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Nordac Striker
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
One of the complaints that I had with Planetside 2 was that in some ways it just did not feel like a futuristic FPS game. Most of the equipment used just seemed like no better than what we have in the present day military... and sometimes even worse. PS2 just did not have that futuristic feel that I would have expected.
I will give Dust some credit here, as it does feel like the future... except for iron sights. In the future, I do not see a place for iron sights at all. I would think that every weapon would at least have some sort of sighting device that was a tad better... even if it was a simple x2 sight. Perhaps even a red indicator when aiming in on an enemy soldier. But I am sorry... the iron sights in Dust just seem so out of place... just not the right feel for me.
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Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
604
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Iron/default Sites will never go away you twack. You need a default aiming object in place always. We will get different sites and other **** like that soon, it just hasn't come in yet. |
Nordac Striker
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for the name calling... great conversational encouragement... or did I use too big of words here for you to understand?
...and what makes you think iron sights will not go away eventually? Seems a bit presumptuous. Oh there I go again with the big words again... sorry. |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
127
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just wait till we are able to attach new sights to our weapons and customize the hell out of it.
I prefer iron sights, just because of personal preference. Though, I do agree that the acog site should look a little more futuristic.
My squad mates mentioned it to me, and ever since I can't help but not like it. |
Gunhilda Zetter
DUST University Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm inclined to argue that irons sights will never go away because you need a failsafe option in case your battery/powerplant dies, but since most modern DSLR cameras don't have a backup because the if the battery dies the camera dies, I'm therefore inclined to agree.
More likely is that in the future no weapons will ever miss, or battles will be conducted at extreme ranges (a la Forever War), but that wouldn't be much fun. |
Boxoffire
Lost-Legion Orion Empire
62
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would say weapons will always have iron sights. What if somewhere to happen that they would stop working. I mean CCP did say later electronic warfare will come to Dust, what if some of the features disabled some of players equipment including the special sights.
Costume able parts will be coming in the future, most likely the far future, but just about every weapon will have a call futuristic sight. For now, I would probably say the SMG has the most futristic sight, and one of my favorites in the game. |
Boxoffire
Lost-Legion Orion Empire
62
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Though, I do agree that the acog site should look a little more futuristic. Hmm I haven't seen the a of since when all the ARs had them. Wonder how they look now. From your description I sort of picture it being exactly like the ones from CoD |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
178
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well I like iron sights in certain close-quarters situations. I actually think it is kind of funny the SMG has the flip-up halo thing since it is not even necessary with the limited range it has but whatever.
Iron sights should not disappear entirely and not the "no battery" reason lol. Current gen ACOG sights do not use batteries, they use simple magnification and light to highlight the reticle. They have a place in infantry combat. However, I hope we do start to see more sight options soon. |
Nordac Striker
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thanks for the replies... greatly appreciated.
What strikes me is when I see the battle film footage of Iraq and Afghanistan. It would seem that most have a basic x4(?) scope on their rifles... or at least most do. Even with the power sights that the future may hold, perhaps there could be a backup system that would default to a x2 system when there is no power. I have been in the military too long and on too many government contracts to not believe that the military would insist on some sort of backup here. But then, Dust is only a game.
As I said before, this is more about 'feel', rather than actual practicality. Again, first impressions for new players mean a lot. Coming into a futuristic game and being confronted by iron sights 'may' give the wrong impression.
What I see at the moment is the Dust dropsuit as an Eve spaceship. I have played Eve now for 5 years, and this is what I see here in Dust. Perhaps later, as Dust matures and we can customize our weapons to more detail, things will be better. We will see.
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Nordac Striker
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Well I like iron sights in certain close-quarters situations.
What I am finding is that at close range, firing from the hip can be more desirable than using the sights anyway. Accuracy will surely suffer, but at close range, does it really matter that much? I have found that in close combat [in most FPS's I have been in recently] that RPM and how fast one starts shooting makes the big difference. It is not until one gets back away from the bad guys, that sights really make a difference.
The one big advantage of iron sights is the ability to see what is happening around one... where a scope type sight limits one's peripheral vision. So in close combat, where situational awareness is paramount, an iron sight may be the best. One thing I was taught was to fire 1" above the sight, so one does see more of what is going on around them. However, I have yet to see any FPS game model that. Perhaps that is another feature for the future.
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1579
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nordac Striker wrote:One of the complaints that I had with Planetside 2 was that in some ways it just did not feel like a futuristic FPS game. Most of the equipment used just seemed like no better than what we have in the present day military... and sometimes even worse. PS2 just did not have that futuristic feel that I would have expected.
I will give Dust some credit here, as it does feel like the future... except for iron sights. In the future, I do not see a place for iron sights at all. I would think that every weapon would at least have some sort of sighting device that was a tad better... even if it was a simple x2 sight. Perhaps even a red indicator when aiming in on an enemy soldier. But I am sorry... the iron sights in Dust just seem so out of place... just not the right feel for me.
The problem is that many shooter players can't work with the camera scopes we had before, especially when they changed them to no longer show your weapon in the view.
Honestly, I'd love to see camera sights come back, but ironsights are never going away. Some people still insist on playing with them, and they'd throw a collective fit if they were removed.
All we need is the Replication and E3 style sights that have the front of the gun visible at the bottom of the frame, so that these other guys aren't complaining of "disconnect" and "not feeling immersed". |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
178
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nordac Striker wrote:Thanks for the replies... greatly appreciated.
What strikes me is when I see the battle film footage of Iraq and Afghanistan. It would seem that most have a basic x4(?) scope on their rifles... or at least most do. Even with the power sights that the future may hold, perhaps there could be a backup system that would default to a x2 system when there is no power. I have been in the military too long and on too many government contracts to not believe that the military would insist on some sort of backup here. But then, Dust is only a game.
As I said before, this is more about 'feel', rather than actual practicality. Again, first impressions for new players mean a lot. Coming into a futuristic game and being confronted by iron sights 'may' give the wrong impression.
What I see at the moment is the Dust dropsuit as an Eve spaceship. I have played Eve now for 5 years, and this is what I see here in Dust. Perhaps later, as Dust matures and we can customize our weapons to more detail, things will be better. We will see.
Most Army infantry carry M4 with M68 Red Dot sight (no magnification)...usually a few AGOGs (4 or 3.5x) mixed into each Squad. I think the Marines all have AGOGs.
Both are generally ignored in CQC engagement as "Gunfighter" training teaches point shooting at close quarters. Unfortunately FPS game mechanics are limited to hip fire, which isn't even realistic LOL, and ADS (aim down sights). There is no way to really incorporate instinctive point shooting into gameplay...at least, no one has thought of a way to do it yet. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1579
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 17:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Nordac Striker wrote:Thanks for the replies... greatly appreciated.
What strikes me is when I see the battle film footage of Iraq and Afghanistan. It would seem that most have a basic x4(?) scope on their rifles... or at least most do. Even with the power sights that the future may hold, perhaps there could be a backup system that would default to a x2 system when there is no power. I have been in the military too long and on too many government contracts to not believe that the military would insist on some sort of backup here. But then, Dust is only a game.
As I said before, this is more about 'feel', rather than actual practicality. Again, first impressions for new players mean a lot. Coming into a futuristic game and being confronted by iron sights 'may' give the wrong impression.
What I see at the moment is the Dust dropsuit as an Eve spaceship. I have played Eve now for 5 years, and this is what I see here in Dust. Perhaps later, as Dust matures and we can customize our weapons to more detail, things will be better. We will see.
Most Army infantry carry M4 with M68 Red Dot sight (no magnification)...usually a few AGOGs (4 or 3.5x) mixed into each Squad. I think the Marines all have AGOGs. Both are generally ignored in CQC engagement as "Gunfighter" training teaches point shooting at close quarters. Unfortunately FPS game mechanics are limited to hip fire, which isn't even realistic LOL, and ADS (aim down sights). There is no way to really incorporate instinctive point shooting into gameplay...at least, no one has thought of a way to do it yet. The closest you can probably get is using the Move Sharpshooter. I'm not sure there'd be any way to implement that with sticks or a mouse. |
Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
310
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Iron sights are timeless. I mean even today we could put an optic on every gun if we wanted to, but we don't. Iron sights still have their own unique advantages and aren't going away anytime soon, even in 20,000 years.
I actually prefer iron sights on my guns anyways. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1408
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
What we need is V.A.T.S., Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting System |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
79
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Iron/default Sites will never go away you twack. You need a default aiming object in place always. We will get different sites and other **** like that soon, it just hasn't come in yet. I agree with him that you might be a bit intellectually challenged, considering you answered the question as if he proposed removing sights (that's right, SIGHTS) altogether. And there's that word that keeps coming up all the time... soon.
Cody Sietz wrote:Just wait till we are able to attach new sights to our weapons and customize the hell out of it. I have always thought this is completely unnecessary. Just give us some normal ACOGs or red-dot sights and call it a day. Why would we want CCP to create like 6 new models for each gun and a whole new customization menu when there are so many other important things to add in this game? Just put some decent sights on there instead of ironsights.
Gunhilda Zetter wrote:I'm inclined to argue that irons sights will never go away because you need a failsafe option in case your battery/powerplant dies, but since most modern DSLR cameras don't have a backup because the if the battery dies the camera dies, I'm therefore inclined to agree. We're in cybernetic suits with their own internal power source. You seriously think the technology to keep a dot sight powered doesn't exist..?
Boxoffire wrote:I would say weapons will always have iron sights. What if somewhere to happen that they would stop working. I mean CCP did say later electronic warfare will come to Dust, what if some of the features disabled some of players equipment including the special sights. This sort of risk vs. reward mechanic is exactly what would make electronic warfare effective and fun. Let's say you have the choice between a gun with ironsights and a gun with a powered red-dot sight (RDS). The RDS is more useful for target acquisition, but if you get hit with an EMP, you can't see the dot anymore. If you chose the ironsights, this wouldn't have happened. The RDS is a risk you took that may or may not pay off in every situation. Choices are good. Risk vs. reward is awesome. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4411
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
EMP sucks as do computer hacks.
Some of the best Special Forces in New Eden before the clones arrived had a large selection of Minmatar weaponry available. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
290
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:What we need is V.A.T.S., Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting System No. Just no. |
Nirwanda Vaughns
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
45
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
if the ARs were minmatar iron sights are about right, since they're gallentean i feel a little let down even more so that all the AR models have a scope on them these days |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
290
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:EMP sucks as do computer hacks.
Some of the best Special Forces in New Eden before the clones arrived had a large selection of Minmatar weaponry available. Oh yeah, in Templar one all of the black eagle team's weaponry got disabled by the emp. Damn that must suck tremendously. |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1408
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:What we need is V.A.T.S., Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting System No. Just no. - x - = + |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
127
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Boxoffire wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Though, I do agree that the acog site should look a little more futuristic. Hmm I haven't seen the a of since when all the ARs had them. Wonder how they look now. From your description I sort of picture it being exactly like the ones from CoD Yeah, its pretty basic. I guess sometimes the oldies are the goodies.
At least they could put a range in indicator built into the scope so we can tell how far a target is.
That way we could relay enemies positions to squad mates a little more accurately. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4411
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
We also been in space for 400 years. we're not that 'future-istic' |
Byozuma Kegawa
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
41
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
What gets me about weapon sights isn't so much the weapons but the drop suits. Only a Minmatar suits have reasonable placed 'eyes' but even then it's not on the side where the weapon is held. The other suits have the 'eyes' in odd places, like on the cheeks (and forehead) with the Amarr and all over the cheeks with the Gallente. The Caldari don't even have them on the face! So where are we holding the sights against?
Honestly, if we can hack a secure network from 1m away with our onboard computers, why can't we sight down built-in weapon cameras? You know, when we press the aim button, instead of the weapon rising to our face our vision switches to an over-the-barrel view allowing us to see from the weapon's perspective. Imagine looking around a corner with just our weapon. And frankly, this isn't a new thing, the US military (and no doubt other countries) have been developing battlefield systems that do just that for the past few years.
Come on, the much distant future is being showed up by a bunch of military engineers in an aluminium shed! With a box of scraps! |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
127
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:We also been in space for 400 years. we're not that 'future-istic' Come on, we can hurl hot bolts of plasma at super speed and make super clone soldiers but we can't figure out a future scope.
Come onnnnnnnnn.
...please don't ban me. |
Nordac Striker
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.05.19 18:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thank you all for the good discussion... again, much appreciated,
Based on the conversation here, I now understand that iron sights are important to some and that they should not be removed from the game. Also, I think it is important that weapons should be more customizable here. Running the same module system that CCP runs on Eve Ships just does not work here, imo. Having to give up a high or low slot to mount a scope may not be the answer, as I see that coming based on the current system. I am not sure how feasible it would be to add another level of customization just for the weapons, but I think it would add to the game. Thus if one wished to use iron sights, they have the ability by just not mounting any sights on the weapon. |
crazy space 1
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
1202
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Posted - 2013.05.19 18:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
How about iron sights with a pop up hologram display?
Not as good as a scope, same as now but , it'll LOOK more fancy and maybe help a bit with aiming just by having more thing s pointing at the middle of the screen I guess.
I really don't think a scope is necessary for any non-zoom sort of aiming. But we can have non zoomed, fancy looking iron sights. More tron **** as we say at my work haha. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
76
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Posted - 2013.05.19 18:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nordac Striker wrote:Thanks for the name calling... great conversational encouragement... or did I use too big of words here for you to understand?
...and what makes you think iron sights will not go away eventually? Seems a bit presumptuous. Oh there I go again with the big words again... sorry.
Iron sights are a cheap and effective way of providing simple sighting for infantry. By today's standards, the basic design hasn't changed for a hundred years, except these days, we have the ability to illuminate them for low-light conditions. That's the only advance we've made. These are weapons that are designed to be cheap and disposable. Anything other than iron sights on the front line of a battlefield is just an expensive loss waiting to happen. Of course, eventually, you'll be able to customise these weapons a little as well, so you'll be able to choose what you're willing to lose each time you die, and how much it's going to cost.
FYI, a soldier that can learn to aim with iron sights alone will become a better marksman faster than if he or she starts with scoping equipment. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1281
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Posted - 2013.05.19 18:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
A lot of people are saying, "just wait...it's coming", but how long do we have to wait?? What kind of shooter releases a game without the ability to attach sights??
What bugs me out is that they place one on the scrambler rifle but can not put one on a regular gun? Why is it all or nothing? Why is it camera sights or no sights? I've seen trailers with sights on the ARs...where are they? The game is released for QQ'ing out loud |
crazy space 1
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
1202
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Posted - 2013.05.19 18:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jaron Pollard wrote:Nordac Striker wrote:Thanks for the name calling... great conversational encouragement... or did I use too big of words here for you to understand?
...and what makes you think iron sights will not go away eventually? Seems a bit presumptuous. Oh there I go again with the big words again... sorry. Iron sights are a cheap and effective way of providing simple sighting for infantry. By today's standards, the basic design hasn't changed for a hundred years, except these days, we have the ability to illuminate them for low-light conditions. That's the only advance we've made. These are weapons that are designed to be cheap and disposable. Anything other than iron sights on the front line of a battlefield is just an expensive loss waiting to happen. Of course, eventually, you'll be able to customise these weapons a little as well, so you'll be able to choose what you're willing to lose each time you die, and how much it's going to cost. FYI, a soldier that can learn to aim with iron sights alone will become a better marksman faster than if he or she starts with scoping equipment.
SEE, the iron sights should do that. More future stuff! I agree 100% with op but not on how to get there. You hit it on the spot though, the design hasn't changed but we've made advances. So, art team go! |
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