Buying ISK would be the equivalent of buying power.

No go.

Also: The UVT is in place because the voice chat is handled by a third party. The UVT profits go to maintaining it.

Yeah isk booster will be in the pay to win category so sorry but no

No. If you want ISK from payment, you just need to wait until the secondary player-controlled market opens up and allow you to sell UVTs to other players for ISK. Please keep in mind that ISK earned this way will vary according to the strict New Eden laws of Supply & Demand.

What does any of that have to do with this discussion? The point of this discussion is nobody really wants UVTs and they can very easily be replaced with an ISK booster that would make CCP far more money than UVTs ever will.

I haven't bought a UVT in months, because it's truly pointless.

ISK booster would make much more sense since there are a multitude of people who struggle with ISK.

Unfortunately, UVT's aren't really that limiting. Yes, you can't chat within corp or local, but tbh, who wants to chat in local?

Squad chat is unaffected, and I *think* team chat is unaffected either. UVT's won't be worth that much.

As for buying an isk booster with AUR... It won't be pay to win, as sure, you can keep sending out high-tier weapons out far more often than anyone else, but it doesn't improve how well you do with them. But I still disagree with it. As previously stated, there has never been a service in New Eden where you can directly buy isk with real money AS SUGGESTED BY THE OP. It's always been in the form of real money > item > isk. It helps keep the economy stable, and helps to keep the market entirely player-driven. There's no new source of isk, so there's no ridiculous inflation.

My comment has everything to do with this discussion. Let me point it out.

1. The New Eden economy has never seen any cash-bought item that can boost a player's income like you recommended.

2. Player income, as it stands, is based on the dynamic and somewhat chaotic market forces of the economy. Dumb players lose ISK while smart players gain ISK. It's a no brainer.

3. UVTs are expected to become a very hot commodity in New Eden which will enable players who don't have cash to get a UVT for ISK by simply buying one from a player who already has one and willing to sell it after purchasing it with AUR. It's just like how PLEX works in Eve Online.

4. There are already enough players that I know of who have stockpiled a large sum of UVTs for the reason mentioned in #3.

Why would anyone need to boost ISK gains? Just don't run stuff you can't afford to lose.

Ugh, once again. Not the point of this discussion. The point is finding a way to get rid of UVTs that no one likes. Besides, youre telling me that a ISK booster would be useless? As in no one would ever buy it?

No, on the contrary, everyone would buy it. It's not useless, it's too good.

And why would you want to get rid of UVTs? Just because you don't have a use for them doesn't mean others don't.

The world has never seen an MMO like EVE tied to a FPS like Dust either, so I guess Dust shouldnt exist through your logic, correct?

Excuse me, but this is not what my logic meant. Don't twist it.

Dumb players would still lose ISK, and smart players would still gain ISK if a ISK booster is implemented.

This is true.

UVTs will never be as popular as boosters, no matter what you or your friends want to believe. They will sell for (as an example, not real numbers) something like 1 to 10 million ISK for 1 day to 30 day whereas boosters will sell for 50 to 500 million for 1 day to 30 day.

I never said nor tried to imply that UVTs are going to be better. I'm just pointing out the fact that UVTs will be a hot commodities. SP boosters are going to be a hot commodity as well. However, neither of us can know for certain how much players will pay for each so we will have to wait until then to see how the market goes.

Anymore illogical arguments you want to bring to the table? Cause it sounds mostly like you dont like this idea because youre planning on making ISK off of UVTs in the future. The far distant future that is probably a year or more from now of the player run market existing.

Look, I know we have our differences, but you and I can come to an agreement that the economy is too delicate for something like ISK boosters to exist and we don't know what damaging repercussions this can bring to the market. I can already see ISK inflation as a result of ISK boosters which can undermine the value of ISK over time once the market hits. Besides, CCP can already control the ISK flow and can adjust the ISK faucet accordingly depending on how we play and provide our feedback. If CCP sees we are not earning enough ISK for the effort we put in, they will increase the rewards. Besides, who is to say that skill books won't get introduced to help us boost our PVE mission income?

I believe I outlined this in the OP. Being able to socialize with other people in an MMO should not be inhibited and thats exactly what a UVT does. We all have a use for what the UVT allows us to do, the point is we should be able to do it without paying for it.

There are two separate issues at play here.

Free voice communication I am totally for.

Replacing it with ISK booster is yet to be proven as worthwhile on its own merits, isolated from the UVT discussion.

No, we cannot come to an agreemant about that. What economy, market, and ISK inflation are you talking about!? We have none of these things. I believe that when we get the market we will also get some form of ISK transfer between EVE and Dust that will be far worse for inflation than an ISK booster that you still have to earn your ISK in matches to use while likely losing assets. Have you also already forgotten about that thing called PC thats coming out soon that will fill every big alliance/corps pockets with enough ISK to the point where they will likely never need ISK again?

UVT is simply a burden on the EVE and Dust link that will never be fully successfully implimented as long as UVT exists.

Dust may not have those things market wise, but Eve Online does and it is a beast of an economy that took 10 years to perfect. At the moment, the Dust and Eve economies are isolated. But once the two economies start to merge and ISK finally flows between the two, CCP has already confirmed that ISK transfers between a Dust and Eve account will see heavy taxes imposed. Therefore, it will be pointless to try to flood a Dust player with 100 million ISK if a good chunk of that ISK simply gets destroyed by the tax system along the way.

No, I have not forgotten about PC. In fact, PC is the very reason I am against your idea of an ISK booster because what's the point of having such a booster if your income will be increased via other sources anyways in the near future?



By the way, don't assume that corps will get super rich like that. There will be way to keep the ISK flow under control. CCP Diagoras will make sure of that.

The main discussion here is getting rid of UVT and replacing it with something that has an equal or greater ability to earn revenue for CCP to pay for the 3rd party voice services. I dont know what most of you people dont get about that. If you have better suggestions then make them, but that is the main point of this discussion. I simply feel an ISK booster meets that goal and helps new players.

@ Maken Tosch

Your post will continue to be irrelevant until the following criteria is met.

1.) When you actually become good at the game

2.) Find and play a real role. Not one you just tried to make up

3.) Get off your knees, and come to realization that not everything CCP creates is coated in gold

Anyways, paying for voice chat is kinda silly. Furthermore, UvT doesn't even provide that much of an extended service. Hardly worth 50cents IMO

Anyways, paying for voice chat is kinda silly. Furthermore, UvT doesn't even provide that much of an extended service. Hardly worth 50cents IMO

No. If you want ISK from payment, you just need to wait until the secondary player-controlled market opens up and allow you to sell UVTs to other players for ISK. Please keep in mind that ISK earned this way will vary according to the strict New Eden laws of Supply & Demand.

I get what you mean and I have explained in as much detail as I could as to why we have UVTs and why replacing it with an ISK booster may not be a good idea. Unfortunately, your responses to my response are coming across as a bit... um... how do I say this nicely? Less friendly? I tried to be friendly with you but it seems you're the one who just doesn't want to accept anything but your way only. I'm trying to point out flaws here to help you understand.

Of course, none of my ideas or suggestions are perfect, but at least I accept that and I'm willing to accept constructive criticism. I'm giving you constructive criticism which is good. Be glad I'm not replying to you as a troll.

While UVTs may not be liked by everyone, I'm still ok with them. If CCP can find some other way to pay for the costs, then I'm for it. However, ISK boosters doesn't seem to be a good alternative. If I am to compromise with Recon, I would probably agree with removing UVTs but have them replaced with items that doesn't run the risk of potentially harming an economy. Either that, or increase the price of another already-existing AUR item.

iphone and Android app solves all issues make talking free.

My comment has everything to do with this discussion. Let me point it out.

1. The New Eden economy has never seen any cash-bought item that can boost a player's income like you recommended.

2. Player income, as it stands, is based on the dynamic and somewhat chaotic market forces of the economy. Dumb players lose ISK while smart players gain ISK. It's a no brainer.

3. UVTs are expected to become a very hot commodity in New Eden which will enable players who don't have cash to get a UVT for ISK by simply buying one from a player who already has one and willing to sell it after purchasing it with AUR. It's just like how PLEX works in Eve Online.

4. There are already enough players that I know of who have stockpiled a large sum of UVTs for the reason mentioned in #3.

So basically because you and your buddies bought up a bunch of these items in hopes of making ISK off of them someday far off when player market opens up you are trying to dismiss a discussion that offers a better and more meaningful solution to CCP making money off the game while giving us a core feature that is basically the cornerstone of social gaming on console(VOX) if this was PC yea then 3rd party apps and keyboard become viable.

Given how huge that demand can be individuals can corner a market on something that really shouldnt be cornered on which is large scale in game communication.


Sounds pretty selfish to me. At least the OP wasn't a whiny why do i have to pay for voice types and offered a creative way to ensure we have free voice but still make money for CCP to pay the bills and possible even more so.

@Recon

Not everyone hates UVTs. I'm ok with them and so are a number of players I have encountered both in-game and on the forums. We just see them as a necessary thing for CCP to be able to cover the cost of the voice service. Eve Online players may be able to use free voice comms, but that's because it's part of their subscription payments.

No you are just talking in circles. The OP isn't asking for free voice chat. He's asking for a different way for CCP to monetize the game and use that money to fund the voice service.

ITs like saying we as a company will take money for many things but only this money from this one source will pay for this service. Thats silly. You pool the resources and pay the bills with everything you take in.

Point is if providing free voice without UVT requirement means X revenue loss, the OP's solution needs to at least match that revenue loss to offset it and frankly as everyone here insists people would all pay for this item than it would exceed that revenue loss which could be used to further develop the game or go into CCP's pocket.

Are you against providing a very essential form of communication in a FPS especially a console FPS and don't you want CCP to make money?

I can see your point there about the stockpiling part. It probably is pretty selfish. But then again, selfishness is all part of the game. But you are correct that players shouldn't be able to corner a market on communications. Perhaps I shouldn't have used that example of stockpiling in the first place.

Anyways, any critique on my alternative?

Nah, I'm not against providing this essential form of communication. Like I said, if CCP can figure out a way to pay for the service without UVTs, then we can all be happy.

The OP did suggest ISK boosters as an alternative, but I just think it will have a negative impact in the future in terms of economics. My alternative is more cosmetic which doesn't impact the economy and it's something a lot of people can go with. Of course, it doesn't have to be exactly as I described earlier with the Dust version of PLEX. I'm pretty sure there are better alternatives out there. I just can't think of a better one at the moment. It's late at night and I'm starting to get tired. The bed is starting to call.

IT's not bad. Would have to depnd on the cost of the plex and what you get out of it. Personally i think booster revenue is really the only real revenue CCP can hope to monetize any money off of. Im surprised that there isn't enough money being generated by their weekly promotions and Booster sales to offset the cost of free universal communications.

Well another thing with the boosters is you can always limit their use to PC payouts on the biomass clones which are paid directly to the mercs anyway. We already can tell that the individual merc payouts are going to still not be really enough to offset the cost or a protracted and bloody battle at its current ISK values. It wont be a huge loss but difficult to generate profits as a mercs regularly unless you get bonuses from the corp but that is at corp discretion.

The utility of the ISK booster in this arena offers a good middle ground as its not something you would see running 24/7 and as such wouldnt be a true source of inflation, moreoever since the increased payout is also tied to destroyed(lost) ISK in the form of clones it actually is just getting you a better value on your dollar as opposed to generating money out of thin air.

I don't know. Boosting ISK payouts in PC sounds like something that can be achieved with a simple surface infrastructure upgrade. Kind of like how Eve players in Null-Sec upgrade their I-Hub to bring in better ratting or mining sites.

Yea but again that money goes to the corp not direct to the mercs. This becomes an important distinction if and when mercs can begin to actually take contracts from other organizations, by increasing the payouts they can potentially earn it becomes less of burden on them and less reliant on district income or even Pub/FW income and potentially make a living just mercing in PC with the use of a paid booster however you can also expand this limit to FW as well where outcomes matter and you are likely to see higher level gear used therefore profit margins wont be excessive.

Keep in mind the booster doesn't have to be a 50% greater, even a modest 15-20% bump maybe something ppl would find worthwhile spending money on.

A plex isn't a bad idea either if its 19.99 then that means 1 person can cover 40 30day UVTs at its current cost levels. A 1:40 cost ratio isnt that bad.

A booster at say 7K AUR for 7 days would cover 7 peoples UVT coverage for 1 month. While your has a better ratio the question becomes is it sustainable? Are there enough people willing to purchase a monthly plex for this F2P, its not like EVE where the cost is worth that kind of price. The subscription would have to be pretty awesome and yet simultaneously not cross P2W.

You can already buy isk here. Use aurum gear, lose less isk = buy isk. Isk booster is no different, just an honest way of portraying it.

Also: The UVT is in place because the voice chat is handled by a third party. The UVT profits go to maintaining it.

That couldn't possibly be true.

I believe I outlined this in the OP. Being able to socialize with other people in an MMO should not be inhibited and thats exactly what a UVT does. We all have a use for what the UVT allows us to do, the point is we should be able to do it without paying for it.

It is true. Vivox hosts our DUST voice.

Hmm. I'm surprised I haven't received a response by now. We've already talked so much so quick.

I like the idea of vanity items paid for by aurum to replace the UVT third party costs. For example player/CCP designed dropsuits and vehicles. Individuals buy unique dropsuits that only they can use and corps buy suits etc only members of the corps can use. If you leave that corp then you instantly loose access to the corp suit/vehicle colour scheme. By vanity I mean that the only thing that changes is the colour and nothing else. You could have vanity items from militia to proto.

CCP can charge substantially more for these items than they do for UVTs and this would hopefully cover the costs of third party costs and avoids the risk of introducing an Isk booster.

My concerns would be how time consuming would it be to introduce these new colour schemes and what stress would it put on the servers tracking these unique suits during battle.

But it would be fun having my own unique suit and think of the fun you could have tracking and killing specific individuals because you know the colour scheme of their unique dropsuit/vehicle.

Yeah I said screw it and went to bed lol. The PLEX thing youre talking about sounds similar to the subscription theyre looking into for Dust, which I think is an awesome alternative to UVT. If you pay $5 subscription fee every month you dont need a UVT. This is similar to what Fallen Earth did at one time (no real clue if they still do, Im surprised they still even exist), if you wanted to use the mail system in game, which could be used to send items as well as messages, you had to pay a subscription instead of playing for free. Being able to talk without UVT could definately be a perk of the subscription, Im just wondering how much the fee will be every month.

To everyone who keeps talking about an ISK booster being the same as buying ISK, just stop. Thats not how it would be. For the example of the EVE mission runner making 20 mil an hour they would simply make 30 mil an hour with an ISK booster, not billions. It would essentially be no differant than ISK boosting skill books except that you have to spend AUR on it and it has a limit on how long it can be used.

^ Maken Tosch.

It will likely be months before player trading is allowed.

No, on the contrary, everyone would buy it. It's not useless, it's too good.

And why would you want to get rid of UVTs? Just because you don't have a use for them doesn't mean others don't.

ISK boosters are too good but passive and active SP boosters are perfectly fine?

Please explain how me being able to purchase 100 more GEK-38's with my extra ISK is more broken than being able to go full proto everything in less than half the time it takes someone not using boosters.

Because the ISK booster might have a detrimental effect on the whole economy. Active and passive boosters don't. Moving on.

@IRuby

I believe we have moved on past ISK boosters and looking into alternatives that can help CCP cover the cost of maintaining the comms service.

By "might have a detrimental effect on the whole economy" I assume you're talking about the nonexistent economy we currently have and will not have for years to come? Sorry but that's a crap excuse/reason not to implement ISK boosters. Even with the arrival of the player market, ISK from EVE will flow and outweigh any kinda of possible imbalance an ISK booster may have...

Months, pffff!

More like years, refer you to 25:16 mark of this video.

http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/394708149

But at the same time at the 43:50 mark of the same video we will be getting something for free now, I am calling it right now it is the UVT.

Yeah I called it already!

I claimed this thread dead before it was announced!