DUST Search - CCP, Nerf the AR

Cosgar wrote:

Kiro Justice wrote:

Gonna get to straight to the point: The Duvolle is an automatic sniper rifle and the game is losing (has lost) its variety and flair. I didn't come to play AR514 but that's what it's turning into.

The AR guys have been QQ-ing about...Well...Everything and now, the only weapon that works IS the AR and a handful of others (MD, Laser Rifle, Sniper. Sometimes) everything else has been nerfed to **** (Tanks, HMG's, Dropships) and there's no reason to spec into another weapon.

Assault Rifle Uses

Area Denial - Check

Infantry Removal - Check

SNIPING - Check (Wtf?!)

Close, middle, long range engagements - Check, check, check.

You see the problem here. There is honestly no reason to do anything else. I'm not whining since, once every so often I use the AR but...Come on. This is ridiculous, there's no reason that I don't even have to ask people what they're specing into.

Me: What are you gonna do on May 6th?

Other guy and me : Assault Rifle (We say this at the same time, mind you.)

I would propose a damage nerf, kinda like the one you gave the HMG (Again, wtf?!) since there is no way on this side of reality that an assault rifle should be outdamaging an HMG.

Or simply Buff the heavy, I know you fear "Power Creep" but we fear having only one class in the game, which is what'll happen if this thing doesn't get nerfed or the heavy get buffed. I'd like to think our fears are more important, mainly due to the fact that we're your audience and you want to keep us here.

Just observations.

Truth be told, Dust 514 is appealing to the lowest common denominator right now. Not sure about uprising, but if the patch notes are any indication, it's going to stay the path. As of right now, the AR is the elephant in the room. It's the sole reason for all the rage, lack of variety, and unfun counter mechanics in the game, because there are no counters for it and if there are, people QQ about them until it's nerfed to novelty.
You're going to have great numbers of subscribers on Monday, that's a fact. But the question is, how long are you going to keep them around when this overpowered weapon is allowed to run rampant. I've had several friends that I've tried to bring into the game that ultimately quit because they die in 1/8th of a second to this thing. The range is too great, the damage is too high, and if you keep catering to it's primary users, you're going to shoot yourself in the foot. When the next popular shooter comes out, the majority of those people are going to leave, without even paying a penny. Then your dedicated community will be leaving next because of the state that the casuals have left the game: AR 514, another generic CoD/BF clone where the stats, classes, vehicles, other weapons and fittings are just fluff because the AR is the best weapon in the game.

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Kiro Justice The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 27	Posted - 2013.05.04 06:30:00 - [1] - Quote Gonna get to straight to the point: The Duvolle is an automatic sniper rifle and the game is losing (has lost) its variety and flair. I didn't come to play AR514 but that's what it's turning into. The AR guys have been QQ-ing about...Well...Everything and now, the only weapon that works IS the AR and a handful of others (MD, Laser Rifle, Sniper. Sometimes) everything else has been nerfed to **** (Tanks, HMG's, Dropships) and there's no reason to spec into another weapon. Assault Rifle Uses Area Denial - Check Infantry Removal - Check SNIPING - Check (Wtf?!) Close, middle, long range engagements - Check, check, check. You see the problem here. There is honestly no reason to do anything else. I'm not whining since, once every so often I use the AR but...Come on. This is ridiculous, there's no reason that I don't even have to ask people what they're specing into. Me: What are you gonna do on May 6th? Other guy and me : Assault Rifle (We say this at the same time, mind you.) I would propose a damage nerf, kinda like the one you gave the HMG (Again, wtf?!) since there is no way on this side of reality that an assault rifle should be outdamaging an HMG. Or simply Buff the heavy, I know you fear "Power Creep" but we fear having only one class in the game, which is what'll happen if this thing doesn't get nerfed or the heavy get buffed. I'd like to think our fears are more important, mainly due to the fact that we're your audience and you want to keep us here. Just observations.
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 156	Posted - 2013.05.04 06:32:00 - [2] - Quote Lmao another thread
Kiro Justice The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 27	Posted - 2013.05.04 06:34:00 - [3] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Lmao another thread Yes Imp. CCP apparently only learns through being badgered about something, such as the unrealistic amount of "Heavys are OP" threads that were around back in about January. They eventually listened, but then nerfed them to hell.
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 220	Posted - 2013.05.04 06:36:00 - [4] - Quote Hey wait, they can't destroy vehicles yet on their own, good job there isn't a handy broken type of grenade that allows players to solo matches
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 156	Posted - 2013.05.04 06:37:00 - [5] - Quote Kiro Justice wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Lmao another thread Yes Imp. CCP apparently only learns through being badgered about something, such as the unrealistic amount of "Heavys are OP" threads that were around back in about January. They eventually listened, but then nerfed them to hell. Then where was the creo buff why the flattning of ar its not the duvolle its the other ones are to close to its damage...wait till we play the build before wanting a buff
Kiro Justice The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 29	Posted - 2013.05.04 06:44:00 - [6] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: Hey wait, they can't destroy vehicles yet on their own, good job there isn't a handy broken type of grenade that allows players to solo matches Vehicle fails have nothing to do with this topic. I realize vehicles are gimped too, and I sympathize. I'm not posting about AV vs. Vehicles just yet. I do understand that AV should force people to be more dedicated, so that Super tanks aren't getting popped by militia AV. That's far from fair and downright ridiculous.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 420	Posted - 2013.05.04 06:58:00 - [7] - Quote Kiro Justice wrote: Gonna get to straight to the point: The Duvolle is an automatic sniper rifle and the game is losing (has lost) its variety and flair. I didn't come to play AR514 but that's what it's turning into. The AR guys have been QQ-ing about...Well...Everything and now, the only weapon that works IS the AR and a handful of others (MD, Laser Rifle, Sniper. Sometimes) everything else has been nerfed to **** (Tanks, HMG's, Dropships) and there's no reason to spec into another weapon. Assault Rifle Uses Area Denial - Check Infantry Removal - Check SNIPING - Check (Wtf?!) Close, middle, long range engagements - Check, check, check. You see the problem here. There is honestly no reason to do anything else. I'm not whining since, once every so often I use the AR but...Come on. This is ridiculous, there's no reason that I don't even have to ask people what they're specing into. Me: What are you gonna do on May 6th? Other guy and me : Assault Rifle (We say this at the same time, mind you.) I would propose a damage nerf, kinda like the one you gave the HMG (Again, wtf?!) since there is no way on this side of reality that an assault rifle should be outdamaging an HMG. Or simply Buff the heavy, I know you fear "Power Creep" but we fear having only one class in the game, which is what'll happen if this thing doesn't get nerfed or the heavy get buffed. I'd like to think our fears are more important, mainly due to the fact that we're your audience and you want to keep us here. Just observations. Truth be told, Dust 514 is appealing to the lowest common denominator right now. Not sure about uprising, but if the patch notes are any indication, it's going to stay the path. As of right now, the AR is the elephant in the room. It's the sole reason for all the rage, lack of variety, and unfun counter mechanics in the game, because there are no counters for it and if there are, people QQ about them until it's nerfed to novelty. You're going to have great numbers of subscribers on Monday, that's a fact. But the question is, how long are you going to keep them around when this overpowered weapon is allowed to run rampant. I've had several friends that I've tried to bring into the game that ultimately quit because they die in 1/8th of a second to this thing. The range is too great, the damage is too high, and if you keep catering to it's primary users, you're going to shoot yourself in the foot. When the next popular shooter comes out, the majority of those people are going to leave, without even paying a penny. Then your dedicated community will be leaving next because of the state that the casuals have left the game: AR 514, another generic CoD/BF clone where the stats, classes, vehicles, other weapons and fittings are just fluff because the AR is the best weapon in the game.
Kiro Justice The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 29	Posted - 2013.05.04 07:05:00 - [8] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Kiro Justice wrote: Gonna get to straight to the point: The Duvolle is an automatic sniper rifle and the game is losing (has lost) its variety and flair. I didn't come to play AR514 but that's what it's turning into. The AR guys have been QQ-ing about...Well...Everything and now, the only weapon that works IS the AR and a handful of others (MD, Laser Rifle, Sniper. Sometimes) everything else has been nerfed to **** (Tanks, HMG's, Dropships) and there's no reason to spec into another weapon. Assault Rifle Uses Area Denial - Check Infantry Removal - Check SNIPING - Check (Wtf?!) Close, middle, long range engagements - Check, check, check. You see the problem here. There is honestly no reason to do anything else. I'm not whining since, once every so often I use the AR but...Come on. This is ridiculous, there's no reason that I don't even have to ask people what they're specing into. Me: What are you gonna do on May 6th? Other guy and me : Assault Rifle (We say this at the same time, mind you.) I would propose a damage nerf, kinda like the one you gave the HMG (Again, wtf?!) since there is no way on this side of reality that an assault rifle should be outdamaging an HMG. Or simply Buff the heavy, I know you fear "Power Creep" but we fear having only one class in the game, which is what'll happen if this thing doesn't get nerfed or the heavy get buffed. I'd like to think our fears are more important, mainly due to the fact that we're your audience and you want to keep us here. Just observations. Truth be told, Dust 514 is appealing to the lowest common denominator right now. Not sure about uprising, but if the patch notes are any indication, it's going to stay the path. As of right now, the AR is the elephant in the room. It's the sole reason for all the rage, lack of variety, and unfun counter mechanics in the game, because there are no counters for it and if there are, people QQ about them until it's nerfed to novelty. You're going to have great numbers of subscribers on Monday, that's a fact. But the question is, how long are you going to keep them around when this overpowered weapon is allowed to run rampant. I've had several friends that I've tried to bring into the game that ultimately quit because they die in 1/8th of a second to this thing. The range is too great, the damage is too high, and if you keep catering to it's primary users, you're going to shoot yourself in the foot. When the next popular shooter comes out, the majority of those people are going to leave, without even paying a penny. Then your dedicated community will be leaving next because of the state that the casuals have left the game: AR 514, another generic CoD/BF clone where the stats, classes, vehicles, other weapons and fittings are just fluff because the AR is the best weapon in the game. I wholeheartedly agree. PC won't be fun if everyone is using the same gun. Neither will FW, none of the "Links to EVE" or "Single Server" BS will mean a thing because everyone will be using the same gun. In essence, you won't be ALLOWED to use anything except the AR due to the fact that it'll be the only gun that wins, and no Corp is gonna keep a loser, you'll be kicked from your corp, or at the very least, not allowed to participate in important fights. There will be no "I was there" because no one will BE there. I came to this game for depth and involvement. All I'm getting is shot in the face by AR's and occasionally shooting people in the face with them, which is fun and all but I'd love to be able to do it with...ANY other weapon without being penalized for not using an AR.
Mary Sedillo XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 17	Posted - 2013.05.04 07:07:00 - [9] - Quote People complaining and hardly playing the game. I see deaths from many other weapons besides the AR.
Kiro Justice The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 30	Posted - 2013.05.04 07:10:00 - [10] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: People complaining and hardly playing the game. I see deaths from many other weapons besides the AR. See...I play the game everyday. Or almost at least, and the fact that someone CAN die to another weapon doesn't say that the AR isn't OP. All it says is that other weapons shoot bullets, which are lethal. Woohoo. The AR is OP. If you're gonna comment at least make sure to be on topic.

Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 420	Posted - 2013.05.04 07:20:00 - [11] - Quote Kiro Justice wrote: I wholeheartedly agree. PC won't be fun if everyone is using the same gun. Neither will FW, none of the "Links to EVE" or "Single Server" BS will mean a thing because everyone will be using the same gun. In essence, you won't be ALLOWED to use anything except the AR due to the fact that it'll be the only gun that wins, and no Corp is gonna keep a loser, you'll be kicked from your corp, or at the very least, not allowed to participate in important fights. There will be no "I was there" because no one will BE there. I came to this game for depth and involvement. All I'm getting is shot in the face by AR's and occasionally shooting people in the face with them, which is fun and all but I'd love to be able to do it with...ANY other weapon without being penalized for not using an AR. Exactly, and there won't be any full scale battles like this because HAV have been reduced to redline snipers in cardboard box armor, heavies are confined to camping, scouts are the same speed as assaults, nobody gives a **** about logibros, dropships are still flying pinata and LAVs are are... well, you know.... Instead, every battle is going to take place on a flat surface with people running around like lemmings on crack with their stacked damage modded Duvolles that can kill you in 4 shots. At that rate, why not just cut out the middle man and take out all the modules, SP, skills, shields, armor, guns... etc and just take money out of your wallet every time you die?
Rich o United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 21	Posted - 2013.05.04 07:31:00 - [12] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: People complaining and hardly playing the game. I see deaths from many other weapons besides the AR. This And I can't see the problem - the AR is the standard weapon in most FPSs out there, people are used to it. Any other weapon requires more skill and of course other tactics to not get killed literally every 10 secs and there are a lot of guys out there who are able to use them in the way they're ment to work. I highly welcome the HMG-range-buff as it is ridiculous that LVL1-HMGs can kill well fitted advanced assault suits in 80m range. The HMG is a killer at short range, and that is where it should be operated. It also is perfectly clear that LVL-1 heavys can be killed by proto-ARs at close range. Additionally the range buff applies to all weapons, so the outcome is the same, but people have to get closer to get a hit
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 213	Posted - 2013.05.04 07:40:00 - [13] - Quote To be very specific, the problem isn't ARs in general. It's the fully-automatic standard one. (MLT, STD, Exile, Gek, and Duvolle). The AR is SUPPOSED to be good at everything (WITHIN the scope of it's variants), but currently the variants are near useless compared to the full-auto one. THAT' the problem with the AR. Tactical AR = meant for mid to long-range semi-auto counter-sniping and flank harassment. Burst AR = meant for mid-range precision assaulting Full Auto AR = meant for close to lower mid-range assaulting (but is instead doing the job of the other three variants) Breach AR = meant for heavy cqc. It sucks, I know. But it will change come Uprising. Didn't you hear that the Sharpshooter skill was getting reworked? Full auto ARs are going to play the correct CQC to mid-range role they were supposed to. Tacticals and Burst ARs are going to be the necessary ARs for long range.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 421	Posted - 2013.05.04 07:48:00 - [14] - Quote Rich o wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: People complaining and hardly playing the game. I see deaths from many other weapons besides the AR. This And I can't see the problem - the AR is the standard weapon in most FPSs out there, people are used to it. Any other weapon requires more skill and of course other tactics to not get killed literally every 10 secs and there are a lot of guys out there who are able to use them in the way they're ment to work. I highly welcome the HMG-range-buff as it is ridiculous that LVL1-HMGs can kill well fitted advanced assault suits in 80m range. The HMG is a killer at short range, and that is where it should be operated. It also is perfectly clear that LVL-1 heavys can be killed by proto-ARs at close range. Additionally the range buff applies to all weapons, so the outcome is the same, but people have to get closer to get a hit Problem is that any tom **** and harry can stack some complex damage mods and pew pew from across the map, praying and spraying to take people out. I don't even think people ADS anymore since there's nothing to differentiate dispersion and kick. Heavies have a learning curve. They're a good beginner class for anyone new to the game but after a certain point, you hit a wall in skill and have to decide on whether or not you want to specialize in your weapon and role due to SP requirements. Assaults with an AR, can get a primo fitting on day 1 and can go out there collecting kills like it's nobody's business because of imbalance. There's no wall, no need to change in tactics, just dakka! dakka! dakka! from 100m+ in a red dot's general direction until you run out of ammo or they die. There are pros out there who do it way better than the others can but how often do they stand out because there's no ceiling to separate the scrubs from the elite?
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 425	Posted - 2013.05.04 09:16:00 - [15] - Quote In before some AR tryhard comes in here spouting about how we all have a weak gun game, HTFU, or whatever generic nonsense. In before IMP trolling too.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 250	Posted - 2013.05.04 12:37:00 - [16] - Quote you all have a weak gun game, HTFU!!!!! In all seriousness though, the sndrd AR is OP, but learn from the AR users mistakes. Don't QQ too hard, or else they will nerf it into novelty like everything else, and all we will have left is the MD, Scrambler rifle, and lazer rifle. We still want it to be a viable weapon choice.
Straum Arjn Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. 1	Posted - 2013.05.04 21:31:00 - [17] - Quote I agree with slypie11. Since I just ranted about this on another topic I will just copy and paste! [RANT] While I do agree that HMGs needed no nerfing, I do not wish to be upstaged by my own feelings of being slighted. So in short (and with no whining); As a HMG I frequently find myself needing to get within shotgun range of enemies to really do my HMG thing. Which is totally fine, personally I think HMGs should possess more range simply due to the fact that when the barrel overheats it actually warps and accuracy should go down with more spin, not up. That is silly. If you would simply look at the Minigun in military helicopters my point is made. Helicopters use (what should be considered incredibly low-tech versions) of the heavy dropsuit deployed HMG, yet they use it to attack ground forces from the sky. That requires serious range and accuracy. Despite this misgiving I would have been happy if CCP just increased the damage to compensate for the fact that it is called a "Heavy" Machine Gun. Thus implying higher caliber, more barrels and more rounds. Due to it's incredibly poor range I have found myself getting shot to death by advanced level ARs even in proto heavy dropsuits with a proto HMG. It's not the range really that's the issue (but if the HMG range would be increased and the trade off would be increase dispersion rate with increase heat build-up cause that's how barrels and bullets actually work, that would be fine) but more the damage output. There is no reason an AR should kill a heavy dropsuit faster than a HMG can kill an assault dropsuit and yes this example takes place at HMG effective range. I'm sure I'm not the only HMG who has lost an HMG duel with an assault dropsuit toting an AR. Personally the best fix for the HMG I could think of is 1)increase damage so that it does in fact deal more damage than ARs of the equivalent level, 2)increase the maximum range of the HMG, thusly doing the first thing, or 3) make the HMG AR accurate with it's opening spooling and the accuracy go down with increased heat build-up (which is how real guns work). [/RANT] I personally do not think ARs need nerfing at all. They function like they should function. The problem is that CCP nerfed the HMG so that it no longer functions like a heavy calibre, multi-barreled, death spitting machine. IMO. EDIT: I just desperately want to not have to be a logi-bro walking around with an AR. I just love my HMG but I won't play with something that is a trap, especially in a game with fairly permanent and serious consequences like DUST.
Sinned Deluvian Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:17:00 - [18] - Quote Some may find the assault rifle to be OP, but it is definitely not unbeatable. In my experience as an assault, it is extremely hard to kill a LR user at long range and the same can be said for a HMG user at short range. Could be because I don't usually use Duvolles but then again what proto gear isn't overpowered? Call me crazy but I don't think the AR is unbalanced. The problem probably lies with the other weapons, some of which may be hard to master or unbalanced. There are those complain about HMG's range, but in my experience it performs just fine even in long ranges, then again since I rarely play as a heavy I guess my opinion doesn't really count. I guess that's the only controversy right now, as I can't think of any other weapon under powered. The real reason why ARs are so common is not because they are OP but because the assault class allows for more kills and you know how obsessed people are with their K/D ratio. Lets admit it, its hard to keep the pace with an assault when it comes to kills when you are using a heavy, let alone a logi. That is why there will always be more AR users compared to the rest.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 462	Posted - 2013.05.05 07:48:00 - [19] - Quote The elephant in the room goes ignored once again...
Exmaple Core SyNergy Gaming EoN. 247	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:36:00 - [20] - Quote Cosgar wrote: The elephant in the room goes ignored once again... I HATE ELEPHANTS SHOOT THEM WITH ARS!!

Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 545	Posted - 2013.05.08 09:40:00 - [21] - Quote Elephant in the room still went ignored when everything else took a hit. Why am I not surprised?
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 264	Posted - 2013.05.08 10:15:00 - [22] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Elephant in the room still went ignored when everything else took a hit. Why am I not surprised? Dude i'm in the beta from when the Swarm Launcher oneshotted infantry and i can tell you that this is this is the first time that i really don't want to play dust. The game now disgusts me and i've been there for ALL the beta and i've always liked it. Now the AR is the only weapon worth using and dust have lost ALL of it's tactical gameplay. I hope that CCP likes their new COD clone 514. You CCP failed yourself.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 553	Posted - 2013.05.08 10:56:00 - [23] - Quote Eh, it's not as bad as CoD... yet. But nerfiing everything but the AR was just foul play. Either ramp the damage up to what everything else used to be, or nerf the AR. Stop the favoritism CCP. Having an OP AR might bring in the CoDboys, but the people that have been here since day one are going to be here for the long haul. Do I have to QQ to get something done? Seemed to work for everyone QQing about the HMG.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 826	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:09:00 - [24] - Quote Goddammit this thread exemplifies everything that brought us the uprising weapon changes. Knock this crap off damn you. Last thing we need is another nerfbat round. Only nova knives and myofybril stimulants will be viable anymore.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 348	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:11:00 - [25] - Quote only thing i want is a nerf to RoF for the TAR. its silly that has a higher RoF then fully auto and have over double the damage. the modded controller users are running crazy with this.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 133	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:54:00 - [26] - Quote Do not nerf the AR, it's weak as hell as are all the other weapons. If we keep this up we'll all end up with 1dps and taking 10 full clips to take anyone down...
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 349	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:08:00 - [27] - Quote there's only one type only one type of AR that was buffed to much and it the TAR(tactical assault rifle) and the fix for remove the use of a modded controller to be overpowered by reducing the RoF (rate of fire) .
Monsku Kifini Rautaleijona 8	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:41:00 - [28] - Quote All I have to say is https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74371&find=unread
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 421	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:58:00 - [29] - Quote Um guys you realize none of the new weapons are out yet right? So as far as you know the scrambler could be even more powerful as its stats indicate it does at least as much dmg as the tact rifle right? Oh wait I forgot you dont want to listen to reason. Why dont you wait to call any weapon OP until we have all the weapons that are coming out in this build. Regarding weapons that may need some adjusting.........I agree the HMG was nerfed hard. And if I was to be honest it was too much of a nerf. Now I dont exactly feel bad for them since all they have always said when another weapon is nerfed unfairly is HTFU.
Obsidian Rex Planetary Response Organization 8	Posted - 2013.05.08 13:37:00 - [30] - Quote In all honesty, the HMG did require a nerf, but this is just rediculous. The HMG needs at least a range buff. The AR is a bit OP at the moment, I can knock down any proto+ with the basic Assault Rifle, I only skilled AR to 1 for it because I skilled into scrambler rifle 3 and needed something to use until it got released. For right now, the AR needs a bit of a damage nerf about 5-10 points at most. Nothing big, just a small bit.



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