are tied to modules, so they need to rework the system to let them do just that. Might be one of the reasons why we haven't seen more racial dropsuits show up? (so they can limit how much they'll have to go back and change/fix when/if they make the change that lets them work in a better, more logical, way?)
GVGMODE 187. League of Infamy 13	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:14:00 - [12] - Quote Same race, same manufacturer, same idea. Except that the assault suits are capable of using a flaylock and wipe anything in a couple of shots, if you have trouble killing a shield based suit just flux it and it is gone.... easy kills
N1ck Comeau Pro Hic Immortalis 525	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:20:00 - [13] - Quote GVGMODE wrote: Same race, same manufacturer, same idea. Except that the assault suits are capable of using a flaylock and wipe anything in a couple of shots, if you have trouble killing a shield based suit just flux it and it is gone.... easy kills Logis can use a Flaylock as well
Purona Militaires Sans Jeux 12	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:23:00 - [14] - Quote logis are balanced assault just dont like to see things with one stat thats better than there's
IR Scifi Silver Talon Corporation 38	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:28:00 - [15] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: As a Cal Logi (and apologist)... we are not better at killing. We are better at staying alive. We are actually slightly worse at killing. Everybody else just wants to stand in front of me and see who wins the AR measuring contest and dies too fast. /shrug As a minmater logi with my totally OP hacking bonus this is pretty much how I run too. I use a mass driver and frequently work as the cleanup crew (or as my corp mates call it "being a kill stealing bastard") finishing off anyone left and then picking up the remaining bits and pieces of my squad. In a one on one against just about anyone I won't survive (barring the rare and special unicorn of a direct hit). The problem as I see it always comes back to A) There's hardly any reason to use any weapon besides an AR and B) The Caldari logi shield bonus should be tuned down a smidge. Also I have three words to anyone suggesting taking away our light slots and giving us two sidearms instead: DUAL FLAYLOCK PISTOLS
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 146	Posted - 2013.06.26 22:57:00 - [16] - Quote IR Scifi wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: As a Cal Logi (and apologist)... we are not better at killing. We are better at staying alive. We are actually slightly worse at killing. Everybody else just wants to stand in front of me and see who wins the AR measuring contest and dies too fast. /shrug As a minmater logi with my totally OP hacking bonus this is pretty much how I run too. I use a mass driver and frequently work as the cleanup crew (or as my corp mates call it "being a kill stealing bastard") finishing off anyone left and then picking up the remaining bits and pieces of my squad. In a one on one against just about anyone I won't survive (barring the rare and special unicorn of a direct hit). The problem as I see it always comes back to A) There's hardly any reason to use any weapon besides an AR and B) The Caldari logi shield bonus should be tuned down a smidge. Also I have three words to anyone suggesting taking away our light slots and giving us two sidearms instead: DUAL FLAYLOCK PISTOLS The thing is, this is a game about specialization and emergent tactical team play. That is the end goal anyway; TBQH, this game is not and should not be designed around solo kdr whoring IMO. Current implied logi roles based on design choices as I see them IMHO: Amarr: You are a hybrid, the logi for the guy who wants to play assault. You're amarr, so you're slow; but your high base HP allows greater benefit from passive % skills and slightly makes up for your limited slot layout. Your slot layout is limited because you get a sidearm which allows you to play this class just like an assault and improves your ability to KILL things, but with greater utility through equipment. Your racial bonus provides simliar fast recovery assaults enjoy and allows you to keep up with logistics on the frontline; you are honestly a tertiary "logi" who should be running an injector to pick the guy next to you up so your rep logis don't have to take time away from reps and the utility equipment other logis can't spare a slot for (scanner, remote explosives, proximity mines, upcoming modules like deployable shields, etc.). Caldari: You are a combat support logi / slayer support. Your high hitpoints allow you to be a bit closer to the front line than your Gallente counterparts, but you do not have the offensive benefit of a sidearm enjoyed by your Amarr counterpart or the inherent fast recovery of an assault, so you still need to let them go first. You give up an equipment slot for this survivability. You are not as fast as your Minmatar counterparts so are a less effective flanker or harasser, but can keep up with a hit-and-run squad of slayers and take advantage of the 2-target reps to keep a group of assaults pushing forward. You are meant to be right behind your slayers repping them, and putting out suppressive fire to blunt advances as your slayers/heavies reload or your comrades fall. You are the secondary "logi" on the defensive who will be first to switch from reps to guns to hold the line while your gallente counterparts put humpty dumpty back together again. Gallente: Primary squad support player ("Logi") / Heavy support: You're slow as **** so you keep up with heavies just fine. Your racial bonus allows you to stack proto reps, proto uplinks, proto/repair nanohives, proto injector and be the core of any bunker defense. Your armor tank takes advantage of inate logi armor repair and you stack plates and reps. You also stack complex shield extenders to protect against explosive damage coming into your squad. You're role is to support your squad from behind your heavies and the rest of the squad alive in the classic logistics manner. Minmatar: Speed and utility. This is the guy that is going to sprint from the MCC to objectives, lay down proto drop uplinks, proto nanohives, and remote explosives. He's going to hold back rather than rushing forward alone, wait for his team to spawn, throw out reps from behind teammates as he can, harass with a Tac AR or shotgun to protect the squad's flanks in CQC, but generally be looking for a way to flank, harass, and move the line of combat. So any of the other logis who wanted to be a frontline combat support logi or run and gun with slayers and didn't choose Caldari, well, you just didn't choose wisely for your desired role and should have done some better analysis before hand. Saying "Caldari logi is OP" is simplistic. It has more to do with current meta and squad tactics seen most often, and even more to do with external factors like armor vs. shield balance.
DEVILJIN 49 Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.06.26 23:24:00 - [17] - Quote Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year 1080p Ultra settings at Night Intense Open Field Battle 100 Man Infantry Objective Push Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Planetside 2 Machinima Factions Explained Why you should Play Planetside 2 From Vets
Jim887654 Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.27 03:05:00 - [18] - Quote Great points, anything to lower the assault effect a logi has.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 434	Posted - 2013.06.27 03:08:00 - [19] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: I know a lot of people say it's only the Caldari Logi that is unbalanced but i've seen all of the racial variants be exceptional well Assaults As an Amarr Logi... that is a damn lie, shut up It depends if you use yours as an Assault or an actual Logi. the Amarr logi was the logi that was designed to be the most assault like, something it fails it, but that doesn't matter, because the Amarr assault sucks just as much, as does the heavy.... h'mm, there seems to be a pattern here. I use the Amarr assault just fine. It's a bit slow but has more HP and CPU/PG then the other races.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2010	Posted - 2013.06.27 03:12:00 - [20] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: more HP and CPU/PG then the other races. It has about 60 more base HP, and then loses that advantage once you add in slot count, speed is just it's nail in the coffin, though I agree that the CPU and PG is nice.

Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2010	Posted - 2013.06.27 03:14:00 - [21] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: GVGMODE wrote: Same race, same manufacturer, same idea. Except that the assault suits are capable of using a flaylock and wipe anything in a couple of shots, if you have trouble killing a shield based suit just flux it and it is gone.... easy kills Logis can use a Flaylock as well Logis have to pick between AR and flaylock.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 435	Posted - 2013.06.27 03:26:00 - [22] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: more HP and CPU/PG then the other races. It has about 60 more base HP, and then loses that advantage once you add in slot count, speed is just it's nail in the coffin, though I agree that the CPU and PG is nice. Yea but with that 180 shield and armor you get more health via skills than other suits since you have a higher amount of HP and the skill increases HP by a percentage. I'm not bothered by the speed. It really isn't that slow. If it wasn't for the amarr assault I wouldn't be able to equip 3 complex dmg mods and a prototype swarm launcher with armor mods.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2012	Posted - 2013.06.27 03:30:00 - [23] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: more HP and CPU/PG then the other races. It has about 60 more base HP, and then loses that advantage once you add in slot count, speed is just it's nail in the coffin, though I agree that the CPU and PG is nice. Yea but with that 180 shield and armor you get more health via skills than other suits since you have a higher amount of HP and the skill increases HP by a percentage. I'm not bothered by the speed. It really isn't that slow. If it wasn't for the amarr assault I wouldn't be able to equip 3 complex dmg mods and a prototype swarm launcher with armor mods. 60 x 1.25 = 75 An extender is 78 with the skill maxed You've been lied to bro, you're higher HP doesn't exist. But Kudo's to you for still doing well despite using the worst assault in the game.
FATPrincess - XOXO Shining Flame Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.06.27 03:31:00 - [24] - Quote Stop with the sidearm-only suggestions ffs. Buffing the assault suits and changing the lolcalLogi bonus is what we need. -XOXO
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2012	Posted - 2013.06.27 03:36:00 - [25] - Quote @ Kane 450 EHP for Ammar Assault with maxed skills + 234 using 3 shield extenders =684 EHP A Caldari Assault with 4 extenders has 702.9 EHP On the plus side, you saved yourself the cost of 1 extender.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 437	Posted - 2013.06.27 04:55:00 - [26] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: more HP and CPU/PG then the other races. It has about 60 more base HP, and then loses that advantage once you add in slot count, speed is just it's nail in the coffin, though I agree that the CPU and PG is nice. Yea but with that 180 shield and armor you get more health via skills than other suits since you have a higher amount of HP and the skill increases HP by a percentage. I'm not bothered by the speed. It really isn't that slow. If it wasn't for the amarr assault I wouldn't be able to equip 3 complex dmg mods and a prototype swarm launcher with armor mods. 60 x 1.25 = 75 An extender is 78 with the skill maxed You've been lied to bro, you're higher HP doesn't exist. But Kudo's to you for still doing well despite using the worst assault in the game. No I'm talking about the skill that increases your base HP. My base HP is 216 for both shield and armor.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2015	Posted - 2013.06.27 05:00:00 - [27] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: more HP and CPU/PG then the other races. It has about 60 more base HP, and then loses that advantage once you add in slot count, speed is just it's nail in the coffin, though I agree that the CPU and PG is nice. Yea but with that 180 shield and armor you get more health via skills than other suits since you have a higher amount of HP and the skill increases HP by a percentage. I'm not bothered by the speed. It really isn't that slow. If it wasn't for the amarr assault I wouldn't be able to equip 3 complex dmg mods and a prototype swarm launcher with armor mods. 60 x 1.25 = 75 An extender is 78 with the skill maxed You've been lied to bro, you're higher HP doesn't exist. But Kudo's to you for still doing well despite using the worst assault in the game. No I'm talking about the skill that increases your base HP. My base HP is 216 for both shield and armor. 75 is the difference in HP thanks to the skills It starts at a 60 point difference and turns into 75. 78 is what an extender offers. like I said, your health isn't higher at all.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 437	Posted - 2013.06.27 05:06:00 - [28] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: 75 is the difference in HP thanks to the skills It starts at a 60 point difference and turns into 75. 78 is what an extender offers. like I said, your health isn't higher at all. Well I can fit shield extenders + dmg mods + armor mods (Plate and reppers) + adv nanohive + M1 locus so I think they're fine. If they were to receive a buff all I would want is a little extra speed (Which I can get with a kincat if I really wanted to)
Xender17 Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 188	Posted - 2013.06.27 05:10:00 - [29] - Quote What ever your nerfing leave my Amarr Logi out of it.
Xender17 Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 188	Posted - 2013.06.27 05:11:00 - [30] - Quote Oh and your idea about 2 sidearms slots... Would pretty much make it a requirement that logis get a respect.



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