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SuperKing BigNuts
Contract Hunters
108
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Posted - 2013.06.06 03:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
you gotta keep in mind that having a brick tank that can 1shot infantry is going to raise a fit... though i do feel that the tanks have been severely neutered... i do feel a new balance needs to be achieved... but how... more hp means that you will HAVE to switch to a dedicated AV fit every time you see a tank, and then make the switch back to running infantry... which to a degree makes sense, but to spend 10 minutes as AV trying to take down a brick tank, even with a bad driver, the infantry are going to QQ HARD!
a trade off for range or damage would make it impractical to use because it will have hard times getting kills and that will make tank drivers complain... if a tank is 2x as healthy, to keep it balanced with other tanks, should be 50% as powerful from a paper stance... so how exactly does one tackle this issue?
i agree that there should be a more 'tanky' tank to withstand infantry firepower better, but how do you implement it while remaining 'balanced'? i think the best methods would be to provide module class specific bonuses(like a reduction to shield extender/armor plate CPU/PG reqs, or bonus to efficacy) to encourage proper intended use rather than simply adding more slots for someone to simply stack offensive mods on the TANK tank. to counter the dps output, perhaps have a listed range/damage role penalty?
this is just spitballing what i can with a possible solution to the problems that might arise |
SuperKing BigNuts
Contract Hunters
108
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:SuperKing BigNuts wrote:you gotta keep in mind that having a brick tank that can 1shot infantry is going to raise a fit... though i do feel that the tanks have been severely neutered... i do feel a new balance needs to be achieved... but how... more hp means that you will HAVE to switch to a dedicated AV fit every time you see a tank, and then make the switch back to running infantry... which to a degree makes sense, but to spend 10 minutes as AV trying to take down a brick tank, even with a bad driver, the infantry are going to QQ HARD! Quoting as a infantry man who QQs hard. I now play as a dedicated AV player, it started off as an attempt to stem the tide of mlt lavs, and its great taking those mooks down. But after putting in serious time and SP in the field of AV to me it feels like HAV drivers feel they have the **** end of the stick. Sadly the dynamic is very different! Running AV means I have a pistol against the hoards of MG/Rifle maniacs out there while my primary weapon can mostly only force a HAV off the field instead of taking him out. Sure mlt tanks go down, I would like to think its because I now know what am doing, getting tank kills can be very easy and satisfying when I do it solo. Against 1 good man in his HAV the story is different, am calling in squad members away from their duties for assistance, in certain circumstances am asking them to suicide weaker tanks to pull these guys into the open so I can finish them off. I ask other players to play the game differently in order to help me deal with 1 other guy. That isn't fair but its the way it is. Its a strange dilemma where AV runners and HAV pilots both ask for more without taking into consideration the feelings and expectations of the other player. I truly feel that we do not have big enough servers to justify HAV in this current iteration of Dust. I enjoy fighting HAV pilots but I cant stand their tears. I have 500 ehp compared to their thousands, I have a meagre side arm to fight against the hoardes while I simultaneously take on my primary foe. How do we make this game so we all have what we want?
this is exactly why i was making the statements i was, its hard for an individual AV to take down many tanks, and ends up wasting most of a match chasing off the same tank driver repeatedly. to stand a chance at taking them down, as you said, you need at least 1 other guy with solid AV to stop what hes doing to come take out some pest of a tank. more if theyre bein redline campers hiding with snipers or ontop of structures... which is why i was attempting to present an argument for a tanky-er tank without it just being completely impossible to kill and still 1shotting as a sniper from the redline or mowing down AV before they can get a lock in or a second volley after initiating an attack from an advantageous position.
i never run without AV grenades on my fits just to handle the militia and standard tanks, but i stand little to no chance at taking out a the high end proto-fit tanks due to my limitation of militia swarms.
and you responded with an appropriate and mature response to my propositions, but i would be willing to bet that we both know the sort of rage that would happen if tanks got more hp without some sort of drawback to counteract its bonus.
sort of what im thinking is something akin to a mobile wall rolling up providing cover for infantry to cross a killing field, while being able to provide 'effective' damage to opponents to deter other vehicles, primarily jeeps and close air support dropships |
SuperKing BigNuts
Contract Hunters
109
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Telleth wrote:I think my biggest complaint as a HAV pilot is the lack of variety. You go shield or armor, then you spend the rest of your SP trying to lvl 5 in a handful of skills.
Going after a 700k SP lvl 5 skill for an extra 3% pg reduction to one specific module is boring as hell at a 3k-6kSP per match rate.
Give us some more diversity in skills. There are hardly any skills at all for turrets. Hell, nerf the turrets so that a full load of lvl 5 skills in rate of fire, overheating, tracking speed, and such bring their stats to current levels. Then buff the pg/hp of tanks and you've fixed 90% of the whining on both sides of the AV table.
Stop using the rank of the skill as an arbitrary SP sink, it just makes the progression rate slow and dull.
i agree with the SP sink commentary... especially for 'basic' dropsuit modules, though not relative to tanks, it is relative to the frustration induced by the current SP-Sink skill trees... 2 weeks to get adv modules, another 4 weeks to get prototype, in that span you could get 2 more advs to ACTUALLY make your dropsuit useful, then its nothing for a month... |
SuperKing BigNuts
Contract Hunters
109
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:SuperKing BigNuts wrote:
sort of what im thinking is something akin to a mobile wall rolling up providing cover for infantry to cross a killing field, while being able to provide 'effective' damage to opponents to deter other vehicles, primarily jeeps and close air support dropships
I think what you are asking for will be delievered with the introduction of MAV. A hardenered APC that will be able to roll into fortified areas, perhaps it will be only equipped with 1 small turret but having high resistance and EHP so I can get to where it needs to go and deliever its payload then egress out of the hot zone. Whatever the specifics of its design am sure it will be much more than a LAV capable of ferrying more than 3 people. As for HAV, I honestly hope they don't get more ehp. I would be in favour of them having more attack potential rather more defensive. I have seen them work, seen pilots go 25-0 and beyond with a blaster, the pilots know what they are doing and credit to their skill. They pose the proper threat level and warrant the proper response from the opposing team. Imagine HAV getting a mlt lav boost? Just damn right aweful sounding.
as far as the MAV, part of me thinks they should get a couple turrets or theyre just over glorified LAVs, drop ships get 2 turrets and can fly, a considerably more effective use of rapid transport, and they can generally fly out of range of infantry AV, and just inertia damp infantry down... MAV should hopefully be sturdy and provide some 'real' firepower compared to LAVs or what would the purpose in deploying them over FREE LAVs serve... which i would wager would be more agile than MAVs, still get a turret, and are FREE... MAV deserves at least 2-3 lights or a single large turret manned by a passenger with penalties to range/damage or targeting restrictions(like HAV nose turret) to prevent you from kiting HAVs(or god forbid an actual medium turret class to match the MEDIUM vehicle line) while being able to provide ACTUAL fire support for the infantry gettin dropped off |
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