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[CCP] it's time. CUT the Gordian Knot

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Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 239	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:25:00 - [1] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=483247#post483247 It's time. Fact getting rid of SP cap and allowing for higher SP gains buys you time to fiddle the numbers and if thing need client side changes is quells the anger because ppl will just focus on unlocking stuff and playing the game trying to bash. The FPS powergrinders will feel they have a shot against the bitter vets and it will hide some of the larger issue or at the least BUY YOU TIME. In addition the turn acceleration on controller and mouse i think is the source of a lot of the aiming issues but i could be wrong. either that issue needs to be solved. Prioritize these things and it gives you time to work on the other stuff of which there are plenty of threads. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73280 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74613&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73510&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73703&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74697&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73100&find=unread These are some mix of feedback on gameplay and process issues. There are tons more but to even begin right now. Like i said expert panels just like a congressional committee would run Experts in tanks/Vehicle vs Experts in AV Experts in CQC infantry vs Midrange vs SR/LR etc etc etc You need to either reach people in the community that understand FPS balance or at the least can argue their side while another argues their side and you decide where the balance is. Or hire pro FPS players like other game devs do and consult them on balance issues. But in the mean time CUT THE GORDIAN KNOT. Oh and the no lifers will be ultra powerful holds no value in this suggestion because characters GROW WIDER NOT TALLER, so lets nip that bs in the bud now.
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy 376	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:26:00 - [2] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Oh and the no lifers will be ultra powerful holds no value in this suggestion because characters GROW WIDER NOT TALLER, so lets nip that bs in the bud now. What does that even mean?
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1432	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:28:00 - [3] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=483247#post483247 It's time. Fact getting rid of SP cap and allowing for higher SP gains buys you time to fiddle the numbers and if thing need client side changes is quells the anger because ppl will just focus on unlocking stuff and playing the game trying to bash. The FPS powergrinders will feel they have a shot against the bitter vets and it will hide some of the larger issue or at the least BUY YOU TIME. In addition the turn acceleration on controller and mouse i think is the source of a lot of the aiming issues but i could be wrong. either that issue needs to be solved. Prioritize these things and it gives you time to work on the other stuff of which there are plenty of threads. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73280 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74613&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73510&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73703&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74697&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73100&find=unread These are some mix of feedback on gameplay and process issues. There are tons more but to even begin right now. Like i said expert panels just like a congressional committee would run Experts in tanks/Vehicle vs Experts in AV Experts in CQC infantry vs Midrange vs SR/LR etc etc etc You need to either reach people in the community that understand FPS balance or at the least can argue their side while another argues their side and you decide where the balance is. Or hire pro FPS players like other game devs do and consult them on balance issues. But in the mean time CUT THE GORDIAN KNOT. Oh and the no lifers will be ultra powerful holds no value in this suggestion because characters GROW WIDER NOT TALLER, so lets nip that bs in the bud now. It's not BS when you talk about new players having no chance with the way the system is now. You are wrong, and you will continue to be wrong as long as you pursue this. Give it up.
Balzich Rotaine Rotaine Shipping Inc 60	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:29:00 - [4] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Oh and the no lifers will be ultra powerful holds no value in this suggestion because characters GROW WIDER NOT TALLER, so lets nip that bs in the bud now. What does that even mean? It means he wants to go play insect Armageddon
Icy Xenosmilus Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 111	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:30:00 - [5] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Oh and the no lifers will be ultra powerful holds no value in this suggestion because characters GROW WIDER NOT TALLER, so lets nip that bs in the bud now. What does that even mean? Only so far you can skill into one role before skill kicks in, therefore you expand into other roles. +1 good thread.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1482	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:31:00 - [6] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Oh and the no lifers will be ultra powerful holds no value in this suggestion because characters GROW WIDER NOT TALLER, so lets nip that bs in the bud now. What does that even mean? That you can only invest in role so much before you run out of skills to invest in, after that you have to invest into other roles/skills. Basically he wants proto everything really quickly.
Schalac 17 Murderz for hire 81	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:32:00 - [7] - Quote I think they should just double the current cap. Sure the hardcore will gain double the SP, but the casuals that only play on the weekend will have more days to gain added SP. As it stands today you can cap out in 1-2 days. If you double it you add another 1-2 days for the hardcore effectively bringing their meaningful playtime up to 4 days out of 7, and allow the casuals to play all weekend never hitting the cap. That sounds like a sound solution to me.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2843	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:33:00 - [8] - Quote All of my feedback fits neatly in 'no'
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 204	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:37:00 - [9] - Quote A long winded way to ask for more SP? How about play that game with what you have... and play with more when you earn it. Speed of progression shouldn't be the determining factor here. Now, there are issues for new players, and just matching them up or letting them opt into games with higher skill levels would do the job.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 244	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:47:00 - [10] - Quote Hey kiddies, i already have 12M SP and have my logi im not hurting at all. My getting into more proto suits doesnt break the game. New players not being even able to touch me for 4 months DOES. /debate.

Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 244	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:48:00 - [11] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: It's not BS when you talk about new players having no chance with the way the system is now. You are wrong, and you will continue to be wrong as long as you pursue this. Give it up. Elaborarte this please, i want to see your thinking here.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 207	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:50:00 - [12] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: New players not being even able to touch me for 4 months DOES. Easy to solve... once they get around to it. However, not sure if you are as god like as you claim...
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1441	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:54:00 - [13] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: It's not BS when you talk about new players having no chance with the way the system is now. You are wrong, and you will continue to be wrong as long as you pursue this. Give it up. Elaborarte this please, i want to see your thinking here. Haven't you been following the other threads posted by the IMPS themselves talking about how new players have no chance in this game due to SP gain being somewhat time based by the weekly cap? What happens when you take the weekly cap off, and you have a good portion of our community that would be, say, out of class and not working over the summer? Any new player ends up 3 times as ****** as they would have been with the current system. Like you said, you can only get wider, not higher, so why change at all?
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 418	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:55:00 - [14] - Quote No. Cap needs to remain. I think it's good right now that players can't proto into anything and everything. However a rolling cap would be nice, which would give new players the ability to "catch up" if they felt like grinding like crazy. Plus if we miss a weeks cap, we won't lose that SP forever.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1482	Posted - 2013.05.09 01:04:00 - [15] - Quote I'm calling malcanis's law on this one.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 246	Posted - 2013.05.09 01:10:00 - [16] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: It's not BS when you talk about new players having no chance with the way the system is now. You are wrong, and you will continue to be wrong as long as you pursue this. Give it up. Elaborarte this please, i want to see your thinking here. Haven't you been following the other threads posted by the IMPS themselves talking about how new players have no chance in this game due to SP gain being somewhat time based by the weekly cap? What happens when you take the weekly cap off, and you have a good portion of our community that would be, say, out of class and not working over the summer? Any new player ends up 3 times as ****** as they would have been with the current system. Like you said, you can only get wider, not higher, so why change at all? Are you dense or do you not even see the clear conclusion in your own reasoning. A new player will be behind under both systems but under no cap they can at least grind hard in the beginning to reach a speacility and then stop. If power grinder continue all they are doing is adding versatility. But it lets the new player up to fight speed faster and thats the point. So yea me thinks you dont understand the fundamental issue of how an FPS player wants to PVP and get in the fight, not shoot at drones or other lame parts of the game. And since they are hardcore FPS players and not failed EVE carebears trying to make their mark in DUSt; they dont need their handheld with an artificial regulation(sp caps) to force them to specialize or teach them how to use a gun they understand these basic because they aren't noobs in FPS. Just goes to show carebears are desperate to hold onto their SP advantage for as long as they can over new players because if this game became about player skills they'd quit tomorrow with no handholding to cushion how bad at PVP they really are.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 207	Posted - 2013.05.09 01:26:00 - [17] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: ... What a pile of crap. Half of the long term residents here talk about never missing their cap, always having boosters and so forth, you think new players are going to catch up on that? You are either severely mistaken or just making **** up to support your own preferences.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 248	Posted - 2013.05.09 01:41:00 - [18] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: ... What a pile of crap. Half of the long term residents here talk about never missing their cap, always having boosters and so forth, you think new players are going to catch up on that? You are either severely mistaken or just making **** up to support your own preferences. Im going to be nice for a change. You misunderstand. New players never need catch up in SP. They only need to acquire enough to get thier first proto suit, proto weapon, core skills and whatever modules they need to get thier speciality filled out. Just because we grind week in and week out doesnt mean every FPS player will want to, Fact is the FPS players that came here came here willing to endure it but we had faith CCP would devise new players to get into this game. TBH if it wasnt for the TQ migration i would have struggled for months before i could compete and in all honesty i just wouldnt stick around and im the hardcore RPG guy that that farms Long Gui's and Shao long gui's for the parts i need to get all the items i need for treasure hunter trophy and plat FF13(that was an effing grind). But im the exception and we are all here playing Dust already. IF you want new players you need a way to get them in. I could have a 100M SP it doesnt matter as long as new players can get thier first 20M or whatever quickly. Hell even if they added an acceleration curve and had no cap on accounts until they reach 20M SP and you would be okay. But if they cant do that then just uncap the SP.
Goretint Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:19:00 - [19] - Quote Quote: Im going to be nice for a change. You misunderstand. New players never need catch up in SP. They only need to acquire enough to get thier first proto suit, proto weapon, core skills and whatever modules they need to get thier speciality filled out. I could have a 100M SP it doesnt matter as long as new players can get thier first 20M or whatever quickly. Hell even if they added an acceleration curve and had no cap on accounts until they reach 20M SP and you would be okay. But if they cant do that then just uncap the SP. So what you're really saying is you want instant gratification, arcade style progression to get all the top end equipment so you can Rambo around making noobs cry and worship your god-like grind abilities and be jealous of your proto fits? New players do fine when they learn to play as a team. On top of all that, if every new player was running around in proto right away instead of having to work for it, the game would get boring real quick. Besides, CCP makes it pretty clear that you arent supposed to be able to max out for YEARS, so anyone who's surprised they can't get the best stuff the first week wasn't paying attention.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 832	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:48:00 - [20] - Quote Sure. One has to admire your dedication. So why the hell not? But everything should have its natural hard counter, no? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74804&find=unread

Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 207	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:57:00 - [21] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Im going to be nice for a change. Well, then I'll have to respectfully disagree this time. Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: I could have a 100M SP it doesnt matter as long as new players can get thier first 20M or whatever quickly. Hell even if they added an acceleration curve and had no cap on accounts until they reach 20M SP and you would be okay. But if they cant do that then just uncap the SP. Have you played EVE? I'm not slighting you if you haven't. However, CCP has this way of progressing the game over time that involves new skills. While I agree that the relative difference can go down as long as older players can't earn a lot more than newer players there is always a hill for the new players if that isn't true. Tech 2 or Tech 3 variants with much better attributes. New skills to train that modify fittings, damage, aim, etc. There is no need to imagine there will ever be an end to progressing. However, you are right, you will also want to widen up. I was just getting into decent level weapons other than the sniper rifle before uprising put me back into a single role situation. All I want is a challenge. I want a role that I can give better than I get 7 out of 10 times. I want to know I make a difference on the battlefield and that I can pick off people in better gear. That's it. Eventually, I'll want to be able to do this in a wider variety of roles.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 568	Posted - 2013.05.09 03:07:00 - [22] - Quote As much as you **** and moan about everything, why do you even play Dust 514? There's plenty of other generic FPS you can play where you don't have to feel threatened by players that are committed to one game with lots of content compared to a new sequel coming out every year that you have to buy at retail. Right now, the only commitment I see from you is whining.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 248	Posted - 2013.05.09 03:22:00 - [23] - Quote Goretint wrote: Quote: Im going to be nice for a change. You misunderstand. New players never need catch up in SP. They only need to acquire enough to get thier first proto suit, proto weapon, core skills and whatever modules they need to get thier speciality filled out. I could have a 100M SP it doesnt matter as long as new players can get thier first 20M or whatever quickly. Hell even if they added an acceleration curve and had no cap on accounts until they reach 20M SP and you would be okay. But if they cant do that then just uncap the SP. So what you're really saying is you want instant gratification, arcade style progression to get all the top end equipment so you can Rambo around making noobs cry and worship your god-like grind abilities and be jealous of your proto fits? New players do fine when they learn to play as a team. On top of all that, if every new player was running around in proto right away instead of having to work for it, the game would get boring real quick. Besides, CCP makes it pretty clear that you arent supposed to be able to max out for YEARS, so anyone who's surprised they can't get the best stuff the first week wasn't paying attention. Source this please instead of talking out of your rectum. No the idea of maxxing out for YEARS comes from EVE players likening a single proto suit to ships that can take up to a year to build in EVE. First off the proto suits are no where near the leap in tech that these ships are to cheaper smaller ships. Next Maxxing a character in Dust is not the same line of thinking as maxxing in EVE where in DUST a max level character can easily be considered the one that is versatile. As versatility is the power of FPS players. Those that can transitions from one thing to another in single match. It creates a dynamic battlefield that shifts as the minds of two human being juxtaposition to outthink and outplay the other. The very fact that you think players need to be taught to play in teams and that Ramboing is a viable option or desirable in this game at the competitive levels shows exactly why carebears are ruining Dust. Because a good player and a good team know that it doesnt matter how many proto suits you have if you cant aim and you can't play as a team in this game. Soloing is only viable in pub matches because thats where all the noobs live (by noobs i mean carebear noobs, not new players who have played FPS before). So maybe if you had any sense about you instead of trying to protect your SP advantage you'd get that but hey i get it if I were at FPS and PVP in general id cling on with my dying breath for the status quo since its the only chance i have left at maintaining the notion im good at this game. In the meantime CCP maintains the game fresh with the added content they plan down the road, market, looting, raiding, economy, and PERSISTENCE AND PERPETUAL WAR. Keep wrecking the game and making it worse with all your selfishness, go ahead and tell me im the one we know your lack of supporting arguments proves that you and everyone else that is trying to block this are the ones hindering this game and its access to new players. Learning to play as a team comes from seeing organized teams utterly crushing others. When players aren't on equal footing they insulate themselves by saying well if we had better gear we would be as good as X. We saw a few corps follow this trajectory and they failcascaded into nothingness. But moreover for a sandbox game you sure seem to want a lot of handholding and "forcing players into learning" experience is the best teacher. But give them a fighting chance.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 215	Posted - 2013.05.09 04:31:00 - [24] - Quote If anything the active SP gain is too fast. Reduce the gained active SP by 1/10 and the removing the cap might work. If you are good at fps then SP doesn't mean anything and if you are bad SP doesn't mean anything. The top 10% say that noobs can't compete and the bottom 10% want everything for free and it seems like that is a majority of forum posters. The idea that a proto suit is a win button is stupid, I suck at this game and any amount of SP or proto gear will not help me. Get off the SP grind and the game is pretty fun, stay on the SP ground and it is stressful.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 250	Posted - 2013.05.09 04:59:00 - [25] - Quote Cosgar wrote: As much as you **** and moan about everything, why do you even play Dust 514? There's plenty of other generic FPS you can play where you don't have to feel threatened by players that are committed to one game with lots of content compared to a new sequel coming out every year that you have to buy at retail. Right now, the only commitment I see from you is whining. I play Dust because it has potential and for its persistance. Because it should have a player driven market, looting, raiding and more. The Grind is not needed nor warranted. The only ones who want are eve players who think dust is eve. It isn't. Its a different window into the same universe. You see whining i say valid criticism. But you keep quoting the CCP EVE formula as if it will work in this genre. Your placation is what drives the game development down and prevents any sort of meaningful progress. Perhaps if you kept quiet or the least provided a proper response other than its not MMO so it can be in DUST. Have i asked for lower health? Have i asked for twich? Have i asked for no classes? Have I asked for anything that makes this game COD, BF or other games, yes and no. I asked for the core gameplay mechanics to be combined with the BEST parts of EVE. So as i said CCP cut the Gordian knot you were prepared to do it and you let the carebears talk you out of it, just do it and tout their favorite catchphrase back at them. HTFU.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 250	Posted - 2013.05.09 05:06:00 - [26] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: If anything the active SP gain is too fast. Reduce the gained active SP by 1/10 and the removing the cap might work. If you are good at fps then SP doesn't mean anything and if you are bad SP doesn't mean anything. The top 10% say that noobs can't compete and the bottom 10% want everything for free and it seems like that is a majority of forum posters. The idea that a proto suit is a win button is stupid, I suck at this game and any amount of SP or proto gear will not help me. Get off the SP grind and the game is pretty fun, stay on the SP ground and it is stressful. To an extent i agree with you. The grind is stressful and it shouldn't be the point of the game. However in every game where there is PVP the goal is to grind to reach a level footing. Whether real or perceived(real imo) proto gear will make an impact in games played against good vs good players. Yes a noob in proto gear is still a noob but by limiting players of skill from reaching the gear levels fast enough that they can compete at their "skill" level is key otherwise the game fundamentally fails as an FPS. In FPS the grind isnt about unlocking everything its about being able to compete. The "grind" at the very least should be getting players to that competitive place as quickly as possible, then the persistence and other aspects of the MMO keep it going. PC if done properly will be a player driven content generator for quite some time. But you have to get players to that point, it wont happen if they see that i would take them months. I have 4 mos of SP and im just barely where i need it to be but once im at 15M i know im fine. 20M and im golden. 30M and really there is no problem. But that is 1 year of play just to be able to compete. That doesnt fly in PVP. The only reason EVE gets away with it is because of single shard and open world. Where a tech 1 frigate can still be of use in a PVP fleet comp just because of sheer size.
Stands Alone Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2013.05.09 05:20:00 - [27] - Quote you really dont know how EVE works judging by that last statement it would take you a year? oh no.... we will shed a tear for you... i have like 4.5 mil sp... guess how much of it i use in an avg battle where i am the usually in the top 5 in WP... lets see... how much SP does a militia suit take? well thats my second most used suit... how much SP does my first used suit take? about none... its costs 8000isk... and i do pretty well in it if i play my role right... i do just fine in my militia suit. why cant you?
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 250	Posted - 2013.05.09 05:48:00 - [28] - Quote Stands Alone wrote: you really dont know how EVE works judging by that last statement it would take you a year? oh no.... we will shed a tear for you... i have like 4.5 mil sp... guess how much of it i use in an avg battle where i am the usually in the top 5 in WP... lets see... how much SP does a militia suit take? well thats my second most used suit... how much SP does my first used suit take? about none... its costs 8000isk... and i do pretty well in it if i play my role right... i do just fine in my militia suit. why cant you? DUST =\= EVE. This is why you continually fail in your feedback. Perhaps you carebears HTFU and accept that this game will not be the vindication for your awful PVP skill in EVE or whatever hopes you were pinning on this game. The game will need to go more FPS MMO and move away from MMO FPS. CCP made the mistake of catering to you noobs when you got beta access when development was moving pretty smoothly before that. As for you example of miltiia suits working fine. This is clear cut evidence you have no idea what you are talking about. Plase bring those into FW or better yet into PC against ANY closed beta team or major alliance. CCP also clearly balanced this game around pub data thats why this game is so out of whack. When you sample size includes a wide amount of fanbois who are terrible at FPS the game gets worse. but thats worthy of a topic in itself. Your performance is irrelevant because you don't play against good team in organized matches. If you did or had the drive to compete at that level you'd understand why new players wont want to simply grind for months to get at that level.
Garrus Vik'arian Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 13	Posted - 2013.05.09 05:55:00 - [29] - Quote Thinking about it, if CCP removes the SP cap, what the heck am I supposed to do with 5 months (5 x 30 Days) of unused Active SP Booster and 8 months (8 x 30 Days) of unused Passive SP Booster?
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 580	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:02:00 - [30] - Quote Stands Alone wrote: you really dont know how EVE works judging by that last statement it would take you a year? oh no.... we will shed a tear for you... i have like 4.5 mil sp... guess how much of it i use in an avg battle where i am the usually in the top 5 in WP... lets see... how much SP does a militia suit take? well thats my second most used suit... how much SP does my first used suit take? about none... its costs 8000isk... and i do pretty well in it if i play my role right... i do just fine in my militia suit. why cant you? Nah, he's just afraid of commitment. Unlike those AAA floozies that puts out on the first couple of dates Dust is different. Dust is that girl you have to talk on the phone with, go on some dates, move in with after a while, eventually put a ring on her finger. She gets better with the passing years, rewarding you for the time you put in. Dust requires commitment.

Stands Alone Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:09:00 - [31] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Stands Alone wrote: you really dont know how EVE works judging by that last statement it would take you a year? oh no.... we will shed a tear for you... i have like 4.5 mil sp... guess how much of it i use in an avg battle where i am the usually in the top 5 in WP... lets see... how much SP does a militia suit take? well thats my second most used suit... how much SP does my first used suit take? about none... its costs 8000isk... and i do pretty well in it if i play my role right... i do just fine in my militia suit. why cant you? DUST =\= EVE. This is why you continually fail in your feedback. Perhaps you carebears HTFU and accept that this game will not be the vindication for your awful PVP skill in EVE or whatever hopes you were pinning on this game. The game will need to go more FPS MMO and move away from MMO FPS. CCP made the mistake of catering to you noobs when you got beta access when development was moving pretty smoothly before that. As for you example of miltiia suits working fine. This is clear cut evidence you have no idea what you are talking about. Plase bring those into FW or better yet into PC against ANY closed beta team or major alliance. CCP also clearly balanced this game around pub data thats why this game is so out of whack. When you sample size includes a wide amount of fanbois who are terrible at FPS the game gets worse. but thats worthy of a topic in itself. Your performance is irrelevant because you don't play against good team in organized matches. If you did or had the drive to compete at that level you'd understand why new players wont want to simply grind for months to get at that level. i use the proto when i need to... otherwise i do fine.... its pretty funny how you are telling us htfu when you are whining about how long it takes to get better gear.... probably because you just suck at FPS... lol and try to tell us more about EVE please.. its amusing to hear
13th Clone The Merc Net 0	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:21:00 - [32] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Hey kiddies, i already have 12M SP and have my logi im not hurting at all. My getting into more proto suits doesnt break the game. New players not being even able to touch me for 4 months DOES. /debate. Yeah I see this at 3.1 mil sp pretty much this build level 3 drop suit enhanced armour and shields it doesn't matter what my actual skills in fps are I feel useless supposedly fw and pc will change pub stomping but I don't see them not dropping in to increase their kdr at least with last build I could stand a chance to hold my ground .
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 256	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:42:00 - [33] - Quote Garrus Vik'arian wrote: Thinking about it, if CCP removes the SP cap, what the heck am I supposed to do with 5 months (5 x 30 Days) of unused Active SP Booster and 8 months (8 x 30 Days) of unused Passive SP Booster? Refund your aurum(like they did with UVT), or they still work in that they increase you SP gains by 50% so there is that.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 256	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:46:00 - [34] - Quote Stands Alone wrote: i use the proto when i need to... otherwise i do fine.... its pretty funny how you are telling us htfu when you are whining about how long it takes to get better gear.... probably because you just suck at FPS... lol and try to tell us more about EVE please.. its amusing to hear Bout as amusing as watching you carebears try to be good at FPS. Like i said i got my suits and skills, dont even need them but they are ready just the same. LOL that you still think im talkiing about making it easier for noobs to fight us in Pubs doesnt get that GOOD FPS players want to compete against the best while being on level ground. Getting them to FW and PC faster is good for the longevity of the game because getting them into perpetual warfare while not feeling like they arent on equal footing or at the least have closed enough of the gap that they feel skill is a factor. Flame a lil harder next time. Perhaps you should stick to mining or whatever carebear activity you were failing in EVE at, while the real PVPers talk about how to balance PVP related stuff.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 256	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:48:00 - [35] - Quote 13th Clone wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Hey kiddies, i already have 12M SP and have my logi im not hurting at all. My getting into more proto suits doesnt break the game. New players not being even able to touch me for 4 months DOES. /debate. Yeah I see this at 3.1 mil sp pretty much this build level 3 drop suit enhanced armour and shields it doesn't matter what my actual skills in fps are I feel useless supposedly fw and pc will change pub stomping but I don't see them not dropping in to increase their kdr at least with last build I could stand a chance to hold my ground . Yea i know you cant and it took you close to a month to get the 3.1 if not more. Now imagine a fresh new character at 500K and no access to decent gear for a couple million SP. But selfish carebears want to keep you pegged down and prevent you from competing at the highest levels all so they can maintain their gear advantage.
Stands Alone Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:53:00 - [36] - Quote lol right... give me a heads up when you wanna pvp in eve.... Dust pvp doesnt compare to the losses in eve so... keep failing at FPS and blame it on your gear
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 260	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:59:00 - [37] - Quote Stands Alone wrote: lol right... give me a heads up when you wanna pvp in eve.... Dust pvp doesnt compare to the losses in eve so... keep failing at FPS and blame it on your gear Lol keep telling me im blaming my gear noob, come play us in Dust PC or FW with whatever scrub team you can manage to put together in a system that you know doesnt do my aiming and piloting for me.
Stands Alone Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2013.05.09 07:25:00 - [38] - Quote sure. but i made it fair and said only militia gear was allowed no matter fittings. then we both know how useless you would be without your precious gear you want so badly to hardcore grind to
Richard O'Connr The United Federation New Eden Dark Taboo 0	Posted - 2013.05.09 08:24:00 - [39] - Quote the SP cap is not need no more its a full game now not a beta yeah do it in that but not now there are new ppl starting DUST all the time and they will never catch up in SP get rid of it every week im hitting it cap it getting on my nerves
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 10:29:00 - [40] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Crash Monster wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: ... What a pile of crap. Half of the long term residents here talk about never missing their cap, always having boosters and so forth, you think new players are going to catch up on that? You are either severely mistaken or just making **** up to support your own preferences. Im going to be nice for a change. You misunderstand. New players never need catch up in SP. They only need to acquire enough to get thier first proto suit, proto weapon, core skills and whatever modules they need to get thier speciality filled out. Just because we grind week in and week out doesnt mean every FPS player will want to, Fact is the FPS players that came here came here willing to endure it but we had faith CCP would devise new players to get into this game. TBH if it wasnt for the TQ migration i would have struggled for months before i could compete and in all honesty i just wouldnt stick around and im the hardcore RPG guy that that farms Long Gui's and Shao long gui's for the parts i need to get all the items i need for treasure hunter trophy and plat FF13(that was an effing grind). But im the exception and we are all here playing Dust already. IF you want new players you need a way to get them in. I could have a 100M SP it doesnt matter as long as new players can get thier first 20M or whatever quickly. Hell even if they added an acceleration curve and had no cap on accounts until they reach 20M SP and you would be okay. But if they cant do that then just uncap the SP. You seem to be forgetting that the SP cost for levelling increases at higher levels. This means that higher level players will take longer to achieve their next level in a skill than it will for a newer player to reach theirs, moreso with the cap in place. With the cap in place, a high level player might only advance a level or two in one or two skills before hitting the cap, while the newer player could advance several. As the newer player begins to approach the level of the higher player, their progression gradually slows, until they eventually catch up and progression evens out. Without a cap, there is nothing stopping any player with time to spend quickly becoming uncatchable. Besides that, the cap ensures the longevity of the game. Look at games like COD, there are always certain players who binge-play, quickly achieve all the available accomplishments, and then complain that the game is stale and boring, because they've got nothing left to strive for. The cap is in place for a good reason. It is a good thing.

Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 595	Posted - 2013.05.09 10:33:00 - [41] - Quote Jaqen Morghalis wrote: You seem to be forgetting that the SP cost for levelling increases at higher levels. This means that higher level players will take longer to achieve their next level in a skill than it will for a newer player to reach theirs, moreso with the cap in place. With the cap in place, a high level player might only advance a level or two in one or two skills before hitting the cap, while the newer player could advance several. As the newer player begins to approach the level of the higher player, their progression gradually slows, until they eventually catch up and progression evens out. Without a cap, there is nothing stopping any player with time to spend quickly becoming uncatchable. Besides that, the cap ensures the longevity of the game. Look at games like COD, there are always certain players who binge-play, quickly achieve all the available accomplishments, and then complain that the game is stale and boring, because they've got nothing left to strive for. The cap is in place for a good reason. It is a good thing. Only thing that needs to be adjusted with the cap is a rollover if you miss your cap for the week. But that's a whole different story.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 260	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:49:00 - [42] - Quote Richard O'Connr wrote: the SP cap is not need no more its a full game now not a beta yeah do it in that but not now there are new ppl starting DUST all the time and they will never catch up in SP get rid of it every week im hitting it cap it getting on my nerves +1, Gets the game. Also have you ever had the opportunity to play in organized matches? Seems like people still want to balance this game around pub performances.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 260	Posted - 2013.05.09 14:18:00 - [43] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Jaqen Morghalis wrote: You seem to be forgetting that the SP cost for levelling increases at higher levels. This means that higher level players will take longer to achieve their next level in a skill than it will for a newer player to reach theirs, moreso with the cap in place. With the cap in place, a high level player might only advance a level or two in one or two skills before hitting the cap, while the newer player could advance several. As the newer player begins to approach the level of the higher player, their progression gradually slows, until they eventually catch up and progression evens out. Without a cap, there is nothing stopping any player with time to spend quickly becoming uncatchable. Besides that, the cap ensures the longevity of the game. Look at games like COD, there are always certain players who binge-play, quickly achieve all the available accomplishments, and then complain that the game is stale and boring, because they've got nothing left to strive for. The cap is in place for a good reason. It is a good thing. Only thing that needs to be adjusted with the cap is a rollover if you miss your cap for the week. But that's a whole different story. Yes there is you can only reach level 5 in a skill. All in all it take about 15-20M to max out a specialty. Any SP beyond this makes you character grow out not up, there is no level 6 skill in anything. So yes a grinder can reach those levels quickly, and while your idea on the cap preventing players from getting too far ahead may sound good in theory there is a real limitation in player progression already in level 5 skills. Moreover with many players have accumulating 10+M SP they are already ahead of new player accounts by a wide margin. Rollover isnt here and yes its supposed to be the end solution(im not against it at all, but until its here we need to do something now). And while the current system we have was voted in made sense at the time because everyone was on relatively equal footing now we are all in the same boat we have arrived at our desired endpoints and have created our fits, it only took 5months plus 2 weeks of 3x SP to get there. Imagine a new player with 500K, no rollover and capped at ~500K(if they pay). It will drive players out rather than retain. Im glad you bring up COD and games such as this. You are correct other MP games become stale so they add in prestige systems. Assassin's Creed did this and it was effing horrible. Here what prevents this game from becoming stale. The persistence and perpetual warfare. This is the part of the game FPS hardcore will love the most. FPS is PVP personified and they want good fights, problem in other shooter the matches are meaningless beyond bragging rights. In this game you get to actually take stuff away from people. The match sizes are larger and create a more epic feel. Addtionally there is plenty of content now and more will be added. You can only grind so much. Even if ppl grinded out 100M SP/year the current system would still stand for 2.5 years. That is a long time for any FPS to stand. In the meantime Gunships MAVs Tons and tons and tons of new weapons Additional suits Aircraft Space elevators Player market Supply lines(eve to dust connections) Boarding and raiding spaceships and whatever else CCP has up their sleeve I mean there are so many shut up and take my money moments in DUST from FF and we haven't even scratched the surface of that content. So please lets not act as if maxxing this current skill tree will kill this game. There is WAAAAY more content in this game than a COD or BF could offer once its fleshed out. My goal is to get new players to that content faster and make sure they have the gear to survive it, because despite what anyone may think you cant do well in this game in inferior gear at the highest levels. Against most casuals yes a milita fit can fare well(that another debate entirely, since gear was flattened during the beta to allow for easier testing b/w the entire player pool, but since they adjusted the costs the flattening is fine by me now, if they ever tierred the gap more they have to raise the prices) All in all Cosgar good points but really they arent justifiable at this stage in the game. If im being perfectly honest; having this system in place until rollover can be implemented will at least allow new players to catch up with our current veteran class. Once CCP has a rollover system in place id support that over this as well(personally i think all accounts should at least remain uncapped until 20M after which cap the crap out of it(kinda like a data plan))
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 215	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:32:00 - [44] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Stands Alone wrote: you really dont know how EVE works judging by that last statement it would take you a year? oh no.... we will shed a tear for you... i have like 4.5 mil sp... guess how much of it i use in an avg battle where i am the usually in the top 5 in WP... lets see... how much SP does a militia suit take? well thats my second most used suit... how much SP does my first used suit take? about none... its costs 8000isk... and i do pretty well in it if i play my role right... i do just fine in my militia suit. why cant you? Nah, he's just afraid of commitment. Unlike those AAA floozies that puts out on the first couple of dates Dust is different. Dust is that girl you have to talk on the phone with, go on some dates, move in with after a while, eventually put a ring on her finger. She gets better with the passing years, rewarding you for the time you put in. Dust requires commitment. Exactly.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 215	Posted - 2013.05.10 04:08:00 - [45] - Quote I see active SP at its current rate as the biggest problem. Having no cap or even a rolling cap helps cause flavor of the months. Right now the TAC AR is big because it has the best range and damage. If we had no cap everyone would grind straight into a TAC and they would get nerfed for being OP because a day one merc couldn't get it. Good players would have 100M and new players would have 5M, there will always be a gap. Put a team of proto suits good players in a match with a group of crap players with the exact same gear and it will be just like the it is now. A well organize squad of high skilled players will roll anyone who is not at the same level, gear does matter near as much as personal skill and tactics. I would bet my next paycheck that you would destroy me if I were proto and you were militia and we went 1v1. I might kill you once. The game would have to be purposefully tilted in my direction for me to win. SP wouldn't change that because I probably don't have the same gun game as you. SP only allows good players to be good in different ways and bad players a way to complain about not having enough. New players can join PC and FW with a good squad and compete if they are about the same level but if they are weak then they shouldn't be there in the first place. In 3 months a bad player can run proto but that doesn't make them a merc worth bringing into an important battle.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 880	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:57:00 - [46] - Quote No. Sorry. No. Banhammer AFK farmers. Problem solved. If people have the free time to skill up higher than cap in a week they should go volunteer at a soup kitchen or something.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2243	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:08:00 - [47] - Quote One year later and we are still debating over this stupid ****? I remember being around last year when we didn't have an SP cap and suddenly the no-lifers took over the game and went proto-everything within the first month of grinding. PS: Any suggestion that is originally intended to benefit new players will invariably benefit the veterans.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 158	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:33:00 - [48] - Quote I would prefer we get rid of Active SP all together and go with a purely passive system. No cap will never be a considered option, New Eden is built on the principle that nothing comes quick or easy. It takes time and planning! I have an alt with 1.7 mil SP, and was able to get complex shields, an advanced suit, and an advanced weapon and was able to fit out a great suit capable of competing with any suit. In all honesty a new player wouldn't have the skill or game knowledge to run a pro suit and I find that the pacing of the SP coincides with the time it takes to learn the game. As you learn more and more you get in more advanced suits which by that time you should have the income to support that suit. TL:DR give a proto to the a noob and I'll show you a bunch of broke noobs.
snowglobe42 Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.14 12:03:00 - [49] - Quote SP cap forces new players to work together and play smarter against better equipped opponents.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 395	Posted - 2013.06.20 05:15:00 - [50] - Quote Necroing a thread because the time has come.

Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 329	Posted - 2013.06.20 05:33:00 - [51] - Quote But I like how the cap guarantees me a permanent advantage over every idiot who was foolish enough to start playing after I did, it's great! It's what makes New Eden h4rdC0r3! Stupid noobs shoulda known to start playing in open beta.
darkiller240 INGLORIOUS-INQUISITION 4	Posted - 2013.06.20 06:27:00 - [52] - Quote +1
mollerz Minja Scouts 453	Posted - 2013.06.20 08:35:00 - [53] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Dust is that girl you have to talk on the phone with, go on some dates, move in with after a while, eventually put a ring on her finger. She gets better with the passing years, rewarding you for the time you put in. Dust requires commitment. There is no guarantee of that.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 851	Posted - 2013.06.20 08:57:00 - [54] - Quote I disagree. Skill cap enriches the game. I say no to removing the skill cap or the other alternative, passive SP only.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 109	Posted - 2013.06.20 09:16:00 - [55] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: \Banhammer AFK farmers. My first thought was about the MCC Carebears as well. Any changes done to skill point system need to first have a griefer litmus test.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2760	Posted - 2013.06.20 13:20:00 - [56] - Quote You went through all that trouble preparing this post only to whine about not being able to no-life the game. Harden the **** up.
Zauis Gallente Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2013.06.20 14:02:00 - [57] - Quote I think the SP cap should be slightly raised but not removed altogether. Or an increase depending on your all time SP. 190k is too low.
Zauis Gallente Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2013.06.20 14:05:00 - [58] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: No. Sorry. No. Banhammer AFK farmers. Problem solved. If people have the free time to skill up higher than cap in a week they should go volunteer at a soup kitchen or something. And what if there's no "soup kitchen" in the immediate vicinity?
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 398	Posted - 2013.06.20 14:10:00 - [59] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: You went through all that trouble preparing this post only to whine about not being able to no-life the game. Harden the **** up. Are you purposelessly dense or have you not figured out this has little benefit for the veteran players. What part of grow Wider not Taller do you not get or have you been gone for so long from this game you don't see the increasing disparity between New and Veteran players. An uncapped system allows new players to get to that precious 10-15M SP mark and gets them into battle shape a faster pace. The more battle ready the more likely you begin to see people venturing into higher competitive arenas which gives more content to the veterans who are basically isolated to closed beta testers. Perhaps its more selfishness on your part after all if New players can start amassing huge chunks of SP they become more viable for recruiter corps who can train them up properly and teach them how to spec which would basically make your University utterly irrelevant. Most FPS groups like to train their own, only reason you serve a purpose currently is we dont want to wait for weeks-months to get a person in fighting shape before we mold them. This is the biggest reason why there shouldn't be a cap. This nonsense that having a cap forces you to choose how to spend your SP and "teaches" you how to play your role is utter nonsense. Good corps and good FPS players can do that they simply need people at a requisite level to make them viable first before they can assess their skill and train them. Synergy does a great job of this and its why they add great talent to their ranks but the supply is limited because there is a massive lag time to get players there. This would help create a recruiting boom of new players and veteran corps would actively start scouting for fresh talent. Add to this new player corps who come over from other games or simply are eager to knock the current Kings of the Hill of their perch actually have a shot at doing so. So yea go ahead and tell me its about ME wanting to no-life the game sounds like its more about you protecting your way of playing the game more than anything else, i simply seek to unleash the shackles placed on new players. Me on the other hand I have 15M SP That has me flush in 2 proto weapons and advanced weapon, a proto specialty and basic suit, a Logi LAV and all the core skills needed to make it all work. I dont login to hit my cap anymore cause I don't need it and instead play other games in between Dusting. I have all I need to make my character work for what I want to play. Every additional piece of SP is just more versatility but that's what my teammates are for so I don't have to be a swiss army knife of one. /lawyered(marshal erickson)
Exionous VETERAN SNIPERS 0	Posted - 2013.06.20 15:38:00 - [60] - Quote Can we have a translator for you? Because I understood about every fifth word you said. Anyways that SP cap is the only thing stopping the people that play this a bit too much from having everything in the game by now. It was a nice try to get that boundless HMG with your Ak.0, but... nope.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2762	Posted - 2013.06.20 15:39:00 - [61] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: You went through all that trouble preparing this post only to whine about not being able to no-life the game. Harden the **** up. Are you purposelessly dense or have you not figured out this has little benefit for the veteran players. Purposefully dense. I have seen the negative effects already of having no SP cap and so has CCP. Much of the community has already voted on the matter long ago and CCP has already made up their mind about it. The SP cap is here to stay forever and ever. In case you weren't around during the vote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=52633&find=unread
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 30	Posted - 2013.06.20 16:14:00 - [62] - Quote Yeahno. Why improve the game more for people who already enjoy it enough to cap at the cost of making the game worse for people who AREN'T guaranteed to invest time into the game?
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 317	Posted - 2013.06.20 16:41:00 - [63] - Quote I got 14 mil SP. I have always supported no cap. The cap did not stop me from out SPing many. If that was its purpose it failed. Now it holds the new guys back from ever catching up. Especially since dust is in such a poor state. People dont even bother to cap anymore, game play is stagnant. Same maps with the same mercs. Boring.
KA24DERT Not Guilty EoN. 61	Posted - 2013.06.20 17:05:00 - [64] - Quote The solution to new players getting stomped in pubs is proper matchmaking. The solution to giving rewards to the players that work for them, is to give rewards to players that work for them. Fix Matchmaking. Remove the cap. You silly people are making this simple problem into a hard one.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 735	Posted - 2013.06.20 17:09:00 - [65] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: All of my feedback fits neatly in 'no' Yeah, same here. What Dust needs is a better matchmaking system. This will alleviate the frustrations that new players have without allowing the no lifers to burn through the skill tree. It's supposed to take a long time to gain skills. Get over it.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2763	Posted - 2013.06.20 17:18:00 - [66] - Quote I agree. Matchmaking is a way better alternative than just removing the cap.
RoundEy3 Metal Mind Industries 117	Posted - 2013.06.20 17:23:00 - [67] - Quote Yes, there is a skill cap. No you can not get to lv. 999999 in 2 weeks. No.
KA24DERT Not Guilty EoN. 61	Posted - 2013.06.20 18:35:00 - [68] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: It's supposed to take a long time to gain skills. Get over it. What if a person wants to put more of their personal time in to get skills? Most of the comments in this thread are attacking "no lifers" as if they have done them some personal harm. Seems to me this is just a sense of entitlement to your current position in the skill tree, and lord forbid some 'n00b tryhard' encroach on your accomplishment. Get over yourselves and let people earn rewards relative to their investment of time.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 440	Posted - 2013.06.20 18:52:00 - [69] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Buster Friently wrote: It's supposed to take a long time to gain skills. Get over it. What if a person wants to put more of their personal time in to get skills? Most of the comments in this thread are attacking "no lifers" as if they have done them some personal harm. Seems to me this is just a sense of entitlement to your current position in the skill tree, and lord forbid some 'n00b tryhard' encroach on your accomplishment. Get over yourselves and let people earn rewards relative to their investment of time. In fact, most of the high SP players are against the cap. Its the mid-SP players that are afraid of high SP players pulling away from them that are so against it.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 306	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:18:00 - [70] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: The solution to new players getting stomped in pubs is proper matchmaking. The solution to giving rewards to the players that work for them, is to give rewards to players that work for them. Fix Matchmaking. Remove the cap. You silly people are making this simple problem into a hard one. What about FW or PC, or pub matches with a squad?

mollerz Minja Scouts 466	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:20:00 - [71] - Quote I think every time CCP plans to change the skill tree, they should figure out a % of adjustment, and use that to increase the cap (or decrease). They are intrinsically tied, and to adjust one without consideration of the other.. again, is a real head scratcher. Yea- we voted on a system based on an extinct skill tree. we really should have a new vote based on the new system. But my gosh, how epic would it be to accomplish something like that given.... everything
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 407	Posted - 2013.06.20 21:58:00 - [72] - Quote Again is everyone here purposely dense or fail to simply understand the basics of competitive FPS play. When i say competitive i dont mean MLG i just mean the very nature of who FPS players generally are. This isn't WoW with Guns people don't play FPS to toil around and develop and grow a character they play it to shoot people in the face and to do it at the highest levels whatever that may be in game. They generally want to do it in organized matches with their friends and they certainly don't want to be at a handicap due to a time factor. Better matchmaking only works if you have a player count to support it, notice the increase in match instability last week or two. Because there arent enough players in the pool to find nearby connections to you so you have increasing ping rates. Again you cannot max out a character and what does a max character even mean in this game, its certainly no more powerful then a character with 15M SP, its simply more versatile. Big difference. You would want to restrict new players and think oh as long as they are safe from veterans they will continue to play at a leisurely pace and not worry about the difference between them and veteran players WRONG. FPS players want to compete its the very nature of the genre to battle opponents in a game of guns and tactics. To do that they need SP if they want to fight where the vets live PC, FW and yes to a degree Pubs. People don't get lost in the notion that matchmaking solves an issue of player imbalance that is a totally different argument, this is about removing the governor off of the accelerator so people can get to the most competitive parts of the game. To deny this to players out of the ludicrous notion that it should take a long time to max a character is utter nonsense. Further more those that say that once a player reaches a max character they will no longer play, tacitly implies that the only content and reason for logging on is gaining SP to progress your character. To say that this game shouldn't be about SP and by having more metagame and end game stuff that will allow people do something post cap and not feel the 24/7 need to grind implies that there should be more to this game then leveling (i agree) but to get to those arenas players need the requisite SP to compete. This is not EVE where new players can after 2 weeks of training and skilling can get into massive fleet comps and begin to immediately wreck shop so that phiolosophy doesn't apply. /checkmate. GG
LADY MYATO QcGOLD Astroya Conglomerate 8	Posted - 2013.06.20 22:03:00 - [73] - Quote Vote here if you want an increase in skill cap https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88324&find=unread
mollerz Minja Scouts 467	Posted - 2013.06.20 22:03:00 - [74] - Quote You have to realize your audience is so mixed up you are never going to get anyone to see reason. Quote: GÇ£people don't know what they want until you show it to them.GÇ¥ GÇò Steve Jobs
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 407	Posted - 2013.06.20 22:08:00 - [75] - Quote Oh while im at it. For those mid level SP players that worry about pubstomps, the fact is most don't even bother to continue to pubstomp. The only reason the vets play pubs is because playing PC for hours isnt viable and FW which should be our main stomping grounds is non-existent. So for the casual player who has no interest in PC or FW pubs won't become the noobstomp you fear it would be if there was a better FW mechanism which everyone should be pushing. But in the end there is no reason for the cap and I have yet to hear 1 good reason for it.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 334	Posted - 2013.06.20 22:38:00 - [76] - Quote Guess I'm an oddball mid-SP player then. Awesome, I love being the strange one
Wombat in combat Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 37	Posted - 2013.06.20 23:03:00 - [77] - Quote Tl;dr: Don't get entirely rid of the cap. No cap until 10M SP is ok. New booster that passively earns weekly cap. I don't know about getting rid of the SP cap. I don't really like the cap, but I don't really like the idea either that a no-lifer could catch up to my SP level in fraction of the 6 months effort I've put in. I'd however be fine with no cap up to 10M SP. I feel your suggested 20M is too much, nobody in the game even has that much yet. 10M will allow you to reach an infantry specialization to make you relevant in a FW or PC match. I think the root of this issue is the grind. Grinding SP is fun at first, but it gets very tiresome. The solution I would like to see is a new type of booster, a booster that passively earns you the weekly cap. What that means is you don't fall behind in the SP race, you don't have to grind and you only play when you feel like to.
reydient ROGUE SPADES EoN. 5	Posted - 2013.06.20 23:38:00 - [78] - Quote Yes the grind is an issue. I am a big fan of cap adjustment- anywhere for 500k to 750k, or no cap until 10 million and then have a skills cap or a combination of the two. To date, missing a skills cap feels like a punishment . PVE is one aspect that can change this, I do not run proto, but I can, I think my concern is the same. I want more players playing dust. I have alot of friends that want to play but just can tolerate it because they cap is crippling and the GAP is so wide. There is a solution but I do not not thing we will see change anytime soon. Its good to continue talking about it.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 736	Posted - 2013.06.20 23:55:00 - [79] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Again is everyone here purposely dense or fail to simply understand the basics of competitive FPS play. When i say competitive i dont mean MLG i just mean the very nature of who FPS players generally are. This isn't WoW with Guns people don't play FPS to toil around and develop and grow a character they play it to shoot people in the face and to do it at the highest levels whatever that may be in game. They generally want to do it in organized matches with their friends and they certainly don't want to be at a handicap due to a time factor. Better matchmaking only works if you have a player count to support it, notice the increase in match instability last week or two. Because there arent enough players in the pool to find nearby connections to you so you have increasing ping rates. Again you cannot max out a character and what does a max character even mean in this game, its certainly no more powerful then a character with 15M SP, its simply more versatile. Big difference. You would want to restrict new players and think oh as long as they are safe from veterans they will continue to play at a leisurely pace and not worry about the difference between them and veteran players WRONG. FPS players want to compete its the very nature of the genre to battle opponents in a game of guns and tactics. To do that they need SP if they want to fight where the vets live PC, FW and yes to a degree Pubs. People don't get lost in the notion that matchmaking solves an issue of player imbalance that is a totally different argument, this is about removing the governor off of the accelerator so people can get to the most competitive parts of the game. To deny this to players out of the ludicrous notion that it should take a long time to max a character is utter nonsense. Further more those that say that once a player reaches a max character they will no longer play, tacitly implies that the only content and reason for logging on is gaining SP to progress your character. To say that this game shouldn't be about SP and by having more metagame and end game stuff that will allow people do something post cap and not feel the 24/7 need to grind implies that there should be more to this game then leveling (i agree) but to get to those arenas players need the requisite SP to compete. This is not EVE where new players can after 2 weeks of training and skilling can get into massive fleet comps and begin to immediately wreck shop so that phiolosophy doesn't apply. /checkmate. GG You're thinking of those other shooters. Dust is an MMOFPS. Now, we don't yet have most of the MMO stuff, like PVE and the player backed economy for instance. We do have the skill tree though and the experience associated with it. Dust isn't a drop in at anytime and instantly be competitive with the long time vets kind of game. I think it's you that's confused. A matchmaker will solve the issue in the sense that new players will not be randomly pitted against vets. If you choose to play against vets, then expect to be outgunned at least until you reach the depth vs breadth point at around 10mil SP.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 407	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:10:00 - [80] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Again is everyone here purposely dense or fail to simply understand the basics of competitive FPS play. When i say competitive i dont mean MLG i just mean the very nature of who FPS players generally are. This isn't WoW with Guns people don't play FPS to toil around and develop and grow a character they play it to shoot people in the face and to do it at the highest levels whatever that may be in game. They generally want to do it in organized matches with their friends and they certainly don't want to be at a handicap due to a time factor. Better matchmaking only works if you have a player count to support it, notice the increase in match instability last week or two. Because there arent enough players in the pool to find nearby connections to you so you have increasing ping rates. Again you cannot max out a character and what does a max character even mean in this game, its certainly no more powerful then a character with 15M SP, its simply more versatile. Big difference. You would want to restrict new players and think oh as long as they are safe from veterans they will continue to play at a leisurely pace and not worry about the difference between them and veteran players WRONG. FPS players want to compete its the very nature of the genre to battle opponents in a game of guns and tactics. To do that they need SP if they want to fight where the vets live PC, FW and yes to a degree Pubs. People don't get lost in the notion that matchmaking solves an issue of player imbalance that is a totally different argument, this is about removing the governor off of the accelerator so people can get to the most competitive parts of the game. To deny this to players out of the ludicrous notion that it should take a long time to max a character is utter nonsense. Further more those that say that once a player reaches a max character they will no longer play, tacitly implies that the only content and reason for logging on is gaining SP to progress your character. To say that this game shouldn't be about SP and by having more metagame and end game stuff that will allow people do something post cap and not feel the 24/7 need to grind implies that there should be more to this game then leveling (i agree) but to get to those arenas players need the requisite SP to compete. This is not EVE where new players can after 2 weeks of training and skilling can get into massive fleet comps and begin to immediately wreck shop so that phiolosophy doesn't apply. /checkmate. GG You're thinking of those other shooters. Dust is an MMOFPS. Now, we don't yet have most of the MMO stuff, like PVE and the player backed economy for instance. We do have the skill tree though and the experience associated with it. Dust isn't a drop in at anytime and instantly be competitive with the long time vets kind of game. I think it's you that's confused. A matchmaker will solve the issue in the sense that new players will not be randomly pitted against vets. If you choose to play against vets, then expect to be outgunned at least until you reach the depth vs breadth point at around 10mil SP. Actually Im not, the game needs a base and in the end it is still viewed experienced and judged as a shooter. I know exactly what Dust is and in the end it doesnt matter what MMO you play PVP means getting to the highest levels as quickly as possible in order to compete in PVP. Dust is primarily PVP, PVE will bring in new players but they will be doing PVE stuff that will not help with the PVP stuff and in the end it is the PVP that has the influence on the New Eden Universe. So perhaps players can stop trying to make this game like EVE in an effort to save their precious SP advantage, and learn that grinding for 6 months or longer is not in the interest of any shooter game or any PVP for that matter. You may want that SP advanatage but good PVPer don't, I should know im one of them ive already crossed that proverbial finish line guess what its boring and no amount of PVE, Economy or any of the other MMO aspects will help to diminish that. This game at its core is PVP and in order to PVP you need to be able to compete. And good PVPers don't want to grind out for months just to do so nor should they be forced to simply because you want to maintain an edge over them. Let go of your crutch and get good or feel free to stop playing until PVE is introduced it sounds more like what you really would rather play.

Buster Friently Rosen Association 736	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:15:00 - [81] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Again is everyone here purposely dense or fail to simply understand the basics of competitive FPS play. When i say competitive i dont mean MLG i just mean the very nature of who FPS players generally are. This isn't WoW with Guns people don't play FPS to toil around and develop and grow a character they play it to shoot people in the face and to do it at the highest levels whatever that may be in game. They generally want to do it in organized matches with their friends and they certainly don't want to be at a handicap due to a time factor. Better matchmaking only works if you have a player count to support it, notice the increase in match instability last week or two. Because there arent enough players in the pool to find nearby connections to you so you have increasing ping rates. Again you cannot max out a character and what does a max character even mean in this game, its certainly no more powerful then a character with 15M SP, its simply more versatile. Big difference. You would want to restrict new players and think oh as long as they are safe from veterans they will continue to play at a leisurely pace and not worry about the difference between them and veteran players WRONG. FPS players want to compete its the very nature of the genre to battle opponents in a game of guns and tactics. To do that they need SP if they want to fight where the vets live PC, FW and yes to a degree Pubs. People don't get lost in the notion that matchmaking solves an issue of player imbalance that is a totally different argument, this is about removing the governor off of the accelerator so people can get to the most competitive parts of the game. To deny this to players out of the ludicrous notion that it should take a long time to max a character is utter nonsense. Further more those that say that once a player reaches a max character they will no longer play, tacitly implies that the only content and reason for logging on is gaining SP to progress your character. To say that this game shouldn't be about SP and by having more metagame and end game stuff that will allow people do something post cap and not feel the 24/7 need to grind implies that there should be more to this game then leveling (i agree) but to get to those arenas players need the requisite SP to compete. This is not EVE where new players can after 2 weeks of training and skilling can get into massive fleet comps and begin to immediately wreck shop so that phiolosophy doesn't apply. /checkmate. GG You're thinking of those other shooters. Dust is an MMOFPS. Now, we don't yet have most of the MMO stuff, like PVE and the player backed economy for instance. We do have the skill tree though and the experience associated with it. Dust isn't a drop in at anytime and instantly be competitive with the long time vets kind of game. I think it's you that's confused. A matchmaker will solve the issue in the sense that new players will not be randomly pitted against vets. If you choose to play against vets, then expect to be outgunned at least until you reach the depth vs breadth point at around 10mil SP. Actually Im not, the game needs a base and in the end it is still viewed experienced and judged as a shooter. I know exactly what Dust is and in the end it doesnt matter what MMO you play PVP means getting to the highest levels as quickly as possible in order to compete in PVP. Dust is primarily PVP, PVE will bring in new players but they will be doing PVE stuff that will not help with the PVP stuff and in the end it is the PVP that has the influence on the New Eden Universe. So perhaps players can stop trying to make this game like EVE in an effort to save their precious SP advantage, and learn that grinding for 6 months or longer is not in the interest of any shooter game or any PVP for that matter. You may want that SP advanatage but good PVPer don't, I should know im one of them ive already crossed that proverbial finish line guess what its boring and no amount of PVE, Economy or any of the other MMO aspects will help to diminish that. This game at its core is PVP and in order to PVP you need to be able to compete. And good PVPers don't want to grind out for months just to do so nor should they be forced to simply because you want to maintain an edge over them. Let go of your crutch and get good or feel free to stop playing until PVE is introduced it sounds more like what you really would rather play. Without being extra specially blunt. I disagree. It appears CCP disagrees, and Eve is an example of a product that doesn't meet your expectations but is doing fine. I think Dust will be fine. It's different. I also love how you seem to think you speak for everyone. You don't. You aren't really contributing much here but a whiny rant that you can't get SP any faster. Well, that's the way the game is buddy. So, because I disagree, I'm not a leet a pvper as you? lol. You are irrelevant. Continue to rant on the forums. See how far it gets you. I think, nay know, that CCP is far smarter than you. Humility. Learn some.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:29:00 - [82] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Without being extra specially blunt. I disagree. It appears CCP disagrees, and Eve is an example of a product that doesn't meet your expectations but is doing fine. I think Dust will be fine. It's different. How wrong you are. This is why in January they were ready to pull the trigger https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=483247#post483247 What stopped it were players like yourself thinking the world would end because of it. The reality has proven that the CAp has done more harm than a noncap ever could, the weekly cap was welcomed over a non cap because of the fear that the separation would become too great between casual and hardcore at a time when everyone on a relative even keel. We told everyone that it doesnt matter because it the character can only progress so far. Power grinders grind only as far as they need to not to go and have every last bit of their characters maxxed. Some might but in the end it doesnt make a difference. What does matter however is the new player experience and their ability to rise up the ranks to get to the best parts of the game, a very real desire of FPS players of which this game is the larger target market. CCP doesn't disagree they simply got bad feedback and succumbed to hysteria over an imagined threat to the player divide at a time when they were getting hammered for not listening to our suggestions. Your thoughts on Dust are your opinion, I would argue different, player counts continue to decline and guess what the result is even poorer matchmaking and declining server stability an issue that may be acceptable in EVE but can't be tolerated in PVP especially in shooters where aim and hit detection is critical. You can try to play the CCP disagrees with you card all you want, it's a pretty desperate move but in the end doesn't change the facts that this game has had a decline in both new and veteran player activity for quite some time. This isn't PC land where people come back over and over this is console land and like you said things are different than YOU are used to. In the end it boils down to a few points that noone in your camp can counter. 1. This game isn't supposed to be about SP but becomes so because its needed to compete at the most competitive parts of the game, the areas that the shooter community want to play in. 2. If SP isn't content and the aim then the game must be the aim so in order to play in the game you need the SP to play it. 3. If no lifeing the game results in wider gaps that players can never catch then answer me why veteran player who have reached the 10-15M SP mark simply no longer care about hitting their caps (hint: because they have gotten their character to where they want, the rest would simply go into other stuff they dont need, but wouldnt mind having)---There is no Level 99 Dust Merc. 4. If people continously no life the game for SP and the game becomes about grinding SP then are you admiting that SP is the aim of this game and there is no other point to playing it? Like i said before /checkmate GG.
Harry Hendersons Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:31:00 - [83] - Quote REMOVE THE CAP FOR THE LIFE OF THE GAME!!!!! Seriously Dust is dying.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 736	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:37:00 - [84] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Without being extra specially blunt. I disagree. It appears CCP disagrees, and Eve is an example of a product that doesn't meet your expectations but is doing fine. I think Dust will be fine. It's different. How wrong you are. This is why in January they were ready to pull the trigger https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=483247#post483247 What stopped it were players like yourself thinking the world would end because of it. The reality has proven that the CAp has done more harm than a noncap ever could, the weekly cap was welcomed over a non cap because of the fear that the separation would become too great between casual and hardcore at a time when everyone on a relative even keel. We told everyone that it doesnt matter because it the character can only progress so far. Power grinders grind only as far as they need to not to go and have every last bit of their characters maxxed. Some might but in the end it doesnt make a difference. What does matter however is the new player experience and their ability to rise up the ranks to get to the best parts of the game, a very real desire of FPS players of which this game is the larger target market. CCP doesn't disagree they simply got bad feedback and succumbed to hysteria over an imagined threat to the player divide at a time when they were getting hammered for not listening to our suggestions. Your thoughts on Dust are your opinion, I would argue different, player counts continue to decline and guess what the result is even poorer matchmaking and declining server stability an issue that may be acceptable in EVE but can't be tolerated in PVP especially in shooters where aim and hit detection is critical. You can try to play the CCP disagrees with you card all you want, it's a pretty desperate move but in the end doesn't change the facts that this game has had a decline in both new and veteran player activity for quite some time. This isn't PC land where people come back over and over this is console land and like you said things are different than YOU are used to. In the end it boils down to a few points that noone in your camp can counter. 1. This game isn't supposed to be about SP but becomes so because its needed to compete at the most competitive parts of the game, the areas that the shooter community want to play in. 2. If SP isn't content and the aim then the game must be the aim so in order to play in the game you need the SP to play it. 3. If no lifeing the game results in wider gaps that players can never catch then answer me why veteran player who have reached the 10-15M SP mark simply no longer care about hitting their caps (hint: because they have gotten their character to where they want, the rest would simply go into other stuff they dont need, but wouldnt mind having)---There is no Level 99 Dust Merc. 4. If people continously no life the game for SP and the game becomes about grinding SP then are you admiting that SP is the aim of this game and there is no other point to playing it? Like i said before /checkmate GG. The community voted. Your ideas did not carry the day. In other words, you are in the minority. Btw, your stupid gg and checkmate makes me chuckle. The thread appears to be continuing. You still appear to be in the minority. Also, SP cap or , isn't hurting player count. Player count is being hurt by bugs and boredom. Removing the SP would only make the game worse. <----my opinion. At least as valid as yours.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:38:00 - [85] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Let go of your crutch and get good or feel free to stop playing until PVE is introduced it sounds more like what you really would rather play. Without being extra specially blunt. I disagree. It appears CCP disagrees, and Eve is an example of a product that doesn't meet your expectations but is doing fine. I think Dust will be fine. It's different. I also love how you seem to think you speak for everyone. You don't. You aren't really contributing much here but a whiny rant that you can't get SP any faster. Well, that's the way the game is buddy. So, because I disagree, I'm not a leet a pvper as you? lol. You are irrelevant. Continue to rant on the forums. See how far it gets you. I think, nay know, that CCP is far smarter than you. Humility. Learn some.[/quote] So i see your aim is now to try and bait me into a flame war and derail the thread that way since you can't counter the points I make. Okay lets break this down real quick. I already have the 15M SP and have 2 Proto weapons 1 ADV weapon 1 PRO Speciality Suit 1 PRO Basic Frame PROTO: Links, Hives, Scanners, Shield Extenders, DMG Mods, Injectors, and all the core skills I need to fit it all and a Logi LAV. As far as CCP being smarter than I am, meh not really too concerned I already know my feedback was the main contributory to changes in this game already, that by the way is undisputable fact. This is a topic we see over and over again and the only people who have any objection to it are the MMO purists who want their character to "feel" special. The rest have continued this push for a long time. The vets who don't speak up dont because they really could care less they are already on the good end of the deal. The ones who do say something know it has realistically no benefit for us because as Bill Gates said Once you have enough something any more is just another bite of the same hamburger. So you can try all you like and you are welcome to your opinion but sorry to tell you in this case you are wrong and your opinion only hurts the game, there is zero benefit to the SP cap other than monetary gain. To suggest otherwise is simply misleading and wrong.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 736	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:41:00 - [86] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Let go of your crutch and get good or feel free to stop playing until PVE is introduced it sounds more like what you really would rather play. Without being extra specially blunt. I disagree. It appears CCP disagrees, and Eve is an example of a product that doesn't meet your expectations but is doing fine. I think Dust will be fine. It's different. I also love how you seem to think you speak for everyone. You don't. You aren't really contributing much here but a whiny rant that you can't get SP any faster. Well, that's the way the game is buddy. So, because I disagree, I'm not a leet a pvper as you? lol. You are irrelevant. Continue to rant on the forums. See how far it gets you. I think, nay know, that CCP is far smarter than you. Humility. Learn some. So i see your aim is now to try and bait me into a flame war and derail the thread that way since you can't counter the points I make. Okay lets break this down real quick. I already have the 15M SP and have 2 Proto weapons 1 ADV weapon 1 PRO Speciality Suit 1 PRO Basic Frame PROTO: Links, Hives, Scanners, Shield Extenders, DMG Mods, Injectors, and all the core skills I need to fit it all and a Logi LAV. As far as CCP being smarter than I am, meh not really too concerned I already know my feedback was the main contributory to changes in this game already, that by the way is undisputable fact. This is a topic we see over and over again and the only people who have any objection to it are the MMO purists who want their character to "feel" special. The rest have continued this push for a long time. The vets who don't speak up dont because they really could care less they are already on the good end of the deal. The ones who do say something know it has realistically no benefit for us because as Bill Gates said Once you have enough something any more is just another bite of the same hamburger. So you can try all you like and you are welcome to your opinion but sorry to tell you in this case you are wrong and your opinion only hurts the game, there is zero benefit to the SP cap other than monetary gain. To suggest otherwise is simply misleading and wrong. The entire point of the game from a business perspective is monetary gain. Without monetary gain, there is no game.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:41:00 - [87] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: The community voted. Your ideas did not carry the day. In other words, you are in the minority. Btw, your stupid gg and checkmate makes me chuckle. The thread appears to be continuing. You still appear to be in the minority. Also, SP cap or , isn't hurting player count. Player count is being hurt by bugs and boredom. Removing the SP would only make the game worse. <----my opinion. At least as valid as yours. Doesn't matter if I am in the minority the majority of people who are on the forums are clueless on this. Doesn't make a world of difference, also are you entirely so sure. The vote was made many months ago at a time when the player base was very close together in relative SP. Guess what we are all the vets now. Any bets on how the new players might view this, any ideas on how many veteran players would see it my way?
Buster Friently Rosen Association 736	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:45:00 - [88] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Buster Friently wrote: The community voted. Your ideas did not carry the day. In other words, you are in the minority. Btw, your stupid gg and checkmate makes me chuckle. The thread appears to be continuing. You still appear to be in the minority. Also, SP cap or , isn't hurting player count. Player count is being hurt by bugs and boredom. Removing the SP would only make the game worse. <----my opinion. At least as valid as yours. Doesn't matter if I am in the minority the majority of people who are on the forums are clueless on this. Doesn't make a world of difference, also are you entirely so sure. The vote was made many months ago at a time when the player base was very close together in relative SP. Guess what we are all the vets now. Any bets on how the new players might view this, any ideas on how many veteran players would see it my way? Based on this thread, I'm still pretty confident. Also, they tried it your way. The solution is matchmaking. Dust dovetails into Eve and this connection continues to grow. The economies must mesh. The games must mesh. Eve is an MMO (incidentally doing just fine with ONLY passive SP) thus, Dust is an MMO. Your thrashing about on the forums won't change this.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:45:00 - [89] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: The entire point of the game from a business perspective is monetary gain. Without monetary gain, there is no game. So your position is now that the reason we should keep the SP cap is so CCP can make money by charging for boosters. Am I interpreting this correctly? You think we should keep the status quo so CCP can charge players who want to play this game and play it at the highest level should have to pay and even then still have to wait because they are capped, all they are getting is more bonus SP? Your point is too vague so i'll let you slide and assume you mean that CCP needs to make money, well surely there are other ways to do it without taxing the one thing they need to keep player retention right?
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:48:00 - [90] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Buster Friently wrote: The community voted. Your ideas did not carry the day. In other words, you are in the minority. Btw, your stupid gg and checkmate makes me chuckle. The thread appears to be continuing. You still appear to be in the minority. Also, SP cap or , isn't hurting player count. Player count is being hurt by bugs and boredom. Removing the SP would only make the game worse. <----my opinion. At least as valid as yours. Doesn't matter if I am in the minority the majority of people who are on the forums are clueless on this. Doesn't make a world of difference, also are you entirely so sure. The vote was made many months ago at a time when the player base was very close together in relative SP. Guess what we are all the vets now. Any bets on how the new players might view this, any ideas on how many veteran players would see it my way? Based on this thread, I'm still pretty confident. Also, they tried it your way. The solution is matchmaking. Dust dovetails into Eve and this connection continues to grow. The economies must mesh. The games must mesh. Eve is an MMO (incidentally doing just fine with ONLY passive SP) thus, Dust is an MMO. Your thrashing about on the forums won't change this. What in the world are you going on about? Haha. Dust is now an MMO, thought it was an MMOFPS? You seem confused. There is no doctrine that states that the gameplay of EVE must be the gameplay of Dust. if thats the case lets turn it around and incorporate feature from dust. There will no longer be auto aim, and computer assisted flight all aiming and tracking movements must be done manually.

Buster Friently Rosen Association 736	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:50:00 - [91] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Buster Friently wrote: The entire point of the game from a business perspective is monetary gain. Without monetary gain, there is no game. So your position is now that the reason we should keep the SP cap is so CCP can make money by charging for boosters. Am I interpreting this correctly? You think we should keep the status quo so CCP can charge players who want to play this game and play it at the highest level should have to pay and even then still have to wait because they are capped, all they are getting is more bonus SP? Your point is too vague so i'll let you slide and assume you mean that CCP needs to make money, well surely there are other ways to do it without taxing the one thing they need to keep player retention right? I'm going to have to ask now, if you ate a bowl of stupid for breakfast today? I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you did, because there could be no other explanation for the fact that you just claimed that removal of SP is the one thing that will keep player retention. Removal of SP caps will do nothing to retain players, except perhaps, to cause some to become bored and leave sooner. A decent matchmaker, which thankfully CCP is working on, will do wonders for player retention , as will PVE, crafting, a better economy, and in general, more things to do.
PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 152	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:54:00 - [92] - Quote OK here it is i don't really care if any finds this easy to read or not im just gonna say it how i see it When this game got realsed the beta testers shat all over the new comers and probably thought it was funny as hell, now new comers either leave because they are tired of getting stomped or they join a big corporation and go stomping other new players. The only real way to fix this for the greater good is to give x5 sp gain to 500k - 2mill SP players give x4 sp gain to 2mil - 4mill players give x3 sp gain to 4mill - 6mill players give x2 sp gain to 6mill - 8 mill players give x1 sp gain to 8mill sp players and beyond This will create an equilibrium of 2 - 6mill players with the majority of the player base sat here But this will never happen because no one gives a ** about new players and them sticking around thats my first real rant, and probly a sign to just give up on this game ** it i will put it in its own thread.....
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:02:00 - [93] - Quote duplicate.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:14:00 - [94] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Buster Friently wrote: The entire point of the game from a business perspective is monetary gain. Without monetary gain, there is no game. So your position is now that the reason we should keep the SP cap is so CCP can make money by charging for boosters. Am I interpreting this correctly? You think we should keep the status quo so CCP can charge players who want to play this game and play it at the highest level should have to pay and even then still have to wait because they are capped, all they are getting is more bonus SP? Your point is too vague so i'll let you slide and assume you mean that CCP needs to make money, well surely there are other ways to do it without taxing the one thing they need to keep player retention right? I'm going to have to ask now, if you ate a bowl of stupid for breakfast today? I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you did, because there could be no other explanation for the fact that you just claimed that removal of SP is the one thing that will keep player retention. Removal of SP caps will do nothing to retain players, except perhaps, to cause some to become bored and leave sooner. A decent matchmaker, which thankfully CCP is working on, will do wonders for player retention , as will PVE, crafting, a better economy, and in general, more things to do. Really its the one thing that will fix player retention? Gee i could have swore ive authored numerous topics on the state of this game and areas needed for improvement. Perhaps you should have read my storefronts discussion and the need for ITEM transfer to make that happen Here feel free to read it https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=962114#post962114 Addtionally ive talked about the core FPS mechanics, the changes needed to PC and FW as well. See there are multiple things needed for this game but different dev teams handle different things. Ultimately ive said there are multiple things that need addressing but it begins with core gameplay and the ability to compete as this will create the population, at the same time there needs to be a push for PC and more importantly FW this will create a playground for vets. In doing so that is your foundation and the structural beams. Next comes the MMO, the Dust-EVE link, the market, the economy. Pieces of it are already on their way because the team that handles that is also working on PC/FW and the Dust-EVE link so they tend to be efficient in working those areas out. But in the end it wont matter having these things if the core gameplay isnt there to bring players in and keep them. 2 Things fall into this. Character progression and FPS mechanics(aiming, movement, hit detection), a subset of mechanics would also be server stability and reliability again we can umbrella all this under Core Gameplay. So yea this is just one piece of the puzzle. Ive already made my advisements in the other areas and there are others far more equipped to discuss those topics who have done so.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 736	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:16:00 - [95] - Quote Here's the lowdown, all summarized nicely in one post. SP cap removal will not improve player retention. A better matchmaker, like the newly implemented Academy will help. This is because it will help new players to HAVE FUN. Removal of SP cap will not help new players have fun, it will only allow veterans to gain SP even faster vs new players (who don't yet know the ropes). Also, new game modes, PVE, crafting, a robust economy will help retain new players because it will give players more things to do. More things to do = MORE FUN. In short, more content = more players because individuals like different things. The more different things you have in a game, the more people will find the game fun. Table for the reading impaired: To improve player retention we need: Noob friendly matches - i.e a decent matchmaker. More things to do - i.e more game modes like PVE, etc. More stuff to play with - like new gear, new mechanics, new maps, etc. Removing the SP cap will in now way, add more fun. We already have dbags afking in matches because they believe they must grind out the nec. SP. Removing the SP cap will make this worse. Frankly, regarding SP as it relates to fun, only the removal of all active SP in favor of an all passive solution would be of any benefit.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:25:00 - [96] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Here's the lowdown, all summarized nicely in one post. SP cap removal will not improve player retention. A better matchmaker, like the newly implemented Academy will help. This is because it will help new players to HAVE FUN. Removal of SP cap will not help new players have fun, it will only allow veterans to gain SP even faster vs new players (who don't yet know the ropes). Also, new game modes, PVE, crafting, a robust economy will help retain new players because it will give players more things to do. More things to do = MORE FUN. In short, more content = more players because individuals like different things. The more different things you have in a game, the more people will find the game fun. Table for the reading impaired: To improve player retention we need: Noob friendly matches - i.e a decent matchmaker. More things to do - i.e more game modes like PVE, etc. More stuff to play with - like new gear, new mechanics, new maps, etc. Removing the SP cap will in now way, add more fun. We already have dbags afking in matches because they believe they must grind out the nec. SP. Removing the SP cap will make this worse. Frankly, regarding SP as it relates to fun, only the removal of all active SP in favor of an all passive solution would be of any benefit. There is no disagrement on the other stuff. That doesn't change the fact that there are enough new players who come to this game who do want to play this in a competitive manner or at the least be able to stand up to vets and cannot do so because of a weekly cap. We see it every new build whenever new players come in, like clockwork there is a thread that pops up inquiring about why all of sudden they aren't getting SP like they were the first few days and they are smacked with the reality of an SP cap. You still have yet to provide a valid argument to why Veteran SP players would continue to grind past a set point and how it makes any difference if they already have proto gear in one specialty? Does having 2 sets of proto gears make me 2x stronger than the person who has 1? People AFK in matches for entirely different reasons, mainly because they don't want to play this game but want the SP and it has everything to do with the way SP is earned in matches. Those same people are more likely to play if the rewards for active play outpaced passive in game gain. Also veteran gaining SP faster then new players is irrelevant, why do you continue to ignore the Wider not Taller point?
KA24DERT Not Guilty EoN. 61	Posted - 2013.06.21 03:21:00 - [97] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: KA24DERT wrote: The solution to new players getting stomped in pubs is proper matchmaking. The solution to giving rewards to the players that work for them, is to give rewards to players that work for them. Fix Matchmaking. Remove the cap. You silly people are making this simple problem into a hard one. What about FW or PC, or pub matches with a squad? What about them?
Wombat in combat Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 37	Posted - 2013.06.21 06:41:00 - [98] - Quote Keyser Soze: Is this one of your threads where you talk to yourself via alts?
Yani Sing Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:00:00 - [99] - Quote Done with sp cap. Erase it
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 96	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:49:00 - [100] - Quote I Really Don't Give two Kittens about this. I Never Cap. EVER. And you Know what? I Bet Most New Players don't either. So The Ideology behind if you remove the Cap, you Make Newberries able to get to into Decent Gear Faster, is Likely False. When you Play Next, go onto Local and ask the People who's New. And then ask them if they've ever hit their SP cap. I Bet you 9/10 will say they Never Hit the Cap 2/3 Will probably not Know there even was a Cap On SP gain. So if it Doesn't help newberries get into gear Faster, what does it do? It Lets Proto grizzlies spec into More and More roles, as they STILL Crush New Players because their is no chance a New guy will Survive a Fully Specc'd Proto Duovalle AR in a Sentinel. None. So Let us say, we Remove the Skill cap. As the Grizzlies Spec into Tanks, and HMGs, and all of the New Racial Frames and Racial Rifles, the New Guys are Still going to quit as the Older players Munch them with EVERY weapon in the Game, as they only have Kitteny little STD gear in a Feeble attempt to hurt them. I Wouldn't Mind No cap, as so long their is a Wall between Militia Players and Proto Death Machines. When I say wall, I don't mean Segregate them, More like Segregate their Gear usage, as that is Main Defining Factor when it comes to Newberries and Older Players. And we ALL know it. If you Pit a Single Proto Player with Full Complex Shield Extenders, Full Armor Plates in the Low Power Slots and a Duovalle Versus 2 Standard Players with the Same Setup in Standard Gear, the Standards don't have a Hope in Hell of Winning. I will Agree with this Statement on one Condition. There are Tiered Matches for the types of Gear. This Way a Full Proto Specc'd Player CAN play with New Players, and have a Slight Edge, but the new Guys have a Hope of Surviving in the wave of Highly Specc'd Players. Me-Co Out

Sigbjorn Foerik Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:51:00 - [101] - Quote +1 100th post!!!
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 96	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:06:00 - [102] - Quote Sigbjorn Foerik wrote: +1 100th post!!! W00T! That Makes Me the 101st Merc to Post on this thread!


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