DUST Search - [CCP] it's time. CUT the Gordian Knot

Buster Friently wrote:

Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

The entire point of the game from a business perspective is monetary gain. Without monetary gain, there is no game.

So your position is now that the reason we should keep the SP cap is so CCP can make money by charging for boosters. Am I interpreting this correctly? You think we should keep the status quo so CCP can charge players who want to play this game and play it at the highest level should have to pay and even then still have to wait because they are capped, all they are getting is more bonus SP?

Your point is too vague so i'll let you slide and assume you mean that CCP needs to make money, well surely there are other ways to do it without taxing the one thing they need to keep player retention right?

I'm going to have to ask now, if you ate a bowl of stupid for breakfast today? I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you did, because there could be no other explanation for the fact that you just claimed that removal of SP is the one thing that will keep player retention.

Removal of SP caps will do nothing to retain players, except perhaps, to cause some to become bored and leave sooner.

A decent matchmaker, which thankfully CCP is working on, will do wonders for player retention , as will PVE, crafting, a better economy, and in general, more things to do.

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Buster Friently Rosen Association 736	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:50:00 - [91] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Buster Friently wrote: The entire point of the game from a business perspective is monetary gain. Without monetary gain, there is no game. So your position is now that the reason we should keep the SP cap is so CCP can make money by charging for boosters. Am I interpreting this correctly? You think we should keep the status quo so CCP can charge players who want to play this game and play it at the highest level should have to pay and even then still have to wait because they are capped, all they are getting is more bonus SP? Your point is too vague so i'll let you slide and assume you mean that CCP needs to make money, well surely there are other ways to do it without taxing the one thing they need to keep player retention right? I'm going to have to ask now, if you ate a bowl of stupid for breakfast today? I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you did, because there could be no other explanation for the fact that you just claimed that removal of SP is the one thing that will keep player retention. Removal of SP caps will do nothing to retain players, except perhaps, to cause some to become bored and leave sooner. A decent matchmaker, which thankfully CCP is working on, will do wonders for player retention , as will PVE, crafting, a better economy, and in general, more things to do.
PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 152	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:54:00 - [92] - Quote OK here it is i don't really care if any finds this easy to read or not im just gonna say it how i see it When this game got realsed the beta testers shat all over the new comers and probably thought it was funny as hell, now new comers either leave because they are tired of getting stomped or they join a big corporation and go stomping other new players. The only real way to fix this for the greater good is to give x5 sp gain to 500k - 2mill SP players give x4 sp gain to 2mil - 4mill players give x3 sp gain to 4mill - 6mill players give x2 sp gain to 6mill - 8 mill players give x1 sp gain to 8mill sp players and beyond This will create an equilibrium of 2 - 6mill players with the majority of the player base sat here But this will never happen because no one gives a ** about new players and them sticking around thats my first real rant, and probly a sign to just give up on this game ** it i will put it in its own thread.....
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:02:00 - [93] - Quote duplicate.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:14:00 - [94] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Buster Friently wrote: The entire point of the game from a business perspective is monetary gain. Without monetary gain, there is no game. So your position is now that the reason we should keep the SP cap is so CCP can make money by charging for boosters. Am I interpreting this correctly? You think we should keep the status quo so CCP can charge players who want to play this game and play it at the highest level should have to pay and even then still have to wait because they are capped, all they are getting is more bonus SP? Your point is too vague so i'll let you slide and assume you mean that CCP needs to make money, well surely there are other ways to do it without taxing the one thing they need to keep player retention right? I'm going to have to ask now, if you ate a bowl of stupid for breakfast today? I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you did, because there could be no other explanation for the fact that you just claimed that removal of SP is the one thing that will keep player retention. Removal of SP caps will do nothing to retain players, except perhaps, to cause some to become bored and leave sooner. A decent matchmaker, which thankfully CCP is working on, will do wonders for player retention , as will PVE, crafting, a better economy, and in general, more things to do. Really its the one thing that will fix player retention? Gee i could have swore ive authored numerous topics on the state of this game and areas needed for improvement. Perhaps you should have read my storefronts discussion and the need for ITEM transfer to make that happen Here feel free to read it https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=962114#post962114 Addtionally ive talked about the core FPS mechanics, the changes needed to PC and FW as well. See there are multiple things needed for this game but different dev teams handle different things. Ultimately ive said there are multiple things that need addressing but it begins with core gameplay and the ability to compete as this will create the population, at the same time there needs to be a push for PC and more importantly FW this will create a playground for vets. In doing so that is your foundation and the structural beams. Next comes the MMO, the Dust-EVE link, the market, the economy. Pieces of it are already on their way because the team that handles that is also working on PC/FW and the Dust-EVE link so they tend to be efficient in working those areas out. But in the end it wont matter having these things if the core gameplay isnt there to bring players in and keep them. 2 Things fall into this. Character progression and FPS mechanics(aiming, movement, hit detection), a subset of mechanics would also be server stability and reliability again we can umbrella all this under Core Gameplay. So yea this is just one piece of the puzzle. Ive already made my advisements in the other areas and there are others far more equipped to discuss those topics who have done so.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 736	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:16:00 - [95] - Quote Here's the lowdown, all summarized nicely in one post. SP cap removal will not improve player retention. A better matchmaker, like the newly implemented Academy will help. This is because it will help new players to HAVE FUN. Removal of SP cap will not help new players have fun, it will only allow veterans to gain SP even faster vs new players (who don't yet know the ropes). Also, new game modes, PVE, crafting, a robust economy will help retain new players because it will give players more things to do. More things to do = MORE FUN. In short, more content = more players because individuals like different things. The more different things you have in a game, the more people will find the game fun. Table for the reading impaired: To improve player retention we need: Noob friendly matches - i.e a decent matchmaker. More things to do - i.e more game modes like PVE, etc. More stuff to play with - like new gear, new mechanics, new maps, etc. Removing the SP cap will in now way, add more fun. We already have dbags afking in matches because they believe they must grind out the nec. SP. Removing the SP cap will make this worse. Frankly, regarding SP as it relates to fun, only the removal of all active SP in favor of an all passive solution would be of any benefit.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 408	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:25:00 - [96] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Here's the lowdown, all summarized nicely in one post. SP cap removal will not improve player retention. A better matchmaker, like the newly implemented Academy will help. This is because it will help new players to HAVE FUN. Removal of SP cap will not help new players have fun, it will only allow veterans to gain SP even faster vs new players (who don't yet know the ropes). Also, new game modes, PVE, crafting, a robust economy will help retain new players because it will give players more things to do. More things to do = MORE FUN. In short, more content = more players because individuals like different things. The more different things you have in a game, the more people will find the game fun. Table for the reading impaired: To improve player retention we need: Noob friendly matches - i.e a decent matchmaker. More things to do - i.e more game modes like PVE, etc. More stuff to play with - like new gear, new mechanics, new maps, etc. Removing the SP cap will in now way, add more fun. We already have dbags afking in matches because they believe they must grind out the nec. SP. Removing the SP cap will make this worse. Frankly, regarding SP as it relates to fun, only the removal of all active SP in favor of an all passive solution would be of any benefit. There is no disagrement on the other stuff. That doesn't change the fact that there are enough new players who come to this game who do want to play this in a competitive manner or at the least be able to stand up to vets and cannot do so because of a weekly cap. We see it every new build whenever new players come in, like clockwork there is a thread that pops up inquiring about why all of sudden they aren't getting SP like they were the first few days and they are smacked with the reality of an SP cap. You still have yet to provide a valid argument to why Veteran SP players would continue to grind past a set point and how it makes any difference if they already have proto gear in one specialty? Does having 2 sets of proto gears make me 2x stronger than the person who has 1? People AFK in matches for entirely different reasons, mainly because they don't want to play this game but want the SP and it has everything to do with the way SP is earned in matches. Those same people are more likely to play if the rewards for active play outpaced passive in game gain. Also veteran gaining SP faster then new players is irrelevant, why do you continue to ignore the Wider not Taller point?
KA24DERT Not Guilty EoN. 61	Posted - 2013.06.21 03:21:00 - [97] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: KA24DERT wrote: The solution to new players getting stomped in pubs is proper matchmaking. The solution to giving rewards to the players that work for them, is to give rewards to players that work for them. Fix Matchmaking. Remove the cap. You silly people are making this simple problem into a hard one. What about FW or PC, or pub matches with a squad? What about them?
Wombat in combat Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 37	Posted - 2013.06.21 06:41:00 - [98] - Quote Keyser Soze: Is this one of your threads where you talk to yourself via alts?
Yani Sing Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:00:00 - [99] - Quote Done with sp cap. Erase it
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 96	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:49:00 - [100] - Quote I Really Don't Give two Kittens about this. I Never Cap. EVER. And you Know what? I Bet Most New Players don't either. So The Ideology behind if you remove the Cap, you Make Newberries able to get to into Decent Gear Faster, is Likely False. When you Play Next, go onto Local and ask the People who's New. And then ask them if they've ever hit their SP cap. I Bet you 9/10 will say they Never Hit the Cap 2/3 Will probably not Know there even was a Cap On SP gain. So if it Doesn't help newberries get into gear Faster, what does it do? It Lets Proto grizzlies spec into More and More roles, as they STILL Crush New Players because their is no chance a New guy will Survive a Fully Specc'd Proto Duovalle AR in a Sentinel. None. So Let us say, we Remove the Skill cap. As the Grizzlies Spec into Tanks, and HMGs, and all of the New Racial Frames and Racial Rifles, the New Guys are Still going to quit as the Older players Munch them with EVERY weapon in the Game, as they only have Kitteny little STD gear in a Feeble attempt to hurt them. I Wouldn't Mind No cap, as so long their is a Wall between Militia Players and Proto Death Machines. When I say wall, I don't mean Segregate them, More like Segregate their Gear usage, as that is Main Defining Factor when it comes to Newberries and Older Players. And we ALL know it. If you Pit a Single Proto Player with Full Complex Shield Extenders, Full Armor Plates in the Low Power Slots and a Duovalle Versus 2 Standard Players with the Same Setup in Standard Gear, the Standards don't have a Hope in Hell of Winning. I will Agree with this Statement on one Condition. There are Tiered Matches for the types of Gear. This Way a Full Proto Specc'd Player CAN play with New Players, and have a Slight Edge, but the new Guys have a Hope of Surviving in the wave of Highly Specc'd Players. Me-Co Out

Sigbjorn Foerik Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:51:00 - [101] - Quote +1 100th post!!!
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 96	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:06:00 - [102] - Quote Sigbjorn Foerik wrote: +1 100th post!!! W00T! That Makes Me the 101st Merc to Post on this thread!


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