DUST Search - Faction Warfare has same Rewards as Instant Battles (winning doesn't matter)

low genius wrote:

Baal Roo wrote:

So, FoxFour has verified HERE that the faction warfare rewards will be the same as Instant Battles.

This means that all of the problems with Instant Battle will now carry over into Faction Warfare.

With no clear bonus for WINNING, expect entire TEAMS of single corps/alliances derping around in militia fits and free LAVs with ZERO incentive to actually win matches. As a director of one of the largest corps in the game, this is what I have already instructed my comrades to expect to do/see in this game mode, and any other corps that don't have their heads up their rear ends will be doing the same.

I've been defending the mechanics of "everyone gets participation points" for Instant Battles under the premise that instant battles were designed for new players and that FW would surely have higher rewards that heavily favored the winners of each match. This would give players an INCENTIVE above simple participation points to move to FW and actually fight.

Unfortunately, with FW being announced as having the same payouts as instant battles, it turns out I was completely wrong.

If this isn't fixed, this game is screwed, plain and simple. This leaves the vast majority of the gameplay in a situation where winning doesn't matter, and the most effective way to make money is to lose as cheaply as possible.

Absolutely pathetic CCP.

I was EXTREMELY excited for the update, now with this single announcement I could hardly care less.

we don't care if you don't care.

jagoff, or qq. whichever you want.

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Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1316	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:39:00 - [1] - Quote So, FoxFour has verified HERE that the faction warfare rewards will be the same as Instant Battles. This means that all of the problems with Instant Battle will now carry over into Faction Warfare. With no clear bonus for WINNING, expect entire TEAMS of single corps/alliances derping around in militia fits and free LAVs with ZERO incentive to actually win matches. As a director of one of the largest corps in the game, this is what I have already instructed my comrades to expect to do/see in this game mode, and any other corps that don't have their heads up their rear ends will be doing the same. I've been defending the mechanics of "everyone gets participation points" for Instant Battles under the premise that instant battles were designed for new players and that FW would surely have higher rewards that heavily favored the winners of each match. This would give players an INCENTIVE above simple participation points to move to FW and actually fight. Unfortunately, with FW being announced as having the same payouts as instant battles, it turns out I was completely wrong. If this isn't fixed, this game is screwed, plain and simple. This leaves the vast majority of the gameplay in a situation where winning doesn't matter, and the most effective way to make money is to lose as cheaply as possible. Absolutely pathetic CCP. I was EXTREMELY excited for the update, now with this single announcement I could hardly care less.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 245	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:42:00 - [2] - Quote Fox, that is one of the dumbest things I have ever experienced CCP do. My mind is blown by the sheer stupidity of the stupidness. The stupidness might as well be taking on physical form right here in my attioh god its got me!! Oh my god help me pleafafaefasfaef aef afafasf
Nstomper Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 262	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:43:00 - [3] - Quote They said for now the loot will be the same
Nstomper Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 262	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:46:00 - [4] - Quote Quote: For now the FW battle rewards will match those of instant battles. We are looking into ways we can change this, things like if you fight for one faction continuously you gain standings and the standings affect your reward.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 385	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:47:00 - [5] - Quote it does seem like they are steering into this AFK thing, but damn if i cant move in this forum without hitting a couple panic buttons. who brought all these panic buttons?
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1113	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:51:00 - [6] - Quote Yea but, theoretically....you will be fighting for your alliance or eve corp bonus....so, you may see adv level or higher gear because plahers want to win. More gear lost = higher payouts. I expect to see more corps playing those and not randoms. Payouts should be $300K at the low end.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 142	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:55:00 - [7] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yea but, theoretically....you will be fighting for your alliance or eve corp bonus....so, you may see adv level or higher gear because plahers want to win. More gear lost = higher payouts. I expect to see more corps playing those and not randoms. Payouts should be $300K at the low end. You're apparently not familiar with the state of FW in Eve currently. FW is for farming ISK, so 95% of FW Instant Battles with be populated with AFKers looking to farm ISK and salvage.
crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1089	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:57:00 - [8] - Quote No reward for winning??? If you care about dust you'll join me on a epic ark fest starting may 6th. When your online you should play , when you have dinner or whatever we need to come together to support this games future by clogging up the pipes or the damage will be done when its too late and the game will be ruine The ** ccp every game gives the winners a reward , in dust nothing means ** .
crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1089	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:59:00 - [9] - Quote Nstomper wrote: They said for now the loot will be the same Its not a beta anymore, that excuse is dead
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 21	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:01:00 - [10] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: So, FoxFour has verified HERE that the faction warfare rewards will be the same as Instant Battles. This means that all of the problems with Instant Battle will now carry over into Faction Warfare. With no clear bonus for WINNING, expect entire TEAMS of single corps/alliances derping around in militia fits and free LAVs with ZERO incentive to actually win matches. As a director of one of the largest corps in the game, this is what I have already instructed my comrades to expect to do/see in this game mode, and any other corps that don't have their heads up their rear ends will be doing the same. I've been defending the mechanics of "everyone gets participation points" for Instant Battles under the premise that instant battles were designed for new players and that FW would surely have higher rewards that heavily favored the winners of each match. This would give players an INCENTIVE above simple participation points to move to FW and actually fight. Unfortunately, with FW being announced as having the same payouts as instant battles, it turns out I was completely wrong. If this isn't fixed, this game is screwed, plain and simple. This leaves the vast majority of the gameplay in a situation where winning doesn't matter, and the most effective way to make money is to lose as cheaply as possible. Absolutely pathetic CCP. I was EXTREMELY excited for the update, now with this single announcement I could hardly care less. we don't care if you don't care. jagoff, or qq. whichever you want.

Don Von Hulio Not Guilty EoN. 211	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:07:00 - [11] - Quote What is the purpose of even doing FW then. EvE is the only side that gets the benefits of doing FW, and most people who play DUST dont play EvE.... looks like they reeeaally want us to but heads in PC when it comes along.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1317	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:15:00 - [12] - Quote low genius wrote: Baal Roo wrote: So, FoxFour has verified HERE that the faction warfare rewards will be the same as Instant Battles. This means that all of the problems with Instant Battle will now carry over into Faction Warfare. With no clear bonus for WINNING, expect entire TEAMS of single corps/alliances derping around in militia fits and free LAVs with ZERO incentive to actually win matches. As a director of one of the largest corps in the game, this is what I have already instructed my comrades to expect to do/see in this game mode, and any other corps that don't have their heads up their rear ends will be doing the same. I've been defending the mechanics of "everyone gets participation points" for Instant Battles under the premise that instant battles were designed for new players and that FW would surely have higher rewards that heavily favored the winners of each match. This would give players an INCENTIVE above simple participation points to move to FW and actually fight. Unfortunately, with FW being announced as having the same payouts as instant battles, it turns out I was completely wrong. If this isn't fixed, this game is screwed, plain and simple. This leaves the vast majority of the gameplay in a situation where winning doesn't matter, and the most effective way to make money is to lose as cheaply as possible. Absolutely pathetic CCP. I was EXTREMELY excited for the update, now with this single announcement I could hardly care less. we don't care if you don't care. jagoff, or qq. whichever you want. I'm afraid that the majority of the player base will be taking your advice. That's the point of the post. If there's no incentive to win battles, why bother playing?
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1317	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:30:00 - [13] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: it does seem like they are steering into this AFK thing, but damn if i cant move in this forum without hitting a couple panic buttons. who brought all these panic buttons? I don't have to AFK to spend zero ISK in a match. I can call in a free LAV in my free militia suit and drive it around all match. Either way, I'll be making similar wages. Sure I can wager more on nicer suits, but why bother with the risk? Because some guy playing a different video game that can't effect me in any way will get a benefit? Nah, don't care, and I don't suspect the large majority of players will care either.
Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 398	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:34:00 - [14] - Quote We do care and I for one am extremely disappointed. There is now absolutely zero point to FW in Dust. It's in fact even worse now than it was because it's no longer even going to get your corp bragging rights over beating another corp because it could just be a bunch of randoms you're up against. The rewards need to be important. There needs to be incentive. At the very least CCP should implement the same loot system as in PC - that will encourage people to go out and kill and ravage.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 249	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:34:00 - [15] - Quote Didn't I make a thread talking about the issues of free militia gear in FW? And people told me I was QQ'ing. Now when the issue is a reality, how everyone sings a different tune. Maybe you morons should've listen to me before this became a real problem. Now you get to suffer through it. Have fun.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1317	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:39:00 - [16] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Didn't I make a thread talking about the issues of free militia gear in FW? And people told me I was QQ'ing. Now when the issue is a reality, how everyone sings a different tune. Maybe you morons should've listened to me before this became a real problem. Now you get to suffer through it. Have fun. The problem isn't the militia gear though, it's the lack of incentive for A: playing in FW in the first place B: Winning matches in FW If I get paid, say, 4x as much ISK for WINNING in FW as I do for LOSING, then I'll pull out my quality gear and try to win. But then again, if I can LOSE in FW and make as much as LOSING in Instant Battles, I can just LOSE in FW and make more ISK since I know there's a higher likelihood of nicer gear in FW. The solution is obvious Make LOSING a FW match rake in about HALF as much ISK as losing in Instant Battles, but make WINNING rake in AT LEAST 3x as much ISK. This way, people will play FW when they WANT TO WIN, and we can all expect FW to be the place to go when you want to actually play the game the way it was intended to be played (the whole "your actions and choices matter") thing.
Lasarte Ioni Noob Gaming 95	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:46:00 - [17] - Quote Maybe we should all wait and see it happen before pressing all the panic buttons, we are talking about a thing that can be kept permanently and for the same reason you go AFK (read: potential) ppl will fight to get it (just in case that in some future it holds value) and ppl in militia will face someone who WANTS that piece of land they are holding, and if they are using militia, chances are they won't get to keep it. On the other hand, you ain't expending 80M on some clones to attack a district and then fit em with militia gear, it saying GG before playing. TL;DR: keep your hands away from the panic buttons, something might blow up.
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 110	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:49:00 - [18] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: Maybe we should all wait and see it happen before pressing all the panic buttons, we are talking about a thing that can be kept permanently and for the same reason you go AFK (read: potential) ppl will fight to get it (just in case that in some future it holds value) and ppl in militia will face someone who WANTS that piece of land they are holding, and if they are using militia, chances are they won't get to keep it. On the other hand, you ain't expending 80M on some clones to attack a district and then fit em with militia gear, it saying GG before playing. TL;DR: keep your hands away from the panic buttons, something might blow up. Clones? FW is not PC.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1317	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:49:00 - [19] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: Maybe we should all wait and see it happen before pressing all the panic buttons, we are talking about a thing that can be kept permanently and for the same reason you go AFK (read: potential) ppl will fight to get it (just in case that in some future it holds value) and ppl in militia will face someone who WANTS that piece of land they are holding, and if they are using militia, chances are they won't get to keep it. On the other hand, you ain't expending 80M on some clones to attack a district and then fit em with militia gear, it saying GG before playing. TL;DR: keep your hands away from the panic buttons, something might blow up. Dude, you're not even talking about Faction Warfare, you're talking about Planetary Conquest. Faction Warfare does not allow players to hold territory. As they've currently designed it, Faction Warfare, for DUST players, is identical to Instant Battles except that we can bring our entire team to bear instead of just a single squad. There is no land to hold, no clones to buy, nothing. Instead of squads of 4 not playing, we'll be seeing teams of 16 not playing. [sarcasm]oh boy, hold onto your hats, this is gonna be exciting [/sarcasm]
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 246	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:51:00 - [20] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: Maybe we should all wait and see it happen before pressing all the panic buttons, we are talking about a thing that can be kept permanently and for the same reason you go AFK (read: potential) ppl will fight to get it (just in case that in some future it holds value) and ppl in militia will face someone who WANTS that piece of land they are holding, and if they are using militia, chances are they won't get to keep it. On the other hand, you ain't expending 80M on some clones to attack a district and then fit em with militia gear, it saying GG before playing. TL;DR: keep your hands away from the panic buttons, something might blow up. You idiot, we're talking about FW not PC. Get your facts straight

Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1318	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:57:00 - [21] - Quote http://qkme.me/3u8evx
ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 16	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:57:00 - [22] - Quote He already said in that same post that real rewards for FW will be coming SoonTM. Just gotta be paitent... that is the CCP way.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1318	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:59:00 - [23] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: He already said in that same post that real rewards for FW will be coming SoonTM. Just gotta be paitent... that is the CCP way. Yeah, "Soon(tm)". Meaning, the game will be playable in just another short 6-12 months. How hard is it to make the rewards NOT ******** up front? Apparently for CCP: too hard.
ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 16	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:06:00 - [24] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: He already said in that same post that real rewards for FW will be coming SoonTM. Just gotta be paitent... that is the CCP way. Yeah, "Soon(tm)". Meaning, the game will be playable in just another short 6-12 months. How hard is it to make the rewards NOT ******** up front? Apparently for CCP: too hard. Honestly.. all FW is going to be is randomly generated corp matches with some isk reward. You can pick sides... meaning Q syncing 2-3 squads from same corp will be rampant, and the only 'non-pubstomp' FW battles are gonna be corp vs corp q syncing. Yeah, I have a feeling FW is gonna flop pretty quick.
Lasarte Ioni Noob Gaming 95	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:06:00 - [25] - Quote yep, my fault, i thought FW was being replaced with PC....
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1114	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:11:00 - [26] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yea but, theoretically....you will be fighting for your alliance or eve corp bonus....so, you may see adv level or higher gear because plahers want to win. More gear lost = higher payouts. I expect to see more corps playing those and not randoms. Payouts should be $300K at the low end. You're apparently not familiar with the state of FW in Eve currently. FW is for farming ISK, so 95% of FW Instant Battles will be populated with AFKers looking to farm ISK and salvage. How does eve isk farming equate to dust afk farming????
Malefactor 00420 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 52	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:11:00 - [27] - Quote So basically these are going to be instant battles with orbitals. Thats it. There is no incentive to play them, win them, or take them seriously. Either way your clone will progress and ISK will be made. Furthermore for those that DO care about what happens in space with FW and any current or future these battles will have on the actual FW in EVE.. without any sort of factional standing or incentive for winning there will be no stopping a corp from trying to stack both sides of a battle and basically forcing one side to be at a major disadvantage. If 4-8 of the 16 are trying to run over teammates in LAVs, cooking grenades in front of them, alerting enemies to snipers, etc.. it will be awfully tough to win. As much as I want to see new combat modes, this one seems to be a little lacking in structure to make it useful.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1318	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:13:00 - [28] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Baal Roo wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: He already said in that same post that real rewards for FW will be coming SoonTM. Just gotta be paitent... that is the CCP way. Yeah, "Soon(tm)". Meaning, the game will be playable in just another short 6-12 months. How hard is it to make the rewards NOT ******** up front? Apparently for CCP: too hard. Honestly.. all FW is going to be is randomly generated corp matches with some isk reward. You can pick sides... meaning Q syncing 2-3 squads from same corp will be rampant, and the only 'non-pubstomp' FW battles are gonna be corp vs corp q syncing. Yeah, I have a feeling FW is gonna flop pretty quick. I think most of the player base was hoping FW would be where Dust 514's day to day, hour to hour, meat and potatoes gameplay would reside. That we would see a system where we were enticed to actually try to WIN matches through actual REWARDS. We thought that the last 9 months of WAITING through a broken beta was nearly over. Turns out, the same "newb" mechanics of Instant Battles are apparently the "REAL" mechanics of the game. This is how they think people want to play, zero rewards, no reason to win, etc. We might as well go play CoD, Battlefield, etc if there's no incentive to win besides being able to say "we won and you lost". I want my WINS to contribute to ME and MY PROGRESSION, and FW will not provide that in any way for the forseeable future. We're left with a couple of matches a day, that a very small minority of each corp gets to participate in, that actually matter, and TWO ENTIRE GAME MODES that have absolutely ZERO point to play besides grinding up an imaginary number (SP) regardless of whether you actually try or not. Put on an expensive suit and try hard, and your opponents simply make more money from you. It's absolutely pathetic that CCP could get this THIS WRONG.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 144	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:17:00 - [29] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yea but, theoretically....you will be fighting for your alliance or eve corp bonus....so, you may see adv level or higher gear because plahers want to win. More gear lost = higher payouts. I expect to see more corps playing those and not randoms. Payouts should be $300K at the low end. You're apparently not familiar with the state of FW in Eve currently. FW is for farming ISK, so 95% of FW Instant Battles will be populated with AFKers looking to farm ISK and salvage. How does eve isk farming equate to dust afk farming???? When you AFK farm, you get ISK and Salvage in addition to the ill-gotten SP. FW in Eve is chock-full of farmers farming LP to convert to ISK. Given how FW is going to be in Dust, it will only be a matter of time before everyone is just AFK farming ISK, Salvage and SP through FW. Especially if they can q-sync and have 32 guys in the same match all AFK farming (stay as long as you like, the designated capturer of the objectives will be paying enough attention to capture them at the right time to end the match before the next appointed time to q-sync). Make no mistake, they will still be farming ISK, only they'll be AFK instead of in stabbed Merlins.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1318	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:20:00 - [30] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yea but, theoretically....you will be fighting for your alliance or eve corp bonus....so, you may see adv level or higher gear because plahers want to win. More gear lost = higher payouts. I expect to see more corps playing those and not randoms. Payouts should be $300K at the low end. You're apparently not familiar with the state of FW in Eve currently. FW is for farming ISK, so 95% of FW Instant Battles will be populated with AFKers looking to farm ISK and salvage. How does eve isk farming equate to dust afk farming???? Because, if your "incentive" is the alliance/corp bonus, the best way to game that incentive is to simply queue up 32 guys and throw the match. You make basically the same ISK for winning or losing, so who cares which side you pick? Everyone queues in, one side hacks the objectives, and then you have a militia gear demo derby until the MCC goes down. next match.



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