DUST Search - No Matchmaking In War

ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:

hooc roht wrote:

ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:

omg.. what is with all the its not real war rubbish pouring into this forum.

where did i say this was like real war. we are playing a fictional war game based in the future where anything is possible. your missing the principle of what dust/eve is all about.

being unpredictable is one of the things that makes the game different that any other, the eve universe is yours for the taking and losing. if i'm matchmade against a team of equal players then there is no unpredictability and they might aswel just roll a dice and give the win to whoever won and save us the time of playing the game

huh?

Protos vs noobs = 99% chance protos will win

Protos vs protos = 50-50 chance either side will win

noobs vs noobs = 50-50 chance either side will win

boobs vs boobs = come on girls no need to fight there is plenty of me to go around.

It seems to me that matchmaking would make the outcomes of battles less predictable.

a milita sniper can take out a 150k isk proto suit fit
a militia swarm launcher can take out a lav with 3 passengers in it
a 10mil sp player could have no skills to unlock any proto gear
a player with 2-3 mil sp could be in proto gear

Protos vs noobs = 100% chance players could be wearing anything, doing anything and either side could win

Protos vs protos = 100% chance players could be wearing anything, doing anything and either side could win

noobs vs noobs = 100% chance players could be wearing anything, doing anything and either side could win

now thats unpredictability.

isk reward is based on isk lost by the enemy
sp reward is based on time and contribution to the fight

proto stomping doesn't change any of those rewards. in fact it benefits the noobs who loose next to nothing but get better kills. the proto team only has to die a handfull of times compared to the hundreds of times a noob can die to loose masses of isk even if they win the battle

if you cant beat them then you make them suffer in other ways i.e by hitting their wallet. no one likes it when their proto suit/ tank is destroyed by someone using militia gear. keep that in mind when militia stomping their wallets

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ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 55	Posted - 2013.06.24 21:52:00 - [1] - Quote no matchmaking in war... get over it and adapt.. if your getting proto stomped then change your tactics.i just had a great fight where we were getting proto stomped. i didnt sit about and moan or hide. i switched to AT and took them out in their vehicles. total loss to this 1 full proto squad was 14 deaths. they lost more isk in 1 suit than i lost the entire fight and thats not inc the price of the vehicles they lost. we are not playing an equal opportunity game here. its war plain and simple
N1ck Comeau Pro Hic Immortalis 482	Posted - 2013.06.24 21:54:00 - [2] - Quote People who assign battles wouldn't put you against opponents that would slaughter your men. Unless it has some advantages in the long run.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3986	Posted - 2013.06.24 21:55:00 - [3] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: we are not playing an equal opportunity game here. its war plain and simple Actually, in most cases, it's not war. It is High Security Empire space, and if you decide to act like a ****, Concord will make your day less enjoyable. In theory at least. Not getting into this debate, have fun though.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 20	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:09:00 - [4] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: People who assign battles wouldn't put you against opponents that would slaughter your men. Unless it has some advantages in the long run. I agree but that requires competent commanders. This is makes sense to you and me but he doesn't understand how pub-stomping is bad for the game.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 20	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:11:00 - [5] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: no matchmaking in war... get over it and adapt.. if your getting proto stomped then change your tactics.i just had a great fight where we were getting proto stomped. i didnt sit about and moan or hide. i switched to AT and took them out in their vehicles. total loss to this 1 full proto squad was 14 deaths. they lost more isk in 1 suit than i lost the entire fight and thats not inc the price of the vehicles they lost. we are not playing an equal opportunity game here. its war plain and simple But it's not war go to Syria then you can experience war or you can stay where you are and play a game and not be in war.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 55	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:11:00 - [6] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: People who assign battles wouldn't put you against opponents that would slaughter your men. Unless it has some advantages in the long run. "sorry enemy, my forces are too week to fight you today, come back tommorow" no one can truely know what the enemy will do or what they will bring to the fight even in real life. its always a gamble in war.the unpredictability of every battle is what makes this game great. matchmaking will just ruin it especially as it will limit player pools for each fight and leave people playing even more of the same people over and over again.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 55	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:13:00 - [7] - Quote Colonel Killar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: no matchmaking in war... get over it and adapt.. if your getting proto stomped then change your tactics.i just had a great fight where we were getting proto stomped. i didnt sit about and moan or hide. i switched to AT and took them out in their vehicles. total loss to this 1 full proto squad was 14 deaths. they lost more isk in 1 suit than i lost the entire fight and thats not inc the price of the vehicles they lost. we are not playing an equal opportunity game here. its war plain and simple But it's not war go to Syria then you can experience war or you can stay where you are and play a game and not be in war. people with guns, running around killing each other, on a battlefield, some do it for fun, some do it for money, some do it because they are roleplaying fueds between factions. how is this not war
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 20	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:14:00 - [8] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: no matchmaking in war... get over it and adapt.. if your getting proto stomped then change your tactics.i just had a great fight where we were getting proto stomped. i didnt sit about and moan or hide. i switched to AT and took them out in their vehicles. total loss to this 1 full proto squad was 14 deaths. they lost more isk in 1 suit than i lost the entire fight and thats not inc the price of the vehicles they lost. we are not playing an equal opportunity game here. its war plain and simple But it's not war go to Syria then you can experience war or you can stay where you are and play a game and not be in war. people with guns, running around killing each other, on a battlefield, some do it for fun, some do it for money, some do it because they are roleplaying fueds between factions. how is this not war Because your holding a videogame controller and not a M-16
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3986	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:15:00 - [9] - Quote Colonel Killar wrote: Because your holding a videogame controller and not a M-16 Ahhh, so that explains drone strikes
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 77	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:19:00 - [10] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: no matchmaking in war... get over it and adapt.. if your getting proto stomped then change your tactics.i just had a great fight where we were getting proto stomped. i didnt sit about and moan or hide. i switched to AT and took them out in their vehicles. total loss to this 1 full proto squad was 14 deaths. they lost more isk in 1 suit than i lost the entire fight and thats not inc the price of the vehicles they lost. we are not playing an equal opportunity game here. its war plain and simple No evaporating bullets in war No trucks that blow up when they brake down in war No limit to the number for people on a battle field in war No red line that if you cross over it for 16 seconds you die in war No magical skill that give you more health and makes your weapons cause more damage in war. No magical weapons that that are identical to less powerful weapons yet for some weird reason require more SP to use in war. No SP in war. Should i go on? In war a wet behind the ears just out of basic training soldier will kill more enemies then any 60 year old general does.

Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 20	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:19:00 - [11] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: Because your holding a videogame controller and not a M-16 Ahhh, so that explains drone strikes Ok you have a point that drones are controlled by remote operators but I mean that pubmatches are something are not actually meaningful
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 55	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:27:00 - [12] - Quote Colonel Killar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: no matchmaking in war... get over it and adapt.. if your getting proto stomped then change your tactics.i just had a great fight where we were getting proto stomped. i didnt sit about and moan or hide. i switched to AT and took them out in their vehicles. total loss to this 1 full proto squad was 14 deaths. they lost more isk in 1 suit than i lost the entire fight and thats not inc the price of the vehicles they lost. we are not playing an equal opportunity game here. its war plain and simple But it's not war go to Syria then you can experience war or you can stay where you are and play a game and not be in war. people with guns, running around killing each other, on a battlefield, some do it for fun, some do it for money, some do it because they are roleplaying fueds between factions. how is this not war Because your holding a videogame controller and not a M-16 "? am i posting on the right website here" Is this not the website for people who play a war game called DUST 514 on a computer where people playing roleplaying mercenaries fight wars on behalf of fictional corporations/ races/ factions/ the highest bidder or just for honor.
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 80	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:28:00 - [13] - Quote New recruit "Oh wow that AR does much more damage and shoots farther then my AR. I will use that" Dust winter warrior "Sorry son this is war. In war you have to use that same crappy weapon in 100s of battles before you have the skills to use a better weapon" New recruit "how will using a worse weapon make me better at using a different better weapon" Dust winter warrior "That is the magic of war."
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2707	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:31:00 - [14] - Quote Is thread for real? Pubs are wars so adapt or die? How do you adapt to someone using the same gear as you but 2 tiers higher and with more experience on how to best use it? OP be livin' in a fantasy world - wish I could join him - but I'd rather not lose the IQ.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 21	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:34:00 - [15] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: no matchmaking in war... get over it and adapt.. if your getting proto stomped then change your tactics.i just had a great fight where we were getting proto stomped. i didnt sit about and moan or hide. i switched to AT and took them out in their vehicles. total loss to this 1 full proto squad was 14 deaths. they lost more isk in 1 suit than i lost the entire fight and thats not inc the price of the vehicles they lost. we are not playing an equal opportunity game here. its war plain and simple But it's not war go to Syria then you can experience war or you can stay where you are and play a game and not be in war. people with guns, running around killing each other, on a battlefield, some do it for fun, some do it for money, some do it because they are roleplaying fueds between factions. how is this not war Because your holding a videogame controller and not a M-16 "? am i posting on the right website here" Is this not the website for people who play a war game called DUST 514 on a computer where people roleplaying mercenaries fight wars on behalf of fictional corporations/ races/ factions/ the highest bidder or just for honor. Not really, this is a website for people who want to QQ or troll (some of us also might actually talk about intelligent things too) the mercenaries fighting for the various reasons is a long standing idea in RPG games FPS players don't nessecarily understand that concept to them it's look at stats, use OP weapons, pub-stomp, and talk about their 1337ness
DeadlyAztec11 Max-Pain-inc 549	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:35:00 - [16] - Quote Why are you using the argument that this is war? This is a video game, there are going to be balancing features. Might as well throw out the red line, invisibility cloak while spawning and magically being able to put your vehicle back in your inventory. This is a bad argument, just like saying that the technology in Dust is unrealistic.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 21	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:35:00 - [17] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Is thread for real? Pubs are wars so adapt or die? How do you adapt to someone using the same gear as you but 2 tiers higher and with more experience on how to best use it? OP be livin' in a fantasy world - wish I could join him - but I'd rather not lose the IQ. I'm feeling like I'm losing the IQ points just talking to him
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3986	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:36:00 - [18] - Quote hooc roht wrote: New recruit "Oh wow that AR does much more damage and shoots farther then my AR. I will use that" Dust winter warrior "Sorry son this is war. In war you have to use that same crappy weapon in 100s of battles before you have the skills to use a better weapon" New recruit "how will using a worse weapon make me better at using a different better weapon" Dust winter warrior "That is the magic of war."
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 773	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:42:00 - [19] - Quote Make everything more expensive; capitalise on the 'cost of war'. We all know how much an arms race costs for us; see WWI and WWII. Not to mention the Cold War, and even now, with the war in the Middle East. Now imagine these expenses multiplied across a whole universe. Lets say, New Eden. We're mercenaries in perpetual war, and where we go should be determined by where the ISK is and how much ISK we already have. Currently the concept of matchmaking has been favoured because of the 'SP gap between new and old players'. What about the ISK gap? Hmm? Oh wait, no one gives a damn because gear is so cheap (infantry gear. I respect vehicle users and pity their wallets) no one gives it a second thought except in the first few weeks of gameplay whilst you build up your wallet to a sustainable level. If you wish to field prototype gear, even advanced gear, around the clock, public matches should be unsustainable. That's the cost of perpetual war. Separating players, based on SP is, and I agree with the OP here, folly. But limiting gear usage in certain matches because the profit doesn't even come close to the projected expense, that seems much more... war-like.
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 81	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:42:00 - [20] - Quote In before: "Who the **** cares about war. Matchmaking will stop hooc from bitching about it like he has for the past 2 months."

ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 56	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:43:00 - [21] - Quote omg.. what is with all the its not real war rubbish pouring into this forum. where did i say this was like real war. we are playing a fictional war game based in the future where anything is possible. your missing the principle of what dust/eve is all about. being unpredictable is one of the things that makes the game different that any other, the eve universe is yours for the taking and losing. if i'm matchmade against a team of equal players then there is no unpredictability and they might aswel just roll a dice and give the win to whoever won and save us the time of playing the game
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3987	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:45:00 - [22] - Quote While we're on the topic of real war, since I'm curious. What would happen if a soldier decided that as the rest of his unit was deploying into the combat zone, that he was just gonna sit back at base and play some tetris in the sand?
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 81	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:47:00 - [23] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: omg.. what is with all the its not real war rubbish pouring into this forum. where did i say this was like real war. we are playing a fictional war game based in the future where anything is possible. your missing the principle of what dust/eve is all about. being unpredictable is one of the things that makes the game different that any other, the eve universe is yours for the taking and losing. if i'm matchmade against a team of equal players then there is no unpredictability and they might aswel just roll a dice and give the win to whoever won and save us the time of playing the game huh? Protos vs noobs = 99% chance noobs will win Protos vs protos = 50-50 chance either side will win noobs vs noobs = 50-50 chance either side will win boobs vs boobs = come on girls no need to fight there is plenty of me to go around. It seems to me that matchmaking would make the outcomes of battles less predictable.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3989	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:50:00 - [24] - Quote hooc roht wrote: boobs vs boobs = come on girls no need to fight there is plenty of me to go around But if they fight they'll get all sweaty and perky and bounce around a lot, and the one who wins will get all aggressive and dominant towards the loser, and she'll be more submissive, and I feel like this is going somewhere Gallentean so I'll leave it at that.
Avallo Kantor DUST University Ivy League 101	Posted - 2013.06.24 22:58:00 - [25] - Quote To be honest OP, it's a rather rubbish argument to make, and there are several better arguments to make for not using matchmaking during the early stages for the game. (They have already said they are working on matchmaking) I would argue that the reason no matchmaking was made in the beginning was that CCP was rather expecting a small player count, especially during beta, and decided that it would be easiest to not have matchmaking so that even with a small player base, they would have a large pool of effective players to draw upon for a match. Consider this: If you have a player base of 1000 players, and there is no matchmaking, then at any point Player A can be matched with 999 other potential players to form one match, allowing for very short waiting times between selecting a match and getting into it. Now if you have let's say X tiers of matchmaking, then Player A can only have 1000 / X potential players to form a match in his bracket, assuming every Tier has the exact same number of players. (which it won't.) Namely, matchmaking only causes longer queues. However if you have a large enough player base this time differential is nearly nothing, for example, if you only need say 500 players in a bracket to ensure that there will always be a near zero wait time, then match making so that no "bracket" is under 500 players would negate any slow down that would occur. Obviously these values would be much larger, and CCP might have decided to not initially include matchmaking for that reason. The other reason matchmaking might not have been included (and this reason is stated to have been true) is that the metric by which you decide a match can be very tricky, especially when you can rapidly equip different gear. Do you base it by overall SP? If so then you'll still have players with higher skill stomping low skill, but long time players. Do you base it by total WP? Same problem as above. Do you base it by WP / Match or K/DR? If so, then you'll have the scenario where high skill players may be fighting other high skill players... in better gear. And then there's the troubling prospect (that happens in other games) where a player "nukes" their own score so that they can be matched against players who clearly are not at their level. Assuming the main reason of matchmaking is to avoid "stomping" of any variety, then you have to be careful to not let it be metagamed (because players WILL do this) so that you still have scenarios where people can Stomp others. Skill can be a somewhat difficult thing to measure, and that's why in even other FPS games no matter how good the matchmaking you still have complete blow out matches.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 56	Posted - 2013.06.24 23:02:00 - [26] - Quote hooc roht wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: omg.. what is with all the its not real war rubbish pouring into this forum. where did i say this was like real war. we are playing a fictional war game based in the future where anything is possible. your missing the principle of what dust/eve is all about. being unpredictable is one of the things that makes the game different that any other, the eve universe is yours for the taking and losing. if i'm matchmade against a team of equal players then there is no unpredictability and they might aswel just roll a dice and give the win to whoever won and save us the time of playing the game huh? Protos vs noobs = 99% chance protos will win Protos vs protos = 50-50 chance either side will win noobs vs noobs = 50-50 chance either side will win boobs vs boobs = come on girls no need to fight there is plenty of me to go around. It seems to me that matchmaking would make the outcomes of battles less predictable. a milita sniper can take out a 150k isk proto suit fit a militia swarm launcher can take out a lav with 3 passengers in it a 10mil sp player could have no skills to unlock any proto gear a player with 2-3 mil sp could be in proto gear Protos vs noobs = 100% chance players could be wearing anything, doing anything and either side could win Protos vs protos = 100% chance players could be wearing anything, doing anything and either side could win noobs vs noobs = 100% chance players could be wearing anything, doing anything and either side could win now thats unpredictability. isk reward is based on isk lost by the enemy sp reward is based on time and contribution to the fight proto stomping doesn't change any of those rewards. in fact it benefits the noobs who loose next to nothing but get better kills. the proto team only has to die a handfull of times compared to the hundreds of times a noob can die to loose masses of isk even if they win the battle
Onesimus Tarsus Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 521	Posted - 2013.06.24 23:09:00 - [27] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: no matchmaking in war... get over it and adapt.. if your getting proto stomped then change your tactics.i just had a great fight where we were getting proto stomped. i didnt sit about and moan or hide. i switched to AT and took them out in their vehicles. total loss to this 1 full proto squad was 14 deaths. they lost more isk in 1 suit than i lost the entire fight and thats not inc the price of the vehicles they lost. we are not playing an equal opportunity game here. its war plain and simple But it's not war go to Syria then you can experience war or you can stay where you are and play a game and not be in war. people with guns, running around killing each other, on a battlefield, some do it for fun, some do it for money, some do it because they are roleplaying fueds between factions. how is this not war Because your holding a videogame controller and not a M-16 "? am i posting on the right website here" Is this not the website for people who play a war game called DUST 514 on a computer where people roleplaying mercenaries fight wars on behalf of fictional corporations/ races/ factions/ the highest bidder or just for honor. Not as much as they used to.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 764	Posted - 2013.06.24 23:12:00 - [28] - Quote There are many ways in which this is a game... and not as unfun as a war. I have an idea... how about we make this a game... and we figure out how to keep new players from quitting -- so they can play for a while, become good, and compete with everyone. Maybe then, we'll have a growing player base. Oh, never mind, troll thread is troll.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2707	Posted - 2013.06.24 23:15:00 - [29] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: hooc roht wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: omg.. what is with all the its not real war rubbish pouring into this forum. where did i say this was like real war. we are playing a fictional war game based in the future where anything is possible. your missing the principle of what dust/eve is all about. being unpredictable is one of the things that makes the game different that any other, the eve universe is yours for the taking and losing. if i'm matchmade against a team of equal players then there is no unpredictability and they might aswel just roll a dice and give the win to whoever won and save us the time of playing the game huh? Protos vs noobs = 99% chance protos will win Protos vs protos = 50-50 chance either side will win noobs vs noobs = 50-50 chance either side will win boobs vs boobs = come on girls no need to fight there is plenty of me to go around. It seems to me that matchmaking would make the outcomes of battles less predictable. a milita sniper can take out a 150k isk proto suit fit a militia swarm launcher can take out a lav with 3 passengers in it a 10mil sp player could have no skills to unlock any proto gear a player with 2-3 mil sp could be in proto gear Protos vs noobs = 100% chance players could be wearing anything, doing anything and either side could win Protos vs protos = 100% chance players could be wearing anything, doing anything and either side could win noobs vs noobs = 100% chance players could be wearing anything, doing anything and either side could win now thats unpredictability. isk reward is based on isk lost by the enemy sp reward is based on time and contribution to the fight proto stomping doesn't change any of those rewards. in fact it benefits the noobs who loose next to nothing but get better kills. the proto team only has to die a handfull of times compared to the hundreds of times a noob can die to loose masses of isk even if they win the battle if you cant beat them then you make them suffer in other ways i.e by hitting their wallet. no one likes it when their proto suit/ tank is destroyed by someone using militia gear. keep that in mind when militia stomping their wallets I'm just going to say your both wrong and borderline stoopid. MLT swarms killing a LAV with 3 ppl in it - lolol - not my LAV it doesn't ;)
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 62	Posted - 2013.06.24 23:18:00 - [30] - Quote This is the dumbest thread I've seen in a long time, even on this forum, and that's saying a lot.



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