DUST Search - DUST is not EVE.

Don Von Hulio wrote:

Ydubbs81 RND wrote:

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve.

So why expect something radically different?

You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters.

I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps.

Are you smoking crack? You must be smoking crack.

It doesnt have to appeal to eve players. Its supposed to appeal to those who want to play a MMOFPS, and this FPS just so happens to be doing something no other game has ever done in the history of games. And your first paragraph makes no sense when said aloud...

This game is based off of EVE. It will have EVE aspects. And one day, DUST and EvE will probably merge into one game (ie the 3rd element of the keynote diagram). DUST will only gain more aspects that EvE already has, and some of its own. It will become more in depth and harder for noobs to understand as it gets older. Just like EvE.

And ya, passive SP is actually a huge part of this game and if it didnt exist it would be detrimental to new players or players who are not the best at infantry gun game. This allows them to get pissed off and rage quit for a few days/weeks/months then come back and have a crap ton of SP to spend which will hopefully ease their burden. Or idk, people who dont want to grind for 2-3 days straight.

Im getting the impression you dont like the SP system. If they took the away the SP system, that would in fact make it a generic FPS.

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Mithridates VI IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 1020	Posted - 2013.04.28 08:57:00 - [1] - Quote The article on EVR contains a quote which I thought fairly well expressed the issues many have with the game mode approach to DUST and why this is inconsistent with the "we have to do things the EVE way" response many suggestions get on the forums. It entertained me to see a comment like this apparently made without consideration for how it applied to DUST. GÇ£6v6 instanced combat isnGÇÖt what Eve -with the whole single shard thing- is about,GÇ¥ said [CCP Unifex] Lander. Discuss.
BlG MAMA Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:34:00 - [2] - Quote Agree , Plex is not like Aurum. In EVE with Plex you buy game TiME , meaning another month to play or more but with AURUM in Dust you buy WIN.
Don Von Hulio Not Guilty EoN. 159	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:48:00 - [3] - Quote Idk, after watching the keynote, its just going to become more and more EvE centric.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 201	Posted - 2013.04.28 10:21:00 - [4] - Quote The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve. So why expect something radically different?
Smooth Head Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.04.28 10:22:00 - [5] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: The article on EVR contains a quote which I thought fairly well expressed the issues many have with the game mode approach to DUST and why this is inconsistent with the "we have to do things the EVE way" response many suggestions get on the forums. It entertained me to see a comment like this apparently made without consideration for how it applied to DUST. GÇ£6v6 instanced combat isnGÇÖt what Eve -with the whole single shard thing- is about,GÇ¥ said [CCP Unifex] Lander. Discuss. Can I simply dismiss your article out of hand now?
Mithridates VI IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 1021	Posted - 2013.04.28 10:42:00 - [6] - Quote Smooth Head wrote: Can I simply dismiss your article out of hand now? Which article?
Primarch2 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 71	Posted - 2013.04.28 11:04:00 - [7] - Quote I play DUST because it is within EVE, supported by it, crafted in the same style, the same lore, the same universe. Without the EvE connection its just another shooter, and I wouldn't give it a second look
Mithridates VI IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 1023	Posted - 2013.04.28 11:13:00 - [8] - Quote Primarch2 wrote: I play DUST because it is within EVE, supported by it, crafted in the same style, the same lore, the same universe. Without the EvE connection its just another shooter, and I wouldn't give it a second look The point isn't that the connection to EVE is bad, it's that the connection to EVE, to a cold and merciless universe of sandbox gameplay, is insufficient.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1094	Posted - 2013.04.28 11:28:00 - [9] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve. So why expect something radically different? You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters. I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 133	Posted - 2013.04.28 11:36:00 - [10] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: Agree , Plex is not like Aurum. In EVE with Plex you buy game TiME , meaning another month to play or more but with AURUM in Dust you buy WIN. Yeah we pay to win. There I said it. Does it change anything or fell different? Nope. OK then move on.

Aeon Amadi WarRavens 1197	Posted - 2013.04.28 11:37:00 - [11] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve. So why expect something radically different? You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters. I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps. Regarding passive SP, why do you feel that way?
Don Von Hulio Not Guilty EoN. 160	Posted - 2013.04.28 11:48:00 - [12] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve. So why expect something radically different? You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters. I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps. Are you smoking crack? You must be smoking crack. It doesnt have to appeal to eve players. Its supposed to appeal to those who want to play a MMOFPS, and this FPS just so happens to be doing something no other game has ever done in the history of games. And your first paragraph makes no sense when said aloud... This game is based off of EVE. It will have EVE aspects. And one day, DUST and EvE will probably merge into one game (ie the 3rd element of the keynote diagram). DUST will only gain more aspects that EvE already has, and some of its own. It will become more in depth and harder for noobs to understand as it gets older. Just like EvE. And ya, passive SP is actually a huge part of this game and if it didnt exist it would be detrimental to new players or players who are not the best at infantry gun game. This allows them to get pissed off and rage quit for a few days/weeks/months then come back and have a crap ton of SP to spend which will hopefully ease their burden. Or idk, people who dont want to grind for 2-3 days straight. Im getting the impression you dont like the SP system. If they took the away the SP system, that would in fact make it a generic FPS.
Crash Monster Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 61	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:02:00 - [13] - Quote Here we go... another thread telling CCP how to run their business. I think they are more interested in our ideas for game adjustments than our business advice.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1094	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:03:00 - [14] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve. So why expect something radically different? You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters. I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps. Regarding passive SP, why do you feel that way? Fps players are used to leveling up and unlocking items, gear, weapons, etc. It gives a certain reward or feeling of accomplishment. ISK alone wouldnt cut it....maybe if they used passive sp accrual from the very beginning, it may have worked because ignorance is bliss. But i dont see how it would have....we have problems with the implementation of a skill cap but it is what it is.
Mithridates VI IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 1025	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:06:00 - [15] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Here we go... another thread telling CCP how to run their business. I think they are more interested in our ideas for game adjustments than our business advice. ...what business advice?
BlG MAMA Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:06:00 - [16] - Quote Primarch2 wrote: I play DUST because it is within EVE, supported by it, crafted in the same style, the same lore, the same universe. Without the EvE connection its just another shooter, and I wouldn't give it a second look Same here , too bad i wont stay for long , P2W model is repulsing. This character and the others and Dust514 will most likely be deleted after 6 May. Aurum will still rule over ISK so there is no hope to have a chance in this game without $$$.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 463	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:07:00 - [17] - Quote Every rpg I can think of gives sp based on kills, story progress, or support actions. FPS copied this when adding experience to shooters. EvE did it different, eve is mmo but not really a rpg. Dust could go the way other shooters did, the way eve did, or the current mix. Way sp is gained is not affected by genre, rpg and fps both have tradition of active xp for killing things. Active sp encourages more active playing and gives bonus to people that put in the time. Passive sp lets people do other things easier, but their gun game still won't be as good as somebody with the hours in, even with same sp. Passive sp would work, it would just be different. I don't think it is needed for the Eve link. The game has enough things for new players to get used to as is. So, I see no reason to change it for the sake of matching EvE. It would make a good aur option though, X aur to convert active cap for week to more passive. People that don't have time to hit cap every week may pay to convert it to more passive, or people going on a bussness trip or vactaion and won't log in for a time may pay for it. New game comes out but they know they'll be back in month, add the aur to cost of other game to keep sp going. I would probably do this so I had time to play the Borderlands expansions I bought, CCP would probably make more money off me playing the Borderlands expansion then gearbox would, lol.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1094	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:09:00 - [18] - Quote Don Von Hulio wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve. So why expect something radically different? You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters. I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps. Are you smoking crack? You must be smoking crack. It doesnt have to appeal to eve players. Its supposed to appeal to those who want to play a MMOFPS, and this FPS just so happens to be doing something no other game has ever done in the history of games. And your first paragraph makes no sense when said aloud... This game is based off of EVE. It will have EVE aspects. And one day, DUST and EvE will probably merge into one game (ie the 3rd element of the keynote diagram). DUST will only gain more aspects that EvE already has, and some of its own. It will become more in depth and harder for noobs to understand as it gets older. Just like EvE. And ya, passive SP is actually a huge part of this game and if it didnt exist it would be detrimental to new players or players who are not the best at infantry gun game. This allows them to get pissed off and rage quit for a few days/weeks/months then come back and have a crap ton of SP to spend which will hopefully ease their burden. Or idk, people who dont want to grind for 2-3 days straight. Im getting the impression you dont like the SP system. If they took the away the SP system, that would in fact make it a generic FPS. What are you talking about? I never said that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players. I never said that i dont like the current sp system and I never said that we should do away with the passive skill point system. The only one high off anything seems to be you because your entire response makes no sense if you are responding to me.
BlG MAMA Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:22:00 - [19] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: Agree , Plex is not like Aurum. In EVE with Plex you buy game TiME , meaning another month to play or more but with AURUM in Dust you buy WIN. Yeah we pay to win. There I said it. Does it change anything or fell different? Nope. OK then move on. You only fuel an illusion while you cut the tree branch you sit on. Who you gona shoot when the game will be EMPTY? Who is gona refund the hundreds or more of $$$ you spent to win dust in yo wallet? Because in the end you will feel used and cheated and poor. CCP is the main factor of Dust514 demise , people like you are the second factor to D514 demise. Right now you dont see it but you will.
Don Von Hulio Not Guilty EoN. 161	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:24:00 - [20] - Quote Thats what you get for quoting an IMP... lol I must have selective reading when im sleep deprived. But im gonna leave it like it is so people know how i feel. But if you said what i thought you said as a statement and not an argument to another person, that is what i would respond with. But the SP part, ya. This SP system is needed. If they took it out they would have to rework everything... which i doubt they would do.

Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 124	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:27:00 - [21] - Quote New Eden
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 298	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:35:00 - [22] - Quote EVR is a gimmick, no one will really drop money to play it unless they want to waste it, it will go the way of 3D gaming lolpassive - Only reason ppl dont like passive and the cap is because they want to max everything out within a week but it aint to work that way DUST is born from EVE so of course ther will be similaritys to EVE such as the skill tree and market place and much more, it has enough to appeal to EVE players and normal players, some are EVE player who dont really like EVE because its slow but like DUST because its a bit faster and vice versa
Crash Monster Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2013.04.28 12:40:00 - [23] - Quote I imagine DUST will bring a lot of non-carebear types into EVE. I can see carebears coming here, getting into the reality of essentially being immortal, and returning to EVE a lot more relaxed about taking risks. If the economies tie together then even more so. Maybe DUST isn't EVE -- but CCP is certainly going to bring their view of gaming from EVE into DUST.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2633	Posted - 2013.04.28 13:31:00 - [24] - Quote DUST isn't EVE. EVE isn't DUST. But New Eden is still New Eden. Certain game mechanics and rules need to adapt to one game or the other, and some systems need to be reworked or scrapped when changing games. Purely running passive SP couldn't work for a first-person shooter, particularly on console, because even those of us who still have PC gamer sensibilities have grown accustomed to performance-based rewards in FPS games, and it would at the very least feel weird without - and for many potential players, would throw them off their game. There are systems in EVE for managing lag that can't possibly work in DUST. TIme dilation is great in a slow-paced tactical point-and-click MMO, but for FPS gameplay, that would be a deal-breaker. They're not (yet) handling latency as well as they need to in DUST, but there needs to be a completely different system for managing it. As for EVR, it's a neat experiment, and while I think the VR aspect would be too much of a gimmick to really take off as a part of New Eden, it would be awesome to convert the code to work without VR, and make a cross-platform tie-in where you're a fighter pilot in New Eden, able to fly space fighters that interact directly with EVE Online, atmospheric fighters which interact directly with DUST, and hybrids that can bridge the gap between the two games. They mentioned the game was played using the XBox 360 controller, which has an identical number of functions to the PS3 controller with only very small differences in layout. It should be possible to mod the game to include a no-VR option, put it on PS3 and PC, and make it work. Console gamers have a MASSIVE hole in our libraries where arcade space sims should be. Even current-gen PC gamers are short on releases to fill that particular niche. A game that ties in with an already-established universe, and brings PC and console gamers together in a place that both sides are now familiar with, could be a great way to open up that market. And regardless of whether you're on the ground, in the sky, or out in the void between worlds, we will all still be in New Eden. There will be delicious cloned tears, "adapt or die" shall always be the law, and there will always be people who use something they can't afford to lose.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 203	Posted - 2013.04.28 13:33:00 - [25] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve. So why expect something radically different? You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters. I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps. Prove it.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 129	Posted - 2013.04.28 13:34:00 - [26] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The game was born from Eve, and is attached to Eve. It is supposed to appeal to people who, at the very least, have some kind of interest in Eve. So why expect something radically different? You are saying that this game is supposed to appeal to eve players? That is auto fail right there. This game is supposed to appeal to those who wish for more than meaningless and conventional shooters. I understand that this game is connected to eve and that there should be similarities but dust is an fps, unlike eve.....so the approach to the game has to be different. For example, passive skill point accrual works well in eve but would not work for the success of dust as an fps. Regarding passive SP, why do you feel that way? edit-deleted misread
Chances Ghost Inf4m0us 45	Posted - 2013.04.28 13:36:00 - [27] - Quote you guys realise that the EVR is a pet project by the devs and not an actual thing thats going to be released right?
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 129	Posted - 2013.04.28 13:41:00 - [28] - Quote For all the EVE players saying dust is supposed to appeal to eve player primarily, why wasn't it put on PC? Cause only EVE players would play it. The goal was to gain a new audience to join the New Eden Universe and experience the New Eden Universe through a different lens. That doesnt mean that every aspect of the game has to follow the mantra of the New Eden Universe. Just the core elements do on how the games interact and interconnect. Beyond that they can be 2 radically different games doesn't matter. The steadfast addiction to trying to make Dust like EVE in every facet by the failed EVE carebears is strikingly alarming in this forum. You are destroying your own game. Please stop. Kbai.
DeeJay One BetaMax. CRONOS. 12	Posted - 2013.04.28 13:45:00 - [29] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: The steadfast addiction to trying to make Dust like EVE in every facet by the failed EVE carebears is strikingly alarming in this forum. You are destroying your own game. Please stop. Problem is that the same can be said about people wanting it to be exactly like MAG or COD/BF
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 129	Posted - 2013.04.28 14:06:00 - [30] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: The steadfast addiction to trying to make Dust like EVE in every facet by the failed EVE carebears is strikingly alarming in this forum. You are destroying your own game. Please stop. Problem is that the same can be said about people wanting it to be exactly like MAG or COD/BF Don't want the game to be MAG of COD/BF. I enjoy the interconnectedness of EVE and the persistance aspect. But when every move in regards to core gameplay issue that primarily deal with the FPS experience of the game is blocked by EVE hardcore in an effort to create a EVE FPS it destroys any chance this game has of being great to the playerbase that will most vitalize the game and the universe. Have i blocked or attempted to block 2* market direct player transfer EVE capsuleer support The need for eve in manufacturing The Risk/reward mechanic of gear usage in pubs based on ISK(though it will eventually fail unless a gear restriction is created for pubs cause the uber wealthy will pubstomp as all veteran of FPS and MMO tend to do) Alliance standings Bounty systems The SP progression(rate of progression is irrelevant and personally should be uninhibited by capping if there are going to be gaps lets their be gaps its an MMO right?) Have i screwed with FW or PC in its ability to connect with EVE, in fact i have pushed for more connections. That bunker system they used during the dust tourney is exactly a mechanic this game needs to truly push the Dust-EVE link But when you try to make the game too much sandbox it breaksdown because in the end this is a lobby shooter. And for new players its a lobby shooter with only 2 game modes. Variants do not work the same as different and distinct game modes. There needs to be a Dust equivalent of Capture the flag Demolition Both of which could have translated into FW and PC as different types of battle scenarios. Not every game should be about destroying an MCC or establishing control of a district. First you need to weaken it by having its resources or its supply lines cut. This is how you factor in a demolition type game mode, a capture the flag(not a literal flag) is a the basis for raiding and pillaging and how you create a very desired EVE element in a FPS manner. These are the things the EVE players need to understand or you doom your own game. The Market, Space elevator, eve side manufacturing, supply/demand economy, risk reward elements have to be interwoven in time but you have to create the gameplay first and interweave those things around it not the other way around. Think about eves progression and you know im right, well sorta gameplay in eve was never that amazing. But for console and FPS gamers of which this game is the intended market (i again say if it wasn't they would have put this on PC as a EVE expansion and made the FPS just a minigame kinda like that dogfighting simulator) you need to have the gameplay rock solid first and thats is the foundation if it is strong enough then all those EVE elements will flourish and the connection will be spectacular. What the final presentations of FF showed is what i want to see too but you will never get it there if you continually put the cart before the horse.



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