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General Grodd
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
290
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 02:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Im getting tired and bored of running and hiding with my tank from simple infantry AV. And especially railgun snipers. Yet Railgun sniping is the the only way to sustain positive -áisk and it gets horribly boring sitting on a mountain 24/7. I have all Proto versions of all sizes of all turrets, so I have tried every kind of tank of method. The little HP and high damage tanks have is just a run n gun game, just with vehicles. AV wise we simply don't have our adv/proto HAVs yet so we can't compete with it. All this glass cannon crap is getting old and boring. No new fittings or strategies. The PG nerf was a stupid move and further limited the variety in tank fittings.Full Passive or full actice tanking is a joke with shield tanks because shield reps are inefficient, shield hardeners just don't give quite enough resistance, and shield regen modules are worthless. Enforcers are hardly worth it, some extra dmg and range with an extra slot at the expense of less CPU/PG, less acceleration and speed, and less HP. this is only a glorified glass cannon. Were are the real tanks?! I don't fragile crap I want giant science fiction tanks with all sorts of weaponry and modules that helps support teammates with cover and munitions while breaking through frontlines with unrivaled firepower and HP. |
Konohamaru Sarutobi
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
359
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 02:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
General Grodd wrote:Im getting tired and bored of running and hiding with my tank from simple infantry AV. And especially railgun snipers. Yet Railgun sniping is the the only way to sustain positive -áisk and it gets horribly boring sitting on a mountain 24/7. I have all Proto versions of all sizes of all turrets, so I have tried every kind of tank of method. The little HP and high damage tanks have is just a run n gun game, just with vehicles. AV wise we simply don't have our adv/proto HAVs yet so we can't compete with it. All this glass cannon crap is getting old and boring. No new fittings or strategies. The PG nerf was a stupid move and further limited the variety in tank fittings.Full Passive or full actice tanking is a joke with shield tanks because shield reps are inefficient, shield hardeners just don't give quite enough resistance, and shield regen modules are worthless. Enforcers are hardly worth it, some extra dmg and range with an extra slot at the expense of less CPU/PG, less acceleration and speed, and less HP. this is only a glorified glass cannon. Were are the real tanks?! I don't fragile crap I want giant science fiction tanks with all sorts of weaponry and modules that helps support teammates with cover and munitions while breaking through frontlines with unrivaled firepower and HP.
Logi Lav is your Proto HAV... duh!! |
General Grodd
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
290
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 02:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:General Grodd wrote:Im getting tired and bored of running and hiding with my tank from simple infantry AV. And especially railgun snipers. Yet Railgun sniping is the the only way to sustain positive -áisk and it gets horribly boring sitting on a mountain 24/7. I have all Proto versions of all sizes of all turrets, so I have tried every kind of tank of method. The little HP and high damage tanks have is just a run n gun game, just with vehicles. AV wise we simply don't have our adv/proto HAVs yet so we can't compete with it. All this glass cannon crap is getting old and boring. No new fittings or strategies. The PG nerf was a stupid move and further limited the variety in tank fittings.Full Passive or full actice tanking is a joke with shield tanks because shield reps are inefficient, shield hardeners just don't give quite enough resistance, and shield regen modules are worthless. Enforcers are hardly worth it, some extra dmg and range with an extra slot at the expense of less CPU/PG, less acceleration and speed, and less HP. this is only a glorified glass cannon. Were are the real tanks?! I don't fragile crap I want giant science fiction tanks with all sorts of weaponry and modules that helps support teammates with cover and munitions while breaking through frontlines with unrivaled firepower and HP. Logi Lav is your Proto HAV... duh!! Lol sad but true.-á |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
2034
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 02:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've run out of fitting ideas for dropships too, honestly I've tried numerous sit-ups and have settled on the one that I think is best, but I'm still paper thin and ridiculously easy to kill. |
lllIIIlI IIIlIl
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 02:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? |
Konohamaru Sarutobi
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
359
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 02:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
gbghg wrote:I've run out of fitting ideas for dropships too, honestly I've tried numerous sit-ups and have settled on the one that I think is best, but I'm still paper thin and ridiculously easy to kill.
Logi Lav is your Proto Dropship... duh! |
Aqua-Regia
Ahrendee Frontlinez
146
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 02:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
glass cannon crap LOL. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1833
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aqua-Regia wrote: glass cannon crap LOL. That doesn't seem to bother you, I'll say that much. Loved that Leeroy Jenkins video Jungian made with you and your tank. |
General Grodd
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
292
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á |
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance
56
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
The OP needs lessons in HAV piloting it seems. No amount of SP can compensate for skill, and I only bring this up because there are HAV pilots out there that cause me untold grief. Chief amongst them is a Sir Moede or something like that. He is always in the middle of the action in his tank, always getting tactical positions yet rarely not in a position to be immune from return AV fire himself.
Current good shield tanks can shrug off swarm missles like they are nothing, I don't know how they fare against FG because I don't use them.
OP gets a +1 for his desire to get into the action and tear **** up. He gets a -10 for the nonsense about shields being worthless. |
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General Grodd
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
292
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
General Grodd wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á Just wait till I get my sagaris back, no when I get my Chakram, you'll be sorry. Very sorry. ^_^-á |
lllIIIlI IIIlIl
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
General Grodd wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á It costs 10x, but you're in a tank and you should never die, so it doesn't really matter. Idk how you can get killed by nades when all you have to do is look at people and they die. |
Konohamaru Sarutobi
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
361
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:General Grodd wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á It costs 10x, but you're in a tank and you should never die, so it doesn't really matter. Idk how you can get killed by nades when all you have to do is look at people and they die.
Lai Dai says " Hello " |
BobThe843CakeMan
BurgezzE.T.F
394
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:General Grodd wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á It costs 10x, but you're in a tank and you should never die, so it doesn't really matter. Idk how you can get killed by nades when all you have to do is look at people and they die. says the guy who has never driven a tank. |
lllIIIlI IIIlIl
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:General Grodd wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á It costs 10x, but you're in a tank and you should never die, so it doesn't really matter. Idk how you can get killed by nades when all you have to do is look at people and they die. Lai Dai says " Hello " And tank says goodbye because they eat all the damage and just 1 shot people. |
Princeps Marcellus
Expert Intervention Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:General Grodd wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á It costs 10x, but you're in a tank and you should never die, so it doesn't really matter. Idk how you can get killed by nades when all you have to do is look at people and they die. Lai Dai says " Hello "
Here's an industry secret for you: Lai Dai manufactorums paint the name of the individual HAV pilots that they're designed to kill for the greatest troll effect. |
lllIIIlI IIIlIl
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
BobThe843CakeMan wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:General Grodd wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á It costs 10x, but you're in a tank and you should never die, so it doesn't really matter. Idk how you can get killed by nades when all you have to do is look at people and they die. says the guy who has never driven a tank. Why would I need to drive a tank? I'm not a bad player I don't need to abuse broken mechanics in order to do well. |
SuperKing BigNuts
Contract Hunters
108
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
you gotta keep in mind that having a brick tank that can 1shot infantry is going to raise a fit... though i do feel that the tanks have been severely neutered... i do feel a new balance needs to be achieved... but how... more hp means that you will HAVE to switch to a dedicated AV fit every time you see a tank, and then make the switch back to running infantry... which to a degree makes sense, but to spend 10 minutes as AV trying to take down a brick tank, even with a bad driver, the infantry are going to QQ HARD!
a trade off for range or damage would make it impractical to use because it will have hard times getting kills and that will make tank drivers complain... if a tank is 2x as healthy, to keep it balanced with other tanks, should be 50% as powerful from a paper stance... so how exactly does one tackle this issue?
i agree that there should be a more 'tanky' tank to withstand infantry firepower better, but how do you implement it while remaining 'balanced'? i think the best methods would be to provide module class specific bonuses(like a reduction to shield extender/armor plate CPU/PG reqs, or bonus to efficacy) to encourage proper intended use rather than simply adding more slots for someone to simply stack offensive mods on the TANK tank. to counter the dps output, perhaps have a listed range/damage role penalty?
this is just spitballing what i can with a possible solution to the problems that might arise |
General Grodd
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
294
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:The OP needs lessons in HAV piloting it seems. No amount of SP can compensate for skill, and I only bring this up because there are HAV pilots out there that cause me untold grief. Chief amongst them is a Sir Moede or something like that. He is always in the middle of the action in his tank, always getting tactical positions yet rarely not in a position to be immune from return AV fire himself.
Current good shield tanks can shrug off swarm missles like they are nothing, I don't know how they fare against FG because I don't use them.
OP gets a +1 for his desire to get into the action and tear **** up. He gets a -10 for the nonsense about shields being worthless. Lol no you misunderstood me. They aren't worthless, but passively shield tanking is. In eve passively tanking would not use any reppers nor hardeners, but use -áonly shield regeneration modules and resistance modules. Shield regeneration modules are just not effective at all ATM. I even have a falchion, I prefer shield over armor cuz it just fun. I use missile turrets. And shield tanks are at a huge disadvantage against other tanks, but it should be reversed. Armor tanks should be able take on a bit mire infantry (bladders are their primary weapon) while shield tanks are for annihilating armor. yet module wise they just can't very well. |
Caeli SineDeo
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
566
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:The OP needs lessons in HAV piloting it seems. No amount of SP can compensate for skill, and I only bring this up because there are HAV pilots out there that cause me untold grief. Chief amongst them is a Sir Moede or something like that. He is always in the middle of the action in his tank, always getting tactical positions yet rarely not in a position to be immune from return AV fire himself.
Current good shield tanks can shrug off swarm missles like they are nothing, I don't know how they fare against FG because I don't use them.
OP gets a +1 for his desire to get into the action and tear **** up. He gets a -10 for the nonsense about shields being worthless. You get a -10 because shield tanks are worthless.
Most shield tanks drop from 4 shots of a proto forge. GOing full tank on a shield tank can eat more then that but you loose the one advantage you do have and that is damage mods.
Their is not a shield tank out their that can beat a armor tank 1v1. Even if you come up on my arse end with proto missile turret and get volleys into me first I can turn onto a shield tank and not flinch and take it out with no trouble.
So yes shield tanks are worthless in Corp battles. Sir Moede is a top tanker Personally him and slap are the only 2 tankers I can say I regard as a damn hard fight. Sad thing is Sir Moede Can say that he is not making out on his tanking.
I am hoping to get CCP to fix things but we will see. |
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Konohamaru Sarutobi
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
361
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just making propaganda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V80zbPXFL8 |
General Grodd
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
294
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:General Grodd wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á It costs 10x, but you're in a tank and you should never die, so it doesn't really matter. Idk how you can get killed by nades when all you have to do is look at people and they die. says the guy who has never driven a tank. Why would I need to drive a tank? I'm not a bad player I don't need to abuse broken mechanics in order to do well. Did you know the most powerful weapon is a forge gun? More powerful than a compressed particle cannon railgun turret? Yeah they can look at you and kill you instantly. And me in many cases.Look at the numbers if you don't believe me. |
lllIIIlI IIIlIl
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
General Grodd wrote: Did you know the most powerful weapon is a forge gun? More powerful than a compressed particle cannon railgun turret? Yeah they can look at you and kill you instantly. And me in many cases.Look at the numbers if you don't believe me.
Ya the fact that an AV weapon can 1 shot infantry is stupid. Too bad it's useless against tanks because tanks are OP and never die. |
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance
59
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
SuperKing BigNuts wrote:you gotta keep in mind that having a brick tank that can 1shot infantry is going to raise a fit... though i do feel that the tanks have been severely neutered... i do feel a new balance needs to be achieved... but how... more hp means that you will HAVE to switch to a dedicated AV fit every time you see a tank, and then make the switch back to running infantry... which to a degree makes sense, but to spend 10 minutes as AV trying to take down a brick tank, even with a bad driver, the infantry are going to QQ HARD!
Quoting as a infantry man who QQs hard.
I now play as a dedicated AV player, it started off as an attempt to stem the tide of mlt lavs, and its great taking those mooks down. But after putting in serious time and SP in the field of AV to me it feels like HAV drivers feel they have the **** end of the stick. Sadly the dynamic is very different! Running AV means I have a pistol against the hoards of MG/Rifle maniacs out there while my primary weapon can mostly only force a HAV off the field instead of taking him out.
Sure mlt tanks go down, I would like to think its because I now know what am doing, getting tank kills can be very easy and satisfying when I do it solo. Against 1 good man in his HAV the story is different, am calling in squad members away from their duties for assistance, in certain circumstances am asking them to suicide weaker tanks to pull these guys into the open so I can finish them off. I ask other players to play the game differently in order to help me deal with 1 other guy. That isn't fair but its the way it is.
Its a strange dilemma where AV runners and HAV pilots both ask for more without taking into consideration the feelings and expectations of the other player. I truly feel that we do not have big enough servers to justify HAV in this current iteration of Dust. I enjoy fighting HAV pilots but I cant stand their tears. I have 500 ehp compared to their thousands, I have a meagre side arm to fight against the hoardes while I simultaneously take on my primary foe. How do we make this game so we all have what we want? |
BobThe843CakeMan
BurgezzE.T.F
394
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:General Grodd wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:wtf tanks are op as **** how do you even die in one? OP? You're an idiot. My turret costs at least more than 10x your suit. And I can die from things the size of rats in 3 seconds. (AV grenades)-á It costs 10x, but you're in a tank and you should never die, so it doesn't really matter. Idk how you can get killed by nades when all you have to do is look at people and they die. says the guy who has never driven a tank. Why would I need to drive a tank? I'm not a bad player I don't need to abuse broken mechanics in order to do well. then drive one and see how good u do. i'm curious. and explain how it's broken. |
BobThe843CakeMan
BurgezzE.T.F
394
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:General Grodd wrote: Did you know the most powerful weapon is a forge gun? More powerful than a compressed particle cannon railgun turret? Yeah they can look at you and kill you instantly. And me in many cases.Look at the numbers if you don't believe me.
Ya the fact that an AV weapon can 1 shot infantry is stupid. Too bad it's useless against tanks because tanks are OP and never die. they never die. Lol u obviously have no AV. so either get AV or Live with it bro. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
773
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
The guy with random symbols in his name being an idiot is surprising.
Said no one ever. |
SuperKing BigNuts
Contract Hunters
108
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:SuperKing BigNuts wrote:you gotta keep in mind that having a brick tank that can 1shot infantry is going to raise a fit... though i do feel that the tanks have been severely neutered... i do feel a new balance needs to be achieved... but how... more hp means that you will HAVE to switch to a dedicated AV fit every time you see a tank, and then make the switch back to running infantry... which to a degree makes sense, but to spend 10 minutes as AV trying to take down a brick tank, even with a bad driver, the infantry are going to QQ HARD! Quoting as a infantry man who QQs hard. I now play as a dedicated AV player, it started off as an attempt to stem the tide of mlt lavs, and its great taking those mooks down. But after putting in serious time and SP in the field of AV to me it feels like HAV drivers feel they have the **** end of the stick. Sadly the dynamic is very different! Running AV means I have a pistol against the hoards of MG/Rifle maniacs out there while my primary weapon can mostly only force a HAV off the field instead of taking him out. Sure mlt tanks go down, I would like to think its because I now know what am doing, getting tank kills can be very easy and satisfying when I do it solo. Against 1 good man in his HAV the story is different, am calling in squad members away from their duties for assistance, in certain circumstances am asking them to suicide weaker tanks to pull these guys into the open so I can finish them off. I ask other players to play the game differently in order to help me deal with 1 other guy. That isn't fair but its the way it is. Its a strange dilemma where AV runners and HAV pilots both ask for more without taking into consideration the feelings and expectations of the other player. I truly feel that we do not have big enough servers to justify HAV in this current iteration of Dust. I enjoy fighting HAV pilots but I cant stand their tears. I have 500 ehp compared to their thousands, I have a meagre side arm to fight against the hoardes while I simultaneously take on my primary foe. How do we make this game so we all have what we want?
this is exactly why i was making the statements i was, its hard for an individual AV to take down many tanks, and ends up wasting most of a match chasing off the same tank driver repeatedly. to stand a chance at taking them down, as you said, you need at least 1 other guy with solid AV to stop what hes doing to come take out some pest of a tank. more if theyre bein redline campers hiding with snipers or ontop of structures... which is why i was attempting to present an argument for a tanky-er tank without it just being completely impossible to kill and still 1shotting as a sniper from the redline or mowing down AV before they can get a lock in or a second volley after initiating an attack from an advantageous position.
i never run without AV grenades on my fits just to handle the militia and standard tanks, but i stand little to no chance at taking out a the high end proto-fit tanks due to my limitation of militia swarms.
and you responded with an appropriate and mature response to my propositions, but i would be willing to bet that we both know the sort of rage that would happen if tanks got more hp without some sort of drawback to counteract its bonus.
sort of what im thinking is something akin to a mobile wall rolling up providing cover for infantry to cross a killing field, while being able to provide 'effective' damage to opponents to deter other vehicles, primarily jeeps and close air support dropships |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
316
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
as a shield tank, I have plenty of drawback. worthless active mods, barely passable active modules, and my specialized turret(missiles) can be described as temperamental at best(even accelerated have some nasty dispersion at speed greater than a full stop, if they even fired this volley)
not to mention that grenades do significantly more than dedicated av for less of an investment. its a bad balance right now where tanks are either ruling the field unopposed, or running for the hills because one person has AV. |
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance
62
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
SuperKing BigNuts wrote: sort of what im thinking is something akin to a mobile wall rolling up providing cover for infantry to cross a killing field, while being able to provide 'effective' damage to opponents to deter other vehicles, primarily jeeps and close air support dropships
I think what you are asking for will be delievered with the introduction of MAV. A hardenered APC that will be able to roll into fortified areas, perhaps it will be only equipped with 1 small turret but having high resistance and EHP so I can get to where it needs to go and deliever its payload then egress out of the hot zone. Whatever the specifics of its design am sure it will be much more than a LAV capable of ferrying more than 3 people.
As for HAV, I honestly hope they don't get more ehp. I would be in favour of them having more attack potential rather more defensive. I have seen them work, seen pilots go 25-0 and beyond with a blaster, the pilots know what they are doing and credit to their skill. They pose the proper threat level and warrant the proper response from the opposing team.
Imagine HAV getting a mlt lav boost? Just damn right aweful sounding. |
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