I'm not quite getting it. They'd need the afterburner to counter stasis, but to nullify the possibility of being webbed they'd need to give up something, in this case armor. It seems fair enough to me. Tangentially related, how many Forge Gunners is a tank supposed to be able to survive?

A well-fitted tank with gunners should be a fair fight against 3 equal-tier AV players. Without gunners, it should be a credible threat against a lone AV player. With an afterburner, you don't gain enough speed to actually make yourself a difficult target for a Forge Gunner, and still can't outrun Swarm Launchers, so it's not worth using them.

The best counter for a Webifier is to not get caught. Having extra speed at the cost of armour probably won't balance out even if there's something that can drastically slow you and increase the value of speed.

Then what should tanks have to balance it out? I'd be fine with giving them more HP, but as I said before they'd better pay for their EHP with speed. As IWS stated, AV players are just not a credible threat to a tank because they can book-it back to redline sweet redline before they can be finished off unless you get two firing linked shots or more than two just firing at will. And honestly, two coordinated SuperSpaceRPGs ought to be enough to kill a tank.

My only real issue with fast tanks is the inability to kill them in the window they make themselves to be shot at, repping up to full and they're back out causing mayhem again.

Alas I seriously wished LAVs had mine layers to counter that.

This is the biggest problem I've noticed. Guy swaps to AV,scares the tank off, and the tank is back within a minute; less if he doesn't wait for cooldowns. The 'cowardly tank' as I've come to call them needs a counter in the form of webs. The AV guys I talk to get really steamed over not really getting anything for deterring vehicles while the vehicles get tons of kills from the nonAV guys or the AV guy himself if he gets too brazen. Too many 'big one that got away' stories, if you ask me.

Also, didn't there used to be a damage thing? I remember WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back in the first build you got points for damaging tanks, turrets, even the MCC. We need that back... except for the MCC one.

To be honest, make it risky to use a Webifier.

Make it an active equipment item like I suggested instead of something you can just drop and wait for a tank to run into.

Have a Webifier "tool" that you have to get within range for, and keep the beam on the tank to keep it stalled. One player holds the tank, another kills it.

Or make it so Webifiers have an effect that scales with the size of the target, so a tank will be slowed less, and a Scout will basically be immobilised.

Can't count the number of times I've surfed a tank. As a shotgunner, this never ends well.

I miss damage WP.

They ticked over as you hit certain damage thresholds though, rather than being based on how much damage you, personally, dealt to the vehicle. If they made it so dealing X damage to a single vehicle within Y seconds gave a small WP bonus, that would be great.

EDIT: And reduce (slightly) the points awarded for killing vehicles to compensate for the damage award.

I had a Shotgun duel on a tank once.

Was that you?

If he was a mildly braindamaged Minmatar Basic, then that was indeed me. Was running AV grenades to see what the whole OP fuss was about. Ran out way before the Tank ran low on shields and he was getting a bead on me, so jumping on top seemed the only sensible thing to do.

...WOW that sounds stupid when you say it out loud. Tried to jump a tank armed with grenades and ended up riding it.

No, I mean I was on top of a friendly tank, there was an enemy also on the tank, and we both had Shotguns.

I had been a gunner, but when I realised neither of us could get a line on our raspberry passenger, I joined him. Had a good few seconds of trying to get the driver to move his turret out of the way so I could get a clear shot.

Not sure. I remember things like that happening, but I can't read the neon names on my Lo-Def. BTW is it just me or do you need to lead the shotgun a tad, I swear I'm either missing or the bullets disappear into the ether when I'm too close.

On Webby topic, I hope they add them sooner than later, regardless of what speculation we make such a thing should have been tested during the beta period.

No, I mean I was on top of a friendly tank, there was an enemy also on the tank, and we both had Shotguns.

I had been a gunner, but when I realised neither of us could get a line on our raspberry passenger, I joined him. Had a good few seconds of trying to get the driver to move his turret out of the way so I could get a clear shot.

Hit detection is managed server-side, so you need to lead your shots with regard for your latency.

You can get a decent measure of how far to lead by watching your ammo counter. First thing I usually do when spawning in at the beginning of a game is fire a couple of shots and watch when my ammo counter goes down. If it's near-instant, I aim at my targets, if there's a slight delay, I aim where I expect the target to be with that delay. It's not perfect, and ping isn't 100% stable throughout the match, but it usually gives a reasonable baseline to work with.

Drive closer, I want to hit them with my sword.

I'm back, and this time, I've had a chance to actually get some rest. Unfortunately, not as much as I'd have liked, but anyway... I feel conscious again. So... Re-reading OP.


To be fair, average speed isn't significantly different from the average speed of a real-world tank. And the top speed you can get with a speed-tanked HAV isn't much different from the best a real-world tank can manage. But in saying that, game balance does need to be considered. Webifiers have been sort-of confirmed, and it's been hinted that they'll be Equipment (something beginning with "W").

If a Webifier is an equipment item that functions like the Repair Tool, I'd be VERY interested in seeing it used in battle. Get in close, lock on, and the enemy tank is slowed down massively (reduced movement, turret turn rate, fire rate, shield regen, everything). But you not only have to get close, you have to STAY close, making it a very risky option. Leave the enemy tank exposed to your team's AV weapons - or maybe toss an AV grenade then Web before they can outpace the blast.

The other possibility is that they make Webifier mines that have a limited duration effect once activated, whether remote triggered or Prox. This would probably be more user-friendly, but I'd prefer to see a more squad-based approach with an active Equipment item.

Although I do think I was onto a legitimate point in my less-than-coherent state before - giving us the freedom to choose speed tanking over HP tanking is an important option - buffing your speed and using that to be a difficult target SHOULD be a viable option, particularly if/when Enforcers become a viable option. They're designed to be low-defense high-attack. Why not use the passives in place of damage mods, then speed-tank so you're a fast-moving, hard-hitting platform that dies as soon as someone gets a line on you? Allowing for a greater variety of options isn't a bad thing.

No

A web will slow down its movement, it doesnt effect shield or the turret that is completely OP and basically a game breaking weapon making tanks useless yet again, no weapon in EVE even does all of that

A web would have to be equipment like the repair gun, requires an equipment slot

Problem is it fairly easy to take down a tank as it is, holding it in place while it gets wrecked with AV nade spam or general AV would be even quicker, sure you can say well it requires infantry around you but the problem is infantry are too slow moving and it also puts the tank at the risk of an OB

Its the wrong time to put it in, we already have basic tanks vs proto AV not too mention the enforcer tanks suck and can be taken down by a normal tank

Tanks have to pick up speed and there are no gates. So, no. Do not add stupid gate camp crap to this game.

Don't tanks have afterburners?

No.

Webbifiers are not 'gate camp crap' they are the bread and butter of combat across New Eden... well the butter anyway, with the bread being Warp Scramblers. Give me one good reason why Webbifiers shouldn't be in this game? They would add a unique flair to DUST, we'd finally have a tool that can't be dumbed down to SPACE 'modern firearm'.

isnt it just funny that gallente tanks are now faster can take more dmg and deal more dmg than caldari havs swarms were nerfed ....forge guns still same ole ...so why does ccp hate caldari havs ?

Because tanks are a;ready too easy to kill (5000 HP...really? O.o) We'd need a massive boost to PG to make tanks survivable. When I get a passive 50% boost to PG, i wont mind webifiers.

What skill could possibly give you a 50% bonus to PG? Also, if you need more PG equip PG modules, some of those even buff your shields as a bonus. They changed that one skill from PG bonus to PG module fitting bonus to get you to use them, so try them out. Kinda a **** move to change the skill without changing the description, but post respec I'm sure most is forgiven. Also, 5000 HP Total is 4 Assault Forge Gun blasts, which takes 10 seconds to fire. I'm not counting Hvy Dmg Mods, but I'm not counting reppers either. You have plenty of health, just stop trying to tank the whole enemy team and rushing into them without support. I haven't a clue if that's what you actually do, mind, but it seems to be the only way you could possibly be getting killed.

You have obviously never tanked. When you invest 9 mil SP and millions upon millions into tanks, you will want to last long. Alsom forge guns, because of how ppl fit their suits, usually do 2000 dmg, so thats about 3 shots, 4 grenades, or 4 good swarms. you know nothing of tanks OR AV