DUST Search - assault suits vs logis, the disconnect

Deluxe Edition wrote:

William HBonney wrote:

Everyone is aware of the caldari logo OPness, because its crazy racial bonus, and the reload glitches. I would also say that logistic suits in general are OP compared to their assault varients. They have more cpu and more pg with a very small hit to HP and speed. They also have better shield recharge rates and less time needed for the shields to begin recharging. Logistic suits should have better pg and cpu, should have more equipment slots, but shouldn't be able to be a better front line fighter. I believe the assault suits need a 20% better recharge rate then the logistic and a 20% better timer on when the shields recharge. I think they should also have 20-25% more total base health. Let them keep their slots and equipment and light weapon slot, just make them less effective in combat compared to the assault suit.

I would suggest a buff to the assault rather than a nerf to the logi, although the racial and suit bonuses need to be looked at, I have no idea who decided on these, but heavies got screwed along with all the other none synergistic bonuses. This last part is off topic, I want to know if you guys agree that assault suits need to be better at ...assaulting then the logistic suits.

They definatly need to look at the assault proto bonus... the shield recharge rate is worth nothing to an armor tanked assault.

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William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 331	Posted - 2013.05.11 14:04:00 - [1] - Quote Everyone is aware of the caldari logo OPness, because its crazy racial bonus, and the reload glitches. I would also say that logistic suits in general are OP compared to their assault varients. They have more cpu and more pg with a very small hit to HP and speed. They also have better shield recharge rates and less time needed for the shields to begin recharging. Logistic suits should have better pg and cpu, should have more equipment slots, but shouldn't be able to be a better front line fighter. I believe the assault suits need a 20% better recharge rate then the logistic and a 20% better timer on when the shields recharge. I think they should also have 20-25% more total base health. Let them keep their slots and equipment and light weapon slot, just make them less effective in combat compared to the assault suit. I would suggest a buff to the assault rather than a nerf to the logi, although the racial and suit bonuses need to be looked at, I have no idea who decided on these, but heavies got screwed along with all the other none synergistic bonuses. This last part is off topic, I want to know if you guys agree that assault suits need to be better at ...assaulting then the logistic suits.
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 331	Posted - 2013.05.11 14:35:00 - [2] - Quote Nothing? Or haven I just kicked a dead horse?
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 477	Posted - 2013.05.11 14:38:00 - [3] - Quote I agree.
Icy Xenosmilus Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 185	Posted - 2013.05.11 14:41:00 - [4] - Quote Good plan, but since everyone has specced logo, they won't admit how broken it is.
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 332	Posted - 2013.05.11 14:41:00 - [5] - Quote Agree to the OP or to the fact that so many people have said stuff about it? I just think it is silly to only give them sidearms or take away the slots, their base stats need to make them weaker and slower, but not gimpingly so
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 477	Posted - 2013.05.11 14:53:00 - [6] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Agree to the OP or to the fact that so many people have said stuff about it? I just think it is silly to only give them sidearms or take away the slots, their base stats need to make them weaker and slower, but not gimpingly so To the OP.
Den-tredje Baron The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 40	Posted - 2013.05.11 14:55:00 - [7] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Everyone is aware of the caldari logo OPness, because its crazy racial bonus, and the reload glitches. I would also say that logistic suits in general are OP compared to their assault varients. They have more cpu and more pg with a very small hit to HP and speed. They also have better shield recharge rates and less time needed for the shields to begin recharging. Logistic suits should have better pg and cpu, should have more equipment slots, but shouldn't be able to be a better front line fighter. I believe the assault suits need a 20% better recharge rate then the logistic and a 20% better timer on when the shields recharge. I think they should also have 20-25% more total base health. Let them keep their slots and equipment and light weapon slot, just make them less effective in combat compared to the assault suit. I would suggest a buff to the assault rather than a nerf to the logi, although the racial and suit bonuses need to be looked at, I have no idea who decided on these, but heavies got screwed along with all the other none synergistic bonuses. This last part is off topic, I want to know if you guys agree that assault suits need to be better at ...assaulting then the logistic suits. Totally with you +1 !!! Totally agree as a logistic ( i play it we should not be better at assaulting than assaults. Messing around with logis base stats and their bonuses instead of messing around with their base stats is much much much much more preferred than messing up their slot layout. ) THIS though cannot be said without also asking for a major buff in regards of assaults (and especially also heavy and scout) bonuses as they really suck right now. Sorry i know i've pasted these ideas on how bonuses should be quite a few times but i hope people respond to them so we can give CCP a clear idea of what bonuses the different classes should have. LOGIS: overall bonus make equipment take 5% or 10% less CPU/PG per level. (Then also nerf CPU and PG by like 10%-20% overall to really encourage logistically play and not assault+1 play) AMARR: 10% bonus to armor repair module and equipment effectiveness per level (again donno what amarrs thing is so please come up with better. Has to be balanced with gall and this doesn't seem it) MINMATAR: 5% bonus to hacking speed and DISTANCE. CALDARI: 10% bonus to shield regen per level. GALLENTE: 1 HP/s passive armor repair. (Amarr really needs some love so adding 1 more low slot would definitely be good. Maybe removing 1 low on caldari but very optional) ASSAULT: overall bonus 2% bonus to weapon damage. AMARR: 10% bonus to weapon ammo capacity per level ( again amarr i can't figure them out. Though i think they bonus right now is silly) MINMATAR: 5% bonus stamina regain and maximum amount. CALDARI: 3% bonus to reload speed. GALLENTE: 5% reduction to armor plate drawbacks. (actually making the gallente assault more viable as it's not gonna be soooo damm slow. Armor doesn't regenerate as fast as shield so might be a brick you meet at first engagement but with no bonusses to reppers they'll be slow at getting back to max HP. Also encourages to run with logi. I think this would make assault way better but please i'm not perfect so please change something if you think i'm an idiot. HEAVIES Overall bonus 4% bonus per level to resistance against small arms fire. AMARR: I actually have no idea to be honest. I can't figure out what the main role / main tanking / main weapon of the amarr heavy is. SCOUTS ....... i really haven't looked at scouts at all They really also need some love .... and they need their second equipment slot back. Again sorry i have posted above in a few other topics as well now but i hope we here at the community can come up with fair and balanced bonuses AND base stats so that assaults can again become assaults, heavies become small tanks (like real tank not the tanks we have now ) and scouts become the stab / shoot in the back bastards of the game. After this we can hopefully also fix tanks and dropships (yeah right )
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 334	Posted - 2013.05.11 15:09:00 - [8] - Quote Tanks do need some loving, dropships can escape now with the increased ceiling, they aren't assault ships, but I think high end vehicles need an HP buff, not the low end crap. Militia lavs and tanks need to die fast....esp lavs, do not promote running people over.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1393	Posted - 2013.05.11 15:32:00 - [9] - Quote about the OP: ive predicted that the caldari logi is unbalanced when ive first saw the stats and the module loadout. What was CCP thinking? Oh yeah lets give that guy tons of CPU/PG racial bonuses etc. So that he makes the best assault. I would like to see that racial assault suits would get a damage bonus to their racial affilitaed weapons. And with the upcoming scrambler rifle which gives bonus VS shields some people will get screwed over hard. About vehicle HP buff: the reason why CCP buffs militia grade vehicles aswell is that they are supposed to still have a chance vs better tanks if they wouldnt do that then the militia vehicles would be 100% useless. However what i dont like is that dropships are not getting included to the big HP buff for whatever reason. So LAV's can get even more HP then a dropship. Sounds a bit odd for me.
Failonius Quantum Degeneracy 13	Posted - 2013.05.11 15:35:00 - [10] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: about the OP: ive predicted that the caldari logi is unbalanced when ive first saw the stats and the module loadout. What was CCP thinking? Oh yeah lets give that guy tons of CPU/PG racial bonuses etc. So that he makes the best assault. I would like to see that racial assault suits would get a damage bonus to their racial affilitaed weapons. And with the upcoming scrambler rifle which gives bonus VS shields some people will get screwed over hard. About vehicle HP buff: the reason why CCP buffs militia grade vehicles aswell is that they are supposed to still have a chance vs better tanks if they wouldnt do that then the militia vehicles would be 100% useless. However what i dont like is that dropships are not getting included to the big HP buff for whatever reason. So LAV's can get even more HP then a dropship. Sounds a bit odd for me. I was flying a dropship yesterday without problems.

NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 313	Posted - 2013.05.11 16:33:00 - [11] - Quote Exact stats, for the caldari suits. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=785807#post785807 No need to change anything other than the caldari logi bonus, though I would be willing to switch shield recharge delay with assault users and change the assault class bonus to damage bonus.
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 336	Posted - 2013.05.11 16:39:00 - [12] - Quote The recharge rate and the delay being better then assaults is very odd to me. Without the racial bonus it is a decent suit, just not game breaking.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 314	Posted - 2013.05.11 16:43:00 - [13] - Quote William HBonney wrote: The recharge rate and the delay being better then assaults is very odd to me. It is. You would think that if a logi gets hit he should run, since they aren't as good at strafing as assault suits.
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 337	Posted - 2013.05.11 17:41:00 - [14] - Quote I think a logi should be able to get plenty of Hp through mods, I do not believe they should have combat sustainability compared to an assault, that is why I say assault suits (of the same racial kind) should have 20% better base stats when talking about Hp regan and recharge rate
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 315	Posted - 2013.05.11 17:46:00 - [15] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Ishould have 20% better base stats when talking about Hp regan and recharge rate They do, 25 is in fact 125% percent of 20, they just need better recharge delays.
TheMarkOf22 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 131	Posted - 2013.05.11 17:59:00 - [16] - Quote assaults should be between scouts and logi as far as shield regen goes, but they are not. also this has nothing to do with reloading nerd.
RKKR The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 15	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:00:00 - [17] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: William HBonney wrote: The recharge rate and the delay being better then assaults is very odd to me. It is. You would think that if a logi gets hit he should run, since they aren't as good at strafing as assault suits. Guess what? Logis aren't as good at running too so give logis a speed-increasement and more stamina and we'll be better at running away before getting killed.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 315	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:03:00 - [18] - Quote RKKR wrote: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: William HBonney wrote: The recharge rate and the delay being better then assaults is very odd to me. It is. You would think that if a logi gets hit he should run, since they aren't as good at strafing as assault suits. Guess what? Logis aren't as good at running too so give logis a speed-increasement and more stamina and we'll be better at running away before getting killed. I'm well aware of that, which is why I believe that the potential for more health/speed through slots is justified.
RKKR The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 15	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:17:00 - [19] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: RKKR wrote: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: William HBonney wrote: The recharge rate and the delay being better then assaults is very odd to me. It is. You would think that if a logi gets hit he should run, since they aren't as good at strafing as assault suits. Guess what? Logis aren't as good at running too so give logis a speed-increasement and more stamina and we'll be better at running away before getting killed. I'm well aware of that, which is why I believe that the potential for more health/speed through slots is justified. Assaults can improve recharge rate and delay too. I'm just wondering wha you guys find so odd?
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1219	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:20:00 - [20] - Quote RKKR wrote: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: William HBonney wrote: The recharge rate and the delay being better then assaults is very odd to me. It is. You would think that if a logi gets hit he should run, since they aren't as good at strafing as assault suits. Guess what? Logis aren't as good at running too so give logis a speed-increasement and more stamina and we'll be better at running away before getting killed. Caldari logi has 4 low power slots in the proto suit. They can absolutely afford a kinetic catalyzer. Increase in movement speed isnt necessary for a logi to do their job

NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 317	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:21:00 - [21] - Quote I don't, just trying to explain to people that the suits aren't as OP as they claim, at least the suits that aren't the Caldari Logi.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 54	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:29:00 - [22] - Quote RKKR wrote: Guess what? Logis aren't as good at running too so give logis a speed-increasement and more stamina and we'll be better at running away before getting killed. cough Minmatar Logi cough
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 337	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:29:00 - [23] - Quote RKKR wrote: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: RKKR wrote: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: William HBonney wrote: The recharge rate and the delay being better then assaults is very odd to me. It is. You would think that if a logi gets hit he should run, since they aren't as good at strafing as assault suits. Guess what? Logis aren't as good at running too so give logis a speed-increasement and more stamina and we'll be better at running away before getting killed. I'm well aware of that, which is why I believe that the potential for more health/speed through slots is justified. Assaults can improve recharge rate and delay too. I'm just wondering wha you guys find so odd? What I find odd is that their BASE is better and they have more slots for an increase that the assault suit, which should be front line cannot match. This is a simple fix to the base values that I think will have the appropriate balance without taking anything from the logi, perhaps the racial bonus of caldari needs to be addressed, along with bonuses in general, but that is another topic. The biggest reason why the logi suits make better assault suits in every variant is because their base shield regain and delay on top of having more slots.
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 337	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:32:00 - [24] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: I don't, just trying to explain to people that the suits aren't as OP as they claim, at least the suits that aren't the Caldari Logi. Not OP, just not balanced. When the logi suit, in any racial variant can out tank and out damage its assault brother while having more equipment is a very bad thing.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 317	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:39:00 - [25] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: RKKR wrote: Guess what? Logis aren't as good at running too so give logis a speed-increasement and more stamina and we'll be better at running away before getting killed. cough Minmatar Logi cough cough Minmatar asault suit is still faster.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 161	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:39:00 - [26] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Everyone is aware of the caldari logo OPness, because its crazy racial bonus, and the reload glitches. I would also say that logistic suits in general are OP compared to their assault varients. They have more cpu and more pg with a very small hit to HP and speed. They also have better shield recharge rates and less time needed for the shields to begin recharging. Logistic suits should have better pg and cpu, should have more equipment slots, but shouldn't be able to be a better front line fighter. I believe the assault suits need a 20% better recharge rate then the logistic and a 20% better timer on when the shields recharge. I think they should also have 20-25% more total base health. Let them keep their slots and equipment and light weapon slot, just make them less effective in combat compared to the assault suit. I would suggest a buff to the assault rather than a nerf to the logi, although the racial and suit bonuses need to be looked at, I have no idea who decided on these, but heavies got screwed along with all the other none synergistic bonuses. This last part is off topic, I want to know if you guys agree that assault suits need to be better at ...assaulting then the logistic suits. They definatly need to look at the assault proto bonus... the shield recharge rate is worth nothing to an armor tanked assault.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 317	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:49:00 - [27] - Quote William HBonney wrote: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: I don't, just trying to explain to people that the suits aren't as OP as they claim, at least the suits that aren't the Caldari Logi. Not OP, just not balanced. When the logi suit, in any racial variant can out tank and out damage its assault brother while having more equipment is a very bad thing. I wasn't saying you, just the people that think it is. As for out tank or out DPS The C logi can out tank the the assault suit, but only thanks to it's bonus. It can out DPS it as well, but not by much because of stacking bonuses, and even then it now has less HP and speed. The G logi, can either out speed or out tank it's counterpart, but never both. Forget how many high slots the assault suit has though, so I can't say anything about DPS. The A logi can never out tank or out DPS it's brother. It has the same slot count, but it's traded in speed and health for it's equipment. I don't remember the minmatar stats, but I'm pretty sure it has to choose between glass cannon and tanking. The Logis(except Amarr) are able to do lots of individual things better than their counterparts, but never at the same time. So they aren't "god " suits like some claim, they can just specialize further into certain roles. The caldari logi's bonus needs to get toned down though.
RKKR The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 15	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:51:00 - [28] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: RKKR wrote: Guess what? Logis aren't as good at running too so give logis a speed-increasement and more stamina and we'll be better at running away before getting killed. cough Minmatar Logi cough CCP we have just found the solution to all these balance/whine threads! You want to run faster? You want better survivability? You want more equipment slots? Or maybe don't want to fiddle with CPU/PG? Play Minmatar Logi! CCP please remove all the other suits.
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 28	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:51:00 - [29] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: William HBonney wrote: Everyone is aware of the caldari logo OPness, because its crazy racial bonus, and the reload glitches. I would also say that logistic suits in general are OP compared to their assault varients. They have more cpu and more pg with a very small hit to HP and speed. They also have better shield recharge rates and less time needed for the shields to begin recharging. Logistic suits should have better pg and cpu, should have more equipment slots, but shouldn't be able to be a better front line fighter. I believe the assault suits need a 20% better recharge rate then the logistic and a 20% better timer on when the shields recharge. I think they should also have 20-25% more total base health. Let them keep their slots and equipment and light weapon slot, just make them less effective in combat compared to the assault suit. I would suggest a buff to the assault rather than a nerf to the logi, although the racial and suit bonuses need to be looked at, I have no idea who decided on these, but heavies got screwed along with all the other none synergistic bonuses. This last part is off topic, I want to know if you guys agree that assault suits need to be better at ...assaulting then the logistic suits. They definatly need to look at the assault proto bonus... the shield recharge rate is worth nothing to an armor tanked assault. Agreed.
LittleCuteBunny Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 11	Posted - 2013.05.11 19:13:00 - [30] - Quote An easier way to fix the balance between Assault and Logistics would be to swap the slots of each class, for example: In regards to High Power and Low-Power Assault suits should have the current amount of H-Power and L-Power slots that Logistics dropsuits have right now Logistics should have the current amount off H-Power and L-Power diminished to match the current state of assault suits Why? If the assault suit have the number of logistics slots they will either add damage, more extenders/ plates, rechargers, regulators or movement stuff, considering they got one of their equipment slots removed. Where the logistics prime advantage is having a superior amount of CPU and PG, the passive armor repair and the race bonus are good enough, considering they are the only class that can carry so many variants in equipment Light Weapon slot? People argue that logistics should have their L-W slot removed but that will be just plan stupidity as they are made a subpar class, the main idea behind logistics is to be a SUPPORT class not the GOD of the battle.



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