Our character is persistent, to some extent the changes to the EVE universe are persistent, but from battle to battle the terrain we fight over never changes. While there may be some deep existential message in that, in the long run it will be the biggest problem with DUST 514.

"You know that orbital cannon installation we fought over yesterday? I though we dropped an orbital strike on it. It's still there and it hasn't been damaged a bit. "

"Remember how you tripped over that silly little bump at the top of those back stairs? The maintenance guys never fixed it. And that blown out wall on the North side of the compound -- the combat engineers didn't do anything yesterday to shore it up. Enemy troops are still pouring in through it."

"Those empty crates outside that warehouse? Here it is two days later and those lazy stevedores haven't moved them an inch."

If the aiming issues are fixed, if the user interface issues are fixed, if the gun-game is fixed ...

For the average player it will be same-old same-old after a while because, except for a few players, what a mercenary in DUST 514 does doesn't change anything that shows up in their game.

That doesn't mean it can't be a good FPS.

It doesn't mean that players invested in EVE / DUST 514 interaction or the meta-game won't get a lot out of it.

What it does mean, in my opinion, is that without some way to show FPS oriented players that they make a difference in the world that resonates with them the bridge between FPS and MMO is fragile indeed. That fragility breeds a fundamental schizophrenia that will be harder to overcome and more damaging the to the game in the long run than any concerns about gun game or planetary conquest.

The point here is that we are causing changes, in terms of ISK to all the players we kill / support/ revive (if the needle decides to work) Often times it's not enough to make a cautious player go negative, but sometimes we are able to force a player to lose ISK in a match, and that rather simple notion of costing them money is what sets this game apart from other games where death is just a breather.

People who refuse to learn the game, and try to pass off deliberate game mechanics designed to encourage the rock/paper/scissors gameplay this entire FPS is based on, should not have their suggestions of how to turn this game into another "run and gun shooter" listened to.

I may sound like a ****, but if you can't figure out the concept of countering an opponent using his weakness...you should stop playing.

Doesn't CCP know all this already/?

Jesues setting your demands quite high here. Only battlefield games have managed to do battlefield damage correctly, I think some of you need to get your expectations back into reality.

The art assets for what you have asked for is mind blowing alone.


That said ccp did slam a crashed ship into a planet and update the matches to reflect this

Jesues setting your demands quite high here. Only battlefield games have managed to do battlefield damage correctly, I think some of you need to get your expectations back into reality.

The art assets for what you have asked for is mind blowing alone.


That said ccp did slam a crashed ship into a planet and update the matches to reflect this

I don't think that the OP realizes how many battles occur on each map every hour.

With 7k active players and 32 per battle you have 218 maps instantiated at once. Which one did you destroy that tank on? What are the chances you would ever see it again? How big a pile of junk would accumulate on each one over the course of a single day? You wouldn't be be to move.

Aside from that you have the frame rate issues from tracking several hundred pieces of junk.

Edited to account for 32 players per match

I have a lot of sympathy for folks who feel the way Duran does. I don't agree, however, that it is in the interest of the DUST 514 player community or CCP to leave the players he's talking about by the wayside.

Any community needs new members to thrive and grow. Most people, especially when an activity is supposed to be fun, don't want to make big changes in their lives to get to the fun part. If you like playing miniature golf with your friends and have a choice between a close-by but easy course and a more challenging course an hour's drive away most folks will go for the close-by course GÇô unless something about the drive is fun too. DUST 514 has to make the trip to the deeper game fun for as many players as possible.

Overcoming a series of increasingly difficult challenges is more engaging than being thrown into the deep end of the pool and being forced to face a big, life-threatening challenge. Challenges crafted so they not only bring immediate rewards but also reveal new ways to be rewarded can give the player insight into new ways to have fun.

Here are some examples...

You kill a drop ship by heroically ramming it with your LAV just after it gets dropped off by the RDV. You tell all your friends about the epic engagement. And for a few days the smouldering wrecks of the two vehicles are still there on the battlefield for you to show off.

You're trying to break thorough the enemies defence in your tank but they are tucked behind a row of low hills. Your heavy guns chip away at the hill and destroy their cover. You team pours through and takes the base. When you return to the planet the hills are still gone.

You are a combat engineer and block the compound gates with containers. You loose a lot of drop suits and gear but the compound is saved. You're blockade stays in place and your team pesters you to clear the road.

In all those cases your exploits are recorded in the history at your DUST 514 website. You can review them, share them, work to improve your performance , or laugh about your epic fail.

Notice that each of these examples does several things.

• It provides a persistent link between your charater and it's public history.
• It provides a way to share your experience with your friends.
• It shows players they can change the world in which they play.
• It reinforces that the changes players make impact the teams and corporations they play for
• It gives a way for their history to impact the way those teams and corporations view them.

Taken together they send a message that the player is part of a bigger community and makes a difference to it.

Even with all of that some folks won't get it, won't care or won't like the idea. But many more won't get it if we have no mechanism in place to foster their progress.

There are specific reasons why the maps are the way they are. Resources. CCP has said that there will be destructible objects in game, but not on the scale that BF3 does it.

That destruction will not be persistent from one match to another, it doesn't make any sense to do that, since we have no way of "re-building" what was lost.

Every map "looks the same" because, well every FPS game has maps that always the same.

You have some good ideas concerning this, but you hinge it all on using Next-Gen consoles. The issue here is that not everyone is going to go out this Christmas and blow $400 bucks on a new console. I'm not, I never buy first release consoles, they are always screwed up. A lot of other players won't either. Then there is the fact that CCP has confirmed they are not moving to PS4 in the near future. (See Video Advancing the Core) It is said during the Q&A part and if I remember correctly Jenza asked the question for someone on #tweetfleet.

In no game is there the scale the op is talking about. BF does damage but you do not come back to that map next week and go oh the hole I shot in that building last week is still there.

Even PS2 doesnt change the fortress it just changes who owns it...it's still the same map it will ever be.

If you are looking for a gamemode that has lasting impact go play PC, you can see you took this district and this planet and it means something. If in a month you get forced out and you do not see your footprint you left...well that's just how War works.

I have a lot of sympathy for folks who feel the way Duran does. I don't agree, however, that it is in the interest of the DUST 514 player community or CCP to leave the players he's talking about by the wayside.

Any community needs new members to thrive and grow. Most people, especially when an activity is supposed to be fun, don't want to make big changes in their lives to get to the fun part. If you like playing miniature golf with your friends and have a choice between a close-by but easy course and a more challenging course an hour's drive away most folks will go for the close-by course GÇô unless something about the drive is fun too. DUST 514 has to make the trip to the deeper game fun for as many players as possible.

Overcoming a series of increasingly difficult challenges is more engaging than being thrown into the deep end of the pool and being forced to face a big, life-threatening challenge. Challenges crafted so they not only bring immediate rewards but also reveal new ways to be rewarded can give the player insight into new ways to have fun.

Here are some examples...

You kill a drop ship by heroically ramming it with your LAV just after it gets dropped off by the RDV. You tell all your friends about the epic engagement. And for a few days the smouldering wrecks of the two vehicles are still there on the battlefield for you to show off.

You're trying to break thorough the enemies defence in your tank but they are tucked behind a row of low hills. Your heavy guns chip away at the hill and destroy their cover. You team pours through and takes the base. When you return to the planet the hills are still gone.

You are a combat engineer and block the compound gates with containers. You loose a lot of drop suits and gear but the compound is saved. You're blockade stays in place and your team pesters you to clear the road.

In all those cases your exploits are recorded in the history at your DUST 514 website. You can review them, share them, work to improve your performance , or laugh about your epic fail.

Notice that each of these examples does several things.

• It provides a persistent link between your charater and it's public history.
• It provides a way to share your experience with your friends.
• It shows players they can change the world in which they play.
• It reinforces that the changes players make impact the teams and corporations they play for
• It gives a way for their history to impact the way those teams and corporations view them.

Taken together they send a message that the player is part of a bigger community and makes a difference to it.

Even with all of that some folks won't get it, won't care or won't like the idea. But many more won't get it if we have no mechanism in place to foster their progress.

In a week the huge pile of MCC wreckage would allow you to step out of the MCC and run down without having to activate your inertial dampener.

This might be possible for PC battles where there are 1-2 battles per district per day maximum, but you still don't have an appreciation for the shear level of activity and destruction that occurs in instant battles.

CCP has to instantiate as many districts as there are concurrent battles unless you want to remove the "Instant" from "Instant Battles". That's 218 districts for 7k active mercs. Let's then take 20 min Skirmish battles. Each battle would generate wreckage from one MCC, and perhaps a dozen vehicles, totaling 72 MCC and 864 vehicle hulks in one 24 hour period.

So let's assume you role the dice and you and your friend actually make it back to that district where you rammed the dropship with your LAV and you want to point out the epicness to your buddy. It would go something like this:

You: Hey Fred, see that dropship wreckage over there? I did that with my LAV!
Fred: You mean that hulk over by the pipes?
You: No, the one in front of the third pile to the left of the Null cannon over there.
Fred: Oh, you mean that bit of twisted wreckage there.
You: No, the other bit that's peeking out of the right side of the pile.
Fred: Look out!

Right then a LAV hits the pile of junk that completely blocks the road and blows up, adding one more hulk to mountain of junk.

You and Fred carefully climb over the pile of wreckage surrounding the Null Cannon and slide down the slope to cap it.

In a week the huge pile of MCC wreckage would allow you to step out of the MCC and run down without having to activate your inertial dampener.

Allow for environment destruction and there wouldn't be a wall left standing inside a week. When do you allow for downtime for the engineers to come in and rebuild?

The numbers show that your vision is impossible no matter what level of technology you assume. You aren't the only merc playing this game. There are thousands of others.