OHMYGODHEUSEDTHETWORD. Head for the hills!

In all seriousness, I just want to start some tank players and AV players chatting about the average speed of the HAV. I find it to be a bit fast, and if they decided to add some HitPoints to them in exchange for some speed, I'd like that. Thing is, I'm not a tank pilot anymore, nor am I the Forge Gunner I used to be, so I have no say in the matter beyond 'that guy that got gun down by a tank that one time' so lets get the ball rolling.

They don't actually move that fast, man. I was actually somewhat impressed that tanks in this game can move at a reasonable speed, unlike in so many other shooters that feature them.

The other factor is how long it takes them to accelerate. They aren't exactly nimble enough to evade your Plasma Cannon shot from point-blank, if that's what you're worried about.

Also, the last thing we need is any vehicle suffering a speed reduction while the Forge Gun is still practically instant-hit and capable of 2-3 shotting any HAV if you use the Breach.

I see you edited the OP, and I am ALL about some webs.

If they put in capacitors for vehicles, I'd love to see cap-drain grenades too.

Ewar would add a lot more spice to the combat.

Long long time ago well before the chomosome CCP Wolfman did mention a webifier mine.

I would like to see it implemented like the rep/transfer from a vehicle and small less powerful mine types. Vehicle drivers and infantry could work together and make it difficult for other vehicles.

You want your tank to have more HP at the cost of speed.

Have you heard of "Armour Plates" yet?

They're wonderful things, take up a low slot. They give you extra HP at the cost of speed. Check them out sometime.

You want your tank to have more HP at the cost of speed.

Have you heard of "Armour Plates" yet?

They're wonderful things, take up a low slot. They give you extra HP at the cost of speed. Check them out sometime.

You want your tank to have more HP at the cost of speed.

Have you heard of "Armour Plates" yet?

They're wonderful things, take up a low slot. They give you extra HP at the cost of speed. Check them out sometime.

They are still to fast compared to tanks today, that's ok but since tanks are so fast we need equipment that webs

I don't want 'my' tank to have more EHP in exchange for speed. How about you read the entire OP before you try to feed your like received e-peen?

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't intending for that post to be taken seriously.

I'm kind of overdue on sleep right now. I'm sometimes a bit more stupid than usual in this state. I'll try and have a more sensible reply for you later. And yes, I did read the whole post, but I'll admit I'm a bit hazy on the details right now, which is why I didn't give you a sensible reply yet.

To add to the webbie discussion I think they would be great. I personally would like to see them in 2 flavors. The first being a deployable much like a (haven't played eve in forever so this may be wrong) warp scrambler. It would be destroyable but could beplaced ontop of a low building or behind an object preventing the tank from ppopping it. This one could be a low penalty, like 15% max speed debuf Iinside of its radius of say 10m, skilling into them could increase the radius maybe.The second would be a weapon slot variant. I would say light slot similar to a webbifier in eve. This version I would say max range 60 m with a massive 50% speed debuff. It should have an overheat type limiting factor. I would think 10 seconds worth of active time and a 15 second cooldown. If the target breaks range or los the effect breaks. Weapon must stay aimed at the hit box for effect to stay active

I'm a forge gunner. From my point of view tank speed is fine. I use a 9k330 most times which can take out tanks fairly well. Especially in combo with an av grenade or two. At range though tanks most times can duck and cover before I can pop the cherry. Unless they are mlt then they are toast. To me that is the right balance. As a tanker if you get close enough to get grenaded you are doing it wrong or you just got out played, learn from the loss. If you are at range and are fitted well you should survive long enough to find cover. If you can't you probably got out played. I still think tanks could use a slight buff to hp. Maybe not base but give them slightly better plates and extenders. I should not be chasing away a proto fit tank solo. It should take 2 av or 1 full protoav to scare a proto tank and 2 proto or 3+ av to destroy one.

OHMYGODHEUSEDTHETWORD. Head for the hills!

In all seriousness, I just want to start some tank players and AV players chatting about the average speed of the HAV. I find it to be a bit fast, and if they decided to add some HitPoints to them in exchange for some speed, I'd like that. Thing is, I'm not a tank pilot anymore, nor am I the Forge Gunner I used to be, so I have no say in the matter beyond 'that guy that got gun down by a tank that one time' so lets get the ball rolling.

Or at least, can we discuss the uses of Stasis Webbifiers in the context of DUST514? Maybe Equipment, maybe a vehicle module? A mine? A repair tool like device? A sidearm?

With speed governors removed, the M1A2 Abrams travels up to 100km/hr. Tanks on this game have less speed and armor than they should. Do not introduce webifiers BC that'll kill tanks ability to get away and with 6000HP, they'll be obsolete. Until we have tanks that can fit 10,000 HP and reppers/boosters, webifiers cannot be added; nor can speed be reduced AGAIN. Those of us whostill tank barely manage to keep our vehicles alive when there is ANY AV around. We need speed. We need more speed if we cacan't have HP.

Your argument against having webbifiers is that they'd get you killed? That's kinda the point. In EVE we have tacklers who are supposed to bum rush a target and put a 'point and web' on them, which means they need to put a point of Warp Scrambler on the target along with a Stasis Webbifier to prevent the target from warping out and flying freely. If the enemy is coordinated enough to do such, you deserve death, and you deserve it swiftly. To put it in DUST terms if you let an infantry guy stroll up to you and web you, you deserve to be shelled into the ground. This module probably won't even give any kind of WP if DShips are anything to go by so the only people using them will be the same that use DShips: those that want to win/have a deepseated hatred of tanks.

In short, we need these tools to help kill you. Saying we don't need them because they'd help kill you is mildly dumb.

At the moment, you DON'T need those tools to kill tanks.

That's the problem. If and when we get Webifiers, tanks will need something extra to balance them out.

Don't tanks have afterburners?

With speed governors removed, the M1A2 Abrams travels up to 100km/hr. Tanks on this game have less speed and armor than they should. Do not introduce webifiers BC that'll kill tanks ability to get away and with 6000HP, they'll be obsolete. Until we have tanks that can fit 10,000 HP and reppers/boosters, webifiers cannot be added; nor can speed be reduced AGAIN. Those of us whostill tank barely manage to keep our vehicles alive when there is ANY AV around. We need speed. We need more speed if we cacan't have HP.

Not if they want to survive more than one Forge Gunner.

I'm not quite getting it. They'd need the afterburner to counter stasis, but to nullify the possibility of being webbed they'd need to give up something, in this case armor. It seems fair enough to me. Tangentially related, how many Forge Gunners is a tank supposed to be able to survive?

A well-fitted tank with gunners should be a fair fight against 3 equal-tier AV players. Without gunners, it should be a credible threat against a lone AV player. With an afterburner, you don't gain enough speed to actually make yourself a difficult target for a Forge Gunner, and still can't outrun Swarm Launchers, so it's not worth using them.

The best counter for a Webifier is to not get caught. Having extra speed at the cost of armour probably won't balance out even if there's something that can drastically slow you and increase the value of speed.

Then what should tanks have to balance it out? I'd be fine with giving them more HP, but as I said before they'd better pay for their EHP with speed. As IWS stated, AV players are just not a credible threat to a tank because they can book-it back to redline sweet redline before they can be finished off unless you get two firing linked shots or more than two just firing at will. And honestly, two coordinated SuperSpaceRPGs ought to be enough to kill a tank.

My only real issue with fast tanks is the inability to kill them in the window they make themselves to be shot at, repping up to full and they're back out causing mayhem again.

Alas I seriously wished LAVs had mine layers to counter that.

This is the biggest problem I've noticed. Guy swaps to AV,scares the tank off, and the tank is back within a minute; less if he doesn't wait for cooldowns. The 'cowardly tank' as I've come to call them needs a counter in the form of webs. The AV guys I talk to get really steamed over not really getting anything for deterring vehicles while the vehicles get tons of kills from the nonAV guys or the AV guy himself if he gets too brazen. Too many 'big one that got away' stories, if you ask me.

Also, didn't there used to be a damage thing? I remember WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back in the first build you got points for damaging tanks, turrets, even the MCC. We need that back... except for the MCC one.

To be honest, make it risky to use a Webifier.

Make it an active equipment item like I suggested instead of something you can just drop and wait for a tank to run into.

Have a Webifier "tool" that you have to get within range for, and keep the beam on the tank to keep it stalled. One player holds the tank, another kills it.

Or make it so Webifiers have an effect that scales with the size of the target, so a tank will be slowed less, and a Scout will basically be immobilised.

Can't count the number of times I've surfed a tank. As a shotgunner, this never ends well.

I miss damage WP.

They ticked over as you hit certain damage thresholds though, rather than being based on how much damage you, personally, dealt to the vehicle. If they made it so dealing X damage to a single vehicle within Y seconds gave a small WP bonus, that would be great.

EDIT: And reduce (slightly) the points awarded for killing vehicles to compensate for the damage award.

I had a Shotgun duel on a tank once.

Was that you?

If he was a mildly braindamaged Minmatar Basic, then that was indeed me. Was running AV grenades to see what the whole OP fuss was about. Ran out way before the Tank ran low on shields and he was getting a bead on me, so jumping on top seemed the only sensible thing to do.

...WOW that sounds stupid when you say it out loud. Tried to jump a tank armed with grenades and ended up riding it.

No, I mean I was on top of a friendly tank, there was an enemy also on the tank, and we both had Shotguns.

I had been a gunner, but when I realised neither of us could get a line on our raspberry passenger, I joined him. Had a good few seconds of trying to get the driver to move his turret out of the way so I could get a clear shot.

Not sure. I remember things like that happening, but I can't read the neon names on my Lo-Def. BTW is it just me or do you need to lead the shotgun a tad, I swear I'm either missing or the bullets disappear into the ether when I'm too close.

On Webby topic, I hope they add them sooner than later, regardless of what speculation we make such a thing should have been tested during the beta period.

No, I mean I was on top of a friendly tank, there was an enemy also on the tank, and we both had Shotguns.

I had been a gunner, but when I realised neither of us could get a line on our raspberry passenger, I joined him. Had a good few seconds of trying to get the driver to move his turret out of the way so I could get a clear shot.

Hit detection is managed server-side, so you need to lead your shots with regard for your latency.

You can get a decent measure of how far to lead by watching your ammo counter. First thing I usually do when spawning in at the beginning of a game is fire a couple of shots and watch when my ammo counter goes down. If it's near-instant, I aim at my targets, if there's a slight delay, I aim where I expect the target to be with that delay. It's not perfect, and ping isn't 100% stable throughout the match, but it usually gives a reasonable baseline to work with.

Drive closer, I want to hit them with my sword.

I'm back, and this time, I've had a chance to actually get some rest. Unfortunately, not as much as I'd have liked, but anyway... I feel conscious again. So... Re-reading OP.


To be fair, average speed isn't significantly different from the average speed of a real-world tank. And the top speed you can get with a speed-tanked HAV isn't much different from the best a real-world tank can manage. But in saying that, game balance does need to be considered. Webifiers have been sort-of confirmed, and it's been hinted that they'll be Equipment (something beginning with "W").

If a Webifier is an equipment item that functions like the Repair Tool, I'd be VERY interested in seeing it used in battle. Get in close, lock on, and the enemy tank is slowed down massively (reduced movement, turret turn rate, fire rate, shield regen, everything). But you not only have to get close, you have to STAY close, making it a very risky option. Leave the enemy tank exposed to your team's AV weapons - or maybe toss an AV grenade then Web before they can outpace the blast.

The other possibility is that they make Webifier mines that have a limited duration effect once activated, whether remote triggered or Prox. This would probably be more user-friendly, but I'd prefer to see a more squad-based approach with an active Equipment item.

Although I do think I was onto a legitimate point in my less-than-coherent state before - giving us the freedom to choose speed tanking over HP tanking is an important option - buffing your speed and using that to be a difficult target SHOULD be a viable option, particularly if/when Enforcers become a viable option. They're designed to be low-defense high-attack. Why not use the passives in place of damage mods, then speed-tank so you're a fast-moving, hard-hitting platform that dies as soon as someone gets a line on you? Allowing for a greater variety of options isn't a bad thing.

No

A web will slow down its movement, it doesnt effect shield or the turret that is completely OP and basically a game breaking weapon making tanks useless yet again, no weapon in EVE even does all of that

A web would have to be equipment like the repair gun, requires an equipment slot

Problem is it fairly easy to take down a tank as it is, holding it in place while it gets wrecked with AV nade spam or general AV would be even quicker, sure you can say well it requires infantry around you but the problem is infantry are too slow moving and it also puts the tank at the risk of an OB

Its the wrong time to put it in, we already have basic tanks vs proto AV not too mention the enforcer tanks suck and can be taken down by a normal tank

Tanks have to pick up speed and there are no gates. So, no. Do not add stupid gate camp crap to this game.

Don't tanks have afterburners?

No.

Webbifiers are not 'gate camp crap' they are the bread and butter of combat across New Eden... well the butter anyway, with the bread being Warp Scramblers. Give me one good reason why Webbifiers shouldn't be in this game? They would add a unique flair to DUST, we'd finally have a tool that can't be dumbed down to SPACE 'modern firearm'.

isnt it just funny that gallente tanks are now faster can take more dmg and deal more dmg than caldari havs swarms were nerfed ....forge guns still same ole ...so why does ccp hate caldari havs ?

Because tanks are a;ready too easy to kill (5000 HP...really? O.o) We'd need a massive boost to PG to make tanks survivable. When I get a passive 50% boost to PG, i wont mind webifiers.

What skill could possibly give you a 50% bonus to PG? Also, if you need more PG equip PG modules, some of those even buff your shields as a bonus. They changed that one skill from PG bonus to PG module fitting bonus to get you to use them, so try them out. Kinda a **** move to change the skill without changing the description, but post respec I'm sure most is forgiven. Also, 5000 HP Total is 4 Assault Forge Gun blasts, which takes 10 seconds to fire. I'm not counting Hvy Dmg Mods, but I'm not counting reppers either. You have plenty of health, just stop trying to tank the whole enemy team and rushing into them without support. I haven't a clue if that's what you actually do, mind, but it seems to be the only way you could possibly be getting killed.

You have obviously never tanked. When you invest 9 mil SP and millions upon millions into tanks, you will want to last long. Alsom forge guns, because of how ppl fit their suits, usually do 2000 dmg, so thats about 3 shots, 4 grenades, or 4 good swarms. you know nothing of tanks OR AV

Double their Base HP, quarter their Speed, problem solved. They move way too fast and the second things look slightly bad they run to the hills where no one can follow them up. Allow them the possibility to wade into a firefight and hold up for a long time yet not the ability to leave if they misjudge the challenge.

That would make them move slower than infantry. No. You're insane. Realistically, they would be moving 100km/hr like real tanks do. They're SLOW as ****, really. And the base HP is not the issue. It's powergrid. If you boost my PG by 400%, then feel free the quarter my speed. Theyve already nerfed our speed as it is and having no PG helps.CCP, DO NOT TOUCH OUR SPEED BC THAT IS ALL WE HAVE LEFT. We stand no chance unless we ONLY railsnipe if we lose speed, too. We're barely hanging on as it is.

1 ishukoke assault forge can make it impossible for any number of tanks to be deployed and last. That ain't right. ONE forge should scare ONE tank away, but not kill it. The balance is so messed up.

I only want to hear from people with 7+ mil sp into tanks/Av bc nobody else understands the issue. All the best AV mercs agree that tanks are a little UP and every last tanker knows that we got a 25% PG nerf. That is A LOT.