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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3446
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:34:00 -
[61] - Quote
Lilah Silverstone wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:You could switch it out with a sniper if you want RE say what? Good snipers don't need side arms because they coordinate with their squad and are usually placed in hard to reach spots with militia dropships before combat really gets under way Too bad the drop ship will be rail/forge/swarmed before it arrives at its destination, and snipers trying to mountain climb will get picked off my anyone with an active scanner.
That's not true in practice. As someone who's flown the strongest tanked DS you can make, I can safely say that a 70K viper with a couple BPOs is almost always sufficient to get you from A to B early in a match. Dip and weave a bit, and you can usually eat that first shot.
Active scanners aren't as good as you say, but hey, everything has a counter. Your argument here doesn't really speak towards our argument of whether losing a sidearm is a serious enough disadvantage to warrant the logi's many, many advantages. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3446
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Your entire argument relies on "good players", such as yourself, who are so l33t that they don't need side-arms, cause y'know **** versatility, it's just a crutch
I'm not even "good", I'm somewhat above average.
If you aren't good, then the logi SHOULD be the class for you, because you SHOULDN'T be playing a slayer if you aren't good and are going into the "support" class. The lack of a side arm should NOT effect you, because you should NOT be primarily engaging enemies unless you absolutely have to. You are their to support your team, provide a little extra DPS, keep everyone happy, healthy, and full of ammo, among whatever other interesting things you can do with your equipment slots.
The reason that logi's seem to be too strong when "good" players use them, is because they lack serious drawbacks for anyone who is more or less a slayer.
If this wasn't true, then you wouldn't see good slayer players rolling logistics to support their slaying habits.
I can't believe you would complain about swarm launchers. If a heavy comes to forums and whines that his Swarm build sucks because he runs out of ammo and vehicles get away from him too quickly, he gets laughed at because his fit is bad.
What's sad here, is that you can make a strong logi build with swarm launchers, you just have to roll with a squad and like blowing up vehicles |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1791
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
Many advantages? Their only perks are equipment and fitting versatility, because they have more slots, at the cost of base stats.
The Cal logi for instance: Without it's bonus, it needs 1 shield extender just to tie in EHP with a Cal Assault, they then both have 4 extenders left. The Cal logi is still slower and it still has less stamina.
So aside from it's equipment, and 1 extra low slot, what many advantages does it have? This is of course ignoring their bonus. |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
99
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Logis are fine. Some minor adjustments to the Caldari bonus and the Amarr suits, but nothing major. What is needed it to make assault suits more intriguing to run as dmg/front line assaulters. They need more draw to make them more useful over a full combat logi. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1791
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:43:00 -
[65] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:Amarr suits. You better be talking buff here |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3446
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:44:00 -
[66] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Many advantages? Their only perks are equipment and fitting versatility, because they have more slots, at the cost of base stats.
The Cal logi for instance: Without it's bonus, it needs 1 shield extender just to tie in EHP with a Cal Assault, they then both have 4 extenders left. The Cal logi is still slower and it still has less stamina.
So aside from it's equipment, and 1 extra low slot, what many advantages does it have? This is of course ignoring their bonus.
Stamina and speed are very minor balancing factors, because vehicles exist, and holding objectives is preferred in our current, highly limited game modes. Camping is highly encouraged.
So you have to basically ignore the strongest benefits in the game (equipment and more fitting space / easier fitting) along with their suit bonus which is beast (free proto armor rep), in order to say they're somehow on par with Assaults.
L
O
L |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1791
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:48:00 -
[67] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote: Stamina and speed are very minor balancing factors
So... Scout suits... *shrug* |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3447
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:50:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote: Stamina and speed are very minor balancing factors
So... Scout suits... *shrug, walks away*
Logi's are faster and have better stamina than Scouts when properly fit, and are even more sturdy to boot, along with being able to keep hives with their REs, or REs with their hives
And scouts are so hard to fit, almost no one uses side arms with them. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
162
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:51:00 -
[69] - Quote
Gallente logistics atm have the lowest EHP of all the suits, Amarr and minmatar have the second highest, and Caldari has the highest. |
GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
Updated OP for those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability and are not able to understand.
:) |
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
163
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:39:00 -
[71] - Quote
Stat comparison of all suits using the same amount of modules, this means using all of their high slots for shields and 2 low slots for armor. Not doing scouts or heavies. As you can see the "OP" logistics fall behind their assault variants which is exactly as they should be, the actual OP suits are the CaLogi, and the Minmatar assault which has a super high EHP/Speed ratio, the underpowered suits are the Gallente suits and the Amarr suits.
Calling all of the logistics overpowered only because they can rep armor a bit faster than a assault is in no way OP, they have lower EHP, and lower speed, the extra low slot in no way compensate the lack of EHP because it comes with a sacrifice in speed, the extra CPU/PG is meant for modules and compared to a Assault they both need to get the PG/CPU + skills to compensate.
Caldari Logistics NO racial EHP: 843 2 FREE LOW
Caldari Logistics racial EHP: 934 2 FREE LOW
Gallente Logistics EHP: 698 3 FREE LOW
Caldari Assault EHP: 846 1 FREE LOW
Gallente Assault EHP: 773 2 FREE LOW
CaLogi NO racial -1 High slot EHP: 770 2 FREE LOW
_________ Amarr Assault EHP:811 1 FREE LOW
Amarr Logistics EHP:736 1 FREE LOW
Minmatar Assault EHP: 862 0 FREE LOW <-- 5.01m/s base speed after armor modules, wow...
Minmatar Logistics EHP: 733 2 FREE LOW <-- 4.72 base speed after armor modules |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1791
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:48:00 -
[72] - Quote
GVGISDEAD wrote:Updated OP for those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability and are not able to understand.
:) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=785193#post785193
Without the Cal logi bonus, the difference between a fully shield tanks logi and assault is negligible.
Also, the Logi, is far more expensive since the suits costs the same, but you have to pay for all those mods just to catch up to the assault suit. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1792
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:52:00 -
[73] - Quote
Quote:If we look at High-Power the Logistics class is capable of stacking the same amount of damage mods or more than the Assault class while maintaining versatility. Stacking penalties make anything past 3 pointless. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
163
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:55:00 -
[74] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Quote:If we look at High-Power the Logistics class is capable of stacking the same amount of damage mods or more than the Assault class while maintaining versatility. Stacking penalties make anything past 3 pointless.
Even so, none of the logistics have 1 High slot over their assault counter part, except for the CaLogi and the MinLogi, so trying to stack damage mods would turn them into slow glass cannons with subpar EHP.
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RKKR
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
41
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:01:00 -
[75] - Quote
GVGISDEAD wrote:Updated OP for those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability and are not able to understand.
:)
I made a summary because I thought that those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability are not able to read the whole text.
Fact GÇ£AGÇ¥ (Class Bonus) The assault bonus is useless so I think logis should be nerfed and then I'm talking about something that should be in 'Fact "C" Slots'.
Fact GÇ£BGÇ¥ (CPU/PG) CPU/PG stuff needs to change so logis can carry equipment but can't be a killer machine, but I'm not actually making a suggestion so instead I decided to troll everyone with a NERF.
Fact GÇ£CGÇ¥ Slots Says logis can fit up like an assault because of more slots. Suddenly we can fit more damage mods than assaults and for some magical reason still have those slots to fit up like an assault.
Fact GÇ£DGÇ¥ (Equipment vs Sidearm) Just some shaming of people that use sidearm. He fails to make a point.
Fact GÇ£EGÇ¥(Racial Bonuses) Fails to mention Amar. No issues with Gallente and Minmatar. Some numbers on the Caldari suits. Still thinks it's cool to troll by saying all logis are going to be nerfed.
Summary of the summary: This is a troll thread or just another Caldari logi is OP but I want to see all logis burn to hell.
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Shadowswipe
WarRavens
99
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:02:00 -
[76] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:Amarr suits. You better be talking buff here Most definitely. I Was Amarr before the last respec.... and after the optional respec. I jsut adjusted some points around to make up for the huge lack of PG it has. I now have a strong suit, but I only have 1 basic repair module on it. Repair modules cost a lot of PG. Once they get adjusted, ie buffed up. I will reinvest into higher skill for repair modules.
Amarr before they will be called OP with a buff. Amarr for life. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
163
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
RKKR wrote:GVGISDEAD wrote:Updated OP for those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability and are not able to understand.
:) I made a summary because I thought that those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability are not able to read the whole text. Fact GÇ£AGÇ¥ (Class Bonus)The assault bonus is useless so I think logis should be nerfed and then I'm talking about something that should be in 'Fact "C" Slots'. Fact GÇ£BGÇ¥ (CPU/PG)CPU/PG stuff needs to change so logis can carry equipment but can't be a killer machine, but I'm not actually making a suggestion so instead I decided to troll everyone with a NERF. Fact GÇ£CGÇ¥ SlotsSays logis can fit up like an assault because of more slots. Suddenly we can fit more damage mods than assaults and for some magical reason still have those slots to fit up like an assault. Fact GÇ£DGÇ¥ (Equipment vs Sidearm)Just some shaming of people that use sidearm. He fails to make a point. Fact GÇ£EGÇ¥(Racial Bonuses)Fails to mention Amar. No issues with Gallente and Minmatar. Some numbers on the Caldari suits. Still thinks it's cool to troll by saying all logis are going to be nerfed. Summary of the summary: This is a troll thread or just another Caldari logi is OP but I want to see all logis burn to hell.
So because the CaLogi is OP you want all of the logistics to suffer? That makes... a lot of sense? Your "trolling" just makes you look like another malinformed kiddie throwing the word OP around to anything and everything they see. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1792
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:06:00 -
[78] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:RKKR wrote:GVGISDEAD wrote:Updated OP for those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability and are not able to understand.
:) I made a summary because I thought that those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability are not able to read the whole text. Fact GÇ£AGÇ¥ (Class Bonus)The assault bonus is useless so I think logis should be nerfed and then I'm talking about something that should be in 'Fact "C" Slots'. Fact GÇ£BGÇ¥ (CPU/PG)CPU/PG stuff needs to change so logis can carry equipment but can't be a killer machine, but I'm not actually making a suggestion so instead I decided to troll everyone with a NERF. Fact GÇ£CGÇ¥ SlotsSays logis can fit up like an assault because of more slots. Suddenly we can fit more damage mods than assaults and for some magical reason still have those slots to fit up like an assault. Fact GÇ£DGÇ¥ (Equipment vs Sidearm)Just some shaming of people that use sidearm. He fails to make a point. Fact GÇ£EGÇ¥(Racial Bonuses)Fails to mention Amar. No issues with Gallente and Minmatar. Some numbers on the Caldari suits. Still thinks it's cool to troll by saying all logis are going to be nerfed. Summary of the summary: This is a troll thread or just another Caldari logi is OP but I want to see all logis burn to hell. So because the CaLogi is OP you want all of the logistics to suffer? That makes... a lot of sense? Your "trolling" just makes you look like another malinformed kiddie throwing the word OP around to anything and everything they see.
He's mocking the OP lol |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
166
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:08:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:RKKR wrote:GVGISDEAD wrote:Updated OP for those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability and are not able to understand.
:) I made a summary because I thought that those players with weak minds, faulty brain processes or some disability are not able to read the whole text. Fact GÇ£AGÇ¥ (Class Bonus)The assault bonus is useless so I think logis should be nerfed and then I'm talking about something that should be in 'Fact "C" Slots'. Fact GÇ£BGÇ¥ (CPU/PG)CPU/PG stuff needs to change so logis can carry equipment but can't be a killer machine, but I'm not actually making a suggestion so instead I decided to troll everyone with a NERF. Fact GÇ£CGÇ¥ SlotsSays logis can fit up like an assault because of more slots. Suddenly we can fit more damage mods than assaults and for some magical reason still have those slots to fit up like an assault. Fact GÇ£DGÇ¥ (Equipment vs Sidearm)Just some shaming of people that use sidearm. He fails to make a point. Fact GÇ£EGÇ¥(Racial Bonuses)Fails to mention Amar. No issues with Gallente and Minmatar. Some numbers on the Caldari suits. Still thinks it's cool to troll by saying all logis are going to be nerfed. Summary of the summary: This is a troll thread or just another Caldari logi is OP but I want to see all logis burn to hell. So because the CaLogi is OP you want all of the logistics to suffer? That makes... a lot of sense? Your "trolling" just makes you look like another malinformed kiddie throwing the word OP around to anything and everything they see. He's mocking the OP lol
I thought that was OP on an alt, who failed at switching to the OP ::< and was actually being serious. |
RKKR
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
42
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote: So because the CaLogi is OP you want all of the logistics to suffer? That makes... a lot of sense? Your "trolling" just makes you look like another malinformed kiddie throwing the word OP around to anything and everything they see.
I think you missed the point...I was making a summary of GVGISDEADs post...unless this post was directed to him
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GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:11:00 -
[81] - Quote
Some people can't use their neurons... to actually read correctly who was posting it.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
166
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:11:00 -
[82] - Quote
RKKR wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote: So because the CaLogi is OP you want all of the logistics to suffer? That makes... a lot of sense? Your "trolling" just makes you look like another malinformed kiddie throwing the word OP around to anything and everything they see.
I think you missed the point...I was making a summary of GVGISDEADs post...unless this post was directed to him
Now it is, I thought you were the OP on an alt lol |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
166
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
GVGISDEAD wrote:Some people can't use their neurons... to actually read correctly who was posting it.
And some people can't do research before posting a nerf thread ::) |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1095
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
@OP
Here's my standard fittings challenge. Build your optimal 'slayer' fit on a racial Assault suit of your choosing (or better yet do one for each race). Record and post the stats and mods for this overall fit along with it's total ISP per fit cost and the SP required to attain the numbers/run the gear you've posted.
Once done build the same fit within the corresponding race (or races) using a Logi suit. Here's the catch, you must make best efforts up to and including fitting of mods and investment in skills to bring all stats on this Logi fit up to the level of the Assault fit before stacking extra mods/point into any stat.
With both/all fits completed and posted to above standards compare the overall ISK and SP cost of each build and provide the current sub-total. Now add the side arm and extra equipment slots to each suit as appropriate to fill all remaining slots. Provide a second sub-total/comparison for this aspect of the fitting.
Once done provide the full total for each of the listed fittings (again in both SP and ISK). Unless you find a configuration I've set to see the implications are pretty obvious at this point and rather conflict with the point of your OP. Further bonus points are granted for building fits without the use of the AR line (as honestly the AR is such a jack of all trades that it improperly devalues the sidearm in various cases).
When talking nerfs and buffs maintaining full context is key as cherry picking aspects (even several aspects) leads to omission and distortion.
0.02 ISK Cross |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1793
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:16:00 -
[85] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:GVGISDEAD wrote:Some people can't use their neurons... to actually read correctly who was posting it.
And some people can't do research before posting a nerf thread ::) Using the Gallente smiley I see -:) (I wish I was Amarr lol) |
GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:18:00 -
[86] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:GVGISDEAD wrote:Some people can't use their neurons... to actually read correctly who was posting it.
And some people can't do research before posting a nerf thread ::)
I didn't posted a nerf thread it is just an opinion and something likely to happen as it was stated to be under "monitoring" by the staff. If you cannot distinguish between a constructive suggestion and a biased opinion then I am amazed.
Although I am amazed the thread lasted when it was clearly a troll.
LOL |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1793
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:20:00 -
[87] - Quote
GVGISDEAD wrote:ead lasted when it was clearly a troll.
I blame Fiend |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1096
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:21:00 -
[88] - Quote
GVGISDEAD wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:GVGISDEAD wrote:Some people can't use their neurons... to actually read correctly who was posting it.
And some people can't do research before posting a nerf thread ::) I didn't posted a nerf thread it is just an opinion and something likely to happen as it was stated to be under "monitoring" by the staff. If you cannot distinguish between a constructive suggestion and a biased opinion then I am amazed. Although I am amazed the thread lasted when it was clearly a troll. LOL So does this mean there's no hope for seeing actual fittings from you as per my prior post? |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3453
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:21:00 -
[89] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:GVGISDEAD wrote:ead lasted when it was clearly a troll.
I blame Fiend
Me too
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GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:24:00 -
[90] - Quote
Obviously not, I am sitting on a ~14 m SP pool without using any SP just waiting for new weapons, dropsuit's balancing and possible changes in the skill tree |
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