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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
Lunamaria Hawkeye
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
162
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Posted - 2013.05.23 16:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:AWOXING A pretty big topic around these parts and something a lot of people have different opinions on. To be clear we don't want to make this kind of gameplay impossible. However we want to give tools to corporations to help better manage these risks.
In the long term we want to build upon the roles system adding roles to restrict who can enter a battle, who can invite others to battles, and those types of things. That is going to take time but we feel something needs to be added sooner rather than later.
So in the short term we will be adding the ability for a corporation's CEO and directors to kick players on their team from the battle while in the warbarge. Once in the battle the kick option is no longer available.
District state upon capture With the release of planetary conquest when you conquered a district it would immediately be locked and you would have to wait 24 hours before you could do anything. There were several reasons for this including helping deal with the release of all the empty districts and giving the people who just lost the district a bit of a better chance to attack back; the purpose being generating more battles.
Upon monitoring how you guys use the system since release however you have proven there are ways to avoid the second reason and the first reason is... well not much of a concern now.
So we will be changing it so that when you take a district it is in an unlocked and online state instead of locked and online.
When we eventually add a new region we will come up with a better (hopefully :P ) and different way to handle that specific problem.
Just a quick update for you guys. You will however notice I didn't include any dates for this stuff. Basically we will get it out when we can, but these are things we are actively working on. So basically everything the blue donut coalition didnt want. I'm buying you sox and beers.
No worries, the donut shop will be out of business soon(tm) |
DeeJay One
BetaMax. CRONOS.
33
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Posted - 2013.05.23 16:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:
So basically everything the blue donut coalition didnt want.
I'm buying you sox and beers.
No worries, the donut shop will be out of business soon(tm)
Being replaced with another doughnut this time by another alliance? (sorry, I could help myself, as the doughnut is still pretty much a myth) |
DeeJay One
BetaMax. CRONOS.
33
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Posted - 2013.05.23 16:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:AWOXING In the long term we want to build upon the roles system adding roles to restrict who can enter a battle, who can invite others to battles, and those types of things. That is going to take time but we feel something needs to be added sooner rather than later.
So, even if it's role based in the future are you thinking of possible drawbacks for the corp kicking players in the battle? Like a diminished clone count after kicking someone? Or is kicking mid battle considered something that shouldn't be there for anything other than pub matches? (with FW/PC having only war barge kick) |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
425
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Posted - 2013.05.23 17:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:....
I would rather see the status quo maintained than a hot fix that doesn't fix anything; that historically runs the very real risk of becoming the new normal. ...
It would be seriously uncool if you let this quickfix become all you do for us.
I'd rather you did nothing now and just continued forward on proper roles.
FC for taking contracts and kicking players from matches.
Squad Leader for someone that CAN pull people into matches.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3991
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Posted - 2013.05.23 17:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:Samahiel wrote:....
I would rather see the status quo maintained than a hot fix that doesn't fix anything; that historically runs the very real risk of becoming the new normal. ...
It would be seriously uncool if you let this quickfix become all you do for us. I'd rather you did nothing now and just continued forward on proper roles. FC for taking contracts and kicking players from matches. Squad Leader for someone that CAN pull people into matches.
We are activly working on and planning an expansion of the corporation roles to help cover this. |
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martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
119
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Posted - 2013.05.23 17:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Edit: Holy blue posts batman, foxfour beat me to it The more blue posts the better! :D
Can you put some blue in here by the way?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80892 |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1237
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Posted - 2013.05.23 18:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
Hey you've got FW vets in this thread. They were given a small hotfix and told work would continue and yet the feature was abandoned for 2 years. I like the changes in OP, But I know where they ate coming from.
Please do your best to focus and deliver :) |
Lunamaria Hawkeye
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
162
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Posted - 2013.05.23 18:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:
So basically everything the blue donut coalition didnt want.
I'm buying you sox and beers.
No worries, the donut shop will be out of business soon(tm) Being replaced with another doughnut this time by another alliance? (sorry, I could help myself, as the doughnut is still pretty much a myth)
Donut shop will be replaced by all you can eat CRONOS tear buffet. |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
229
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Posted - 2013.05.23 18:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
As a short term fix this is workable but long term the roles need expanding considerably.
And to think there was a point in the development in Dust where roles were considered as not required... |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
33
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Posted - 2013.05.23 18:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: So in the short term we will be adding the ability for a corporation's CEO and directors to kick players on their team from the battle while in the warbarge. Once in the battle the kick option is no longer available.
I assume this only applies to Dust side directors and CEOs and not EVE directors and CEOs? |
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General John Ripper
187. Unclaimed.
284
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Long Live SoxFour! |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3997
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: So in the short term we will be adding the ability for a corporation's CEO and directors to kick players on their team from the battle while in the warbarge. Once in the battle the kick option is no longer available.
I assume this only applies to Dust side directors and CEOs and not EVE directors and CEOs?
Correct. You will have to be in the match to do it. |
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Abu Stij
Goonfeet
91
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
I didn't even get any love from you FoxFour.
Anyway, is there at least a rough timeline we can expect the director roles to become implemented in? The "hotfix" is not something that should stay longer than a very short amount of time. I can't imagine that taking the way director roles work in EVE and translating them to DUST is that hard save for a few areas.
Also CCP why you refuse to blue up my "Tools to Succeed" thread? It's because I'm Minmatar isn't it? |
Aeon Amadi
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
1364
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Be careful with this CCP.... You can't kick spies from a battle in Eve Online, you can only destroy them...
I don't have an issue with the AWOXing non-sense... I think it's a viable tactic that eventually will force corporations to own up to their mistakes and actively look at who they're recruiting rather than freely accepting everyone, which a lot of the bigger corporations do.
You should be focusing on implementing API keys instead of allowing directors/CEOs to up and kick someone from the battle PREVENTION, not REACTION. The entire premise of New Eden being dangerous is that you only trust the people who are at arms length and that should never change. |
Bling Blaine
FrontLine-Coalition
110
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Bling Blaine wrote:Bandaid covering a gash that requires over 500 stitches.
Lag is the 1st concern for PC not AWOXing, well that is what I believe. The performance concerns are being looked into by lots of people. Putting more people on it is not going to make a fix come any faster. The people best suited to working on a fix are doing so.
Im sorry I always thought more people fixing issues was better than few people fixing the issues. It really seems there are Not Enough people fixing the huge issues that are Plaguing the game. Not good IMO.
But hey at least you are implementing a kick option Whoah that must have been a lot of work? Loll |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4590
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 19:39:00 -
[46] - Quote
Remember awoxing will still be highly possible if you manage to sell the outside squad as a bunch of ringers you hired to fight on yourside. Awoxers will have to work harder, ringers would have to earn some level of trust to earn the right to back stab. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
33
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Be careful with this CCP.... You can't kick spies from a battle in Eve Online, you can only destroy them...
I don't have an issue with the AWOXing non-sense... I think it's a viable tactic that eventually will force corporations to own up to their mistakes and actively look at who they're recruiting rather than freely accepting everyone, which a lot of the bigger corporations do.
You should be focusing on implementing API keys instead of allowing directors/CEOs to up and kick someone from the battle PREVENTION, not REACTION. The entire premise of New Eden being dangerous is that you only trust the people who are at arms length and that should never change.
This is a good post. I support this product and/or service. |
Paradoxical Nature
Goonfeet
2
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Be careful with this CCP.... You can't kick spies from a battle in Eve Online, you can only destroy them...
I don't have an issue with the AWOXing non-sense... I think it's a viable tactic that eventually will force corporations to own up to their mistakes and actively look at who they're recruiting rather than freely accepting everyone, which a lot of the bigger corporations do.
You should be focusing on implementing API keys instead of allowing directors/CEOs to up and kick someone from the battle PREVENTION, not REACTION. The entire premise of New Eden being dangerous is that you only trust the people who are at arms length and that should never change. This is a good post. I support this product and/or service.
While you did mention it, CCP Nullarbor, it wasn't definitive which is where my disappointment with just 'kick' ing as a 'temporary' solution in the warbarge comes in. At the moment, it is already a minefield and requires immediate API release and Director and Corporation Management protections a la EvE Online as I played back in 'the day.'
To exemplify how much of a danger Dust Created Corps by Dust Characters are in danger because of this minefield and because of a lack of API and real delinted Director Roles here's an example.
Dust Merc 1 creates a corp within Dust using his Dust Character. He is now CEO and can create Directors. However, you cannot create a Director without making them a Full Director from Dust.
There is no way in which a Dust Character CEO can claim the Shares of a Corporation from Dust; something only Full Directors can do. .
Dust Merc 1, invites Eve Player 2 to his Dust Created Corp and, because he doesn't have access to his corp through an EvE Character, is forced to make the EvE player a Full Director.
EvE Player 2 is now a Full Director and, because of how much more intuitive it is in EvE he is able to claim all the shares of a Corporation and, effectively steal it from the Dust CEO, seizing control. Just because Dust Side Corporation Management is anemic.
This is something that needs immediate attention. |
Flambario Steelhammer
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
5
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
I hope it isn't a kick but a ban.
So you don't have to kick them then they just join again and again and again until the battle starts. And the squad you want in can't join because they bad guys use up the space. |
alten hilt
DUST University Ivy League
29
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Be careful with this CCP.... You can't kick spies from a battle in Eve Online, you can only destroy them...
I don't have an issue with the AWOXing non-sense... I think it's a viable tactic that eventually will force corporations to own up to their mistakes and actively look at who they're recruiting rather than freely accepting everyone, which a lot of the bigger corporations do.
You should be focusing on implementing API keys instead of allowing directors/CEOs to up and kick someone from the battle PREVENTION, not REACTION. The entire premise of New Eden being dangerous is that you only trust the people who are at arms length and that should never change.
IMHO, your comparison is flawed, and will be flawed, until such a time as DUST becomes an open-world sandbox. If that day comes, then I can see your point that a corp can only limit someone from entering the battlefield if they can fight them off.
Currently PC battles are like gentleman's duals. Two sides agree to fight at a specified time, location, with a limited amount of mercs and clones, for a limited amount of time. Both sides agree to abide by the results of the dual until the next dual is arranged. All other corps are prevented from interfering. After the dual is arranged, the corporation supplies the clones, and the clone spawning mechanism that allows mercenaries to join a battle. So it makes sense that a director in the corporation can prevent someone from entering the battle, or cut them off from more clones once the battle starts. This is very similar to having access controls on corporate hangers or on the Player Owned Starbase. Would you argue that an EVE corporation should not be able to restrict access to corporate assets? Because that is honestly what it sounds like you are saying.
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Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
373
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Be careful with this CCP.... You can't kick spies from a battle in Eve Online, you can only destroy them...
I don't have an issue with the AWOXing non-sense... I think it's a viable tactic that eventually will force corporations to own up to their mistakes and actively look at who they're recruiting rather than freely accepting everyone, which a lot of the bigger corporations do.
You should be focusing on implementing API keys instead of allowing directors/CEOs to up and kick someone from the battle PREVENTION, not REACTION. The entire premise of New Eden being dangerous is that you only trust the people who are at arms length and that should never change. When you can make unlimited free accounts, API keys as a preventative security measure get a lot less effective.
Honestly, the roles thing is probably the best solution there is, since it requires potential awoxers to actually earn some measure of trust, and can't be dodged by making a new account. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
33
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
alten hilt wrote:
IMHO, your comparison is flawed, and will be flawed, until such a time as DUST becomes an open-world sandbox. If that day comes, then I can see your point that a corp can only limit someone from entering the battlefield if they can fight them off.
Currently PC battles are like gentleman's duals. Two sides agree to fight at a specified time, location, with a limited amount of mercs and clones, for a limited amount of time. Both sides agree to abide by the results of the dual until the next dual is arranged. All other corps are prevented from interfering. After the dual is arranged, the corporation supplies the clones, and the clone spawning mechanism that allows mercenaries to join a battle. So it makes sense that a director in the corporation can prevent someone from entering the battle, or cut them off from more clones once the battle starts. This is very similar to having access controls on corporate hangers or on the Player Owned Starbase. Would you argue that an EVE corporation should not be able to restrict access to corporate assets? Because that is honestly what it sounds like you are saying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbar_Fight Tell me again about how Gentleman's "duels" are supposed to work out? Though actually I would be really happy if I could jump the guys as they leave a district fight and accidentally shoot Jim Bowie.
Edit: The part of Jim Bowie would of course be played by Free Beers. |
Sontie
Ill Omens EoN.
398
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
Thank you foxfour.
Promises are not important. Date are not important.
Regular communication is. Treating us likes friends and allies, throwing us small bones of information, making us feel important; these things can be done with just a few paragraphs each week. And forum warriors like myself will spread the word to all our friends in-game. It will keep community moral up and everyone will be happier for it.
So again, thank you. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
33
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Sontie wrote:Thank you foxfour.
Promises are not important. Date are not important.
Regular communication is. Treating us likes friends and allies, throwing us small bones of information, making us feel important; these things can be done with just a few paragraphs each week. And forum warriors like myself will spread the word to all our friends in-game. It will keep community moral up and everyone will be happier for it.
So again, thank you.
Regular communication is the most vital aspect in all this, and though I disagree with your particular approach on this one issue, I am extremely happy with the unprecedented level of feedback and dialogue you have established.
That was directed at CCP FoxFour, not sontie. I'm sure Sontie's cool too, probably. |
alten hilt
DUST University Ivy League
29
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Posted - 2013.05.23 21:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:alten hilt wrote:
IMHO, your comparison is flawed, and will be flawed, until such a time as DUST becomes an open-world sandbox. If that day comes, then I can see your point that a corp can only limit someone from entering the battlefield if they can fight them off.
Currently PC battles are like gentleman's duals. Two sides agree to fight at a specified time, location, with a limited amount of mercs and clones, for a limited amount of time. Both sides agree to abide by the results of the dual until the next dual is arranged. All other corps are prevented from interfering. After the dual is arranged, the corporation supplies the clones, and the clone spawning mechanism that allows mercenaries to join a battle. So it makes sense that a director in the corporation can prevent someone from entering the battle, or cut them off from more clones once the battle starts. This is very similar to having access controls on corporate hangers or on the Player Owned Starbase. Would you argue that an EVE corporation should not be able to restrict access to corporate assets? Because that is honestly what it sounds like you are saying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbar_FightTell me again about how Gentleman's "duels" are supposed to work out? Though actually I would be really happy if I could jump the guys as they leave a district fight and accidentally shoot Jim Bowie. Edit: The part of Jim Bowie would of course be played by Free Beers. Post Script: Though sarcastic I'm trying to say that this idea of honorable combat between two entities is hog wash and has no place in New Eden. The culture of E-Bushido was one of the worst things about the early EVE culture, and was primarily a tool used by the powerful to deny asymetric warfare tactics to the new comer or the small competitor. Either through threat of social ostracism or lobbying of developers. Post Post Script: I am the Lorax; I speak for the Trees Newbies!
I'm not advocating the system, I am simply pointing out that this IS the system in DUST. It is forced upon us by the nature of the mechanics. Corporation control over corporation assets is in line with EVE mechanics.
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CCP Cognac
C C P C C P Alliance
47
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Posted - 2013.05.23 21:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
Paradoxical Nature wrote:Samahiel wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Be careful with this CCP.... You can't kick spies from a battle in Eve Online, you can only destroy them...
I don't have an issue with the AWOXing non-sense... I think it's a viable tactic that eventually will force corporations to own up to their mistakes and actively look at who they're recruiting rather than freely accepting everyone, which a lot of the bigger corporations do.
You should be focusing on implementing API keys instead of allowing directors/CEOs to up and kick someone from the battle PREVENTION, not REACTION. The entire premise of New Eden being dangerous is that you only trust the people who are at arms length and that should never change. This is a good post. I support this product and/or service. While you did mention it, CCP Nullarbor, it wasn't definitive which is where my disappointment with just 'kick' ing as a 'temporary' solution in the warbarge comes in. At the moment, it is already a minefield and requires immediate API release as well as Director and Corporation Management protections a la EvE Online. Having come to appreciate them when I played back in 'the day.' To exemplify how much of a danger Dust Created Corps by Dust Characters are in because of this minefield and because of a lack of API and real delineated Director Roles here's an example. Dust Merc 1 creates a corp within Dust using his Dust Character. He is now CEO and can create Directors. However, you cannot create a Director without making them a Full Director from Dust. There is no way in which a Dust Character CEO can claim the Shares of a Corporation from Dust; something only Full Directors can do. . Dust Merc 1, invites Eve Player 2 to his Dust Created Corp and, because he doesn't have access to his corp through an EvE Character, is forced to make the EvE player a Full Director. EvE Player 2 is now a Full Director and, because of how much more intuitive it is in EvE he is able to claim all the shares of a Corporation and, effectively steal it from the Dust CEO, seizing control. Just because Dust Side Corporation Management is anemic. This is something that needs immediate attention.
When you create a new corporation with a dust character the shares of the corporation are automatically moved to his character to prevent exactly this, it has been this way since corporation were introduced into Dust. This however does not apply when a Dust character gets appointed CEO to an already established corporation.
When the Dust Ceo then resigns the shares are either moved to the corporation again( if new Ceo is an Eve character) or to the new Ceo( if is dust character).
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
33
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Posted - 2013.05.23 21:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Cognac wrote: When you create a new corporation with a dust character the shares of the corporation are automatically moved to his character to prevent exactly this, it has been this way since corporation were introduced into Dust. This however does not apply when a Dust character gets appointed CEO to an already established corporation.
When the Dust Ceo then resigns the shares are either moved to the corporation again( if new Ceo is an Eve character) or to the new Ceo( if is dust character).
As an ex-software developer the idea that you're linking two different code bases for corporate role management, one of which is ten year old legacy code, and not mirroring functionality or the ability to scrap and rewrite the legacy system is making my eye twitch. That just sounds like a Kraken of a design problem that's only going to get harder to fix the longer you wait. I do not envy you guys your position at all. |
Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted Gentlemen's Agreement
75
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Posted - 2013.05.23 22:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Cognac wrote:Paradoxical Nature wrote:Samahiel wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Be careful with this CCP.... You can't kick spies from a battle in Eve Online, you can only destroy them...
I don't have an issue with the AWOXing non-sense... I think it's a viable tactic that eventually will force corporations to own up to their mistakes and actively look at who they're recruiting rather than freely accepting everyone, which a lot of the bigger corporations do.
You should be focusing on implementing API keys instead of allowing directors/CEOs to up and kick someone from the battle PREVENTION, not REACTION. The entire premise of New Eden being dangerous is that you only trust the people who are at arms length and that should never change. This is a good post. I support this product and/or service. While you did mention it, CCP Nullarbor, it wasn't definitive which is where my disappointment with just 'kick' ing as a 'temporary' solution in the warbarge comes in. At the moment, it is already a minefield and requires immediate API release as well as Director and Corporation Management protections a la EvE Online. Having come to appreciate them when I played back in 'the day.' To exemplify how much of a danger Dust Created Corps by Dust Characters are in because of this minefield and because of a lack of API and real delineated Director Roles here's an example. Dust Merc 1 creates a corp within Dust using his Dust Character. He is now CEO and can create Directors. However, you cannot create a Director without making them a Full Director from Dust. There is no way in which a Dust Character CEO can claim the Shares of a Corporation from Dust; something only Full Directors can do. . Dust Merc 1, invites Eve Player 2 to his Dust Created Corp and, because he doesn't have access to his corp through an EvE Character, is forced to make the EvE player a Full Director. EvE Player 2 is now a Full Director and, because of how much more intuitive it is in EvE he is able to claim all the shares of a Corporation and, effectively steal it from the Dust CEO, seizing control. Just because Dust Side Corporation Management is anemic. This is something that needs immediate attention. When you create a new corporation with a dust character the shares of the corporation are automatically moved to his character to prevent exactly this, it has been this way since corporation were introduced into Dust. This however does not apply when a Dust character gets appointed CEO to an already established corporation. When the Dust Ceo then resigns the shares are either moved to the corporation again( if new Ceo is an Eve character) or to the new Ceo( if is dust character).
This doesn't seem to be the case, and it's impossible to assign shares to a DUST character with the EVE client. Meaning even if what you claim is true, a corp becomes vulnerable the moment an EVE character is temporarily the CEO. |
Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted Gentlemen's Agreement
75
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Posted - 2013.05.23 22:06:00 -
[59] - Quote
Corps in alliances had to temporarily transfer CEO to EVE characters. That means, the shares would've been released into the corp pool, but not returned to the DUSTie when re-promoted to CEO. Which means every DUST corp in an alliance is vulnerable. And no, not every corp has an EVE character they trust with permanent ownership of shares. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4002
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Posted - 2013.05.23 23:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
Flambario Steelhammer wrote:I hope it isn't a kick but a ban.
So you don't have to kick them then they just join again and again and again until the battle starts. And the squad you want in can't join because they bad guys use up the space.
It's a kick and ban from that battle. |
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