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eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
11
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
No refunds does not apply when you change the attributes of the product AFTER purchase. This falls into the categories of false advertising and bait and switch. Both of which are illegal.
Quote: To establish that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things: (1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser's own or another person's goods, services, or commercial activity; (2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience; (4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and (5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement's potential to injure a customer. The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.
From : http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/False+Advertising
CCP is obligated to refund all of these purchases or they will be subject to lawsuit.
I purchased several of these packs because I knew they where going to be better than the ISK tanks after they nerfed them.
I demand a full refund. |
eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
12
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:eKona vinDar wrote:No refunds does not apply when you change the attributes of the product AFTER purchase. This falls into the categories of false advertising and bait and switch. Both of which are illegal They didn't sell you the attributes though , or did the armor pack give their exact stats? Also, the in-game items belong to CCP and they can adjust them as they see fit, all you bought was having those items credited to your account.
Read my edited post, I answer all of your questions. If you are still confused do some Googling on false advertising and bait and switch. |
eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
13
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Skittles McDuckett wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:eKona vinDar wrote:No refunds does not apply when you change the attributes of the product AFTER purchase. This falls into the categories of false advertising and bait and switch. Both of which are illegal They didn't sell you the attributes though , or did the armor pack give their exact stats? Also, the in-game items belong to CCP and they can adjust them as they see fit, all you bought was having those items credited to your account. If you payed extra for a car with a V8 in it only to wake up and find out that the manufacturer replaced it with a V6 while you were sleeping, wouldn't you be angry? I purchased an armor pack to test the tanks out... then I purchased a ton more once I saw the PG on the Credron HAV.
Exactly... I did the same and I would assume 99% of the sales of that pack where because of the Creodron PG.
If you bought the pack specifically because of the Creodron PG, or if you bought more because of it please say so here.
Lets turn this thread into a petition for a full refund. By full refund I mean if you only have 1 Creodron left, you get your whole $9.99 back because they are still legally obligated to refund since the pack was not sold on a per peice basis. |
eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Everything in this game is subject to change, how is that not clear? CCP would have a lawsuit on their hands everytime they changed any stats if that wasn't the case. You guys can try court though
They can change isk items but not items purchased with real money. The packs are not even purchased with AUR, its straight up cash.
And no the packs to not advertise their stats. But when you purchase one you get to see the stats, at that moment CCP is implicitly advertising the stats of the pack which affects your future purchasing decisions.
Even if CCP reply's with the official "We can do what ever we want, read the contract." statement, it doesn't really matter because they HAVE to give the refund.
Why? Because all the people that would want a refund obviously are people who are willing to spend money on Dust 514. Some of us even willing to spend a great deal of money, if what we purchase is worth it. By not giving a refund CCP will be losing the confidence of a decent percentage of their targeted market... the people willing to spend the money.
So in the end its a matter of customer service. Either they choose to lose customers, or keep them.. even if they are still going to be upset, at least they will keep them. By not offering them to keep the Creodrons they already have, and provide a replacement pack, or at least offering them a refund... they will simply lose customers... good ones too. |
eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 18:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Exactly right... if they do anything to existing tanks, I will probably never buy aurum again, period ever.
Its not legality issues at stake, its ethics.
They can take those tanks off the market and sell updated versions of the tanks, but they should never, ever, mess with the existing tanks that were already purchased.
If the AA pack is still on the market, the best solution would be to take it down now. Redo the stats, and upload it back up.
The existing tanks will remain, and just slow be removed from the market through attrition and vehicle destruction.
They shouldn't implement refunds or anything like that... just leave the already purchased tanks the way they are.
1000% agreed.
This is the most simple and most ethical option which will not lost CCP money or customers, and will not have any negative impact on the game.
Trust me, they WILL be destroyed... I have already lost 20 or more Creodron HAVs. |
eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 18:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
BUMP
OP please change the title of the post to something shorter, more precise, and less rage sounding. Reformat your OP using paragraphs, remove negative tone and focus more on keeping the current creodron and updating ONLY future sales. Will remove this text afterwards. |
eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 19:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Skittles McDuckett wrote:
The sad thing is that I have to buy a bunch of merc packs since they are going away(or at least changing) on the 14th.
I am holding out on buying anymore merc packs until I find out weather CCP is going to start changing stats of items purchased with real money.... it's a trust issue now.
Note: CCP could be really cool and send me a PM saying they will keep the current purchases the same and make a new pack tonight during maintenance... that way I could go spend a couple hundred bucks on the armor packs... I would too. Is CCP that smart?... LOL ... or will they do the opposite? |
eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 19:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Skittles McDuckett wrote:eKona vinDar wrote:Skittles McDuckett wrote:
The sad thing is that I have to buy a bunch of merc packs since they are going away(or at least changing) on the 14th.
I am holding out on buying anymore merc packs until I find out weather CCP is going to start changing stats of items purchased with real money.... it's a trust issue now. Note: CCP could be really cool and send me a PM saying they will keep the current purchases the same and make a new pack tonight during maintenance... that way I could go spend a couple hundred bucks on the armor packs... I would too. Is CCP that smart?... LOL ... or will they do the opposite? CCP, feel free to send me that message too
If they where REALLY cool, and really funny, and REALLY smart... they could put the current armor packs on the main screen of the market advertised as a "OOPS! Sale!"... let everyone know they are changing the pack at X time and let whoever wants to spend the money buy what they want.... give CCP a nice cash boost... repair reputation with tankers... give the game something fun and something competitive against all the wackness of mess ups.
With all they did to screw up tanks... the Creodron has been the only saving grace.... and saving face... which they are about to undo! |
eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
16
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:1. Did the terms of sale include the stats on the tanks? No. Your "false advertising" claim is invalid.
2. Did the terms of sale specify that the tanks are "Militia" vehicles? Yes. You should have been expecting Militia stats.
3. Is DUST advertised as specifically NOT being pay-to-win and has it had multiple weapons and modules with better-than-ISK-variant stats rebalanced to function identically to the ISK version? Yes. You should have, at worst, been expecting the same statlines as the Gunnlogi and Madrugar, but without the prerequisites.
The armor pack is priced much higher than the cost of the AUR for militia grade equipment, and equipment comparable to items requiring skills but without the prereqs.
Who in the right mind would spend real money for militia tanks? I can see how people would purchase it once to see if it was worth it.... but if you then go and spend a bunch more money you are doing so because of the stats the item has. To have that item nerfed later is bait and switch, bottom line. There is no way around that.
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eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
16
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
BUMP |
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eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 20:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Who in their right mind would pay money for items in a closed beta without a promise of those items being refunded on release?
Oh yeah, WE DIDN'T. Merc Pack came with exactly that promise when many people bought it. I haven't seen many voices supporting our rights, and unlike your complaint, the stats you're complaining about weren't included in the terms of the purchase agreement you made. The Merc Pack's conditions on purchase specifically included mention of a full credit on release, which is now, after the fact, being made conditional on a case-by-case reset rather than being applied as agreed.
I don't see many people supporting that argument in these forums, but you seem perfectly content to complain about a less-valid desire to keep pay-to-win items that you really should have seen the nerf-hammer coming for.
This thread is about the armor pack, not the merc pack. The fact that I have not complained about the merc pack in this thread is a ridiculous argument.
I did not purchase the armor pack in closed beta. As far as I know, nobody could purchase anything in closed beta. This was OPEN beta. Open beta is completely different. It is rare that a game will have any kind of full reset, full redo of skills, of everything, going from open beta to full release. RARE.
Open beta is a general term almost all free to play/micro transaction system games use. Only a limited amount of select people participate in closed beta. EVERYONE can participate in open beta. In effect, open beta IS the full release, with an excuse for remaining bugs.
Open beta is also when the pay to play items open up... and so it is natural that one would expect that if the developer is selling those items for real money, they are complete and in their final form. It is sloppy, unprofessional, and bad for business to begin selling items via MTS without considering those items. In this case it is a face plant fail on CCP's part that they did not consider that people with higher SP can and will purchase the armor pack and fit NON militia modules.
What kind of company doesn't consider that? Why would anyone NOT put better modules on the Creodron if they could? Why did CCP put that much PG on it in the first place? The tanks does not come with modules that use all that power grid, so for CCP to say "it was not our intention" is a lie or they are just plain dumb.
At this point, I am considering the possibility that CCP released the armor pack knowing how it would be used, because they are the developers and should know that someone with the right skills can fit that tank well.... so they knew that.... which means they knew that it would be a selling point, and that most tankers who bought that pack would buy more after trying it out.... and with this knowledge, knowing that they are selling people an item because of that one specific attribute, after people have purchased several of these packs they decide to reduce that one specific attribute making the whole package worthless.
BAIT AND SWITCH! |
eKona vinDar
WarRavens Orion Empire
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 20:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
They are not being balanced evenly acording to the change. They are being nerfed below balance. Balance would mean if an ISK tank got nerfed 10% PG, and AUR tank would get nerfed 10% PG.
Either way it doesn't matter because in the end that's not what I paid for.
Just be happy people like us are willing to pay for things so people like you don't have to. |
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