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KolmTankisti JaKoer
Eesti Leegion
0
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Posted - 2013.06.01 09:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
Created a new char and trained AR to lvl 4 for GLU TAC = easymode.
Just fitted it on a free suit and voila, ISK and SP was flowing like mad. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
805
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Posted - 2013.06.01 10:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Why?
Give them zero SP and let them work for it. |
martinofski
Les Rebelles A Qc
167
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Posted - 2013.06.01 10:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Schalac 17 wrote:They should just remove the cap altogether. What purpose does it actually serve? A few months down the line no matter how much you grind you are always going to be behind the 8ball against those that have been in game since open beta with the cap in place. So get rid of it. People are still going to buy boosters because more is more, and cap or no cap someone is still going to grind more than you do. I suppose its so some people can't just blow by everyone and become some sort of ubergod.
It's partly to make the active booster more appealing. And reduce the expanding gap rate. Imagine the people playing enough to hit thecap on wednesday currently.
I agree for the academy, + increase the wp limit from 10k to something more meaningful. Or make a lvl 2 academy.
How, just make some good matchmaking already, would solve it. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
347
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Posted - 2013.06.01 11:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:i disagree, they should just start with 2 million SP.
Prices went up a lot with the new tree, starting SP should as well. I think the grind will help players learn the ropes and prevent newer players from just tossing their points into random skills. Also, it helps to prevent abuse of system.
I agree, making them play for a while is the best thing to do, 500K going to get you some descent fits. |
Turkevich
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
36
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Posted - 2013.06.01 11:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
With 500k skill points you can get standard gear on a militia frame. At 750k SP you can have a standard frame with an advanced weapon and maybe a couple advanced mods. By 1 million SP you are rocking a fit that can be competitive if you play smart. You can get to this point in the first month of playing this game. Why do you need to get there faster? |
Rogue Saint
Limited Liability
9
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Posted - 2013.06.01 11:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rollover cap doesn't solve anything for new players. I can pretty much guarantee that new players (if they like the game) will burn through the cap way before the reset and so will have nothing to rollover. Sure, once the "newness" of the game wears off for them they will have a nice pool of SP to chew at in matches, but I can guarantee that won't be for a few months, again, if the player stays around.
Getting into proto gear is a goal for many, but its pointless if you don't have the core skills to fit it, i.e. getting enhanced/complex mods, which costs way more than the weekly SP allowance.
Said it before, the main issue for new players is matchmaking, its total pants to be pubstomped, and those proto guys that have bad fittings are few and far between. |
Talruum Tezztarozza
Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS.
144
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:Rollover cap doesn't solve anything for new players. I can pretty much guarantee that new players (if they like the game) will burn through the cap way before the reset and so will have nothing to rollover. The idea of rollover SP we purpose is that it start counting since the START of the game for all character.
For example, If a veteran who play this game since day 1 (starting of open beta back in January) and hit a cap every week have 15mil SP. A new character created today will have 15mil cap to burn through. It may take him months, it may take him days to burn through all this cap. This way, new player have a chance to catch up with veteran.
Technically, I don't see a problem with it. We already have some sort SP cap in place. They just need to change from "if SP earned this week > 190k then you hit the cap" to "if total SP > 15mil(and increasing every week) then you hit the cap". I realize that it's more complicated than this but it's very doable.
Marketingly, very interesting, I never think of that. So If they need to rework active SP booster then so be it. Make it give bonus to set amount of SP or however you want. In my opinion, this will actually help layer burning through booster way faster. It should be good for CCP as well. |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
191
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Posted - 2013.06.01 15:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Talruum Tezztarozza wrote:Rogue Saint wrote:Rollover cap doesn't solve anything for new players. I can pretty much guarantee that new players (if they like the game) will burn through the cap way before the reset and so will have nothing to rollover. The idea of rollover SP we purpose is that it start counting since the START of the game for all character. For example, If a veteran who play this game since day 1 (starting of open beta back in January) and hit a cap every week have 15mil SP. A new character created today will have 15mil cap to burn through. It may take him months, it may take him days to burn through all this cap. This way, new player have a chance to catch up with veteran. Technically, I don't see a problem with it. We already have some sort SP cap in place. They just need to change from "if SP earned this week > 190k then you hit the cap" to "if total SP > 15mil(and increasing every week) then you hit the cap". I realize that it's more complicated than this but it's very doable. Marketingly, very interesting, I never think of that. So If they need to rework active SP booster then so be it. Make it give bonus to set amount of SP or however you want. In my opinion, this will actually help layer burning through booster way faster. It should be good for CCP as well. The only problem with that is, not everybody has been hitting the cap every week. I have nearly 13 million sp, but I know plenty of guys who only have 4-8 million.
If you allow new players a unlimited cap, then it kind of punishes the people who have been here, but couldn't always hit the cap.
Maybe if it was implement to a average, or just up to half of whatever people would have if they hit the cap everyweek (I guess like 6.5-7.5 million) |
Schalac 17
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
205
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Posted - 2013.06.01 15:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:Schalac 17 wrote:They should just remove the cap altogether. What purpose does it actually serve? A few months down the line no matter how much you grind you are always going to be behind the 8ball against those that have been in game since open beta with the cap in place. So get rid of it. People are still going to buy boosters because more is more, and cap or no cap someone is still going to grind more than you do. Because having a cap fosters players doing something other than straight killing all day. Without a cap, people wouldn't slow down to do more meaningful things like take control of a planet, because they are super worried about falling behind in skill points and must play every second they are on instead of forming a team and waiting for a PC match to start. Later, when they add more non-straight FPS action, this will be even more important as they may need to wait for EVE support for this added content, and some won't be bothered if that means taking 3 hours out of their 'grind' time. People complain about a grind all the time, without a cap of some sort, the grind never ends, ever. With a rolling cap, the newbies can put more effort in and get up to "pro" level of skill points faster. Which means more able bodies for all the extra content. No it doesn't. If people want to own planets they will own planets. Cap or no cap. Having a cap actually hurts the game more than it helps. It hurts new people when they try to catch up, and it hurts vets that need millions of SP to go to the next level. It is an arbitrary system that game developers put in to give the appearance of content or balance in a game. Control the growth of the character and you have to focus less on content or gear.
Also, when you don't have a cap, that is when the grind ends. See every wednesday it starts the grind. I have to log in to get my weekly fill of SP, if I don't I might miss out on maxing my bonus and then I fall behind. Where if you don't have a cap then it's, well I can't play right now but I am off all next week so I make up for it because I don't have to worry about running into the cap and missing out on earned SP.
Then when you reach a certain amount of SP anyway you don't really need to grind all that much because all you are doing is moving sideways, instead of up. Not having a cap would allow everyone to reach that plateau sooner. Which would make for a much better gaming experience for all involved because the battlefield will be much more balanced.
No, all the cap does in this game is give the appearance of content, slightly slows down the power grinders and widens the gap the newbies have to overcome to catch the older players. |
Rogue Saint
Limited Liability
9
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Posted - 2013.06.01 18:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Talruum Tezztarozza wrote:For example, If a veteran who play this game since day 1 (starting of open beta back in January) and hit a cap every week have 15mil SP. A new character created today will have 15mil cap to burn through. It may take him months, it may take him days to burn through all this cap. This way, new player have a chance to catch up with veteran..
I must have read the wrong thread or something, or misunderstood, or both! Thanks for the clarification
This sounds reasonable and will help new players.
I've been playing for just over a month and I'm restricted now to the types of role I can play because of my SP. I don't have the fittings or suits to go CQC so end up being a scout/sniper until I get the core skills up. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy being a scout, dropping uplinks, flanking behind enemy lines and capturing points, but it would be nice to be able to go toe-to-toe with an AR/SR or FoTM, but I can't so.
I have 3 chars, 3.3m, 2.5m, 2m SP and burn through my cap in no time, basically because I'm a WP ***** (in the constructive sense). For me to get into and properly fit a proto suit will take me months, which is fine of course, grind == MMO, but this won't matter if I'm still thrown against even higher spec'd players because of the broken matchmaking system.
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Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
268
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Posted - 2013.06.01 19:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
This is very similar to a suggestion I posted about how to stop AFK SP farming during matches. Although I didn't specifically mention it, the lifetime SP cap I was thinking was 2 million, so it's nice to see that most of us agree a decent build is attained around 2 million SP.
Here are the total changes I would like to see:
- Active Booster until 1 million SP.
- Unlimited SP gain until 2 million SP.
- Normal rate beyond 2 million SP.
- In-game passive SP until 2 million SP.
- Other in-game compensation beyond 2 million SP. (3x WP bonus? something else?)
- AND/OR Other compensation for lack of in-game passive SP. (+100,000 to weekly SP cap?)
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Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty EoN.
548
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Posted - 2013.06.01 21:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Matakage wrote:This is very similar to a suggestion I posted about how to stop AFK SP farming during matches. Although I didn't specifically mention it, the lifetime SP cap I was thinking was 2 million, so it's nice to see that most of us agree a decent build is attained around 2 million SP. Here are the total changes I would like to see:
- Active Booster until 1 million SP.
- Unlimited SP gain until 2 million SP.
- Normal rate beyond 2 million SP.
- In-game passive SP until 2 million SP.
- Other in-game compensation beyond 2 million SP. (3x WP bonus? something else?)
- AND/OR Other compensation for lack of in-game passive SP. (+100,000 to weekly SP cap?)
New players are the ones with the most incentive to buy boosters and AUR gear so why would CCP give boosters to new players for free? That is what you mean by 'active booster until 1 million SP', right?
And the faster they get the SP the less AUR gear will be bought, so why would that happen either? |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
196
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Posted - 2013.06.02 13:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
I think people will still buy boosters. |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
197
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Posted - 2013.06.03 15:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Good to be back ^_^ |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
491
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Posted - 2013.06.03 15:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:New recruits should be allowed to grind to 2 million sp, then they get sp on a normal rate.
Or we can give them a "permanent" booster till they hit 1 million, then they hit the normal rate but still gain SP at a unlimited rate till 2 million.
Only 2 mil? I'm good for uncapped all the way up to 7 million.
The common arguments here are that accounts will be "farmed". Grinding up to 7 million SP, even with uncapped active gain rate, is a daunting task. If players want to farm 7 million SP accounts, so be it. Letting new players get a taste of what Dust actually has to offer, rather than instantly hitting them with what can seem like an insurmountable grind, would hugely outweigh the negatives.
There's a very, very important caveat here: New players MUST be informed that they are receiving a bonus. They must be informed in a REALLY OBVIOUS way, so that the typical reaction isn't "why did this game just become super hard?" They'll know what's up before it happens.
As to the "people won't buy boosters" argument, I think that's a load of bollocks. Don't you think more people would buy AUR if they were, you know, playing the game for more than 2 rounds and not getting disgusted at their SP rate and apparent inability to enjoy the game simply because of gear? |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2013.06.03 15:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
I only just started playing, I'm sitting at about 1.2mil, I seem to get the job done (though I wouldn't say no to an extra 800k to bump up those dropsuit upgrade skills). |
Justin Tymes
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
135
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Posted - 2013.06.03 16:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
Except it won't do anything. That will get you to your basic role, but you won't be enjoying this game competitively until you hit 8 mill. Over 50% of the new players will be gone long before that happens. |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
199
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Posted - 2013.06.03 16:28:00 -
[48] - Quote
@Leither, I think the problem with 7 million, is the fact that it would take a long time to grind out.
Its nice, but like Shion Typhoon said, At 1.2 million he can get things done with his fit, but that extra 800k would really set him up nicely.
I think a 7 million cap would be a bit redundant, and I also believe that it would hurt booster sales.
Again, I'm not in disagreement with you. I just don't think it would be the best move for the game (though I'm all newer players for big getting a big boost) |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
199
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Posted - 2013.06.03 16:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:Except it won't do anything. That will get you to your basic role, but you won't be enjoying this game competitively until you hit 8 mill. Over 50% of the new players will be gone long before that happens. I don't think so, 2 million should get you into a advanced(maybe even proto) basic suit, and it should set you up with a good weapon setup and some core skills.
They won't be able to really branch out and try other fits till 3 or 4 million, or more likely they will focus on the class they set up and start to branch out at the 6-7 million mark.
So yeah, if they leave, they leave. But I think dust has enough staying power to get people in once they hit 2-3 million sp. |
Justin Tymes
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
135
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Posted - 2013.06.03 16:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Except it won't do anything. That will get you to your basic role, but you won't be enjoying this game competitively until you hit 8 mill. Over 50% of the new players will be gone long before that happens. I don't think so, 2 million should get you into a advanced(maybe even proto) basic suit, and it should set you up with a good weapon setup and some core skills. They won't be able to really branch out and try other fits till 3 or 4 million, or more likely they will focus on the class they set up and start to branch out at the 6-7 million mark. So yeah, if they leave, they leave. But I think dust has enough staying power to get people in once they hit 2-3 million sp.
2-3 Mill won't take you far, especially if we're talking about Logi. Electronics and Engineering are core skills that are vital, especially on a competitive level, and that's going to suck up 3 Mill right there. |
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Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
199
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Posted - 2013.06.03 17:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
To go proto, yes, 3 million is not too much.
If you only want 2-3 levels in each, then its more then enough. |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
201
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Posted - 2013.06.04 13:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
Its a beautiful morning. |
Onesimus Tarsus
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2013.06.04 13:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Totally and completely remove the cap system. Make protosuit kills only count for points against other protos (in other words, if a proto isn't killing another proto, he get nah-theeng) and STD and ADV kills on protos net 3x points. Pubstomps become no-wins for protos and the newies (the nice connotation of newbies) have a solid reason to scrap out. |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
202
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Posted - 2013.06.05 17:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
I don't think it would be good to remove the cap completely. I have a tough time hitting my cap in one week, even if it was gone, I still would maybe only grind a extra couple k on top.
Now I know what your thinking "perfect, ive been a few thousand short of a skill plenty of times, and wwaitingfor the reset is killing me" while I agree that it can be helpful sometimes, I don't think new players will take advantage of it, more I think vets will use it to totally make themselves ultra powerful. |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
203
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Posted - 2013.06.07 16:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lonely. |
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1924
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Posted - 2013.06.07 16:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:New recruits should be allowed to grind to 2 million sp, then they get sp on a normal rate.
Or we can give them a "permanent" booster till they hit 1 million, then they hit the normal rate but still gain SP at a unlimited rate till 2 million.
Hm |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
204
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Posted - 2013.06.08 15:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
XxWarlordxX97 wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:New recruits should be allowed to grind to 2 million sp, then they get sp on a normal rate.
Or we can give them a "permanent" booster till they hit 1 million, then they hit the normal rate but still gain SP at a unlimited rate till 2 million. Hm ? |
Henchmen21
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2013.06.08 15:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
While I agree with the OP. That would likely reduce demand for the merc packs. They want people to feel hopeless and by a pack so they can run free suits while they skill up. |
Washlee
Not Guilty EoN.
158
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
I like the rollover cap |
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