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Faction Warfare has same Rewards as Instant Battles (winning doesn't matter)

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Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1316	Posted - 2013.05.03 20:39:00 - [1] - Quote So, FoxFour has verified HERE that the faction warfare rewards will be the same as Instant Battles. This means that all of the problems with Instant Battle will now carry over into Faction Warfare. With no clear bonus for WINNING, expect entire TEAMS of single corps/alliances derping around in militia fits and free LAVs with ZERO incentive to actually win matches. As a director of one of the largest corps in the game, this is what I have already instructed my comrades to expect to do/see in this game mode, and any other corps that don't have their heads up their rear ends will be doing the same. I've been defending the mechanics of "everyone gets participation points" for Instant Battles under the premise that instant battles were designed for new players and that FW would surely have higher rewards that heavily favored the winners of each match. This would give players an INCENTIVE above simple participation points to move to FW and actually fight. Unfortunately, with FW being announced as having the same payouts as instant battles, it turns out I was completely wrong. If this isn't fixed, this game is screwed, plain and simple. This leaves the vast majority of the gameplay in a situation where winning doesn't matter, and the most effective way to make money is to lose as cheaply as possible. Absolutely pathetic CCP. I was EXTREMELY excited for the update, now with this single announcement I could hardly care less.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1317	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:15:00 - [2] - Quote low genius wrote: Baal Roo wrote: So, FoxFour has verified HERE that the faction warfare rewards will be the same as Instant Battles. This means that all of the problems with Instant Battle will now carry over into Faction Warfare. With no clear bonus for WINNING, expect entire TEAMS of single corps/alliances derping around in militia fits and free LAVs with ZERO incentive to actually win matches. As a director of one of the largest corps in the game, this is what I have already instructed my comrades to expect to do/see in this game mode, and any other corps that don't have their heads up their rear ends will be doing the same. I've been defending the mechanics of "everyone gets participation points" for Instant Battles under the premise that instant battles were designed for new players and that FW would surely have higher rewards that heavily favored the winners of each match. This would give players an INCENTIVE above simple participation points to move to FW and actually fight. Unfortunately, with FW being announced as having the same payouts as instant battles, it turns out I was completely wrong. If this isn't fixed, this game is screwed, plain and simple. This leaves the vast majority of the gameplay in a situation where winning doesn't matter, and the most effective way to make money is to lose as cheaply as possible. Absolutely pathetic CCP. I was EXTREMELY excited for the update, now with this single announcement I could hardly care less. we don't care if you don't care. jagoff, or qq. whichever you want. I'm afraid that the majority of the player base will be taking your advice. That's the point of the post. If there's no incentive to win battles, why bother playing?
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1317	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:30:00 - [3] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: it does seem like they are steering into this AFK thing, but damn if i cant move in this forum without hitting a couple panic buttons. who brought all these panic buttons? I don't have to AFK to spend zero ISK in a match. I can call in a free LAV in my free militia suit and drive it around all match. Either way, I'll be making similar wages. Sure I can wager more on nicer suits, but why bother with the risk? Because some guy playing a different video game that can't effect me in any way will get a benefit? Nah, don't care, and I don't suspect the large majority of players will care either.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1317	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:39:00 - [4] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Didn't I make a thread talking about the issues of free militia gear in FW? And people told me I was QQ'ing. Now when the issue is a reality, how everyone sings a different tune. Maybe you morons should've listened to me before this became a real problem. Now you get to suffer through it. Have fun. The problem isn't the militia gear though, it's the lack of incentive for A: playing in FW in the first place B: Winning matches in FW If I get paid, say, 4x as much ISK for WINNING in FW as I do for LOSING, then I'll pull out my quality gear and try to win. But then again, if I can LOSE in FW and make as much as LOSING in Instant Battles, I can just LOSE in FW and make more ISK since I know there's a higher likelihood of nicer gear in FW. The solution is obvious Make LOSING a FW match rake in about HALF as much ISK as losing in Instant Battles, but make WINNING rake in AT LEAST 3x as much ISK. This way, people will play FW when they WANT TO WIN, and we can all expect FW to be the place to go when you want to actually play the game the way it was intended to be played (the whole "your actions and choices matter") thing.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1317	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:49:00 - [5] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: Maybe we should all wait and see it happen before pressing all the panic buttons, we are talking about a thing that can be kept permanently and for the same reason you go AFK (read: potential) ppl will fight to get it (just in case that in some future it holds value) and ppl in militia will face someone who WANTS that piece of land they are holding, and if they are using militia, chances are they won't get to keep it. On the other hand, you ain't expending 80M on some clones to attack a district and then fit em with militia gear, it saying GG before playing. TL;DR: keep your hands away from the panic buttons, something might blow up. Dude, you're not even talking about Faction Warfare, you're talking about Planetary Conquest. Faction Warfare does not allow players to hold territory. As they've currently designed it, Faction Warfare, for DUST players, is identical to Instant Battles except that we can bring our entire team to bear instead of just a single squad. There is no land to hold, no clones to buy, nothing. Instead of squads of 4 not playing, we'll be seeing teams of 16 not playing. [sarcasm]oh boy, hold onto your hats, this is gonna be exciting [/sarcasm]
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1318	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:57:00 - [6] - Quote http://qkme.me/3u8evx
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1318	Posted - 2013.05.03 21:59:00 - [7] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: He already said in that same post that real rewards for FW will be coming SoonTM. Just gotta be paitent... that is the CCP way. Yeah, "Soon(tm)". Meaning, the game will be playable in just another short 6-12 months. How hard is it to make the rewards NOT ******** up front? Apparently for CCP: too hard.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1318	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:13:00 - [8] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Baal Roo wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: He already said in that same post that real rewards for FW will be coming SoonTM. Just gotta be paitent... that is the CCP way. Yeah, "Soon(tm)". Meaning, the game will be playable in just another short 6-12 months. How hard is it to make the rewards NOT ******** up front? Apparently for CCP: too hard. Honestly.. all FW is going to be is randomly generated corp matches with some isk reward. You can pick sides... meaning Q syncing 2-3 squads from same corp will be rampant, and the only 'non-pubstomp' FW battles are gonna be corp vs corp q syncing. Yeah, I have a feeling FW is gonna flop pretty quick. I think most of the player base was hoping FW would be where Dust 514's day to day, hour to hour, meat and potatoes gameplay would reside. That we would see a system where we were enticed to actually try to WIN matches through actual REWARDS. We thought that the last 9 months of WAITING through a broken beta was nearly over. Turns out, the same "newb" mechanics of Instant Battles are apparently the "REAL" mechanics of the game. This is how they think people want to play, zero rewards, no reason to win, etc. We might as well go play CoD, Battlefield, etc if there's no incentive to win besides being able to say "we won and you lost". I want my WINS to contribute to ME and MY PROGRESSION, and FW will not provide that in any way for the forseeable future. We're left with a couple of matches a day, that a very small minority of each corp gets to participate in, that actually matter, and TWO ENTIRE GAME MODES that have absolutely ZERO point to play besides grinding up an imaginary number (SP) regardless of whether you actually try or not. Put on an expensive suit and try hard, and your opponents simply make more money from you. It's absolutely pathetic that CCP could get this THIS WRONG.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1318	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:20:00 - [9] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yea but, theoretically....you will be fighting for your alliance or eve corp bonus....so, you may see adv level or higher gear because plahers want to win. More gear lost = higher payouts. I expect to see more corps playing those and not randoms. Payouts should be $300K at the low end. You're apparently not familiar with the state of FW in Eve currently. FW is for farming ISK, so 95% of FW Instant Battles will be populated with AFKers looking to farm ISK and salvage. How does eve isk farming equate to dust afk farming???? Because, if your "incentive" is the alliance/corp bonus, the best way to game that incentive is to simply queue up 32 guys and throw the match. You make basically the same ISK for winning or losing, so who cares which side you pick? Everyone queues in, one side hacks the objectives, and then you have a militia gear demo derby until the MCC goes down. next match.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1319	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:37:00 - [10] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yea but, theoretically....you will be fighting for your alliance or eve corp bonus....so, you may see adv level or higher gear because plahers want to win. More gear lost = higher payouts. I expect to see more corps playing those and not randoms. Payouts should be $300K at the low end. You're apparently not familiar with the state of FW in Eve currently. FW is for farming ISK, so 95% of FW Instant Battles will be populated with AFKers looking to farm ISK and salvage. How does eve isk farming equate to dust afk farming???? Because, if your "incentive" is the alliance/corp bonus, the best way to game that incentive is to simply queue up 32 guys and throw the match. You make basically the same ISK for winning or losing, so who cares which side you pick? Everyone queues in, one side hacks the objectives, and then you have a militia gear demo derby until the MCC goes down. next match. Well, if you fill a match with one corp then it doesn't matter to the rest of us because we won't be in the game watching you afk farm That's precisely the problem with your argument. The best way to "play" under this system, is to not play at all... at least, not with anyone outside your corporation. In reality, most of us don't actually care about the corp/alliance bonuses, because we are DUST players playing DUST 514. If we gave a **** about the EVE side stuff, we would be playing EVE. For US, there's no incentive to put on real gear and actually put up a real fight in FW, because you aren't rewarded for doing so. You're simply trading bragging rights for ACTUAL progression in the game... which is stupid. Bragging rights and progression should be tied to one another. I should be bragging because I'm getting ahead in the game faster than you are through good play. As it is now, there are two ways to brag: "I'm getting ahead faster than you because I don't care if I win matches" or "I'm willing to hinder my own development in order to beat people who don't care if they lose" Neither are particularly compelling reasons to play the game as far as I'm concerned.

Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1319	Posted - 2013.05.03 22:39:00 - [11] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yea but, theoretically....you will be fighting for your alliance or eve corp bonus....so, you may see adv level or higher gear because plahers want to win. More gear lost = higher payouts. I expect to see more corps playing those and not randoms. Payouts should be $300K at the low end. You're apparently not familiar with the state of FW in Eve currently. FW is for farming ISK, so 95% of FW Instant Battles will be populated with AFKers looking to farm ISK and salvage. How does eve isk farming equate to dust afk farming???? When you AFK farm, you get ISK and Salvage in addition to the ill-gotten SP. FW in Eve is chock-full of farmers farming LP to convert to ISK. Given how FW is going to be in Dust, it will only be a matter of time before everyone is just AFK farming ISK, Salvage and SP through FW. Especially if they can q-sync and have 32 guys in the same match all AFK farming (stay as long as you like, the designated capturer of the objectives will be paying enough attention to capture them at the right time to end the match before the next appointed time to q-sync). Make no mistake, they will still be farming ISK, only they'll be AFK instead of in stabbed Merlins. Well, they can do that in instant battle....what would be the point in doing that in a fw match? Eve isk farming will be the incentive to play fw since they will gdt bonuses on eve side. There is no p then q with eve isk farming and fw dust afk farming Demo derbies and generally screwing around are WAAAAY more fun with 16 participants.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1319	Posted - 2013.05.03 23:00:00 - [12] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Because ideally, Eve corps are supposed to pay you for getting bonuses for them. I don't care about the eve side either. But if they are paying you then there is your incentive. Sure, in a year or two, the basic gameplay may have a point to it. As it stands now, none of that matters, and won't matter for a very long time. We need solutions to make the game fun and rewarding NOW, not a few years from now. When they bring in all the extra stuff in expansions down the line, they can readjust things in line with what you're talking about. As it stands, for the next year or two, this just won't work. There won't be anyone left to care about the expansions if the game is this pointless until then. Considering how easily they have played with and tweaked SP/ISK payouts throughout the beta, it seems like fixing the payouts for FW so that WINNING actually matters would be a relatively "easy" thing to do.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1319	Posted - 2013.05.03 23:04:00 - [13] - Quote Spacetits CDXX wrote: Also, Baal, please take it easy on the capitalizing whole words for emphasis thing. sorry, that's my comic book nerd shining through.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1327	Posted - 2013.05.04 04:05:00 - [14] - Quote RydogV wrote: First off I do not think that randoms are going to play too much FW because they know the chances are that they will going up against organized teams. The better your opponents gear, the higher the ISK payout for a loss. Losing will be MORE profitable in FW than Pub Matches. RydogV wrote: What I do know is that my side will have a majority of SC players on it because we will now have the ability to queue-sync multiple Squads into the same battle, on the same side. Odds are the other side is going to be populated with like-minded players. Again I may be naive, but I don't need a lot of incentive to fight a good fight and the folks I roll with generally don't either. Win or lose, we like a challenge. We certainly expect FW to be more of a challenge than Instant Battles. If we get a few scrubs on our team, so be it. 'Dems the breaks...and we'll do our best to improvise, adapt and overcome. I am not going to lose sight of the reason I am playing this game. It is to shoot people in the face and have fun doing it. I hope for the sake of the EVE players who care about FW on their side that something more meaningful is integrated into the game mode so they feel it is worth it. But the reality is if they are not fielding their own forces on the ground (shame on them) then that is an element of FW that will be out of their control. Then they will have to improvise, adapt and overcome that element of the gameplay on their end. Sherman said it best..."War is hell". Why would Dust players want to be "fielded" into FW corps when FW doesn't give any bonus over Pub Matches? Do you really think current FW corps even could field a decently large contingency of Dust players if they wanted to? I don't, because there's no reason for us to care about faction warfare in the first place. RydogV wrote: I guess we will. Don't deploy to the hotzone with what you are not willing to lose right? Most corps are not going to be so successful in PC that the revenue there will sustain operations on its own. At least not in the beginning. I mean, I doubt everyone will be running proto gear but we'll certainly be running better gear. And like any match now you establish a budget going in based on what you figure you will earn when its all over. For some that might mean a few better suits and then a switch to blueprints. I don't know what you want me to say. We are a smaller group. We are not going to have enough Districts to keep us occupied in the game all the time. Hell, we might get our butts handed to us and never get to hold any. So we are going the fight the fights we can, with whatever gear we can, and pay what we can afford. That might not work for other organizations but it works for us. Groups like yours are the ones that will be left out in the cold with this FW setup. You won't be able to make any more money than you can make now in Pub Matches. Your best bet for making cash will be to run all militia gear in FW and hope your opponents show up in Proto Gear. If you ask me, that's pretty lame. FW should be just as exciting and dynamic as PC, just with a different twist. Instead it's just as boring and broken as Instant Battles, just with a twist.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1327	Posted - 2013.05.04 05:22:00 - [15] - Quote Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: Baal Roo wrote: low genius wrote: Baal Roo wrote: So, FoxFour has verified HERE that the faction warfare rewards will be the same as Instant Battles. This means that all of the problems with Instant Battle will now carry over into Faction Warfare. With no clear bonus for WINNING, expect entire TEAMS of single corps/alliances derping around in militia fits and free LAVs with ZERO incentive to actually win matches. As a director of one of the largest corps in the game, this is what I have already instructed my comrades to expect to do/see in this game mode, and any other corps that don't have their heads up their rear ends will be doing the same. I've been defending the mechanics of "everyone gets participation points" for Instant Battles under the premise that instant battles were designed for new players and that FW would surely have higher rewards that heavily favored the winners of each match. This would give players an INCENTIVE above simple participation points to move to FW and actually fight. Unfortunately, with FW being announced as having the same payouts as instant battles, it turns out I was completely wrong. If this isn't fixed, this game is screwed, plain and simple. This leaves the vast majority of the gameplay in a situation where winning doesn't matter, and the most effective way to make money is to lose as cheaply as possible. Absolutely pathetic CCP. I was EXTREMELY excited for the update, now with this single announcement I could hardly care less. we don't care if you don't care. jagoff, or qq. whichever you want. I'm afraid that the majority of the player base will be taking your advice. That's the point of the post. If there's no incentive to win battles, why bother playing? You know what's wrong with games today? Your attitude. Yes, yours. Your WoW carrot on a stick mentality where numbers and K/D ratios and seeing them go up is your only reason for caring. Peope like you are the reason why Call of Duty and all the rest got gear progression systems and killstreaks People like you are the reason battlefield turned into a progression nightmare that takes WEEKS to get good stuff. You want to steer this game better? Take your bullshit and go back to Call of Duty. That will make this game better. wow, you couldn't have it more backwards.