|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have never liked UVT and want it to go away and Ive been considering suggesting the implementation of an ISK booster for sometime. This thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=709178#post709178 has inspired me to make a thread about a solution to both.
I feel that UVT is detrimental to the game because it keeps players of Dust, which is an MMO and sociability being one of the attractions and keys to an MMOs success, from having the ability to truely be sociable, particularly with their EVE counterparts. It is also dissimilar to most AUR items in that nobody wants it. People buy boosters because it helps enhance their gameplay in a positive way, whereas the UVT enhances gameplay in a negative way. You have to buy this item to be able to verbally communicate with anyone you are not in a squad or team with.
Because of this nobody really wants to, and not many people actually do, buy it because they would rather spend their AUR on things that enhance gameplay positively. This means that the UVT is not even really doing its intended purpose which is to make CCP money and supposedly help pay for the use of 3rd party voice systems according to that thread up top.
However, an ISK booster is an item that would also enhance gameplay positively and I believe it would promote new player retention. One of the hardest things for a new player is aquiring skill points and enough ISK to keep running decent suits to aquire that SP with. Since we already have SP boosters, an ISK booster would fit right in with helping newer and older players get ahead or stay ahead. I believe it would also earn more revenue for CCP as a whole than the UVT.
Currently of the top five sellers in the market, two of the items are boosters; the 7 day active and 7 day passive. Should an ISK booster be implemented in place of the UVT I believe it would quickly make the top five sellers list, whereas there are currently no forms of UVT on that list. I posted this in the General Discussion because I know it will actually get seen here, and for people to generally discuss the topic. Please feel free to also go leave some comments in the Feeback forums on the linked thread up top. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jotun Hiem wrote:Buying ISK would be the equivalent of buying power.
No go.
Also: The UVT is in place because the voice chat is handled by a third party. The UVT profits go to maintaining it.
How would it be buying ISK? You still have to earn it through matches. Hell, people in EVE can buy a PLEX and instantly sell it for hundreds of millions of ISK.
Your last point is quite invalid since the proceeds from an ISK booster could pay for 3rd party voice easier than the UVT that nobody wants to buy.
Nstomper wrote:
Yeah isk booster will be in the pay to win category so sorry but no
How would it be any more pay to win than SP boosters? |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:No. If you want ISK from payment, you just need to wait until the secondary player-controlled market opens up and allow you to sell UVTs to other players for ISK. Please keep in mind that ISK earned this way will vary according to the strict New Eden laws of Supply & Demand.
What does any of that have to do with this discussion? The point of this discussion is nobody really wants UVTs and they can very easily be replaced with an ISK booster that would make CCP far more money than UVTs ever will. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:No. If you want ISK from payment, you just need to wait until the secondary player-controlled market opens up and allow you to sell UVTs to other players for ISK. Please keep in mind that ISK earned this way will vary according to the strict New Eden laws of Supply & Demand. What does any of that have to do with this discussion? The point of this discussion is nobody really wants UVTs and they can very easily be replaced with an ISK booster that would make CCP far more money than UVTs ever will. My comment has everything to do with this discussion. Let me point it out. 1. The New Eden economy has never seen any cash-bought item that can boost a player's income like you recommended. 2. Player income, as it stands, is based on the dynamic and somewhat chaotic market forces of the economy. Dumb players lose ISK while smart players gain ISK. It's a no brainer. 3. UVTs are expected to become a very hot commodity in New Eden which will enable players who don't have cash to get a UVT for ISK by simply buying one from a player who already has one and willing to sell it after purchasing it with AUR. It's just like how PLEX works in Eve Online. 4. There are already enough players that I know of who have stockpiled a large sum of UVTs for the reason mentioned in #3.
The world has never seen an MMO like EVE tied to a FPS like Dust either, so I guess Dust shouldnt exist through your logic, correct?
Dumb players would still lose ISK, and smart players would still gain ISK if a ISK booster is implemented.
UVTs will never be as popular as boosters, no matter what you or your friends want to believe. They will sell for (as an example, not real numbers) something like 1 to 10 million ISK for 1 day to 30 day whereas boosters will sell for 50 to 500 million for 1 day to 30 day.
Anymore illogical arguments you want to bring to the table? Cause it sounds mostly like you dont like this idea because youre planning on making ISK off of UVTs in the future. The far distant future that is probably a year or more from now of the player run market existing. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Why would anyone need to boost ISK gains? Just don't run stuff you can't afford to lose.
Ugh, once again. Not the point of this discussion. The point is finding a way to get rid of UVTs that no one likes. Besides, youre telling me that a ISK booster would be useless? As in no one would ever buy it? |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Why would anyone need to boost ISK gains? Just don't run stuff you can't afford to lose. Ugh, once again. Not the point of this discussion. The point is finding a way to get rid of UVTs that no one likes. Besides, youre telling me that a ISK booster would be useless? As in no one would ever buy it? No, on the contrary, everyone would buy it. It's not useless, it's too good. And why would you want to get rid of UVTs? Just because you don't have a use for them doesn't mean others don't.
I believe I outlined this in the OP. Being able to socialize with other people in an MMO should not be inhibited and thats exactly what a UVT does. We all have a use for what the UVT allows us to do, the point is we should be able to do it without paying for it. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:
The world has never seen an MMO like EVE tied to a FPS like Dust either, so I guess Dust shouldnt exist through your logic, correct?
Excuse me, but this is not what my logic meant. Don't twist it.
Your logic can definately be used to infer this
Dumb players would still lose ISK, and smart players would still gain ISK if a ISK booster is implemented.
This is true.
UVTs will never be as popular as boosters, no matter what you or your friends want to believe. They will sell for (as an example, not real numbers) something like 1 to 10 million ISK for 1 day to 30 day whereas boosters will sell for 50 to 500 million for 1 day to 30 day.
I never said nor tried to imply that UVTs are going to be better. I'm just pointing out the fact that UVTs will be a hot commodities. SP boosters are going to be a hot commodity as well. However, neither of us can know for certain how much players will pay for each so we will have to wait until then to see how the market goes.
Anymore illogical arguments you want to bring to the table? Cause it sounds mostly like you dont like this idea because youre planning on making ISK off of UVTs in the future. The far distant future that is probably a year or more from now of the player run market existing.
Look, I know we have our differences, but you and I can come to an agreement that the economy is too delicate for something like ISK boosters to exist and we don't know what damaging repercussions this can bring to the market. I can already see ISK inflation as a result of ISK boosters which can undermine the value of ISK over time once the market hits. Besides, CCP can already control the ISK flow and can adjust the ISK faucet accordingly depending on how we play and provide our feedback. If CCP sees we are not earning enough ISK for the effort we put in, they will increase the rewards. Besides, who is to say that skill books won't get introduced to help us boost our PVE mission income?
No, we cannot come to an agreemant about that. What economy, market, and ISK inflation are you talking about!? We have none of these things. I believe that when we get the market we will also get some form of ISK transfer between EVE and Dust that will be far worse for inflation than an ISK booster that you still have to earn your ISK in matches to use while likely losing assets. Have you also already forgotten about that thing called PC thats coming out soon that will fill every big alliance/corps pockets with enough ISK to the point where they will likely never need ISK again?
UVT is simply a burden on the EVE and Dust link that will never be fully successfully implimented as long as UVT exists. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:There are two separate issues at play here.
Free voice communication I am totally for.
Replacing it with ISK booster is yet to be proven as worthwhile on its own merits, isolated from the UVT discussion.
The main discussion here is getting rid of UVT and replacing it with something that has an equal or greater ability to earn revenue for CCP to pay for the 3rd party voice services. I dont know what most of you people dont get about that. If you have better suggestions then make them, but that is the main point of this discussion. I simply feel an ISK booster meets that goal and helps new players. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:
No, we cannot come to an agreemant about that. What economy, market, and ISK inflation are you talking about!? We have none of these things. I believe that when we get the market we will also get some form of ISK transfer between EVE and Dust that will be far worse for inflation than an ISK booster that you still have to earn your ISK in matches to use while likely losing assets. Have you also already forgotten about that thing called PC thats coming out soon that will fill every big alliance/corps pockets with enough ISK to the point where they will likely never need ISK again?
UVT is simply a burden on the EVE and Dust link that will never be fully successfully implimented as long as UVT exists.
Dust may not have those things market wise, but Eve Online does and it is a beast of an economy that took 10 years to perfect. At the moment, the Dust and Eve economies are isolated. But once the two economies start to merge and ISK finally flows between the two, CCP has already confirmed that ISK transfers between a Dust and Eve account will see heavy taxes imposed. Therefore, it will be pointless to try to flood a Dust player with 100 million ISK if a good chunk of that ISK simply gets destroyed by the tax system along the way. No, I have not forgotten about PC. In fact, PC is the very reason I am against your idea of an ISK booster because what's the point of having such a booster if your income will be increased via other sources anyways in the near future? Quote:...to the point where they will likely never need ISK again? By the way, don't assume that corps will get super rich like that. There will be way to keep the ISK flow under control. CCP Diagoras will make sure of that.
It will help new players, players who wish not to be in corps, and small corps. Do none of yall even remember when we didnt need a UVT to talk in corp chat? And how upset everyone was when CCP "accidentally" made it require a UVT after a patch and how it would be fixed soon, and then they just kinda never brought the subject up again. But now here we are, most of you people are arguing to keep the UVT. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:Mithridates VI wrote:There are two separate issues at play here.
Free voice communication I am totally for.
Replacing it with ISK booster is yet to be proven as worthwhile on its own merits, isolated from the UVT discussion. The main discussion here is getting rid of UVT and replacing it with something that has an equal or greater ability to earn revenue for CCP to pay for the 3rd party voice services. I dont know what most of you people dont get about that. If you have better suggestions then make them, but that is the main point of this discussion. I simply feel an ISK booster meets that goal and helps new players. I get what you mean and I have explained in as much detail as I could as to why we have UVTs and why replacing it with an ISK booster may not be a good idea. Unfortunately, your responses to my response are coming across as a bit... um... how do I say this nicely? Less friendly? I tried to be friendly with you but it seems you're the one who just doesn't want to accept anything but your way only. I'm trying to point out flaws here to help you understand. Of course, none of my ideas or suggestions are perfect, but at least I accept that and I'm willing to accept constructive criticism. I'm giving you constructive criticism which is good. Be glad I'm not replying to you as a troll.
Your ideas or suggestions right now consist of "UVT is fine, just deal with it." If you would come up with an actual alternative to an ISK booster I could actually give you some constructive criticism as well. But for now youre just spewing nonsense over and over and telling me that CCP will take care of everything and they know best. So an ISK booster isnt a great idea or alternative to the UVT, what is? |
|
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:While UVTs may not be liked by everyone, I'm still ok with them. If CCP can find some other way to pay for the costs, then I'm for it. However, ISK boosters doesn't seem to be a good alternative. If I am to compromise with Recon, I would probably agree with removing UVTs but have them replaced with items that doesn't run the risk of potentially harming an economy. Either that, or increase the price of another already-existing AUR item.
See, thats not really an alternative solution. Thats just more butt kissing. Please remove yourself from this thread if youre not actually going to be legitimately constructive. Youve been nothing but a condescending buttkiss so far. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Hmm. I'm surprised I haven't received a response by now. We've already talked so much so quick.
Yeah I said screw it and went to bed lol. The PLEX thing youre talking about sounds similar to the subscription theyre looking into for Dust, which I think is an awesome alternative to UVT. If you pay $5 subscription fee every month you dont need a UVT. This is similar to what Fallen Earth did at one time (no real clue if they still do, Im surprised they still even exist), if you wanted to use the mail system in game, which could be used to send items as well as messages, you had to pay a subscription instead of playing for free. Being able to talk without UVT could definately be a perk of the subscription, Im just wondering how much the fee will be every month.
To everyone who keeps talking about an ISK booster being the same as buying ISK, just stop. Thats not how it would be. For the example of the EVE mission runner making 20 mil an hour they would simply make 30 mil an hour with an ISK booster, not billions. It would essentially be no differant than ISK boosting skill books except that you have to spend AUR on it and it has a limit on how long it can be used. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:I like the idea of vanity items paid for by aurum to replace the UVT third party costs. For example player/CCP designed dropsuits and vehicles. Individuals buy unique dropsuits that only they can use and corps buy suits etc only members of the corps can use. If you leave that corp then you instantly loose access to the corp suit/vehicle colour scheme. By vanity I mean that the only thing that changes is the colour and nothing else. You could have vanity items from militia to proto.
CCP can charge substantially more for these items than they do for UVTs and this would hopefully cover the costs of third party costs and avoids the risk of introducing an Isk booster.
My concerns would be how time consuming would it be to introduce these new colour schemes and what stress would it put on the servers tracking these unique suits during battle.
But it would be fun having my own unique suit and think of the fun you could have tracking and killing specific individuals because you know the colour scheme of their unique dropsuit/vehicle.
Vanity items is a pretty good idea too. People dont NEED the items, they simply just want them to look cool. I think thats a good way to bring in money while enhancing gameplay in a positive manner. |
|
|
|