DUST Search - Announcement:Dev Blog: Developing Game Mode Variations

Dao Ferret wrote:

Great Dev Blog, and enjoyed the read, but it only talked about things in the past tense.

I'm assuming from the lack of "Expect this great new map/feature in Uprising 1.2/1.3" nothing the Level Design team is currently working on is expected for 1.2 or 1.3, but is there any chance you could at least provide a little insight into things we can expect Soon (no Gäó)?

Something like "now that we've reworked the existing maps into our new socket system, creating new maps is easier and we expect to have something new for you all to play with, not in the next release, but soon after that" or "we hear you are crying for a new mode, well we have a surprise for you we don't want to ruin, but expect to see something this summer".

Let me rephrase, I really enjoyed the read, and appreciate the time and effort that went into it, but when the community is holding its breath waiting for Uprising 1.2, and discussing the game's future with ... shall we call them "strong" feelings?, a DevBlog that doesn't at least mention that is an automatic let down versus something revealing what we can expect to make things better.

On the other hand, it IS appreciated that CCP listens to feedback from the community (which really seems to be the point of this DevBlog more than anything else), but I doubt that most of the community will see it that way.

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CCP Frame C C P C C P Alliance 1131	Posted - 2013.06.21 15:28:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Tigris, CCP Stiffneck and CCP LogicLoop just published their brand new DUST 514 level design dev blog - Developing Game Mode Variations! Feel free to use this thread for your feedback regarding this dev blog! We hope you enjoyed the read.

Vethosis Silver Talon Corporation 371	Posted - 2013.06.21 15:37:00 - [2] - Quote FIRST
Dao Ferret BetaMax. CRONOS. 78	Posted - 2013.06.21 15:43:00 - [3] - Quote Great Dev Blog, and enjoyed the read, but it only talked about things in the past tense. I'm assuming from the lack of "Expect this great new map/feature in Uprising 1.2/1.3" nothing the Level Design team is currently working on is expected for 1.2 or 1.3, but is there any chance you could at least provide a little insight into things we can expect Soon (no Gäó)? Something like "now that we've reworked the existing maps into our new socket system, creating new maps is easier and we expect to have something new for you all to play with, not in the next release, but soon after that" or "we hear you are crying for a new mode, well we have a surprise for you we don't want to ruin, but expect to see something this summer". Let me rephrase, I really enjoyed the read, and appreciate the time and effort that went into it, but when the community is holding its breath waiting for Uprising 1.2, and discussing the game's future with ... shall we call them "strong" feelings?, a DevBlog that doesn't at least mention that is an automatic let down versus something revealing what we can expect to make things better. On the other hand, it IS appreciated that CCP listens to feedback from the community (which is really seems to be the point of this DevBlog more than anything else), but I doubt that most of the community will see it that way.
Evil-Stuffed-Animal Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 41	Posted - 2013.06.21 15:51:00 - [4] - Quote create a map with more structures. a map with trenches. a map where both sides could dig in but would have to come out into the open to capture objectives.
HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2867	Posted - 2013.06.21 15:52:00 - [5] - Quote "- making a battlefield that takes up multiple sections of a planet instead of only one." As beautiful as this feature may be? Is this what cause so much lag, and limits the amount of players per match? I would gladly give up being able to see anything besides the map we play on for better frame rate and more mercs per battle. We don't use those parts of the map so why use up that memory? Always great to know your listening, oh a problem just remove it, no sense in fixing what we have. "So what did we do? ItGÇÖs simple: We immediately removed the map from the lineup. The players had spoken, and we listened."
Vitoka79 from SVK ZionTCD 43	Posted - 2013.06.21 16:04:00 - [6] - Quote I liked Skirmish 1.0 ,bring it back for PC.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 533	Posted - 2013.06.21 16:08:00 - [7] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: "- making a battlefield that takes up multiple sections of a planet instead of only one." As beautiful as this feature may be? Is this what cause so much lag, and limits the amount of players per match? I would gladly give up being able to see anything besides the map we play on for better frame rate and more mercs per battle. We don't use those parts of the map so why use up that memory? I would guess that that isn't that much memory being used for those map assets. The lighting/shading/textures etc are all probably an order of magnitude less detailed. I even drone my LAV into one of the nearest neighboring sockets in the red line a few times to check it out before dieing and they really are nothing when you look at them up close.
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 185	Posted - 2013.06.21 16:11:00 - [8] - Quote Vitoka79 from SVK wrote: I liked Skirmish 1.0 ,bring it back for PC. Or as a means to assault PI installations or anything, really. Making it unique and exclusive to a certain game mode (FW/PC/SOV?) would give it a nice niche.
Dao Ferret BetaMax. CRONOS. 80	Posted - 2013.06.21 16:15:00 - [9] - Quote And fit the existing mechanic of fending off the invading MCC/team (with, essentially, built in fall-back positions).
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 533	Posted - 2013.06.21 16:21:00 - [10] - Quote In terms of game-modes that we are missing there isn't much out there that are forcing different roles for whole teams' offense and defense. Domination kind of does, this, but a kind of 'bombardment' game would be interesting... Defender's objective- Hold a station until reinforcements arrive (10 minutes) Attacker's objective- infiltrate a station planting viruses in all objectives, leading to a meltdown of the entire system infrastructure. All objectives are initially owned by the defender who is 'dug in' letting defenders intially spawn at the front line and deploy equipment assets quickly to defend against the initial wave of attackers. Attackers then must choose how they will strategically assault the base, through methodically wearing down the defenders?, stripping away defensive assets?, or just a mad chaotic, and stealthy rush from all sides?

Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1713	Posted - 2013.06.21 16:26:00 - [11] - Quote I see that caldari heavy!
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 419	Posted - 2013.06.21 16:30:00 - [12] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I see that caldari heavy! Good catch, could just be a dev test suit though.
Liner ReXiandra Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 46	Posted - 2013.06.21 17:19:00 - [13] - Quote Dao Ferret wrote: Great Dev Blog, ...it only talked about things in the past tense. ... ...but when the community is holding its breath waiting for Uprising 1.2, and discussing the game's future with ... shall we call them "strong" feelings?, a DevBlog that doesn't at least mention that is an automatic let down versus something revealing what we can expect to make things better. This. Also, since you keep mentioning that you listen to the player base comments, I'd like to echo others before me: Bring back Skirmish 1.0 please.
Aeon Amadi Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1627	Posted - 2013.06.21 17:29:00 - [14] - Quote Soooooo whats the ETA on bringing Skirmish 1.0 back? Way more dynamic than an even fight with even conditions. Also, what happened to the Bunker style large turrets?
Django Quik R.I.f.t 707	Posted - 2013.06.21 17:41:00 - [15] - Quote I was expecting/hoping to see something here about new game modes but I am disappoint. While LogicLoop is one of my favourite devs and I think the level design teams do a great job, we really need to hear some good news on coming game modes. On another note - please please please make the red-line the same for both teams. Those long-distance weapons you talk about are fine but when they are so far back that it's nigh on impossible to kill them but they can still shoot you across the map, there's no way to get to them: that's wrong.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 613	Posted - 2013.06.21 17:48:00 - [16] - Quote The community never wanted you to take out Skirmish 1.0. We merely wanted the first two objectives to have more health, so that it would require more effort to take them, since a tank could basically instakill them. I also have no idea what's so bad about slightly unbalanced matches? There's not really a problem with favoring either the defender or attacker very slightly. In MAG the defenders had their bunkerlines among other things which favored them, but it was never a problem that it was like this. Please for the sake of this game, bring back Skirmish 1.0 or similar gamemodes asap. Another thing is about these "strategies to defeat their rivals and overtake the objectives" in Skirmish. It's not really hard to figure out the only viable strategy is to spam as many instaspawn Drop Uplinks as possible and zerg the objectives. Can you please take a look at this thread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=881177#post881177 The Supply Depots and CRUs has very little value right now, and they should in my opinion hold a lot more value. The linked thread touches on this.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 119	Posted - 2013.06.21 17:49:00 - [17] - Quote I'm worried. I really don't remember the days when the community asked for the removal of Skirmish 1.0. On the contrary I remember many people asking for the return of Skirmish 1.0 ever since it's been removed. I think my memory is getting worse. ... No spite intended. I'm sure you had your reasons to remove Skirmish 1.0, but I don't think that player feedback was one of them. Here's a nice topic for the next devblog: Why do you think Skirmish 1.0 was beyond fixing? I'm very sure you've planned for Skirmish 1.0 to be part of Dust for a long time so I really wonder why you decided to undo all work on that feature instead of applying more (admittedly much needed) polish to the map design.
E4rthw0rm Jim WARRIORS 1NC 0	Posted - 2013.06.21 17:55:00 - [18] - Quote Everyone keeps talking about changes to the existing PvP game modes. Why can't we have a PvE game mode? For example: Bring back the "unbalanced" Skirmish 1.0, and make it an "Invasion" or "Defense" game mode, depending on what side the AI is on. Use the newly introduced Security Status rating to determine the difficulty the players will be facing: AI in prototype gear, increased AI clone numbers, no respawn timer for AI, etc,... Maybe even give them all uber CONCORD or Jove loadouts. Lets face it, there is nothing after the Battle Academy for people under 5 mill SP. A PvE game mode would enable people to level up without having to face a team full of murder taxis, or redline snipers.
Asirius Medaius Planetary Response Organization 0	Posted - 2013.06.21 17:56:00 - [19] - Quote Dao Ferret wrote: Great Dev Blog, and enjoyed the read, but it only talked about things in the past tense. I'm assuming from the lack of "Expect this great new map/feature in Uprising 1.2/1.3" nothing the Level Design team is currently working on is expected for 1.2 or 1.3, but is there any chance you could at least provide a little insight into things we can expect Soon (no Gäó)? Something like "now that we've reworked the existing maps into our new socket system, creating new maps is easier and we expect to have something new for you all to play with, not in the next release, but soon after that" or "we hear you are crying for a new mode, well we have a surprise for you we don't want to ruin, but expect to see something this summer". Let me rephrase, I really enjoyed the read, and appreciate the time and effort that went into it, but when the community is holding its breath waiting for Uprising 1.2, and discussing the game's future with ... shall we call them "strong" feelings?, a DevBlog that doesn't at least mention that is an automatic let down versus something revealing what we can expect to make things better. On the other hand, it IS appreciated that CCP listens to feedback from the community (which really seems to be the point of this DevBlog more than anything else), but I doubt that most of the community will see it that way. This person practically said almost everything I would have liked to say (both about the Devblog and the future of Dust 514), especially with this quote: Dao Ferret wrote: ..when the community is holding its breath waiting for Uprising 1.2, and discussing the game's future with ... shall we call them "strong" feelings? That said, and many other peoples' and websites' opinions about the future of Dust 514, I think that a lot more information must come into play such as development, rather than feedback on level-making, which is so low in priority compared to other game mechanics for the success of this game (and possibly EVE online's). If people aren't seeing results or reasons to play, they are just going to keep AFK'ing in MCCs to just get the skillpoints for the next build (assuming that they don't just pack up their "bags" and leave this game in the near future, or worse, now). Honestly, as a Dust 514 member, I love this universe of EVE, but looking at the history of EVE online and the history of Dust 514 in equal respect, I don't see Dust taking the right courses of action that made EVE online the unique and elegant game it is. Just remember, as more time progresses, you have to look at the derivative of your work in a period of time and compare it to other game companies (ex: Bungie; making Destiny for release of PS4, etc.) and ask if the community is really going to stay here or not. Without the community and all the friends people make in Dust 514, there is nothing else holding your "core" audience here, unless they like facing the same few hundred people or so.
axis alpha Red Star. EoN. 37	Posted - 2013.06.21 18:03:00 - [20] - Quote That first screen shot?.... is that a new ship or something????

Planetside2 OnPS4 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.06.21 18:28:00 - [21] - Quote Great stuff........NOT. WOW im impressed.........NOT Cmon ccp are you even listening to us? Seems like praetorian and jian are making all the decisions regardless of what the populus wants. Remember the fanfest statement "Yeas Skirmish 1.0 is coming back"!!! CCP jian said it 6 weeks ago, like it was just a matter of pushing the button. "its still there we just have it deactivated". Wow ccp fail again, and how many man hrs did it take you to produce this page of irrelevancy?
Terry Webber Turalyon Plus 125	Posted - 2013.06.21 18:38:00 - [22] - Quote The Dev Blog was a nice behind-the-scenes look, but as with some of the others, I expected new game modes. But I will still be waiting patiently for that day.
Asirius Medaius Planetary Response Organization 0	Posted - 2013.06.21 18:47:00 - [23] - Quote axis alpha wrote: That first screen shot?.... is that a new ship or something???? Not sure if sarcastic/trolling, but no, it isn't a new ship. It's just a view of right behind the thrusters of the Caldari Dropship. If it was a picture of a new ship, or any new material for that matter, that is coming in the next few weeks, I would believe the responses in here would be much "lighter" than we are observing now.
InsidiousN KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 92	Posted - 2013.06.21 19:22:00 - [24] - Quote I've read this entire Dev Blog, can someone please tell me what actual information it contains?
Asirius Medaius Planetary Response Organization 0	Posted - 2013.06.21 20:11:00 - [25] - Quote InsidiousN wrote: I've read this entire Dev Blog, can someone please tell me what actual information it contains? Not entirely sure, but this information about level design sounds pretty similar to a devblog that was released not even a month ago: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/05/outposts-level-design/ It seems as if these devblogs are being used less and less for intent of giving information about future updates, and more about creating notoriety about CCP's "work" and "challenges" they face during the "game development". (And yes, the massive usage of quotation marks were warranted; most of the work that goes into this game seems implied/skeptic)
Nightbird Aeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 185	Posted - 2013.06.21 20:15:00 - [26] - Quote "So What?" I work in Market Research, and whenever I present to clients, every slide I show has a "so what". In other words, what are the implications of this data we're looking at. I appreciate the communication, I really do. But... This blog is in the past tense, showing "how what we currently have was created". So what? Currently there are two game modes with minor variations. Domination is basically Skirmish with one NULL cannon, and the difference between OMS and regular is laughable. The community want more, and short of saying "we listen to feedback", this blog is a bunch of words on a page, and no "so what" in sight. The community is eager to play new game modes, and are more than willing to help design and plan them. I know that EVE is 10 years old and people have been nostalgically looking back, but on these forums and in this place, we're hoping for a litte bit more looking forward. -Nightbird
sammus420 Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 147	Posted - 2013.06.21 22:39:00 - [27] - Quote I love how they've listened to the concerns of their playerbase yet done absolutely nothing about redline sniping (Which we've been asking to have removed since before chromosome) and instead, they've made it easier (sniping out of the MCC). They also continue to refuse to re-release skirmish 1.0, despite saying they will, and despite a fair amount of the player base asking for it. They're listening to us, they claim. But our requests continue to fall upon deaf ears.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 154	Posted - 2013.06.21 23:25:00 - [28] - Quote Over the past year and a bit CCP has continued to listen to us, unfortunately listening to us all the time seems to have left CCP with a backlog of requests and a limited capacity to deal with them all at once. I would like Dust to succeed and in the spirit of said goal I would propose that there be a better way for us to be able to vote importance of "things CCP is looking into" up or down on the priority list. We have a voice, but need a better way to communicate to you the developer what is and is not important without needlessly reposting the same topics that we have already posted back in Closed Beta for development. The dev blog has made this aparent, while it shows us where we have been, it doesn't show what's to come and if there is or is not a priority being placed on level design or new game mode designs. We are hungry for new content and hope you can provide us with this but feel that it is a slow process. Help us help you make this better by introducing a feature to the forums that will help us make the priority one tasks your priority one task as well.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2791	Posted - 2013.06.21 23:52:00 - [29] - Quote Skirmish 1.0 is my favorite game mode. I miss it already.
Tek465 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2013.06.22 00:06:00 - [30] - Quote I was really disappointed in the devblog. Out of all the potential that Dust could be, you dial it back so much because of feedback that you've ended up with mediocre maps. - The size of the battlefield. (The current level layouts of the DUST 514 battlegrounds use small sections of vast planetary landscapes.) Why? These are battles to control planets. They should be large scaled. A planet is HUGE you should feel isolation if you decide to walk. - Symmetry in games, Symmetry is BORING!!! It's hard for me to describe, but it feels a lot like chess. The games just become all too familiar. Where's the surprise element. The sabotage, recon, convoy or even flat out boring milk run missions. - "We can position objectives, turrets, and supply depots across the battlefield." Current turret positioning has been the worst feature I've seen in the game. They are there, but strategically useless. They are often placed in depressions, behind walls or just the wrong type for the battlefield. They are not an asset to any team. It's an imposing weapon, it should make an enemy think twice. But right now they just make the maps look and feel cheap, thrown together. No one should squander a weapon like that. There's no reason why this game shouldn't have a dozen game types and different scenarios. Sure some might not work, but it should be an evolving process. Currently the game feels like its de-volving into every other shooter out there. It's time to start pushing boundaries stop listening to feedback and make Dust unique.



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