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How to stop players whining tanks are OP.

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SherIock Holmes Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:01:00 - [1] - Quote Remove the top tear ones. Then tanks are no longer OP and are now something that's a side skill to skill into. They no longer dominate the battlefield and can be support for infantry but can also be taken out by the enemy team.
Void Echo Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 41	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:05:00 - [2] - Quote which leads to them no longer being used in any situation, this is NOT COD.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3590	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:06:00 - [3] - Quote I find that to stop making players whine about tanks being OP is to blow one up.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1490	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:07:00 - [4] - Quote Don't destroy the tank now
Thumb Green THE STAR BORN 65	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:10:00 - [5] - Quote So basically the way to make people stop whining that tanks are OP is to make the tankers whine about tanks being UP, whine even more? No thanks.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2638	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:12:00 - [6] - Quote My squad and I take out proto tanks all the time, it just requires coordination. The real issue here is tanks in Ambush, because ambush maps are too small. Once you have a few AV guys trying to take out a tank, ARs will hit you no matter where you are, and the game usually landslides in your opponents favor, even if you manage to kill the tank
SherIock Holmes Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:12:00 - [7] - Quote Void Echo wrote: which leads to them no longer being used in any situation, this is NOT COD. No your right this isn't CoD, but it shouldn't be Tank 514 either. Tanks shouldn't be the unbeatable force on the battlefield.
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. 192	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:18:00 - [8] - Quote Your right and they are not.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 1196	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:19:00 - [9] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Void Echo wrote: which leads to them no longer being used in any situation, this is NOT COD. No your right this isn't CoD, but it shouldn't be Tank 514 either. Tanks shouldn't be the unbeatable force on the battlefield. tanks aren't unbeatable, they die quickly enough if you get enough fire onto them, and can get them into the open, case in point I killed a gunnlogi by myself by tossing 3 packed AV nades at it, it died in less than 15 seconds. it was a relatively low level tank, didn't have that much ehp, but the point remains. Tanks die quickly if they make a mistake and are up against good AV players, the problem like dust fiend said, is that ambush maps are too small and leave you vulnerable to enemy infantry all the time.
Thumb Green THE STAR BORN 65	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:22:00 - [10] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Tanks shouldn't be the unbeatable force on the battlefield. They're not. Sure they can be hard to kill and in some cases impossible (not in the sense they're invincible but instead the crew is just that good) but if the tank is to busy hiding from AV to pose a real threat to the team then it's been beaten nonetheless.

Veritas Vitae Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 123	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:27:00 - [11] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I find that to stop making players whine about tanks being OP is to blow one up. ^this.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 165	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:29:00 - [12] - Quote I feel they're pretty well balanced, it's just a few instances with either half competent AVers or half competent tankers that make people QQ. I get it, no one likes dying, I just hope CCP sees this and doesn't do anything stupid.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 313	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:46:00 - [13] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Tanks shouldn't be the unbeatable force on the battlefield. If you think tanks are unbeatable the real problem is that you are bad. Tanks are squishy bro. Figure it out.
Leither Yiltron KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 449	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:14:00 - [14] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Remove the top tear ones. Then tanks are no longer OP and are now something that's a side skill to skill into. They no longer dominate the battlefield and can be support for infantry but can also be taken out by the enemy team. Your name is too distracting for me to read the actual thread. Nice pick.
Justin Tymes Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:19:00 - [15] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: My squad and I take out proto tanks all the time, it just requires coordination. The real issue here is tanks in Ambush, because ambush maps are too small. Once you have a few AV guys trying to take out a tank, ARs will hit you no matter where you are, and the game usually landslides in your opponents favor, even if you manage to kill the tank This. It's not the tanks, but the tanks + infantry + the small map. The only way to reliably take out a tank without being screwed over by infantry with a brain in Ambush is to use dropships to a high elevation and drop an uplink in case you get sniped.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 759	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:24:00 - [16] - Quote if tanks are so overpowered, why is it I kill almost every single one I see? Seriously, not that hard to destroy or render even prototype tanks a nonfactor in a battle if you skill into AV further than militia swarms. If you can't be bothered to skill into weapons that kill tanks then don't be surprised when guys like me who stopped bothering to count how many of them we've killed laugh at you relentlessly.
Jotun Hiem The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 536	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:25:00 - [17] - Quote The only thing that makes tanks OP is standard Ambush. The lack of supply depots makes switching gear to match the situation almost impossible without dying, and switching out to a proper AV fit will just leave you easy pickings for everyone else on the enemy team. Which is why I never play standard Ambush, the maps are too small and it sucks for proper squad play.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2638	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:27:00 - [18] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: Which is why I never play standard Ambush, the maps are too small and it sucks for proper squad play. Same, the only reason I hop in ambush anymore is because of how ISK poor I am, and thanks to tanks, they rarely go past 6 minutes
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 1	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:31:00 - [19] - Quote I'm using proto swarms and I can approve that 3000 dmg per swarm is more than enough.
Jotun Hiem The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 536	Posted - 2013.04.20 21:35:00 - [20] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Same, the only reason I hop in ambush anymore is because of how ISK poor I am, and thanks to tanks, they rarely go past 6 minutes I just run OMS all the time. The maps are large enough and there's enough installations that I'm not locked into my current gear. Also: massacring redberries with the blaster installations is so much fun. It's like being at a carnival shooting gallery.

undeadsoldier90 Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 287	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:19:00 - [21] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Remove the top tear ones. Then tanks are no longer OP and are now something that's a side skill to skill into. They no longer dominate the battlefield and can be support for infantry but can also be taken out by the enemy team. Have you played dust before? Have you played lately? In no way shape or form are tanks OP. At this point of the build 1 lone person with nanohives and regular AV nades can blow up a 3mill isk tank... OP I think not sir. Good day.
Gelan Corbaine BetaMax. CRONOS. 131	Posted - 2013.04.21 02:07:00 - [22] - Quote I've said it before ..... I'll say it again. It's not the tank that's the problem but the little shaznits surrounding it ! I mean come on guys I just...uh want to look and admire your tanks for a few seconds . Completely and totally innocent ..... honest !
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 160	Posted - 2013.04.21 02:13:00 - [23] - Quote Increase damage bonus to projectiles striking from a direction that avoids front armor plates. Make it drastic too. 20% increase in damage taken from a flank. 50% increase to damage from the back. 100% increase if someone manages to pull off a shot from a pretty steep angle to the top of the body (i.e. from an elevated position). This would be most applicable to FG AV. This would make ppl think twice before rolling in headstrong before thinking where they are taking their tank.
Scramble Scrub Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.21 02:14:00 - [24] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Remove the top tear ones. Then tanks are no longer OP and are now something that's a side skill to skill into. They no longer dominate the battlefield and can be support for infantry but can also be taken out by the enemy team. Are you implying that top tier tanks are unkilliable?
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 29	Posted - 2013.04.21 04:00:00 - [25] - Quote There are several factors that go into the history of HAV vs infanttry in this that get overlooked since the last character wipe. It all boils down to one statement: Players didn't take AV seriously Dust 514 rewards players for specialization. While tankers invested 100% of their SP into HAV, they got better and better while there were so few players that invested in AV. As more and more SP became available, it only got worse. Tankers could pubstomp ambush matches all by themselves, even under the flurry of militia swarm launchers with nothing to fear. The occasional person with standard AV grenades or higher tier forge guns could pose a problem, but the rest of the tanker's team could manage that if they weren't supported properly. The tides of a skirmish could be decided by a well fitted tanker with 3 squad mates. Was it imbalanced: yes. Should tankers have been nerfed because they were playing their role as intended: kitten no! Infantry cried OP and nerf, pointing the blame at CCP for the imbalance. Truth be told, they had no one to blame but themselves. If an effective counter so something exists and the majority of players ignore it, it shouldn't be considered OP or get nerfed. Tankers have been doing what they were supposed to all along: Get better at their field until they can be the most effective in that role as possible. If their counter to that role doesn't specialize to keep up, then tough kitten. There shouldn't be any special treatment. Now, players are finally taking AV seriously. Just the other day, someone decided to drop a marauder into an ambush. Instead of everyone fleeing, I saw swarms of AV grenades, forge guns, swarm launchers coordinating to ruin that unfortunate pilot's day. When it got blown to hell, I smiled as the person who showed up on the kill feed was using a prototype swarm launcher. A few seconds after, the unfortunate pilot rage quitted before his flaming wreckage even disintegrated. If he had a squad communicating with him, or there was another tanker on the team to divide the damage between each other, the outcome could have easily gone the other way. As of right now, HAV need infantry support as much as AV need to coordinate with weapons to match or surpass the HAV's tech. Everything is working as intended. ...But wait, there's more. Obviously the rise of HAV didn't go ignored. More and more infantry players probably figured it would be in their best interest to go with the biggest gun. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of SP skill, and player skill to use that gun efficiently. It seems like more and more tanks are getting called in and instapopped since AV is taken more seriously and these fledgeling tankers just don't have the SP/skill to use their vehicles properly, thinking that they're supposed to be invincible. Again, working as intended. One thing that easily gets ignored for both pilots and infantry is core passive skills. Having a better dropsuit or vehicle doesn't mean it's that much better if you don't have simple skills like circuitry, combat engineering, field mechanics, shield control, shield boost systems, weaponry/turret operation, and dropsuit command. (somewhat optional if you're not a scout) Having all these maxed essentially give everything you use: +25% base CPU for dropsuits and vehicles +25% base PG for dropsuits and vehicles +25% base Armor for dropsuits and vehicles +25% base shield for dropsuits and vehicles +25% base passive shield regeneration for dropsuits and vehicles +10% base damage for all handheld weapons/all turrets (for turret operation) -25% scan profile for all dropsuits (optional depending on role) Pop quiz: -HAV, would you rather have a Sagaris/Surya without core passive skills maxed, or a Gunlogi/Madruger with core passives maxed? -Infantry, would you rather have a VK.1/VK.0 fitting without core passives maxed or a Standard/Advanced fitting with core passives maxed? I'll leave these unanswered since the obvious choices is... well... obvious. For a more economically sound and efficient merc: I don't specialize in HAV, but this is still applicable with the life lesson: Just because you have access to superior tech doesn't mean you need to use it 24/7. I have access to advanced dropsuits, prototype/advanced modules, prototype weapons, and prototype equipment. Want to know what I usually use? Standard/Militia You're probably scratching your head right now, but let me share something with you I've learned from observation: I have a friend that I regularly play with that has access to advanced gear and prototype weapons. Very skilled player with a good gun game, situational awareness, teamwork and all that good stuff. But when he dies, all you'll hear for the remainder of the match is how much his fitting cost and how he's not going to get any money from this match if he dies again, he's going to probably go negative, and how did he die to someone using standard gear. To sum it up: He spends more time worrying about losing his expensive gear than making the most out of it. My day to day fittings cost probably 1/10th of what he uses. I'm just as efficient if not more because I try to do more with less. Occasionally, I'll switch to my absolute best fittings an play lights out! Not just because the superior tech is making be a better player, but because I'm not worried about what I'm going to lose, I'm focused on the battle. If you're bringing out your Sagaris/Surya and getting popped too often, downgrade to your Gonlogi/Madruger, or even your Sica/Soma for a while. Once you feel more comfortable, upgrade again and notice how better your experience gets. To sum things up, here's a popular saying from EVE Online: If you can't afford to lose it, then don't use it!
bumm baliste TTCorp 1	Posted - 2013.04.21 06:22:00 - [26] - Quote wanna show players that tanks are not OP give players 10 no skill required proto swarms. If they don't catch on that tanks are UP they will never catch on and can go ** them selfs. but then why should anyone be forced to skill into any thing they don't want to. its stupid really I run with std swarm and with any team support there is no tank that doesn't go down real fast. I have corp mates that run proto forge/swarm and tanks just melt under their fire. Any one bitching about tanks obviously hasn't tried any real AV weapon and deserves to get run all over. Hell if even half a team would run MLT swarms when a tank showed up tanks would be a non issue, but some one else will deal with the tanks I guess. sry this turned into a bit of a rant but I'm tired of being a jack of all trades. The number of matches I play where I am the only guy that can push or hold points and then I have to swap out to play AV and swap again to play counter sniper and then swap again to fight out of the redline my team put us in is truly astounding, hell I barely have a positive KDR and this ** happens. If some of these guys going 1/13 would put on swarms maybe they would do something useful once in a while and stop costing people matches.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 234	Posted - 2013.04.21 06:30:00 - [27] - Quote Anyone that thinks tanks are OP is bad. Yesterday my squad destroyed 3 tanks, 2 dropships and some lavs. Noone of usa was a specialist in AV, we just invested 175k sp in forge gun operation 3. Tanks die extremely fast if you actually bother to switch to av AND WORK WITH YOUR TEAM. Stop asking for tank nerfs, skill up "some" AV, get yourself a mic and form a squad. NO, you don't need to be in a corp to form a good squad, just ask in local if anyone with a mic want to team up. You are not supposed to be able to solo everything in this game ya know?
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 35	Posted - 2013.04.21 06:31:00 - [28] - Quote I always love it when people that don't spec into AV outside of standard AV grenades cry that tanks are OP and tankers with less than 2 million SP invested into HAV cry that they're UP. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69713&find=unread (post #15)
bumm baliste TTCorp 1	Posted - 2013.04.21 06:51:00 - [29] - Quote high end tanks are laughably UP if a team mounts any real AV. This is from a guy that doesn't use tanks.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2567	Posted - 2013.04.21 09:15:00 - [30] - Quote It's harder to kill a Prototype Assault with a non-Prototype AR than it is to kill a Prototype tank with a non-Prototype Forge Gun. Cut the top tier off of EVERYTHING. All Protogear is OP compared to non-Protogear. FIX IT NAO CCP! I DEMANDS THAT YOU MAKE ALL MONEYS WORTHLESS BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING THAT COSTS MORE THAN WE EARN IN A BATTLE!

boba's fetta Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc. Gathering Of Nomadic Explorers 22	Posted - 2013.04.21 11:57:00 - [31] - Quote ive been running with a advanced swarm launcher today. get height and you can keep the field clear of tanks lavs and drop ships. tanks are not op they go down pretty damm fast popped several with 3-4 volleys. installtions are laughably easy to take out. though supply depots and cru's are pain to take out due to there hp ammount.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2567	Posted - 2013.04.21 13:17:00 - [32] - Quote You know what would be a really awesome way to make sure tanks aren't OP? Make it so that you have to spend money to buy tanks, but can get a decent anti-tank Starter Fit. They could even have a starting class that's AV-oriented and has its own unique Starter that's also focused on the AV role. ... looks at the "Dire Sentinel" fit on one of his alts ... Oh. Right.
Medic 1879 The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 107	Posted - 2013.04.21 13:24:00 - [33] - Quote Me and a blueberry took out a Sagaris the other day, I said on team I have flux nades anyone have AV nades on one guy said yes I told him to meet me where the tank kept patroling when it came through I fluxed it he AV'd it he got the kill I got the assist. This tactic took all of about 30 seconds of co-ordination to set up. Tanks are not OP they just require team work an asset sorely lacking in most players.
Cal Predine StarKnight Security 38	Posted - 2013.04.21 13:50:00 - [34] - Quote I hear this a lot - tanks are OP/ no they're not, and then folks start getting offensive. Not good. And of course, it's all opinion. So let's try a subjective test, eh? Simply ask yourself these two questions... Is it common or possible for any one infantryman (or small group, let's say no more than three of them to keep things balanced) to skill and equip themselves in such a way that they dominate the field to the extent that it's just plain dull for all other players, both allied and opposing that individual or small team? Is it common or possible for any one vehicle crew (or crew in a single vehicle) to skill and equip themselves in such a way that they dominate the field to the extent that it's just plain dull for all other players, both allied to and opposing that vehicle. Now, I know what the answer to this question is, and I hope CCP has stats enough that they know too. If they're smart, they'll ignore all the self-serving noise we hear on the forums, and balance the game on these stats, so it's enjoyable and relevant for all players.


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