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Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2067	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:12:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not gonna lie. This is going to be a complex discussion because of the nature of economics and how confusing it's going to be for players who are coming from other games that don't have their own economy. So let's try to keep this as simple as possible so as to mitigate any confusion among the newbies. Instead of referencing Eve ships as examples, I will reference Dust vehicles for clarity sake. New Eden, as it stands after 10 years of operation, has an economy that is so in depth that it's really difficult to describe other than to say that it's based on the real-world global market... only without the government regulations. Basics To start off, the Eve economy is governed extensively by the laws of supply and demand. This basically means that if the demand for a commodity (example: a tank) is high and the available supply of said commodity is low, then the average price will increase accordingly. If the demand is low and the supply is high, then the price will drop accordingly. The supply will be dependent on the availability of resources needed to produce such a supply (example: mining materials needed to build a tank) while the demand will be dependent on what the buyers intend to achieve with such commodities (example: combat, market manipulation, etc.). That said, the demand for one commodity can also potentially increase the demand for other commodities that complement it. For example, if a tank is in high demand, then the demand for the turrets and related modules will increase accordingly. But those commodities have to come from somewhere. Manufacturers usually consider one of two options. Either mine the materials needed to produce those tanks, or buy the needed materials from someone else who has already mined them for you. Yes, even the materials count as commodities. The availability of these materials is dependent on how much effort the miners put into acquiring them. The more materials mined and made available to the market, the cheaper the price. But then you have to consider how the miners got their equipment. This inevitably leads back to the manufacturer and the miners. It's an endless cycle of production. Clarity As you can see, something has to be given up in order to produce these commodities. What is given up is usually material acquired through a player's effort. This is where things can get sketchy when you introduce AUR items into the market. If a tank is made available on the market that is only produced out of thin air via payment of AUR, then this will undermine the efforts of the manufacturers and miners which is bad for the economy. In Eve, AUR items are only limited to cosmetic things like clothing and monocles which are only produced out of thin air and can later be resold on the open market for ISK. But even then, there is a problem right now with those clothing items. They are indestructible and they never wear out. By that, I mean you don't lose them if your pod gets destroyed of you kept wearing it all year around without a single shower. As a result, when someone buys these items with AUR from the Noble Exchange store, they have essentially added another indestructible commodity to the economy which will only dilute the market with more of such items and will result in prices dropping as demand continues to reduce. The only way to bring the prices back up is if someone buys whole stock piles of them in large enough quantities and basically trashes them (right-click and "trash it") so no one can resell them. Even then, the measure is only temporary because the increase in price will only encourage people to spend AUR to get these items and resell them to take advantage of the price spike and thus result in the price dropping back down again. In Dust, the suits were where and even the AUR weapons and modules are consumable. This means that if you die in battle with it, you don't get it back... ever. This means that demand will remain at a somewhat level pace. But there is one problem with them. Unlike traditional commodities, you are not asked to give up anything consumable like materials and whatnot to create it. This will only undermine the efforts of the manufacturers and miners even though you will one day be able to sell them for ISK. BPOs don't really present any significant problem at all for the economy considering that they are no different than the militia level stuff and the ISK variant militia items are not produced in any way by the players. They are just NPC-provided items. Of course, as the buyers of BPO's become veterans and grow wealthy and trained in the years to come, the veterans will decide to ditch the BPOs and sell them to newbies for ISK assuming the newbies are willing to pay a hefty ISK price. This is no problem for CCP because the company will depend on the veterans for recruiting new players and try to maintain some demand for the BPOs. But in regards to manufacturing and mining, the AUR items do present a major problem for them. Why waste hours of mining and producing if you can just get your credit card and get it instantly? That is the problem AUR items present. One solution to this is to have each AUR item that can be consumed require some material in return. This way, mining can benefit because materials are needed. But this still leaves out the manufacturer. On top of that, this solution will only create more questions such how much material are we talking here. The point of this thread is to help CCP understand how to better prepare the Dust economy how to make it work with these AUR items without hurting the industry aspect of the economy which is the very essence or core of the economy.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3590	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:18:00 - [2] - Quote One little cavat, the clothes are very destructable if put in the cargo bay. It would make sense not to wear clothes in the pod.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2067	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:21:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: One little cavat, the clothes are very destructable if put in the cargo bay. It would make sense not to wear clothes in the pod. Funny, my esquire coat never moved to the cargohold whenever I jumped into the pod. My clothes seem to be water proof.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 517	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:29:00 - [4] - Quote Well if the blueprints begin to work in DUST like they do in EVE, perhaps these AUR BPCs could simply cost nothing (perhaps 5-10AUR, 20AUR for prototype BPCs), but have them require materials too? Just throwing ideas around; I'd say this is worth some discussion.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2067	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:31:00 - [5] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Well if the blueprints begin to work in DUST like they do in EVE, perhaps these AUR BPCs could simply cost nothing (perhaps 5-10AUR, 20AUR for prototype BPCs), but have them require materials too? Just throwing ideas around; I'd say this is worth some discussion. Thank you. I also want us to share ideas on this to see how manufacturers can benefit from this system.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3590	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:36:00 - [6] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: One little cavat, the clothes are very destructable if put in the cargo bay. It would make sense not to wear clothes in the pod. Funny, my esquire coat never moved to the cargohold whenever I jumped into the pod. My clothes seem to be water proof. I am just saying clothes can very well be easily destroyed once placed in the cargo hold. None the less nobody can manufacture clothing right now and as far as it stands it seems ccp wants to avoid expanding avatar game play due to the fact incarna was probably the worst expansion on eve to date. As long as player cannot manufacture the items I wouldn't mind their permanence because they're like buying a name and the 'soul' of the clone you occupy in eve month to month and the right to fly. If Eve where ever to make clothing 'design' possible then I can see the need for all clothing to be destroyable provided they're affordable. While the AUR could continue to buy the original designs to provide altered design copies of to be manufactured but this gets into the issue of pay to earn. Luckily clothing isn't life an death in eve online.
bumm baliste TTCorp 0	Posted - 2013.04.21 03:37:00 - [7] - Quote nice thought but as it stands now and, from what ccp has said, how it will continue to be, is that you have BPOs and BPCs no material is needed to manufacture them as they are pulled from a pool of nanites as they have low material requirements. in the future we might have to supply the nanites as well as the BPCs but then AUR suits will still consume a mined material. we will have to see how CCP intends to do suit production in the future, but for the foreseeable future all items are bought as BPO or BPC and produced on the field.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 69	Posted - 2013.04.21 04:44:00 - [8] - Quote I still believe that CCP should focus on cosmetic changes instead of skill based items. Keep skill based AUR items but don't make them the focus.
bumm baliste TTCorp 0	Posted - 2013.04.21 06:09:00 - [9] - Quote WTE of the tanks and neo suits aur items will be fine once they can be sold on the open market. Even the neo suits would be fine if the proto suits required level 4. Tho I guess thats a non issue come next build. guess they wanted to make it easier for testing purposes. test successful proto bear is still fail.
Rubico BetaMax. CRONOS. 11	Posted - 2013.04.21 07:07:00 - [10] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: This is where things can get sketchy when you introduce AUR items into the market. If a tank is made available on the market that is only produced out of thin air via payment of AUR, then this will undermine the efforts of the manufacturers and miners which is bad for the economy. In Eve, AUR items are only limited to cosmetic things like clothing and monocles which are only produced out of thin air and can later be resold on the open market for ISK. Incarna items are a relatively underused item in eve, so this is a bad comparison, PLEX is much more analogous, it is consumable(hence destructable) and functions as a conversion from RL money to ISK. This is the funamental genius of PLEX, It is a medium of exchange for people who value thier time more than the price in ISK of plex(and thus will turn RL cash into plex then sell on open market), and those who value the ISK more than thier free time(and thus will buy plex on open market for ingame ISK). This results in a pareto improvement in the eve economy. Those that would not otherwise of coninued thier subscription if plex had been absent will use ISK to fun thier accts. This means more players and more revenue for CCP. Thats why: Maken Tosch wrote: But in regards to manufacturing and mining, the AUR items do present a major problem for them. Why waste hours of mining and producing if you can just get your credit card and get it instantly? This doesnt happen. because the playerbase's preferences will not allow it. A segment of the game will always value thier RL money more than they value the time to earn enough ISK to buy the item on the open market. A good way to look at it is a college kid with too much time on their hands and no cash wont buy those AUR items, but will instead grind. While someone in his 40's making 6 figures wont want to waste his or her time on that grind, and would rather get the shortcut. Which leads into my next point: Maken Tosch wrote: In Dust, the suits we wear and even the AUR weapons and modules we use are consumable. This means that if you die in battle with it, you don't get it back... ever. This means that demand will remain at a somewhat level pace. But there is one problem with them. Unlike traditional commodities, you are not asked to give up anything consumable like materials and whatnot to create it. This will only undermine the efforts of the manufacturers and miners even though you will one day be able to sell them for ISK. What will happen is the same in eve, there will be a 'conversion rate' between AUR and ISK that will be relatively similar across items (due to arbitrage traders) For players who have all necessary skills there will be essentially no difference between an AUR item and an ISK on the player driven market, the player could either buy it with ISK, or convert that ISK into AUR though selling some other good for AUR then use that to buy the item, either way its the same. But what would happen is that for a certain subset of the player base who do not have the proper skills there will be added value to having the AUR items. This is where the primary demand for AUR items and one could envision AUR items being slightly more 'expensive' in ISK due to it. However, manufacturing wont be adversely affected because there will always be a tendency for the price of the ISK good to converge on the AUR good when the exchange rate is taken into account, so there will always be a market for them.

Warpfiend Thanos Destruction Initiative Enterprise 29	Posted - 2013.04.21 07:14:00 - [11] - Quote I understand your view-point Maken but this isn't a real problem. As these are perishable items they will only dilute the market for a single life/death cycle, which has less real effect than any noticeable market manipulation AND this is a known source of disturbance so we can and DO plan for it. Your real worry should be the BPO as they are permanent items and introducing something like this introduces an element that never leaves the market or requires materials to keep in working order (like how a house behaves, it's only permanent as long as you spend resources on maintaining it). But nobody cares about endless supplies of militia items since it's the same as our starting fits. This has no more effect really than letting your younger sibling/friend play on your account while you're at work as long as they keep a positive bank account for games played.
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 73	Posted - 2013.04.21 07:58:00 - [12] - Quote How's about this for a quick (I don't play eve) fix. Let the eve players manufacture and build a proto weapon as normal, then instead of selling it to us, they sell it to CCP, or a service that takes the weapon and makes it aurum adv. That way, eve players are still building the aur stuff but for ISK and someone else is adding the aur bonuses. Will this create more problems than it fixes?
Rusticuls ATHEIST's For XENU 16	Posted - 2013.04.21 08:01:00 - [13] - Quote Rubico is right on the mark. Once people can create AUR items and sell them for ISK the market should regulate itself fairly well. I think having an AUR market helps with regulation and preventing EVE corps from getting a crazy stranglehold on the Dust market and crippling the game.
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 53	Posted - 2013.04.21 09:08:00 - [14] - Quote AURUM items need to get out of Dust514 , im dissapointed and i feel lied by CCP " bu bu iz cosmethicsss". F2P with a catch and that is P2W because CCP needs your money , 60$ for the game is not enough , they need more. Can you say : G R E E D ? In EVE, ISK is BOSS , in Dust514 the BOSS is AURUM. AURUM>>>ISK real $$$>>>imaginary currency FACT
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2072	Posted - 2013.04.21 09:19:00 - [15] - Quote @big mama Take your rant somewhere else. This is a thread for sharing ideas on how to help merge the aurum items with the economy properly and hopefully give the members of the CPM something to work with as a blueprint for future iterations. This is a not a thread for rants. Any attempts to derail this thread with rants will result in me asking CCP to lock this thread.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 477	Posted - 2013.04.21 09:20:00 - [16] - Quote Rusticuls wrote: Rubico is right on the mark. Once people can create AUR items and sell them for ISK the market should regulate itself fairly well. I think having an AUR market helps with regulation and preventing EVE corps from getting a crazy stranglehold on the Dust market and crippling the game. There's no way for players to create AUR items. I don't understand what you mean by AUR market though. Do you mean selling the AUR items on the market for ISK? The demand for AUR items is going to be substantially less than ISK items so they really won't pose a threat to manufacturing. That is assuming these new AUR items aren't going to remain in the game. However If they do remain they could become more desirable than the ISK items and that would be a very, very bad thing.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2567	Posted - 2013.04.21 10:07:00 - [17] - Quote The only problem with AUR items is that at present, some are directly superior to any ISK version of the same item. Until that imbalance is fixed, there will always be problems with AUR items. When it's fixed, there will be no problems. You need to grind to earn ISK, and you need to grind to earn SP that you apply to your skills so you can use the ISK items. If you don't want to grind, and have real money to spare, you can spend some of that real money to get items without needing to grind as much for ISK and/or SP. The items shouldn't have better fitting stats, or better stats for anything else. At the moment, there's a valid argument that a lower-tier player using high-tier AUR gear won't have the fitting skills trained to allow them to create those top-tier fits unless you lower the PG/CPU costs on AUR items, but even that could be circumvented by making fitting skills not apply to AUR items. Then the AUR items can have their fitting stats lined up with maxed fitting skills on the ISK variant, but they don't get better when you train up into those fitting skills, which in turn means they aren't a pay-to-win way to free up more PG/CPU than any ISK-only build can ever manage. And no, saying "they won't be pay-to-win if you can buy for ISK" doesn't work, because if they give a real advantage over "proper" ISK-based purchases, then the in-game economy will revolve around those P2W items instead of manufacturing.
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 53	Posted - 2013.04.21 11:06:00 - [18] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @big mama Take your rant somewhere else. This is a thread for sharing ideas on how to help merge the aurum items with the economy properly and hopefully give the members of the CPM something to work with as a blueprint for future iterations. This is a not a thread for rants. Any attempts to derail this thread with rants will result in me asking CCP to lock this thread. its not rant , it is a FACT , if you cant face the TRUTH move along
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 477	Posted - 2013.04.21 12:43:00 - [19] - Quote ***I USE THE TERM "GEAR" BECAUSE A LOT OF PLAYERS ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH BLUEPRINTS* Garrett Blacknova wrote:** The only problem with AUR items is that at present, some are directly superior to any ISK version of the same item. Until that imbalance is fixed, there will always be problems with AUR items. When it's fixed, there will be no problems. You need to grind to earn ISK, and you need to grind to earn SP that you apply to your skills so you can use the ISK items. If you don't want to grind, and have real money to spare, you can spend some of that real money to get items without needing to grind as much for ISK and/or SP. The items shouldn't have better fitting stats, or better stats for anything else. At the moment, there's a valid argument that a lower-tier player using high-tier AUR gear won't have the fitting skills trained to allow them to create those top-tier fits unless you lower the PG/CPU costs on AUR items, but even that could be circumvented by making fitting skills not apply to AUR items. Then the AUR items can have their fitting stats lined up with maxed fitting skills on the ISK variant, but they don't get better when you train up into those fitting skills, which in turn means they aren't a pay-to-win way to free up more PG/CPU than any ISK-only build can ever manage. And no, saying "they won't be pay-to-win if you can buy for ISK" doesn't work, because if they give a real advantage over "proper" ISK-based purchases, then the in-game economy will revolve around those P2W items instead of manufacturing. Exactly. I don't want to start another P2W argument here but it this does relate to my overall point I'm trying to make. Yes I think these unbalanced AUR mods need to go but not for the reason as most players. The advantage they offer is not nearly as big as everyone seems to think it is. That little bit of extra damage is not the only reason you died. People have been crying about the damage mods not having a penalty endlessly. Now we find out they were never even broken so what's the excuse for getting killed? I'm just getting tired of hearing the words Pay to Win I guess because none of this stuff is exactly what I would call a "WIn Button". You get a small, but noticeable, advantage. That's it. Everyone needs to stop throwing around these words that aren't really accurate and blaming every death on everything else in the game except themselves. And that is exactly the problem. The AUR items are going to be more expensive than the ISK items obviously. So once a player trains the skills needed for the ISK item they will have no reason to buy the AUR items any more. In addition to the extra cost of the AUR gear by training the skill a player will probably get a bonus to the gear's effectiveness. This means the demand for ISK gear will always be much, much higher than AUR gear which will protect the manufacturers. T he AUR gear is going to be bought almost exclusively by new players which means prices will have to low enough they can afford it. This way players that buy AUR items to resell won't be making gamebreaking amounts of profit from them. The EVE market isn't like a markets you've seen in other games. You don't sell to a bunch of NPC vendors. You don't get any money until another player buys it from you so the price will always be low enough that new players will be willing to buy them since older, more wealthy players will have no interest in purchasing them. However this is where this I start to get worried. This gear with better performance than any ISK gear has the potential to really undermine the games internal economics. I'm going to refer to it as "AUR grade" gear because the advantage you get isn't even close to "P2W" territory. Plus "P2W" has been used incorrectly so much I don't many people even understand what it really means and just use it because everyone else does. So even though the actual advantage of the AUR grade gear is much less then everyone thinks it is you still have the problem that everyone thinks it's amazing and gives you a huge advantage. So now older, wealthier players will feel they have to use the AUR grade gear because everyone else has it. Now the demand shifts to the AUR items that will have to be seeded by the game and can't be manufactured by players. The buyer demographic moves from new players with little money to older players that can afford much higher prices. There's a chance this would lead to huge, unbalanced profits for those players that could afford to spend real money. AUR prices are not dynamic and can't adjust to changing market conditions so massive exploitation and manipulation would inevitably follow. Manufacturing would suffer greatly which would further hurt players unable to pay real money and cause the economy to destabilize even more. I know all this sound like doomsday pessimism but for those of you unfamiliar with New Eden let me promise you that if something can broken or abused it will be exploited by as many people as possible as quickly as possible to the greatest extent possible. Tears are like water to EVE players. Just google "Hulkageddon". Keep in mind there were like 5 of those things over the course of several years and it only fell apart because the player that ran it acted a fool on the forums and got banned. Which was during a massive "protest" in which a large chunk of the players spent days shooting the NPC stations trying to actually blow up EVE Online. That's my real concern about this new direction CCP may or may not be heading. I hope it has all been a mistake though. What do you guys think?
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 107	Posted - 2013.04.21 13:34:00 - [20] - Quote Aur items should drop as loot then there is no pay to win.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3598	Posted - 2013.04.21 13:52:00 - [21] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I still believe that CCP should focus on cosmetic changes instead of skill based items. Keep skill based AUR items but don't make them the focus. Cosmetic items are coming it had to take a bit of new programming to make it possible.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3598	Posted - 2013.04.21 13:54:00 - [22] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Aur items should drop as loot then there is no pay to win. PC will allow AUR items to drop provided they're not blueprints. High sec salvage system will still remain as an injector of officer gear as with faction warfare it would seem for faction gear.
Spacetits CDXX Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 208	Posted - 2013.04.21 15:28:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: PC will allow AUR items to drop provided they're not blueprints. High sec salvage system will still remain as an injector of officer gear as with faction warfare it would seem for faction gear. Source for this, or is this just insider knowledge?
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 303	Posted - 2013.04.21 15:58:00 - [24] - Quote I made a troll thread about this and its impact on economic warfare. Will use this excellent OP to explain the core issue later on. The impact on economic warfare is the biggest immediate issue. P2W is not so much there on individual level but on corporate level, as aurum items allow isk to be used on clone infrastructure in PC. Aurum high end items affect economic warfare. The presence of aurum items as they currently are tells me two things: GÇó Base item industry is negligible, and the only relevant manufacturing dust can have is advanced items, t2, for which there will be no aurum variants. GÇó Dust ISK can only be reliably linked to EVE ISK when the manufactured economy is lifted above aurum item quality. This is the route CCP has to take, if they are not planning to remove aurum items. Limiting aurum items to t1 only is the sole sustainable way to ever introduce production and market link to eve. T2 items could be manufactured by PC research and industrial facilities. Alternatively, even better, they could be made eve side by PI. This way eve would have the only pure industry, dust realistically does not need manufacturing. AURUM items are a fundamental problem for dust economic warfare, as will be seen in the PC soon. Corp whose members use AUR gear where possible will have a big economic advantage by shared ISK wealth. Corporation level aurum purchased PC infrastructure is, what we are really looking at, just through the layer of player economy.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2074	Posted - 2013.04.21 17:38:00 - [25] - Quote @Altina Hulkageddon is a fun pass time. No doubt about it. Thankfully, it can still be hosted and sponsered even if Helicity Boson was banned. Someone else will just pick up the slack. @Trollsroyce I see your point there with manufacturing in Dust. Currently, in a first-person-shooter like Dust, manufacturing is only limited to clone production which will be the primary commodity in Dust. And since you won't be able to buy clones with AUR, the market for clones remains safe. I also like the idea of letting the Eve players do the manufacturing and limiting AUR items to just T1 variants but I see a little problem here. We don't want Eve players completely extorting Dust players knowing how Eve players are when it comes to power and greed. One way to solve that problem is to require the Eve players to work with the Dust players through planetary interaction which has already been established since the Tyrannis expansion. Dust mercs provide the protection and management of the facilities in the districts while Eve players provide way of manufacturing with those facilities. I'll let CCP figure out how to make that work. But overall, we can't ignore the fact that currently the best way to start this off in terms of economics is to possibly require the purchase of AUR to include giving up a certain amount of a specific material so there is some demand for mining. Mining is still something that can be practical in a FPS like Dust since we'll soon be living in districts and have all this open terrain with free time on our hands.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 303	Posted - 2013.04.21 18:42:00 - [26] - Quote Even though I've made some joke threads about mining, I think it should be automated and infrastructure based. Mining by strip miner installations, research in installations etc. That works like PI but on dust side. I'd keep dust very simple with active gameplay being "just shoot". All supporting gameplay would be neocom spreadsheets in (optional) merc quarters.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 73	Posted - 2013.04.21 19:14:00 - [27] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I still believe that CCP should focus on cosmetic changes instead of skill based items. Keep skill based AUR items but don't make them the focus. Cosmetic items are coming it had to take a bit of new programming to make it possible. I know, I'm just saying that they should try to get most of their money through those items, rather then focusing on skill based AUR items. Understand?
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 107	Posted - 2013.04.21 20:03:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Aur items should drop as loot then there is no pay to win. PC will allow AUR items to drop provided they're not blueprints. High sec salvage system will still remain as an injector of officer gear as with faction warfare it would seem for faction gear. If we can get aur drops in PC then there is no reason to cry. To fix the manufacturing side of things we could have eve NPC corps buy materials from pilots and produce aur items for dust. This way everything comes from somewhere.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 481	Posted - 2013.04.21 20:41:00 - [29] - Quote The price of AUR items will be constant so I don't see how manufacturing them can work. What if the cost of materials gets too high for anyone to want to mess with it? Not to mention you can't sell anything for AUR so how do you get paid? Iron Wolf Saber wrote: PC will allow AUR items to drop provided they're not blueprints. DId you mean so long as they are not BPO's? Or are you talking about something else?
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2081	Posted - 2013.04.21 21:49:00 - [30] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: The price of AUR items will be constant so I don't see how manufacturing them can work. What if the cost of materials gets too high for anyone to want to mess with it? Not to mention you can't sell anything for AUR so how do you get paid? Iron Wolf Saber wrote: PC will allow AUR items to drop provided they're not blueprints. DId you mean so long as they are not BPO's? Or are you talking about something else? I see what you mean. I completely forgot about that. That just complicates things now.



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