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Moochie Cricket
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
311
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 18:41:00 -
[91] - Quote
There needs to be a skill that gives +3/5% to damage resistance per level. This way the forge is left alone and it takes sp for someone to have a good dropship. |
DS 10
G I A N T EoN.
383
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 18:48:00 -
[92] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I think one of the major problems for dropships is they have such a large vulnerable spot.
Yes. It's called the whole thing. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
1992
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:There needs to be a skill that gives +3/5% to damage resistance per level. This way the forge is left alone and it takes sp for someone to have a good dropship. There is, it's called shield/armour upgrades, and for dropships it's useless. |
Moochie Cricket
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
311
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 19:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
gbghg wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:There needs to be a skill that gives +3/5% to damage resistance per level. This way the forge is left alone and it takes sp for someone to have a good dropship. There is, it's called shield/armour upgrades, and for dropships it's useless.
Im thinking of it as an additional skill specific to dropships only |
JamieC Jordan
Optimal Rangers
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 19:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
i checked the market just to see the damage a forge gun can do the prototype does 2700 and you say im wrong about them being overpowered i have 2 prototype shield extenders on my python and a shield hardener and that would still take my dropship out ( without damage amplifiers ) so they may be balanced on everything else but that would 1 shot any other dropship... the problem is you can only squeeze 3400 shield on a python without a armorrepair module |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
1995
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:18:00 -
[96] - Quote
JamieC Jordan wrote:i checked the market just to see the damage a forge gun can do the prototype does 2700 and you say im wrong about them being overpowered i have 2 prototype shield extenders on my python and a shield hardener and that would still take my dropship out ( without damage amplifiers ) so they may be balanced on everything else but that would 1 shot any other dropship... the problem is you can only squeeze 3400 shield on a python without a armorrepair module Light modules are useless against forge guns, those things are balanced against the heavy modules,which is half the problem between forge guns and modules.
And moochie, why not just give dropships an inherent resistance buff in that case? |
JamieC Jordan
Optimal Rangers
2
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:25:00 -
[97] - Quote
gbghg wrote:JamieC Jordan wrote:i checked the market just to see the damage a forge gun can do the prototype does 2700 and you say im wrong about them being overpowered i have 2 prototype shield extenders on my python and a shield hardener and that would still take my dropship out ( without damage amplifiers ) so they may be balanced on everything else but that would 1 shot any other dropship... the problem is you can only squeeze 3400 shield on a python without a armorrepair module Light modules are useless against forge guns, those things are balanced against the heavy modules,which is half the problem between forge guns and modules. And moochie, why not just give dropships an inherent resistance buff in that case?
all im saying is they made dropships fear almost everything plus the fact that the pg and cpu are usless i would like a solution that keeps forge gunners and dropship pilots happy you cant really fit much on it i have every skill point in vehicle modulels and my dropship still gets ripped apart |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1522
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:32:00 -
[98] - Quote
There are so many problems with the dropship that it's difficult to know where to begin.
- They are huge targets - They have practically no cover as they hang in the air - They are accessable from just about anywhere on the map so AV doesn't have to be threatened by infantry - They have the accelleration of a Greyhound bus with a Prius drivetrain - They have to fly low and slow to do anything useful - They are tissue paper thin unless you have millions of SP into them and then they are newsprint thin
On top of that they have no real mission.
Everyone says they are transports, but CCP treats them like gunships, going so far as to make an Assault variant. CCP Blam is now talking about a bomber variant. I don't get the feeling that we will see any ADV or PRO "versions" of the dropship, just more variations for increasing SP and ISK.
There is no need to use a dropship as transport. Grab a couple LAVs and you will arrive quickly, more stealthily, and intact with a few roadkills on the way. Take a dropship and you may not make it. In any event unless you area a heavy you can just walk in the time it takes to call in a dropship.
Once you make it to an objective DUs and objective spawning eliminate 90% of the need for long distance transport even on the larger maps.
The other missions?
- Vehicle scanners: They are radius based so the ground footprint is tiny to non-existant unless you are flying lamp-post height.
- Shield transport: With a range of several meters the dropship may as well be a child's balloon tied to the HAV's top turret. It's as easy to kill and as impossilbe to miss..
Dropships are a solution looking for a problem to solve. They used to fun to fly when they were somewhat responsive, but they are such slow pigs that I've stopped flying them for fun.
Now I'm driving the SLAV or LLAV for fun. The new control scheme with L2/R2 for brake/accellerator is great and racing around is so much more fun. I get the feeling of speed and the challenge of a racing game while turning red dots into red smears on the road. The speed loss when hitting a suit actually improves the fun as it makes it feel like a substantial hit. Now CCP needs to add a crunching sound of the suit being crushed to make it perfect. My personal best is 14-0 and I'm having a blast.
The LAV has the benefit of eHP, abundant cover, and accelleration which makes it 100x more survivable than a dropship. LAVs are where it's at. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
1995
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 19:36:00 -
[99] - Quote
Skihids wrote:There are so many problems with the dropship that it's difficult to know where to begin.
- They are huge targets - They have practically no cover as they hang in the air - They are accessable from just about anywhere on the map so AV doesn't have to be threatened by infantry - They have the accelleration of a Greyhound bus with a Prius drivetrain - They have to fly low and slow to do anything useful - They are tissue paper thin unless you have millions of SP into them and then they are newsprint thin
On top of that they have no real mission.
Everyone says they are transports, but CCP treats them like gunships, going so far as to make an Assault variant. CCP Blam is now talking about a bomber variant. I don't get the feeling that we will see any ADV or PRO "versions" of the dropship, just more variations for increasing SP and ISK.
There is no need to use a dropship as transport. Grab a couple LAVs and you will arrive quickly, more stealthily, and intact with a few roadkills on the way. Take a dropship and you may not make it. In any event unless you area a heavy you can just walk in the time it takes to call in a dropship.
Once you make it to an objective DUs and objective spawning eliminate 90% of the need for long distance transport even on the larger maps.
The other missions?
- Vehicle scanners: They are radius based so the ground footprint is tiny to non-existant unless you are flying lamp-post height.
- Shield transport: With a range of several meters the dropship may as well be a child's balloon tied to the HAV's top turret. It's as easy to kill and as impossilbe to miss..
Dropships are a solution looking for a problem to solve. They used to fun to fly when they were somewhat responsive, but they are such slow pigs that I've stopped flying them for fun.
Now I'm driving the SLAV or LLAV for fun. The new control scheme with L2/R2 for brake/accellerator is great and racing around is so much more fun. I get the feeling of speed and the challenge of a racing game while turning red dots into red smears on the road. The speed loss when hitting a suit actually improves the fun as it makes it feel like a substantial hit. Now CCP needs to add a crunching sound of the suit being crushed to make it perfect. My personal best is 14-0 and I'm having a blast.
The LAV has the benefit of eHP, abundant cover, and accelleration which makes it 100x more survivable than a dropship. LAVs are where it's at. 17-0 for me and frankly as I posted in this thread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=84440&find=unread dropships should be more like galaxy's in planetside 2. |
JamieC Jordan
Optimal Rangers
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 19:50:00 -
[100] - Quote
DS 10 wrote:It's hard to tell if all the dropships I've taken out have just been bad or my FG is just OP vs them. Most ships can only take one hit from my Ishukone Assault before dropping. Sometimes it MIGHT take two. I can totally understand why pilots are upset. It takes several shots on an LLAV and they are a lot more agile. It should take at least two shots to take out a basic ship, 3-4 for a good ship.
thank you. since your a forge gunner that actually helps this post on dropships since most forge gunners wont admit its unfair against dropships and this is why ccp needs to sort out the dropships shields and armor i mean they already reduced assault dropship a while ago |
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Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1523
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 20:12:00 -
[101] - Quote
The FG is balanced nicely against the HAV, but it's OP vs. the slow vulnerable dropship.
You can't nerf the FG without hurting the FG/HAV balance, so you need to come up with another way to balance FG/DS.
LAVs are balanced with respect to the FG due to the fact that the FG user has to be pretty close to the LAV to get a shot with all the natural cover a ground vehicle enjoys. The LAV also has great acceleration and speed to get out of Dodge when he is hit. Heck, the LAV can even take one in the face and roadkill the FG user.
The dropship has none of that. |
Phazoid
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 21:55:00 -
[102] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:*Anyone who has any idea what they're actually talking about.
As in people with experience both flying a lot and shooting DS with a FG? I know there's got to be a few of you, I just want to know who...
Look, i believe that dropships need a boost in speed, but in armor o shield wil be truly unbalanced, speed should be your best defense, sure FG right now are raping DS, because only FG and some AV nades can take down a tank, IF it is a proto tank well, lets just say that a very good FGnner is needed to take it down, or at least with proto FG, yes DS seem made of paper and they are slow, but more health will really unbalance everything, then buff swarm launcher threads will come, and so on, in a vicious circle, I really believe dropships should be much more nimble and fast, people are using them as flying tanks, not troop transports, and everything needs a week point, so the week point of DS would be while dropping soldiers or picking them up, as it should be, and some counter measures like flares are needed for defending against swarm launchers, but the balance goes far from damage and health, it goes to WP too, i mean DS pilots need WP when people spawn on the dropship, and kill assists when a turret makes a kill, and who nows?, maybe even WP for avoiding swarm launchers |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet
75
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 22:09:00 -
[103] - Quote
Why do dropship pilots even bother to land. Just have the passengers bail from the air. That requires coordination and skill of both dropship pilot and passengers, and is far safer for the ship. Not to mention impressive. Dropsuits have air brakes for a reason - use them.
Also, dropships have to be somewhat light to stay airborne. I say that knowing full well its a brick. There has to be a realistic balance between ship mass and avaliable thrust, and I believe it's met it. So yea, as a forge gunner and DS pilot, I think it's realistic.
The dropships has the entire airspace to play around with. USE IT! Stop bitching for a flying tank, you won't get it. You'll get better controls eventually, but not a flying fortress. If you aren't using the dropships inherent advantages , then the fault lies with you. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
705
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 22:12:00 -
[104] - Quote
Dropships are fine. We currently only have access to standard ones.
Here's a thread I made about my thoughts on dropships:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=894382#post894382 |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
2002
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 22:30:00 -
[105] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Why do dropship pilots even bother to land. Just have the passengers bail from the air. That requires coordination and skill of both dropship pilot and passengers, and is far safer for the ship. Not to mention impressive. Dropsuits have air brakes for a reason - use them.
Also, dropships have to be somewhat light to stay airborne. I say that knowing full well its a brick. There has to be a realistic balance between ship mass and avaliable thrust, and I believe it's met it. So yea, as a forge gunner and DS pilot, I think it's realistic.
The dropships has the entire airspace to play around with. USE IT! Stop bitching for a flying tank, you won't get it. You'll get better controls eventually, but not a flying fortress. If you aren't using the dropships inherent advantages , then the fault lies with you. That air space is a lot smaller than you'd think, forge guns range is 300 meters, the max flight ceiling is 500m, the forge gun can cover a huge of airspace and tank railguns with their much longer range can deny almost the entire sky if they go on a rise. And I believe the total map size is under a square kilometer on the larger maps.
And the reason we tend to slow down when dropping people from an aircraft is that it's a much more reliable and more accurate method of getting people on target for the drop, and it means the guy who dallied and doesn't jump out till a second after you tell him to move his ass will still land with the rest of the squad. We also have to land to pick people up. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3405
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 22:33:00 -
[106] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Dropships are fine. We currently only have access to standard ones.
Classic DUST mentality: It'll be fine in a year, don't worry man |
Eurydice Itzhak
Militaires Sans Jeux
55
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 22:52:00 -
[107] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:*Anyone who has any idea what they're actually talking about.
As in people with experience both flying a lot and shooting DS with a FG? I know there's got to be a few of you, I just want to know who...
I'm quite experienced with vehicles in general although my dropship skills aren't top notch because, well, dropships are useless piles of garbage.
I routinely drive my Logi LAV with a heavy fitted with a militia forge gun. I've never had a dropship live more than 5 minutes after I've decided I want to kill it. It is sad that a militia forge gun absolutely destroys Dropships in this way.
Vehicles in general need some attention and love.
Dropships need a whole lot more than anything else in the game. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
705
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 22:55:00 -
[108] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Dropships are fine. We currently only have access to standard ones. Classic DUST mentality: It'll be fine in a year, don't worry man Because spamming these forums with demands has gotten us this far. |
Gabriella Grey
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 02:11:00 -
[109] - Quote
I have experience as both a Sentinal/Forge Gun user and Dropship. The biggest problem with forge guns is dropships are an easy to spot target. HAV's and LAV's have a bit of lead way being that they are on the ground. there are tons of things that obstruct a forge gunners view of them. Also not to mention seeing that glowing forge gun from a HAV is much easier compared to being 1000 of meters in the air. I read in previous post Dropships speed was decreased a bit a while back, and it makes running from just anyone who decides to shoot rockets at you hard to pilot defensively. I do miss being able to use ACM (Air Combat Maneuvering), and mass to make lock on missiles hit sides of mountains, buldings or simply explode inches behind the ship. With forge guns there should be a roll off of damage depending the distance between them and the dropship, so just like the "fun factor," has been added to LAV's and other vehicles, I think dropships should have a fighting chance against them. I hope that CCP if they plan on producing a HUD interface for pilots to know about forge guns, or perhaps something to skill up where it detects forge guns and rockets in a reasonable area would be amazing. A few other things I think that dropships could benefit from also is there is a jerking glitch with the turrets that are manned by passengers. When you aim too close to the front of the ship they jerk upwards making it hard to track or lead your target. Another known glitch is if you are ever shot out of the dropship, and try to re-spawn in a logistics dropship or board back onto an assault dropship it glitches as if you are not moving anywhere until you jump out and the pilot calls it back and rez another. There also seems to be a huge issue with small railguns, and even more so when on a dropship. They do not feel accurate, when compared to missiles and blasters. It seems that even with direct hits small railguns only do splash damage. Last thing I noticed with dropships is no kill assist while you are piloting are given to the pilot like they are in tank. Other than that anything else that could be brought up are really searching hard for something wrong with dropships. I am sure CCP will soon give dropships their day to shine like everything else. |
Loki Keller
Corvus Conspiracy
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 02:59:00 -
[110] - Quote
Let's see, dropship is a troop transport armed with side-mounted turrets who can, if fitted properly, take out vehicles, fortifications, and harass infantry, deploy units anywhere on the battlefield faster than any other method of transportation, and a skilled pilot can make a huge difference to any given engagement.
A forge gunner, if fitted properly, can run at 3-4 mph and take out most light vehicles in 1-2 shots and heavy vehicles and fortifications with a few more. It is almost useless against anything but it's designated target. |
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