DUST Search - Replacing UVT with an ISK Booster

RECON BY FIRE wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Hmm. I'm surprised I haven't received a response by now. We've already talked so much so quick.

Yeah I said screw it and went to bed lol. The PLEX thing youre talking about sounds similar to the subscription theyre looking into for Dust, which I think is an awesome alternative to UVT. If you pay $5 subscription fee every month you dont need a UVT. This is similar to what Fallen Earth did at one time (no real clue if they still do, Im surprised they still even exist), if you wanted to use the mail system in game, which could be used to send items as well as messages, you had to pay a subscription instead of playing for free. Being able to talk without UVT could definately be a perk of the subscription, Im just wondering how much the fee will be every month.

To everyone who keeps talking about an ISK booster being the same as buying ISK, just stop. Thats not how it would be. For the example of the EVE mission runner making 20 mil an hour they would simply make 30 mil an hour with an ISK booster, not billions. It would essentially be no differant than ISK boosting skill books except that you have to spend AUR on it and it has a limit on how long it can be used.

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The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 123	Posted - 2013.04.24 06:20:00 - [61] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Why would anyone need to boost ISK gains? Just don't run stuff you can't afford to lose. Ugh, once again. Not the point of this discussion. The point is finding a way to get rid of UVTs that no one likes. Besides, youre telling me that a ISK booster would be useless? As in no one would ever buy it? No, on the contrary, everyone would buy it. It's not useless, it's too good. And why would you want to get rid of UVTs? Just because you don't have a use for them doesn't mean others don't. I believe I outlined this in the OP. Being able to socialize with other people in an MMO should not be inhibited and thats exactly what a UVT does. We all have a use for what the UVT allows us to do, the point is we should be able to do it without paying for it. Aur only uvt is prohibitive, if they were sold for ISK then there would be no problem. To send a message in eve we sometimes have to pay for it. Sell an ISK version and it will be fixed. I don't use CPU upgrades on anything but that doesn't mean they should be wiped.
DeeJay One BetaMax. CRONOS. 10	Posted - 2013.04.24 07:10:00 - [62] - Quote My 0.02 ISK: No to ISK boosters. And no, PLEX is a really, really bad comparison. If you buy a PLEX and sell it on the market, the ISK for that comes from somewhere, usually another player. CCP doesn't give you any ISK for that, a player who earned them does. Even the EVE NPC corps don't get ISK for free, but by taxing players and selling BPO's (although the latter ones appear from thin air probably, but it still isn't ISK which flows from the players). If UVT's are needed is a whole different beast, but let us wait until Fanfest with that discussion - CCP Praetorian said something yesterday about some free stuff for us ;) (source http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/394708149)
2100 Angels The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 57	Posted - 2013.04.24 07:12:00 - [63] - Quote The solution to this has already been mentioned in this thread: The player market will resolve any problems with items restricted to AUR purchase. When these items are allowed to be sold, players will buy them as a means to convert AUR to ISK and sell them appropriately. This enables CCP to continue to make their revenues, and also have a distribution channel for players not willing to pay AUR for these items. The trading of AUR items is comparable to that of the PLEX in EVE, and is a proven method of balancing microtransaction items. To say that they inhibit gameplay is utter tripe. We are currently able to use the core forms of voice communication, that is; We can voice chat in Team and Squad chat. This is where voice communication is essential at its core, and the purchase of a UVT allows you to enhance your communication ability and integration with New Eden by enabling voice communication with EVE pilots and general chat in corp, local and custom channels. On my part, I'm more than happy to buy this extra level of access to communicate in custom channels so that we can coordinate EVE support during corp battles. 50 aurum is what, like 2 cents? An ISK Booster doesn't seem like its a mutually exclusive from a UVT... they could conceivably both be implemented, so in effect CCP would be losing the opportunity for revenue generation through UVTs if they were to be removed. Some might argue that an ISK Booster would cause an imbalance of the purchasing power between players depending on how it is implemented, though the concept has a similar effect to buying AURUM items and selling them for ISK.
mollerz s1ck3r Corp 147	Posted - 2013.04.24 07:18:00 - [64] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: mollerz wrote: Jotun Hiem wrote: Also: The UVT is in place because the voice chat is handled by a third party. The UVT profits go to maintaining it. That couldn't possibly be true. It is true. Vivox hosts our DUST voice. That's some poor as s waste of $.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 438	Posted - 2013.04.24 09:32:00 - [65] - Quote Let me just add in that I've already said why isk boosters are a bad idea. If you look at my post in page 1... Adding in things which directly affect the flow of isk (i.e. from source to bank to sink) can cause either massive inflation or massive deflation, both of which can be extremely harmful to the economy. In the case of massive deflation, let's say that mineral prices drop by a half. This can mean that all ship and module prices drop by a half, and miners get half the income. By comparison, mission runners still get the same income, so can buy twice as much for the same isk. As for massive inflation, the opposite is true. New players, or solo players, will be priced out of the market, as they have to work twice as hard to get a battleship which they'll probably lose the first time round. There have been market shocks before, such as the rogue drone loot thing, where missioners effectively competed with miners, but there has never been a secondary source of isk. A source of isk that allows you to buy in-game currency directly provides a second source, and ruins the economy, as you've effectively eliminated an isk/hour limitation. You can make a few bil in a couple of seconds, as opposed to a limit of about 20 mil/hour in highsec (if solo). PLEXes don't have this issue, as they are bought and sold for isk already in the market, and don't introduce a secondary source. ISK boosters are a secondary source, or can be considered as such, as they expand the power of the primary source. An expansion of the primary source can also be considered the introduction of a secondary source, leading to a market shock. Those who don't have, fall behind. Those who have, still pay the same, as inflation occurs. In the end, it would become necessary to have this isk booster to play without resorting to militia gear 90% of the time. So yes. There's an economy-based argument against introducing an isk booster, and the reason why CCP would avoid introducing one. Not to mention the reason
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 45	Posted - 2013.04.24 11:02:00 - [66] - Quote I like the idea of vanity items paid for by aurum to replace the UVT third party costs. For example player/CCP designed dropsuits and vehicles. Individuals buy unique dropsuits that only they can use and corps buy suits etc only members of the corps can use. If you leave that corp then you instantly loose access to the corp suit/vehicle colour scheme. By vanity I mean that the only thing that changes is the colour and nothing else. You could have vanity items from militia to proto. CCP can charge substantially more for these items than they do for UVTs and this would hopefully cover the costs of third party costs and avoids the risk of introducing an Isk booster. My concerns would be how time consuming would it be to introduce these new colour schemes and what stress would it put on the servers tracking these unique suits during battle. But it would be fun having my own unique suit and think of the fun you could have tracking and killing specific individuals because you know the colour scheme of their unique dropsuit/vehicle.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 120	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:35:00 - [67] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Hmm. I'm surprised I haven't received a response by now. We've already talked so much so quick. Yeah I said screw it and went to bed lol. The PLEX thing youre talking about sounds similar to the subscription theyre looking into for Dust, which I think is an awesome alternative to UVT. If you pay $5 subscription fee every month you dont need a UVT. This is similar to what Fallen Earth did at one time (no real clue if they still do, Im surprised they still even exist), if you wanted to use the mail system in game, which could be used to send items as well as messages, you had to pay a subscription instead of playing for free. Being able to talk without UVT could definately be a perk of the subscription, Im just wondering how much the fee will be every month. To everyone who keeps talking about an ISK booster being the same as buying ISK, just stop. Thats not how it would be. For the example of the EVE mission runner making 20 mil an hour they would simply make 30 mil an hour with an ISK booster, not billions. It would essentially be no differant than ISK boosting skill books except that you have to spend AUR on it and it has a limit on how long it can be used.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 120	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:41:00 - [68] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: I like the idea of vanity items paid for by aurum to replace the UVT third party costs. For example player/CCP designed dropsuits and vehicles. Individuals buy unique dropsuits that only they can use and corps buy suits etc only members of the corps can use. If you leave that corp then you instantly loose access to the corp suit/vehicle colour scheme. By vanity I mean that the only thing that changes is the colour and nothing else. You could have vanity items from militia to proto. CCP can charge substantially more for these items than they do for UVTs and this would hopefully cover the costs of third party costs and avoids the risk of introducing an Isk booster. My concerns would be how time consuming would it be to introduce these new colour schemes and what stress would it put on the servers tracking these unique suits during battle. But it would be fun having my own unique suit and think of the fun you could have tracking and killing specific individuals because you know the colour scheme of their unique dropsuit/vehicle. Vanity items is a pretty good idea too. People dont NEED the items, they simply just want them to look cool. I think thats a good way to bring in money while enhancing gameplay in a positive manner.
Maken Tosch Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 2106	Posted - 2013.04.24 15:31:00 - [69] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Hmm. I'm surprised I haven't received a response by now. We've already talked so much so quick. Yeah I said screw it and went to bed lol. The PLEX thing youre talking about sounds similar to the subscription theyre looking into for Dust, which I think is an awesome alternative to UVT. If you pay $5 subscription fee every month you dont need a UVT. This is similar to what Fallen Earth did at one time (no real clue if they still do, Im surprised they still even exist), if you wanted to use the mail system in game, which could be used to send items as well as messages, you had to pay a subscription instead of playing for free. Being able to talk without UVT could definately be a perk of the subscription, Im just wondering how much the fee will be every month. To everyone who keeps talking about an ISK booster being the same as buying ISK, just stop. Thats not how it would be. For the example of the EVE mission runner making 20 mil an hour they would simply make 30 mil an hour with an ISK booster, not billions. It would essentially be no differant than ISK boosting skill books except that you have to spend AUR on it and it has a limit on how long it can be used. A subscription alternative, in addition to the free-to-play model, is a good idea. But CCP will have to include some pretty good incentives rather than just free comms. Perhaps it's best to restrict ISK boosters to player-to-player transactions between Dust and Eve since such transactions don't really generate nor destroy ISK in the economy. They just merely move ISK from one player to another which helps keeps the economy balanced. But then again, once the economies balance out, there will be no need for an ISK booster because CCP said they will eliminate the tax imposition between the two games at that point. Overall, the more I look at it, it seems that it's better to go with the following options. Option 1. Remove UVT and introduce more vanity items such as the paint bucket system, exclusive suits, access to the Pleasure Hub(cough), and things like that. Option 2. Remove UVT and introduce an optional subscription model. You have to understand by now where I'm coming from. I just don't want the economy to suffer any negative impact. Sure, the New Eden economy undergoes booms and recessions on a regular basis and we even undergo market shocks every so often like what happened to the Oxygen Isotopes during the Gallente Ice Interdiction, but those are the result of dynamic player interactions not the result of who has a credit card.
BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 141	Posted - 2013.04.24 16:33:00 - [70] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: ^ Maken Tosch. It will likely be months before player trading is allowed. Months, pffff! More like years, refer you to 25:16 mark of this video. http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/394708149 But at the same time at the 43:50 mark of the same video we will be getting something for free now, I am calling it right now it is the UVT.

IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 488	Posted - 2013.04.24 20:02:00 - [71] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Why would anyone need to boost ISK gains? Just don't run stuff you can't afford to lose. Ugh, once again. Not the point of this discussion. The point is finding a way to get rid of UVTs that no one likes. Besides, youre telling me that a ISK booster would be useless? As in no one would ever buy it? No, on the contrary, everyone would buy it. It's not useless, it's too good. And why would you want to get rid of UVTs? Just because you don't have a use for them doesn't mean others don't. ISK boosters are too good but passive and active SP boosters are perfectly fine? Please explain how me being able to purchase 100 more GEK-38's with my extra ISK is more broken than being able to go full proto everything in less than half the time it takes someone not using boosters.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2108	Posted - 2013.04.24 20:44:00 - [72] - Quote @IRuby I believe we have moved on past ISK boosters and looking into alternatives that can help CCP cover the cost of maintaining the comms service.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 496	Posted - 2013.04.24 21:17:00 - [73] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Why would anyone need to boost ISK gains? Just don't run stuff you can't afford to lose. Ugh, once again. Not the point of this discussion. The point is finding a way to get rid of UVTs that no one likes. Besides, youre telling me that a ISK booster would be useless? As in no one would ever buy it? No, on the contrary, everyone would buy it. It's not useless, it's too good. And why would you want to get rid of UVTs? Just because you don't have a use for them doesn't mean others don't. ISK boosters are too good but passive and active SP boosters are perfectly fine? Please explain how me being able to purchase 100 more GEK-38's with my extra ISK is more broken than being able to go full proto everything in less than half the time it takes someone not using boosters. Because the ISK booster might have a detrimental effect on the whole economy. Active and passive boosters don't. Moving on.
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 488	Posted - 2013.04.24 21:36:00 - [74] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Why would anyone need to boost ISK gains? Just don't run stuff you can't afford to lose. Ugh, once again. Not the point of this discussion. The point is finding a way to get rid of UVTs that no one likes. Besides, youre telling me that a ISK booster would be useless? As in no one would ever buy it? No, on the contrary, everyone would buy it. It's not useless, it's too good. And why would you want to get rid of UVTs? Just because you don't have a use for them doesn't mean others don't. ISK boosters are too good but passive and active SP boosters are perfectly fine? Please explain how me being able to purchase 100 more GEK-38's with my extra ISK is more broken than being able to go full proto everything in less than half the time it takes someone not using boosters. Because the ISK booster might have a detrimental effect on the whole economy. Active and passive boosters don't. Moving on. By "might have a detrimental effect on the whole economy" I assume you're talking about the nonexistent economy we currently have and will not have for years to come? Sorry but that's a crap excuse/reason not to implement ISK boosters. Even with the arrival of the player market, ISK from EVE will flow and outweigh any kinda of possible imbalance an ISK booster may have and the economy would adjust and compensate accordingly, this is especially true if we were to implement it now rather than later when the market actually makes it's way to Dust. ISK boosters don't guarantee any sort of game breaking penalty in any way what-so-ever. If anything an ISK booster has all positives and no cons if done correctly. + New Players will be able to make more cash a lot faster. Allowing them to run better gear more often.(mitigates SP difference) + ISK Boosters are not guaranteed to earn you a profit or accumulate ISK passively. You have to play to earn and you have net loss per game to account for + More people would buy an ISK booster than a UVT, allowing more profit for CCP. Free Voice comms are now possible. + ISK Boosters would only apply to Pub matches - Takes up a Booster slot.
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 488	Posted - 2013.04.24 21:38:00 - [75] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @IRuby I believe we have moved on past ISK boosters and looking into alternatives that can help CCP cover the cost of maintaining the comms service. Yeah I read the rest of the thread, I agree with you on cosmetics. Items of this nature are always a hit among most games if their actually a attractive. The idea of Corp themed skins is awesome.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2109	Posted - 2013.04.25 00:42:00 - [76] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: By "might have a detrimental effect on the whole economy" I assume you're talking about the nonexistent economy we currently have and will not have for years to come? Sorry but that's a crap excuse/reason not to implement ISK boosters. Even with the arrival of the player market, ISK from EVE will flow and outweigh any kinda of possible imbalance an ISK booster may have... Actually, I wouldn't necessarily say it will take that many years. I would say 4th Quarter next year at the most. Just my guess. No doubt we will see it introduced in phases rather than all at once. Perhaps a small trade window that only two players can agree on (hello, trade window scams) and then isolating the market to high-sec first and then phasing into low-sec and null-sec over time. Ninja Edit: I almost forgot to mention that CCP confirmed that ISK transfers between Eve and Dust will be heavily taxed to and slowly adjusted down as the economies become equal over time.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2114	Posted - 2013.04.26 00:59:00 - [77] - Quote Well, if the point of this thread is about helping CCP figure out how to make communications free and still broad, it looks like CCP has already figured it out for us since there are now posts declaring that UVTs are officially gone come Uprising and one of my corp mates was watching the live stream when he heard it (I'm watching the Dust Keynote right now to see for myself). I guess this thread is dead.
BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 156	Posted - 2013.04.26 01:57:00 - [78] - Quote BMSTUBBY wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: ^ Maken Tosch. It will likely be months before player trading is allowed. Months, pffff! More like years, refer you to 25:16 mark of this video. http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/394708149 But at the same time at the 43:50 mark of the same video we will be getting something for free now, I am calling it right now it is the UVT. Yeah I called it already! I claimed this thread dead before it was announced!
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Unclaimed. 479	Posted - 2013.04.26 21:25:00 - [79] - Quote BMSTUBBY wrote: BMSTUBBY wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: ^ Maken Tosch. It will likely be months before player trading is allowed. Months, pffff! More like years, refer you to 25:16 mark of this video. http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/394708149 But at the same time at the 43:50 mark of the same video we will be getting something for free now, I am calling it right now it is the UVT. Yeah I called it already! I claimed this thread dead before it was announced! Call it you did, BMSTUBBY. Well done. CCP trumps us all. lol.


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