The article on EVR contains a quote which I thought fairly well expressed the issues many have with the game mode approach to DUST and why this is inconsistent with the "we have to do things the EVE way" response many suggestions get on the forums.

It entertained me to see a comment like this apparently made without consideration for how it applied to DUST.

GÇ£6v6 instanced combat isnGÇÖt what Eve -with the whole single shard thing- is about,GÇ¥ said [CCP Unifex] Lander.

Discuss.

Can I simply dismiss your article out of hand now?

I play DUST because it is within EVE, supported by it, crafted in the same style, the same lore, the same universe. Without the EvE connection its just another shooter, and I wouldn't give it a second look

The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve.

So why expect something radically different?

Agree , Plex is not like Aurum.

In EVE with Plex you buy game TiME , meaning another month to play or more but with AURUM in Dust you buy WIN.

You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters.

I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps.

You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters.

I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps.

Regarding passive SP, why do you feel that way?

Here we go... another thread telling CCP how to run their business.

I think they are more interested in our ideas for game adjustments than our business advice.

I play DUST because it is within EVE, supported by it, crafted in the same style, the same lore, the same universe. Without the EvE connection its just another shooter, and I wouldn't give it a second look

Are you smoking crack? You must be smoking crack.

It doesnt have to appeal to eve players. Its supposed to appeal to those who want to play a MMOFPS, and this FPS just so happens to be doing something no other game has ever done in the history of games. And your first paragraph makes no sense when said aloud...

This game is based off of EVE. It will have EVE aspects. And one day, DUST and EvE will probably merge into one game (ie the 3rd element of the keynote diagram). DUST will only gain more aspects that EvE already has, and some of its own. It will become more in depth and harder for noobs to understand as it gets older. Just like EvE.

And ya, passive SP is actually a huge part of this game and if it didnt exist it would be detrimental to new players or players who are not the best at infantry gun game. This allows them to get pissed off and rage quit for a few days/weeks/months then come back and have a crap ton of SP to spend which will hopefully ease their burden. Or idk, people who dont want to grind for 2-3 days straight.

Im getting the impression you dont like the SP system. If they took the away the SP system, that would in fact make it a generic FPS.

Yeah we pay to win. There I said it. Does it change anything or fell different? Nope. OK then move on.

You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters.

I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps.

Regarding passive SP, why do you feel that way?

The steadfast addiction to trying to make Dust like EVE in every facet by the failed EVE carebears is strikingly alarming in this forum. You are destroying your own game. Please stop.

Problem is that the same can be said about people wanting it to be exactly like MAG or COD/BF

You only fuel an illusion while you cut the tree branch you sit on.

Who you gona shoot when the game will be EMPTY?

Who is gona refund the hundreds or more of $$$ you spent to win dust in yo wallet?

Because in the end you will feel used and cheated and poor.

CCP is the main factor of Dust514 demise , people like you are the second factor to D514 demise.

Right now you dont see it but you will.

Same here , too bad i wont stay for long , P2W model is repulsing.

This character and the others and Dust514 will most likely be deleted after 6 May.

Aurum will still rule over ISK so there is no hope to have a chance in this game without $$$.

I play DUST because it is within EVE, supported by it, crafted in the same style, the same lore, the same universe. Without the EvE connection its just another shooter, and I wouldn't give it a second look

It's not pay to win and never has been. You can be competitive with anyone out there with practice and the proper allocation of SP.

The article on EVR contains a quote which I thought fairly well expressed the issues many have with the game mode approach to DUST and why this is inconsistent with the "we have to do things the EVE way" response many suggestions get on the forums.

It entertained me to see a comment like this apparently made without consideration for how it applied to DUST.

GÇ£6v6 instanced combat isnGÇÖt what Eve -with the whole single shard thing- is about,GÇ¥ said [CCP Unifex] Lander.

Discuss.

In a firefight with two people of equal skill, the one with the more expensive equipment will always win.

How is that not pay to win?

It's pure numbers. If your weapon does more damage and you have higher armor. It doesn't matter if the opponent is evenly matched. You'll always win because your stuff IS better.

You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters.

I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps.

Focusing on EVE is a little off-base. It's really that EVE and DUST are both windows into New Eden. The devs and some of the EVE vets have come to this realization over time - that the thing that really counts here is the universe our clones live in.

And to be honest, when Forbes, Businessweek, The Economist, the Guardian or The New York times write articles about us, they really couldn't give a **** about EVE/DUST game mechanics. It's New Eden and the stories that come out of it that catch the attention of the world. Stories generated by people who absolutely love that universe and it's dynamics - EVE players.

I will tell you this. Put all the shooters ever made together and the number of amazing human stories that have come out of them is exactly sweet f*** all. After trillions of player hours invested.

In the end DUST must serve New Eden, and multiply the scope and the drama of the human stories that emerge from our virtual universe. Otherwise, in my eyes, Dust is useless.

The point isn't that the connection to EVE is bad, it's that the connection to EVE, to a cold and merciless universe of sandbox gameplay, is insufficient.

EDIT: And at the same time that the connection to EVE mechanics is being stressed in places where it doesn't work.

DUST isn't EVE.

EVE isn't DUST.

But New Eden is still New Eden.

---

Certain game mechanics and rules need to adapt to one game or the other, and some systems need to be reworked or scrapped when changing games. Purely running passive SP couldn't work for a first-person shooter, particularly on console, because even those of us who still have PC gamer sensibilities have grown accustomed to performance-based rewards in FPS games, and it would at the very least feel weird without - and for many potential players, would throw them off their game.

There are systems in EVE for managing lag that can't possibly work in DUST. TIme dilation is great in a slow-paced tactical point-and-click MMO, but for FPS gameplay, that would be a deal-breaker. They're not (yet) handling latency as well as they need to in DUST, but there needs to be a completely different system for managing it.

---

As for EVR, it's a neat experiment, and while I think the VR aspect would be too much of a gimmick to really take off as a part of New Eden, it would be awesome to convert the code to work without VR, and make a cross-platform tie-in where you're a fighter pilot in New Eden, able to fly space fighters that interact directly with EVE Online, atmospheric fighters which interact directly with DUST, and hybrids that can bridge the gap between the two games.

They mentioned the game was played using the XBox 360 controller, which has an identical number of functions to the PS3 controller with only very small differences in layout. It should be possible to mod the game to include a no-VR option, put it on PS3 and PC, and make it work.

Console gamers have a MASSIVE hole in our libraries where arcade space sims should be. Even current-gen PC gamers are short on releases to fill that particular niche. A game that ties in with an already-established universe, and brings PC and console gamers together in a place that both sides are now familiar with, could be a great way to open up that market.

---

And regardless of whether you're on the ground, in the sky, or out in the void between worlds, we will all still be in New Eden. There will be delicious cloned tears, "adapt or die" shall always be the law, and there will always be people who use something they can't afford to lose.

I play DUST because it is within EVE, supported by it, crafted in the same style, the same lore, the same universe. Without the EvE connection its just another shooter, and I wouldn't give it a second look

Problem is that the same can be said about people wanting it to be exactly like MAG or COD/BF

This thread doesn't make any sense.

Is anyone posting comments related to the comments that came before them or are y'all just facemashing your keyboards?

The OP was a criticism of balanced, instanced combat which is what DUST is favouring at present, even though "6v6 instanced combat isnGÇÖt what Eve -with the whole single shard thing- is about" according to CCP Unifex.

All of the stuff about passive SP, etc, is off topic.

Same here , too bad i wont stay for long , P2W model is repulsing.

This character and the others and Dust514 will most likely be deleted after 6 May.

Aurum will still rule over ISK so there is no hope to have a chance in this game without $$$.

Focusing on EVE is a little off-base. It's really that EVE and DUST are both windows into New Eden. The devs and some of the EVE vets have come to this realization over time - that the thing that really counts here is the universe our clones live in.

And to be honest, when Forbes, Businessweek, The Economist, the Guardian or The New York times write articles about us, they really couldn't give a **** about EVE/DUST game mechanics. It's New Eden and the stories that come out of it that catch the attention of the world. Stories generated by people who absolutely love that universe and it's dynamics - EVE players.

I will tell you this. Put all the shooters ever made together and the number of amazing human stories that have come out of them is exactly sweet f*** all. After trillions of player hours invested.

In the end DUST must serve New Eden, and multiply the scope and the drama of the human stories that emerge from our virtual universe. Otherwise, in my eyes, Dust is useless.

After all, we all (at least at one point) believed in Dust's concept and want it to succeed. So, if players suggest something, don't be so quick to shoot it down because it may actually improve the game.

The biggest stress seems to be that some day all of our gear will be bought from and traded around the eve universe. So with the new changes to mining and building in nul sec prices will be set by which side is winning and how much gear is being lost.

Wars will make prices skyrocket, but since dust and eve work on a region to region gameplay, the prices will only be high in the region with heavy pricing.

Now how they will handle dust mercs moving around i have no idea, but the best part is how we'll mine drones for ore *like eve used to be* and ship them through a space elevator, where eve players give us money for it.
AWESOME

This is why dust is different, without eve dust is just some shooter, no matter how good it gets. I think BF3/4 are some of the best game ever made for this generation. But I don't play them , at all. Never paid a penny for them. Briginpal showed me what was possible with his trolly youtube vids of BF3.

Strapping C4 to your fighter jet, and then jumping out at the last minute so your fighter crashes into a Bomber while you paracute away is epic. Especially when you're watching the whole thing, press the c4 button at 20,000 feet and watch your jet you were just piloting blow up taking the bomber down with it.

Dust is being made by a ton of DICE devs, and the BF3 sandbox fps gameplay is there. But Even though I think BF3 finally delievers on sandbox fps combat, every battle is random, with no connection to each other. It's all instances. You don't get to land on your territory and explore it while there is no combat going on. There is no real loss per death. There is no player market or deep skill tree.

Dust has the potential to really make a huge mark on gaming. We just have to wait 1-2 years for their vision to be completed.

sry for typos, I'm really sick in bed : (