DUST Search - Debate: SP Cap (for or against)

All Channels

General Discussions

Debate: SP Cap (for or against)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1891	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:12:00 - [31] - Quote You want people to log on more? Don't have a mechanic that tells them to stop playing at a given time.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3589	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:15:00 - [32] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: You want people to log on more? Don't have a mechanic that tells them to stop playing at a given time. I agree 100% passive SP for everyone (+50% for you AUR hounds), plus add things to the game that actually have meaning. Aka, give us the MMO part of this MMOFPS
xLTShinySidesx UNOBTANIUM INC General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:15:00 - [33] - Quote Sp cap is fine. I do like the idea of an isk boost after the cap is reached though, sounds like a good incentive to not only reach the cap but to keep playing after the cap as well. Right now I switch to an alt after cap but if there were benefits for staying after cap, I would.
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 92	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:22:00 - [34] - Quote There is only one way to reduce the gap between veterans and new players, and it is an exponentially decreasing SP gain. Exponentially decreasing graph Consider the y-axis SP and the x-axis time Unfortunately this would alienate players when they reach that high level of SP.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1891	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:22:00 - [35] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: You want people to log on more? Don't have a mechanic that tells them to stop playing at a given time. I agree 100% passive SP for everyone (+50% for you AUR hounds), plus add things to the game that actually have meaning. Aka, give us the MMO part of this MMOFPS That's fine and dandy in theory. But in practice that's even worse.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 227	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:24:00 - [36] - Quote I don't really care one way or the other since I never hit cap anyway.
Mregomies The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 4	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:24:00 - [37] - Quote Save the cap. I'm about to hit 6mil SP without any boosters and finally I will survive againts vets. Nowdays I manage to collect approx 1000-2000 WP/battle as a logi. My freetime is limited so I usually don't hit the SP cap. I love this game!
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3591	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:54:00 - [38] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: That's fine and dandy in theory. But in practice that's even worse. Not if the game was actually interesting. Turn WP into something meaningful and people can measure their E peens that way, and get rewarded for it to boot. Won't work unless the game is actually meaningful and fun to play, aka, not a lobby shooter. We're getting there, slowly. Allowing boosters to simply give you 50% extra SP would mean they'd still sell great, if not better, so no money lost there. Right now the quest to attain max SP is what keeps most people coming back, though PC is a nod in the right direction at least. If the game were actually interesting and immersive, you wouldn't need active SP at all.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1893	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:55:00 - [39] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: That's fine and dandy in theory. But in practice that's even worse. Not if the game was actually interesting. Turn WP into something meaningful and people can measure their E peens that way, and get rewarded for it to boot. Won't work unless the game is actually meaningful and fun to play, aka, not a lobby shooter. We're getting there, slowly. Allowing boosters to simply give you 50% extra SP would mean they'd still sell great, if not better, so no money lost there. Right now the quest to attain max SP is what keeps most people coming back, though PC is a nod in the right direction at least. If the game were actually interesting and immersive, you wouldn't need active SP at all. Can't force the game to be interesting first. At least let people enjoy the toys while the game lasts. Might at least get some good fights and with the revenue generate, a good game may emerge after all.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2646	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:56:00 - [40] - Quote I'm in favor of the SP cap.

A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 142	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:56:00 - [41] - Quote I would like to see the cap removed. I am pretty goal orientated and once I hit the cap I pretty much stop as I do not earn much WP per game since I moved away from being a Logi and at best I am a average FPS shooter. Please note that while several players say it is easy to earn 1000 WP I would ask them to look at the leader board at the end of the battle and take note of how many players earn much less than 1000 WP. I would say at least 10 people, on your side, earned less than 500 WP. It is these people who make up the majority of the player base. It would be nice to work out a build/fitting and then earn the SP on a continuous basis until it is achieved without the abrupt SP holt after 2-4 days that the current cap produces. The SP cap is a psychological barrier for me. If my next skill level requires 450k SP and I only have a few thousand SP unallocated then a few thousand extra SP earned after the cap, and playing for hours, just does not feel worth it. At least in Chromosone there was the chance to earn millions of Isk in salvage and now you get one MH-82 HMG etc. Though I understand why it was changed due to the Isk refund we received with 6th May Respec. To the argument that the cap protects us from hardcore players who will earn millions more SP than the rest of us I say "too late" as evidenced by all the talk about the academy, match making, and proto stomps. The one thing many new players will have over the vets when playing this game is greater enthusiasm. They will be more willing to play 23/7 if it results in them earning many millions of SP quickly and they end up becoming competitive sooner rather than in 3-6 months, depending on boosters. Whereas for many of the vets I think when we reach 20-30 million SP we will certainly start to slow down as we will have maxed out 1-2 classes. A hidden benefit of no SP cap is the fact that Respecs will become a thing of the past for many players. Made a bad SP investment then play more and skill into something else the more you play the quicker you will develope your new fitting. Protecting new players from the hardcore no longer works as there are now to many high SP players in the game. Creating SP sinks does not help as it affects the new players even more than the vets. X5 for core skills hurts new players more than it does us. There is some talk of rapid SP earnings for new players and when it was upto 2-3 Million SP I would have agreed that it was a good idea. But now some people are suggesting that this should be increased to 5, 7 or even 10 mil SP. Now I understand the reason behind this SP increase but I would be disappointed in CCP if they granted the new players the ability to play without a cap until they reached or even exceeded the amount of SP I have earned over months while I am still stuck with the cap. Be fair to everyone and just remove the cap in its entirety.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3592	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:59:00 - [42] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Can't force the game to be interesting first. At least let people enjoy the toys while the game lasts. Might at least get some good fights and with the revenue generate, a good game may emerge after all. That's what I'm saying. Ideally, fully passive SP with the option to boost should be perfect. Currently though, it just wouldn't work, the servers would be dead because everyone would just take a massive break while gobbling up SP.
echo47 Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2013.06.10 19:18:00 - [43] - Quote Sontie wrote: Are you For or Against having a weekly/daily/monthly/whatever SP cap or against it and why? Extra points given for good grammar and sound logic. I am for a skill point cap. If the loosing side( pub match or FW) were to see a reduction in skill points and isk for loosing I would be against it. Those who MMC sit and dont try to contribute to atually win a match should not see the same benefits in skill points or isk as the players who try to win.
Salt2131 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6	Posted - 2013.06.10 19:43:00 - [44] - Quote 100% against, you should be too. no way it ruins the game anymore than ccp already has. if you think someone would stop playing the game because of no sp cap your wrong. Those people already left. Now start hating because i dont agree with you
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 544	Posted - 2013.06.10 19:54:00 - [45] - Quote I'm in favor of the cap. No need to encourage endless game play. However, perhaps newer players should be able to earn a bit more than older players. Maybe 20% extra for the first 5 million and then 10% extra for the second 5 million. It's not a huge amount and it would get them into decent competitive gear just a little faster.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 21	Posted - 2013.06.10 20:14:00 - [46] - Quote I am in favor of a cap. Maybe there should be a type of rollover for new players but I rather CCP make there money off boosters verse anything p2w. New players can gain some ground on vets when they buy boosters. Plus there is an upper amount where SP on a suit maxes out, you eventually only grow wider not taller. I really think matchmaking to keep the vets off of the newbs is all we really need. That and PvE to make grinding SP less of a chore.
Luk Manag of Terror 18	Posted - 2013.06.10 20:36:00 - [47] - Quote CCP has smartly relabeled ~"The Cap" as a pool of "Bonus SP" - so you get much less SP when you deplete your Bonus SP. That said, I think you should keep all your WP as SP instead of having it capped at 1000. It spoils the fight if you notice the scoreboard and you can see you've already earned your 1000 and you realize there isn't really any further incentive to try. I don't hit my 1000 cap every fight, but why cap it at 1000? I usually never make more than 2000WP. What harm would there be in letting me keep all my points (sans 'bonus' obviously)?
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 435	Posted - 2013.06.10 21:30:00 - [48] - Quote FOR the cap. There has to be a cap. Reason: Having unlimited SP gain would mean that skill system is impossible to build so that everyone would have a meaningful skill progression. There are hardcore players who are maxing everything - or in unlimited scenario, grinding 20/7 or account sharing to gain the maximum power. If you skill tree and costs are scaled to those hardcore grinders, it would take average players week to gain a basic 100k SP for one level. It would take a MONTH for casual to have even a single skill. Needless to say, this kills interest of most people as there's no progression happening. If you scale skill tree to more casual players, the hardcore grinders get ALL skill in matter of few months and averages within less than year. That means those interested have nothing more to go for as new skills cannot be added infinitely just to feed the hunger for more. Ergo, most playerbase would lose one of the most addictive parts of the game and probably quit.
Sontie Ill Omens EoN. 655	Posted - 2013.06.11 01:04:00 - [49] - Quote rebuttal - skill progression should not be the driving force behind playing this game. If a player maxes out their character skill wise and has no other reason to play, that is bad.
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 264	Posted - 2013.06.11 01:06:00 - [50] - Quote KaTaLy5t-87 wrote: Definitely for the cap because if we had no cap the gap between casual and hardcore players would be even greater than it already is. I have a job but I still get to play Dust most evenings and at the weekends and I can usually cap out on a Monday or Tuesday evening which is fine for me. Now take a guy with no job and all they do is play Dust, with no SP cap they could earn an almost unlimited amount of SP every week. So suddenly the guys like me who just about manage to cap out each week are falling seriously behind the guys who cap oit after 2 days. I'm not just saying this for my own good either, I think the current SP is as fair as it can be across the board and it seems to work pretty well. And besides, it was put to a vote before and that is how we ended up with the current system. If it isn't broken don't try to fix it IMO. Pity the same couldn't be said about the nanite injectors These guys already have the best gear. you will never catch up or even match pace with a no lifer.

Daylon Daxx Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2013.06.11 01:30:00 - [51] - Quote The SP cap doesn't bother me too much. Because of the cap limit, I had to start an alt char. Now I play both during the week. I find alternating between two different builds makes the game more entertaining IMO.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1300	Posted - 2013.06.11 01:41:00 - [52] - Quote At 10,000,000 SP you're going to have a proto suit and a primary weapon capped with most of your core skills. Extra SP after that won't really matter unless you're further enhancing what your currently have through secondary skills or getting a sidearm leveled up. Also passive skills are linked to the modules you fit with the exception of biotics and scanning related skills, there aren't any other core skills that can get you an unfair advantage. So really, having a SP cap now is a bit pointless. But instead of opening the doors to no-lifers or AFKers grinding away SP like mad, I would propose to just make SP 100% passive. Add the weekly active cap to the passive gain rate and that way we get the same SP no matter what, whether we play on the regular or not. The current way SP is set up punishes you for not playing and makes grinding an unnecessary motivation to play instead of having fun with existing content, no matter how minimalistic.
Cy Clone1 Ill Omens EoN. 19	Posted - 2013.06.11 01:46:00 - [53] - Quote I am on the fence about this. the players who have more sp are often the people who can play more. Removing a cap would largely benefit them over your average gamer. On the other hand it would increase the amount of active players. At the moment there is little incentive to play after reaching your cap, especially when your running expensive tanks.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3602	Posted - 2013.06.11 01:46:00 - [54] - Quote Cosgar wrote: But instead of opening the doors to no-lifers or AFKers grinding away SP like mad, I would propose to just make SP 100% passive. Add the weekly active cap to the passive gain rate and that way we get the same SP no matter what, whether we play on the regular or not. The current way SP is set up punishes you for not playing and makes grinding an unnecessary motivation to play instead of having fun with existing content, no matter how minimalistic. I completely agree, but the game has to actually be interesting on it's own merit in order for this to work; so many people would just not play and soak up the SP because why not.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1300	Posted - 2013.06.11 01:51:00 - [55] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Cosgar wrote: But instead of opening the doors to no-lifers or AFKers grinding away SP like mad, I would propose to just make SP 100% passive. Add the weekly active cap to the passive gain rate and that way we get the same SP no matter what, whether we play on the regular or not. The current way SP is set up punishes you for not playing and makes grinding an unnecessary motivation to play instead of having fun with existing content, no matter how minimalistic. I completely agree, but the game has to actually be interesting on it's own merit in order for this to work; so many people would just not play and soak up the SP because why not. That's the issue, Dust 514 isn't fun enough to encourage us to play by its own merit. We need virtual carrots so that Tranquility meets its projected server numbers at the end of the fiscal year.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 13	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:17:00 - [56] - Quote Keep the cap, but give us something else to play for. A looting mechanic will work good, say someone dies and for a brief moment you can loot him for extra isk and/or gear. I doubt that new players can catch up, so have the game be divided in tiers. Advanced players that started from X date onwards play with eachother
Benari Kalidima Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:24:00 - [57] - Quote THEDRiZZLE Aqua teen wrote: Fukk the sp cap it dumb its just a way to make you play for an extended period of time The opposite point could be made too, because for many people, they stop playing after hitting the cap.
Aliakin Koreck Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.06.20 06:15:00 - [58] - Quote RELEASE THE CAAAAAAP End of discussion.
2100 Angels The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 141	Posted - 2013.06.20 06:43:00 - [59] - Quote Aliakin Koreck wrote: RELEASE THE CAAAAAAP End of discussion. Why don't you resurrect another thread
IamI3rian OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 204	Posted - 2013.06.20 07:01:00 - [60] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: There are hardcore players who are maxing everything - or in unlimited scenario, grinding 20/7 or account sharing to gain the maximum power. And both of them are going to have more sp/be better than 'we' are no matter what. If there are people who play the game 12+ hours a day every day they'd murder you with anything. Doing something over and over again for that amount of time is a much greater advantage than skill points. Legit, they'll beat you to death with a nanite injector if they feel like it. And yes, I said both. Most people aren't like that. Most people in Dust are a few months old, and have somewhere below 4 million sp. ...and thanks to some stupid cap system, they'll never, ever be able to catch up to the people who've been here longer. In fact, it'll take months of (needless) grinding to be on a remotely even footing. And the 'vets' are better than them. At the game. They've been playing it longer and for a much greater sum total amount of time. The whole vote (few months ago) was poorly executed because everyone voted out of fear. All anyone saw was the proto-gear... and thought about themselves getting stomped. Had they considered how someone who joins three months from now is gonna catch up to them (say they have 13 million by then) they might've reacted differently. Especially since they're working on maxing out a second suit/vehicle already... since their core skills are max'd. Now that there's more people able to run proto-gear, I think you'll find the support of any kind of cap system lacking. Before that however, players were terrified of the two people who played 10 hours a day every day who managed to pick up early proto suits. /rant.



Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.