CCP Blam! wrote:
Hi all, thanks for your feedback. YouGÇÖre right to point out that the PG and CPU numbers needed some changes there, even after you compare their less robust slot layout and lower HP numbers to the Standard HAVs. On their own base fits, they fair decently against other HAVs but when players with enough skill points start swapping out these modules for more premium modules the fit starts to become a bit more imposing than what we had intended. As a result, IGÇÖve reduced the PG/CPU numbers so that each racial flavour of AUR HAV is a bit lower than their Standard tier equivalents, and swapped out modules in these fits to suit.

The changes are as follows:

Kaalakiota Tactical HAV
PG: 1905 -> 1800
CPU: 320 -> 320

Creodron Breach HAV
PG: 3880 -> 2584
CPU: 222 -> 214
Low slot module change: Militia Heavy Armor Repairer -> Militia Armor Repairer

Gunnlogi (Gallente Standard HAV)
PG: 1805
CPU: 330

Madrugar (Caldari Standard HAV)
PG:2905
CPU: 210


After this passes our local QA, weGÇÖll be sure to pass the update to you very soon.

To tack onto this, IGÇÖd like to assure you that weGÇÖll also be looking at increasing the vehiclesGÇÖ overall sustainability in combat so that you can start seeing longer, more engaging encounters on the battlefield.

Best Regards,
-CCP Blam!

To establish that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things: (1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser's own or another person's goods, services, or commercial activity; (2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience; (4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and (5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement's potential to injure a customer. The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

No refunds does not apply when you change the attributes of the product AFTER purchase. This falls into the categories of false advertising and bait and switch. Both of which are illegal

They didn't sell you the attributes though , or did the armor pack give their exact stats?
Also, the in-game items belong to CCP and they can adjust them as they see fit, all you bought was having those items credited to your account.

They didn't sell you the attributes though , or did the armor pack give their exact stats?
Also, the in-game items belong to CCP and they can adjust them as they see fit, all you bought was having those items credited to your account.

If you payed extra for a car with a V8 in it only to wake up and find out that the manufacturer replaced it with a V6 while you were sleeping, wouldn't you be angry? I purchased an armor pack to test the tanks out... then I purchased a ton more once I saw the PG on the Credron HAV.

I agree with op, that's not a tiny change... And how are u suppose to want to buy things fir aur when everything changes hardcore every other month ?

So they have less slots , less pg and cpu than standard tanks, and less hp what ?????????? You can't sell something for cash and then be like, nope you actually bought this totally different thing!

If op is smart he will remove all tanks are broken talk from the op, and focus on the refund bait and switch. Glad I don't spend money on this game yet that's for sure

Everything in this game is subject to change, how is that not clear? CCP would have a lawsuit on their hands everytime they changed any stats if that wasn't the case.

You guys can try court though

Everything in this game is subject to change, how is that not clear? CCP would have a lawsuit on their hands everytime they changed any stats if that wasn't the case.

You guys can try court though

Exactly right... if they do anything to existing tanks, I will probably never buy aurum again, period ever.

Its not legality issues at stake, its ethics.

They can take those tanks off the market and sell updated versions of the tanks, but they should never, ever, mess with the existing tanks that were already purchased.

If the AA pack is still on the market, the best solution would be to take it down now. Redo the stats, and upload it back up.

The existing tanks will remain, and just slow be removed from the market through attrition and vehicle destruction.

They shouldn't implement refunds or anything like that... just leave the already purchased tanks the way they are.

1000% agreed.

This is the most simple and most ethical option which will not lost CCP money or customers, and will not have any negative impact on the game.

Trust me, they WILL be destroyed... I have already lost 20 or more Creodron HAVs.

Also, they could turn this into an opportunity to make more money... If they change the pack by say lowering the PG (not as much as the Dev suggested tho, thats ridiculous) and adding one high power slot or something to make it sort of a weird fit... then I would buy it.

If they just lower the PG and repost the same pack... I probably wont buy any more, but I would be happy with the Creodron I had... treating them like gold.... and be happy with CCP. I would also be on the look out for more cool packs, and trust the CCP will not change them.

If they do not do this... well I just wont give them any more of my money....

The sad thing is that I have to buy a bunch of merc packs since they are going away(or at least changing) on the 14th.

I am holding out on buying anymore merc packs until I find out weather CCP is going to start changing stats of items purchased with real money.... it's a trust issue now.

Note: CCP could be really cool and send me a PM saying they will keep the current purchases the same and make a new pack tonight during maintenance... that way I could go spend a couple hundred bucks on the armor packs... I would too. Is CCP that smart?... LOL ... or will they do the opposite?

CCP, feel free to send me that message too

[quote=eKona vinDar]
Everything in this game is subject to change, how is that not clear? CCP would have a lawsuit on their hands everytime they changed any stats if that wasn't the case.

BUMP

OP please change the title of the post to something shorter, more precise, and less rage sounding. Reformat your OP using paragraphs, remove negative tone and focus more on keeping the current creodron and updating ONLY future sales. Will remove this text afterwards.

1. Did the terms of sale include the stats on the tanks? No. Your "false advertising" claim is invalid.

2. Did the terms of sale specify that the tanks are "Militia" vehicles? Yes. You should have been expecting Militia stats.

3. Is DUST advertised as specifically NOT being pay-to-win and has it had multiple weapons and modules with better-than-ISK-variant stats rebalanced to function identically to the ISK version? Yes. You should have, at worst, been expecting the same statlines as the Gunnlogi and Madrugar, but without the prerequisites.

1. Did the terms of sale include the stats on the tanks? No. Your "false advertising" claim is invalid.

2. Did the terms of sale specify that the tanks are "Militia" vehicles? Yes. You should have been expecting Militia stats.

3. Is DUST advertised as specifically NOT being pay-to-win and has it had multiple weapons and modules with better-than-ISK-variant stats rebalanced to function identically to the ISK version? Yes. You should have, at worst, been expecting the same statlines as the Gunnlogi and Madrugar, but without the prerequisites.

I would suggest sending a ticket in.

I agree with you that its not right, but because im expecting not a lot of people bought those packs, it might be dealt on a personal basis.

But I do agree it should be on the forums so others are aware of what is going on.

Thats the problem with micro-transaction games, we are at the mercy of the devs for item stats.

The armor pack is priced much higher than the cost of the AUR for militia grade equipment, and equipment comparable to items requiring skills but without the prereqs.

Who in the right mind would spend real money for militia tanks? I can see how people would purchase it once to see if it was worth it.... but if you then go and spend a bunch more money you are doing so because of the stats the item has. To have that item nerfed later is bait and switch, bottom line. There is no way around that.

Who in their right mind would pay money for items in a closed beta without a promise of those items being refunded on release?

Oh yeah, WE DIDN'T. Merc Pack came with exactly that promise when many people bought it. I haven't seen many voices supporting our rights, and unlike your complaint, the stats you're complaining about weren't included in the terms of the purchase agreement you made. The Merc Pack's conditions on purchase specifically included mention of a full credit on release, which is now, after the fact, being made conditional on a case-by-case reset rather than being applied as agreed.

I don't see many people supporting that argument in these forums, but you seem perfectly content to complain about a less-valid desire to keep pay-to-win items that you really should have seen the nerf-hammer coming for.

I have found something quite disturbing on the forums. They(CCP) are planning on completely nerfing the stats of the tanks that were bought with the armor pack. The only reason any of us bought that pack was because of the insane amount of PG the creodron HAVs had(more than proto). Yes, they had a limited slot layout, but the PG made up for it.

I bought at least 5 of the armor packs. What I am getting at, I spent $9.99*5packs=$49.95 for 200 tanks(100 which are kinda kitteny, sorry the Kaalakiota is a little weak), that are now going to be worse than the AUR tanks. I could have gotten 66 AUR tanks for the same amount of money. They have reduced the base PG by at least 33%. Does anyone else see a problem here?

There are some of us out there that spend actual money to have an edge in this game(and to support CCP), I am not afraid to admit it. We are the people that fund this game, so, you're welcome. They are making these changes ex post facto, this is completely unacceptable and I feel that a refund is in order here. Now, they are changing the stats of the Creodron HAV to make it useless. The issue is not that tanks have been nerfed, the issue is false advertising, bait and switch, etc. I don't mind giving you money, but please keep your end of the bargain. I feel that the best option here would be to keep the stats the same for the existing Creodron HAVs and make a new version for the armor pack moving forward(they are gonna have to make them either cheaper or better to encourage sales over the AUR tanks).

Tanking has been a mess since the Uprising release. First, they had the wrong description for vehicle engineering, which has caused major issues and pretty much made all tanks glass. Then, they had the skill requirements for shields incorrect, I had to spec into the dropsuit skills to be able to use the shield extenders.... Now I have lost SP and I cannot use my tanks. There is a major issue either with hit detection or the large turrets randomly not doing any damage with a direct hit. The elevation and depression of the large turret is COMPLETELY kittened, making it impossible to shoot people on small hills. With all of this going on, why would anyone want to spec into HAVs anymore?

Please post in this thread if you bought an armor pack and you are interested in keeping the stats the same. Post to keep this on the first page, hopefully the DEVs will read this and respond.

They are not being balanced evenly acording to the change. They are being nerfed below balance. Balance would mean if an ISK tank got nerfed 10% PG, and AUR tank would get nerfed 10% PG.

Either way it doesn't matter because in the end that's not what I paid for.

Just be happy people like us are willing to pay for things so people like you don't have to.

So you're bitching because the payed assets are being balanced with the new stats of the free assets?

I mean, are you effectively arguing for P2W? That's what it seems like to me.

Besides, if you want to whine about payed content being nerfed, go talk to SOE.

I have 90,000 AURUM, most of which came from a Merc Pack I bought even after I got into the Closed Beta for free.

Try again.

They are not being balanced evenly acording to the change. They are being nerfed below balance. Balance would mean if an ISK tank got nerfed 10% PG, and AUR tank would get nerfed 10% PG.

Either way it doesn't matter because in the end that's not what I paid for.

Just be happy people like us are willing to pay for things so people like you don't have to.

This thread is about the armor pack, not the merc pack. The fact that I have not complained about the merc pack in this thread is a ridiculous argument.

I did not purchase the armor pack in closed beta. As far as I know, nobody could purchase anything in closed beta. This was OPEN beta. Open beta is completely different. It is rare that a game will have any kind of full reset, full redo of skills, of everything, going from open beta to full release. RARE.

Open beta is a general term almost all free to play/micro transaction system games use. Only a limited amount of select people participate in closed beta. EVERYONE can participate in open beta. In effect, open beta IS the full release, with an excuse for remaining bugs.

Open beta is also when the pay to play items open up... and so it is natural that one would expect that if the developer is selling those items for real money, they are complete and in their final form. It is sloppy, unprofessional, and bad for business to begin selling items via MTS without considering those items. In this case it is a face plant fail on CCP's part that they did not consider that people with higher SP can and will purchase the armor pack and fit NON militia modules.

What kind of company doesn't consider that? Why would anyone NOT put better modules on the Creodron if they could? Why did CCP put that much PG on it in the first place? The tanks does not come with modules that use all that power grid, so for CCP to say "it was not our intention" is a lie or they are just plain dumb.

At this point, I am considering the possibility that CCP released the armor pack knowing how it would be used, because they are the developers and should know that someone with the right skills can fit that tank well.... so they knew that.... which means they knew that it would be a selling point, and that most tankers who bought that pack would buy more after trying it out.... and with this knowledge, knowing that they are selling people an item because of that one specific attribute, after people have purchased several of these packs they decide to reduce that one specific attribute making the whole package worthless.

BAIT AND SWITCH!

I'll admit - as CCP already have - that this was a pretty major oversight on their part. But that doesn't negate the fact that the terms of the sale DON'T set out that you have any right to expect pay-to-win stats from your items after purchase. It may suck for you that you're losing your advantage, but that doesn't make it CCP's fault. You were exploiting an oversight by the devs to get an unfair advantage over other players. It's no different from any other exploit. They've patched it, and now you have to work for your kills on the same rules as everyone else.

They refunded AUR items. Nerfs have been class wide. They are heavily nerfing one specific item that was only available with actual cash. It wasn't a simple oversite. If it was, they should have pulled the pack immediately. there is no validity to your argument of "well we feel we were wronged more, so you cannot possibly be right." I fall into the same category as you as far as the merc pack release day credit. I feel we should get that to. This thread is specifically about the armor pack, it is even in the title.

k thx, bai.

So because they're changing the stats on the armour pack, and announced publicly that they're going to, admitting that they didn't think the original stats through in terms of how they'd be affected by skills, you're assuming instead that they knew all along, and planned to try and get away with it until somene called them out?

I feel compelled to repeat my appreciation for your splendiferous hat.

They are changed, Creadon has lost at least 1k PG it seems

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Worthless now.

I am thinking I shouldn't buy any of the new merc packs... What if they just decide to nerf all those tanks into oblivion too? Way to go CCP, you have started to make reevaluate how much I and many others want to fund the development of this game.