DUST Search - Sorry, but DUST missed the mark...

Tarmageddon XIII wrote:

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

With regard to this thread being in the wrong section, I saw that one of the rules in the Feedback section was not to make a list of items for feedback, I felt that my thread constituted a list as opposed to a single item for feedback, and that is why it went here. Apologies to the mods if I got it wrong.

With regards to CoD I know it has a lot of followers and a lot of haters. From my point of view it fills a slot in the FPS market, and that is rapid, arcade-style gameplay with focus on speed and adrenaline rather than realism. Some people hate that, some people thrive on it. I see it as part of my expansive gaming menu. If I want a more battle-simulator type of FPS I will play BF3 or Arma, but if I am in the need of a "quick fix" rather than the focus of a proper battle I'll pick up CoD.

I also appreciate that my comment about them setting the bar will go against the grain for a lot of people, but you only have to look at the sales success of both games to see that even if it's not your own PERSONAL cup of tea, they must be doing something right or no-one would buy it. I wasn't trying to pass off CoD as the last word in combat simulation, and I apologise for the mis-understanding if that's what you thought.

Finally, to the person who said they hope I carry on playing and see how it ends up, I fully intend to. I can't play tomorrow when the patch comes out on account of being stuck on a ship working in the South China Sea at the moment, but it is definitely on the list to catch up with when I'm home.

Thanks again for the replies, critiscisms and support.

Gòª

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Tarmageddon XIII Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix 0	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:16:00 - [1] - Quote Hi there, Look, I know I'll get a lot of flak for this, but I did read the forum rules carefully before posting and see that constructive critiscism is encouraged, but flaming and trolling is not, so please think about that before you reply. This is purely intended to be constructive. I WANT DUST as much as anyone else, but that doesn't mean I will pretend that everything is perfect just because I want it to be. Ok, so here goes. I am something of a veteran FPS player on PS, X-Box and PC. I am also an EvE player, so naturally when I heard about DUST coming out I was excited. A mixture of my two favourite genres, what could be better? Whilst I don't like comparing computer games to each other, sometimes it's necessary when they share certain elements or themes. For this reason if I make any comparisons to CoD or Battlefield it is because they are currently at the top of the console-gaming market, they set the bar. I'll start with what I love about DUST so you can see I am a gamer not a hater. First the whole idea is awesome, not only do you get to play an FPS based on a futuristic universe, but id you find yourself wondering "I wonder what the rest of the universe is like in this futuristic game" you need not wonder, since the universe is beautifully laid out for you with EvE Online. I am also really impressed with the way CCP intergrated the EvE-style skills system with DUST, and managed to make it work. With CoD and BF3 I get almost as much enjoyment out of messing about with my character in between matches as I do from playing the fps itself, and DUST is no disappointment in that respect. Theory-craft is FUN, and being an EvE player I feel like I am already "in the know" as to how the game works. Unfortunately, the let-down for me comes when I actually play the battles, and considering that is the core of the game, it was a really big let-down for me. The first thing which is immediately noticable is the quality of the graphics. I know graphics aren't everything, I still love playing games from the beginnings of my gaming hobby such as F29 Retaliator or Wolf 3D. Game-play is first and foremost, but graphics ARE important when you release a brand-new FPS. FPS games are (the clue is in the name) FIRST PERSON Shooters, which means when you view the world around you you're supposed to be "seeing" it from the eyes of your avatar. The more realistic the graphics are, the more you believe in your character and the more immersing the game is. When FarCry 2 came out you could practically taste the seat-fabric in the Land-Rover in the opening scene (I don't lick car seats by the way) and that is the level graphics are expected to be at nowadays. Again, sorry for comparing, but BF3 pulled it off, the later CoD games pulled it off, so as a veteran of these games I felt like I was going back in time. The next hitch was the controls. As in, what button does what. FPS games from all different developers have, over the years, come to almost a "standard" set of controls for FPS. CCP changed it. Why? Of course, it is their perogative, it's THEIR game so of course they can use whatever controls they like. Also, a good chunk of DUST players may well come straight from EvE and never have played a FPS, or at least not seriously before, so they wouldn't have any expectations - but for those players who DO come from other FPS and want DUST to take over as THE FPS to play, it's just confusing. Yeah, sure, I can get used to it, but surely it would have drawn people in quicker if they could jump straight in with the controls they are used to. To put it another way, if a car manufacturer brought out a new car with the accelerator on the left, the brake on the right and the clutch in the middle, people wouldn't buy it because the test-drive would suck. Yes, they could get used to it, but the clunky test-drive would be enough to put most of them off for good. Then I tried driving a jeep. Although I know this ISN'T Battlefield, I still think it's important when developing anything, to see how others have done something and use some of their ideas and experience when they have done something right. If the CCP devs spent some time playing BF3 just to see how the opposition was looking, they would have found that BF3 vehicles are a real joy to drive. They have realistic controls to make you feel involved, just hard enough to drive well to keep you interested, yet easy enough that it isn't frustrating. You can jump into a BF3 jeep and get it from A to B in no-time. With practice you can be Jack Brabbham. Driving the DUST jeeps just feels like a chore, swerving wildly to and fro bumping into things and ultimately getting shot. Again, I am sure with a lot of practice you can master them, but why make them so user-unfriendly? Continued.....
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 151	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:18:00 - [2] - Quote You'll be happy to know that all the things you talked about in the second half asda will be fixed come the 6th
Tarmageddon XIII Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix 0	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:21:00 - [3] - Quote There are a number of other quibbles and gripes, but I will leave them alone because they are just that, quibbles and gripes not make-or-break failures, but here is the fundimental thing which makes me feel that DUST 514 has missed the mark as a modern FPS: With CoD and BF3 I have lost countless days to them, the reason being that they are massively addictive. You play a level and you finish up wanting more, whether it be that you are THAT close to unlocking the next weapon or upgrade, or whether it is because you have been sparring against someone in your lobby (which doesn't seem to exist at the moment on DUST) all morning and JUST want to get him one more time, or whether you think "I'll just play until I level up once more" or you are headed for that last prestige, SOMETHING always keeps you interested. This applies especially to Battlefield 3 as it is a far superior game to CoD, and also with the vehicles, aircraft and large maps a lot closer to DUST. I relish the playing the next round of BF3, I wait for that count-down to run out so I can waste another 10-30 minutes on playing it. With DUST it just feels like a chore, two or three rounds is all it takes for me to have had enough, and what makes or breaks an FPS is that with a really REALLY good one, you can never get enough. So again, I am really sorry to CCP for feeling this way, and maybe I have been over-critical, to be fair DUST is pretty good, but we are talking about CCP here, they developed EvE which is SO far ahead of any other MMORPG out there that it might as well be on another planet (no pun intended) so I wasn't expecting an OK FPS or even a GOOD FPS, I was expecting something so mind-blowingly awesome that everything else paled into comparison, and with so few tweaks and lessons taken from other leading FPS games they could have achieved it, but unfortunately, sorry to say this, DUST 514 missed.... Lastly I am sure some of you will say, hey, if you don't like it, don't play, no need to write an essay about it, and with any other game from any other developer I would have done just that, but I WANT DUST to succeed, and I know that when it is released to hundreds of thousands of other ex-fps players a good number of them will be thinking exactly the same as me, so I figured I HAD to say something or I would feel that I had done nothing. Hope this explains it. Gòª
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 458	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:25:00 - [4] - Quote CCP, this guy represents your playerbase or would be playerbase. For every one person brave enough to voice their opinion on here there's probably ~50 who don't. Instead of listening to people QQing for nerfs, do something to keep new players wanting to play.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3689	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:31:00 - [5] - Quote Wait until May 6th, as many of your feedback may have already been addressed in the new build. This is what Dust will look like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J7JJ-QWSx8 & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjMwiqmBs1o Here is some patch notes: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=71944&find=unread Dust 514 keynote at EVE Fanfest 2013 talks about the improvements and additions to Dust coming: http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/c/2204060 Also feedback belongs in the feedback/request section.
Smooth Head Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2013.05.05 08:01:00 - [6] - Quote The game is very sub-par. It may improve a bit on the 6th, but CCP have a record of breaking as much as they fix. And on a variety of issues CCP have acted like deceptive prats while trying to flog off a game on an end of life platform. I wouldn't call this a brilliant state of affairs.
MarakPS3 Daga Bojo's School of the Trades 34	Posted - 2013.05.05 08:19:00 - [7] - Quote i agree with your sentiments, and am looking forward to the next few days. i hope they are as good as they seem.
Harkon Vysarii Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 203	Posted - 2013.05.05 08:21:00 - [8] - Quote Im so glad you went about this positively. Personally I have no gripes not with all the graphics fixes we have been promised, some new content, not to mention Ive played games that have trolled me a whole lot more than DUST ever could. Im not really a CCP fanboy and this is the first real beta test Ive been a part of and its kind of cool and new for me. I hold out for the possibility DUST will become something more than the average crappy FPS.
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 120	Posted - 2013.05.05 08:30:00 - [9] - Quote To make a constructive criticism on your Thread Termageddon XIII, You posted this thread in the wrong subforum. You are giving Feedback, which is supposed to be posted in the Feedback/Requests Subforum.
Son Down SamsClub 8	Posted - 2013.05.05 08:37:00 - [10] - Quote Awwww, CCP didn't cater to your inabilty to compete in a console shooter Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! next up

Smooth Head Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2013.05.05 08:41:00 - [11] - Quote Son Down wrote: Awwww, CCP didn't cater to your inabilty to compete in a console shooter Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! next up "Why are we all playing here alone?"
La Fortune Terranauts 91	Posted - 2013.05.05 08:49:00 - [12] - Quote A well written post Tarmageddon XIII, you've highlighted a lot of concerns people have had over DUST. Fortunately with the Uprising build tomorrow, a lot of these issues will hopefully be fixed or at least reduced. I've been in the beta now for almost a year and trust me when I say that DUST has evolved leaps and bounds over what we were initially given after fanfest, it was truly dreadful (though fun in a frustrating way) and reminded me a lot of Battlefield 1942 in gameplay. But the graphics were sparse, everything was desert with one texture, the frame rate was unbearable (Chromosome is very smooth in comparison, though Uprising will be much better) and everything was just so flaky. Given time CCP can deliver, they're just a company that requires patience, which if you're playing EVE online you tend to have, but DUST is a very different audience in a lot of cases. Anyway, stick around for the update tomorrow and you may be pleasantly surprised.
Harkon Vysarii Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 204	Posted - 2013.05.05 08:50:00 - [13] - Quote Son Down wrote: Awwww, CCP didn't cater to your inabilty to compete in a console shooter Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! next up Never heard of you or your corp troll completely ignored. We have bigger and better trolls that you any how
Llan Heindell One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 41	Posted - 2013.05.05 09:29:00 - [14] - Quote I admire the OP, I really do. But posting this one day before the Uprising is like complaining about no presents one day before Christmas. I hope the OP sticks around. So Dust 514 playerbase would be +1 good person. With the slight defect of finding CoD playable. xD~ (But that's a matter of opinion... :\| ) Llan Heindell.
La Fortune Terranauts 91	Posted - 2013.05.05 09:46:00 - [15] - Quote Llan Heindell wrote: I admire the OP, I really do. But posting this one day before the Uprising is like complaining about no presents one day before Christmas. I hope the OP sticks around. So Dust 514 playerbase would be +1 good person. With the slight defect of finding CoD playable. xD~ (But that's a matter of opinion... :\| ) Llan Heindell. I used to be a COD player... And by that I mean Call of Duty, you know, from 2003. It was a cool game back then
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 437	Posted - 2013.05.05 10:41:00 - [16] - Quote Quote: For this reason if I make any comparisons to CoD or Battlefield it is because they are currently at the top of the console-gaming market, they set the bar. I stopped reading there
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 158	Posted - 2013.05.05 10:46:00 - [17] - Quote Hey, nice to see a reasoned presentation of issue for consideration. Not sure how the thread will evolve but it was a good start...
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 266	Posted - 2013.05.05 10:49:00 - [18] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Quote: For this reason if I make any comparisons to CoD or Battlefield it is because they are currently at the top of the console-gaming market, they set the bar. I stopped reading there CoD is a good game, or to be more accurate, it's a good example of one type of game - a simple fast paced twitch shooter. And while Dust is a different beast, there is some overlap between the two courtesy of both being an FPS. EDIT: @OP, as others have said, Uprising should be what Dust and CCP is judged by, not Chromosome - CCP really can completely change a game with just one expansion.
steadyhand amarr The Red Apple 459	Posted - 2013.05.05 10:53:00 - [19] - Quote play the game tomorrow i think you will find a few of your issues are taken care of :P
Tarmageddon XIII Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix 7	Posted - 2013.05.05 12:35:00 - [20] - Quote Hi guys, thanks for the replies. With regard to this thread being in the wrong section, I saw that one of the rules in the Feedback section was not to make a list of items for feedback, I felt that my thread constituted a list as opposed to a single item for feedback, and that is why it went here. Apologies to the mods if I got it wrong. With regards to CoD I know it has a lot of followers and a lot of haters. From my point of view it fills a slot in the FPS market, and that is rapid, arcade-style gameplay with focus on speed and adrenaline rather than realism. Some people hate that, some people thrive on it. I see it as part of my expansive gaming menu. If I want a more battle-simulator type of FPS I will play BF3 or Arma, but if I am in the need of a "quick fix" rather than the focus of a proper battle I'll pick up CoD. I also appreciate that my comment about them setting the bar will go against the grain for a lot of people, but you only have to look at the sales success of both games to see that even if it's not your own PERSONAL cup of tea, they must be doing something right or no-one would buy it. I wasn't trying to pass off CoD as the last word in combat simulation, and I apologise for the mis-understanding if that's what you thought. Finally, to the person who said they hope I carry on playing and see how it ends up, I fully intend to. I can't play tomorrow when the patch comes out on account of being stuck on a ship working in the South China Sea at the moment, but it is definitely on the list to catch up with when I'm home. Thanks again for the replies, critiscisms and support. Gòª

Aisha Ctarl The Vanguardians Orion Empire 13	Posted - 2013.05.05 12:42:00 - [21] - Quote I agree. I was stymied when R3 wasn't crouch and when triangle wasn't switch weapon. Also as you said, the jeeps are near impossible to drive in DUST. I love vehicles in BF3, but in DUST I'm already like "forget that, I'll just be an infantryman."
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 65	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:11:00 - [22] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: You'll be happy to know that all the things you talked about in the second half will be fixed come the 6th you read all that? i didn't get through the first sentence.
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 451	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:14:00 - [23] - Quote I face palmed at BF3 and CoD "setting the bar." Those games are examples of failure and what not to do. I would say you need to play more before you will understand how wrong you are here. Not to mention the update will deal with most of this.
Dr Bones McCoy Contract Hunters 4	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:22:00 - [24] - Quote #1. The game is in beta. #2. The game is free. #3. Most importantly, the game is working out the kinks on a revolutionary new idea that will make a large impact in the gaming world. I respect the thoughts, really, but before judging too hard, you should wait until the official release.
tribal wyvern ZionTCD Unclaimed. 852	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:01:00 - [25] - Quote Smooth Head wrote: The game is very sub-par. It may improve a bit on the 6th, but CCP have a record of breaking as much as they fix. And on a variety of issues CCP have acted like deceptive prats while trying to flog off a game on an end of life platform. I wouldn't call this a brilliant state of affairs. 'End of life platform'? Boy what planet are you on? Ps3 has at leaste another 2-3 years life left. Not everyone will buy a ps4 on release. People will still be playing ps3 long after ps4 has launched. I waited 3 years after ps3 launch to buy one, and so will people with ps4, because launch consoles always have problems.
Tac Com Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. 47	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:07:00 - [26] - Quote tribal wyvern wrote: Smooth Head wrote: The game is very sub-par. It may improve a bit on the 6th, but CCP have a record of breaking as much as they fix. And on a variety of issues CCP have acted like deceptive prats while trying to flog off a game on an end of life platform. I wouldn't call this a brilliant state of affairs. 'End of life platform'? Boy what planet are you on? Ps3 has at leaste another 2-3 years life left. Not everyone will buy a ps4 on release. People will still be playing ps3 long after ps4 has launched. I waited 3 years after ps3 launch to buy one, and so will people with ps4, because launch consoles always have problems. Not to mention that even after a new console is released, there is still content being released for the older console for a few years. When a new console releases the majority of people who own consoles don't run out and buy it right away. Usually they wait for the dust to settle, a stronger lineup of games to come out, and when the price has come down from the early adoption period.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 56	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:14:00 - [27] - Quote This is the FACT. BF4 is coming out. And it won't be the game that gobbles up a huge player base, its the beta that comes before it. BF3 was far from great. But Battlefield games still have a very great player base. 1943. Anyone play it? ******* fun as hell. Looking for more TEAM BASED. Arma 3. That realistic. TEAM FORTRESS. Not that cartoony. SOCOM, MAG. Planetside 2. Twich skill fps? TRibes, UNREAL. and can go on.. THESE GAMES STILL HAVE AN ACTIVE PLAYER BASE FAR MORE THEN 5 months. With out the "SKILL TREE" of dust. But We won't know off the bat if dust is going to keep its numbers or gain, or lose. not may6 or in two weeks. time will tell. could be it ends up like eve. And thats a good and bad thing.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 201	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:16:00 - [28] - Quote I want to see people Criticize the Uprising build tomorrow, as CCP should be focused on fixing bugs/ problems with that build and not this one anymore. The game tomorrow is going to be a practically different game from today and im excited to see how it goes.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 201	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:21:00 - [29] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: This is the FACT. BF4 is coming out. And it won't be the game that gobbles up a huge player base, its the beta that comes before it. BF3 was far from great. But Battlefield games still have a very great player base. 1943. Anyone play it? ******* fun as hell. Looking for more TEAM BASED. Arma 3. That realistic. TEAM FORTRESS. Not that cartoony. SOCOM, MAG. Planetside 2. Twich skill fps? TRibes, UNREAL. and can go on.. THESE GAMES STILL HAVE AN ACTIVE PLAYER BASE FAR MORE THEN 5 months. With out the "SKILL TREE" of dust. But We won't know off the bat if dust is going to keep its numbers or gain, or lose. not may6 or in two weeks. time will tell. could be it ends up like eve. And thats a good and bad thing. It all depends on advertising (people will play a game if they know it exists beforehand right??? especially if its a free download......). and how streamlined they make it. The thing that'll really make this game last a long time is if CCP can find a way that streamlines the game enough to allow newbies to get in and have fun, while also keeping it deep enough for veterans to keep themselves occupied. All of this WONT be coming tomorrow, BUT I think the build after this one is when the game is going to start looking REALLLLYYY polished. Im almost positive drones will be appearing soon along with dozens of new dropsuits/weapons and vehicles...... the future is only looking brighter and im excited for it
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 818	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:31:00 - [30] - Quote Tarmageddon XIII wrote: Hi guys, thanks for the replies. With regard to this thread being in the wrong section, I saw that one of the rules in the Feedback section was not to make a list of items for feedback, I felt that my thread constituted a list as opposed to a single item for feedback, and that is why it went here. Apologies to the mods if I got it wrong. With regards to CoD I know it has a lot of followers and a lot of haters. From my point of view it fills a slot in the FPS market, and that is rapid, arcade-style gameplay with focus on speed and adrenaline rather than realism. Some people hate that, some people thrive on it. I see it as part of my expansive gaming menu. If I want a more battle-simulator type of FPS I will play BF3 or Arma, but if I am in the need of a "quick fix" rather than the focus of a proper battle I'll pick up CoD. I also appreciate that my comment about them setting the bar will go against the grain for a lot of people, but you only have to look at the sales success of both games to see that even if it's not your own PERSONAL cup of tea, they must be doing something right or no-one would buy it. I wasn't trying to pass off CoD as the last word in combat simulation, and I apologise for the mis-understanding if that's what you thought. Finally, to the person who said they hope I carry on playing and see how it ends up, I fully intend to. I can't play tomorrow when the patch comes out on account of being stuck on a ship working in the South China Sea at the moment, but it is definitely on the list to catch up with when I'm home. Thanks again for the replies, critiscisms and support. Gòª We'll look forward to an update. Hopefully soon and not Soon (tm) Keep up the good work.



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