DUST Search - More Tank Less Gank

Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:

Jason Pearson wrote:

Once you've unlocked Proto Turrets on a tank, the only other vehicle that compete with you is another Tank with proto Turrets, the damage output is excessive but needed as we're paper. Make Turrets weaker, increase all resistances and HP for Vehicles, Don't get me wrong, I like dealing stupid amounts of damage to everything BUT it's not going to help down the road.

By making us more Tanky (For all vehicles) and lowering large turret damage, we make vehicles fairer to fight against as they won't two shot you, but makes it so a Forge Gun can't 3 shot you (They can at the moment). This also creates more interesting Vehicle fights.

I totally agree on that. I don't have proto turrets on my tank yet, and I already think that HAV don't need to deal so much dps. With enthusiasm, I remember my HAV's-beginnings. What I was liked most is that the HAV vs. HAV fight was longer than now. It's because I was dealing much less dps while using standard turrets and without that all skills bonuses. I do not like fact that proto armor tank with best tank in this game is dieing after 3 wave of proto swarms that is hitting his weak spot. They are just too expensive for that(in terms of their value, and time that you need to spend to skill them up).

Boost HAV's tanking ability and lower their dps. Do it to all HAV or just to specific types. I'm tired of having one Madruger per 4-5 matches because it is so expensive that I'm constantly broke. I want to have tank that I can use in every battle, and I don't want to be scare that I gone lose it in seconds.

A new skill system is coming to Dust and as Infantry I gone be a "cannon fodder" in matches when I gone be to broke to buy new HAV. Thats gonna be unfair, Infantry will have starter-dropsuits that cost 0 ISK, and all they skills apply to them, so they gone be much better in that militia stuff than any other vehicle pilot.

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Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 865	Posted - 2013.04.20 05:17:00 - [1] - Quote Once you've unlocked Proto Turrets on a tank, the only other vehicle that compete with you is another Tank with proto Turrets, the damage output is excessive but needed as we're paper. Make Turrets weaker, increase all resistances and HP for Vehicles, Don't get me wrong, I like dealing stupid amounts of damage to everything BUT it's not going to help down the road. By making us more Tanky (For all vehicles) and lowering large turret damage, we make vehicles fairer to fight against as they won't two shot you, but makes it so a Forge Gun can't 3 shot you (They can at the moment). This also creates more interesting Vehicle fights.
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 316	Posted - 2013.04.20 05:27:00 - [2] - Quote No. Turrets should be powerful, otherwise we should just be allowed to shoot assault rifles out the sides of vehicles.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 865	Posted - 2013.04.20 05:30:00 - [3] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: No. Turrets should be powerful, otherwise we should just be allowed to shoot assault rifles out the sides of vehicles. Because one shotting an installation is okay. lolrail Because three shotting a heavy is even better. lolblaster Two Shotting a 2mil tank is perfectly legit. lolrail What I'm suggesting is making us stronger in exchange for our excessive damage, which is truly ridiculous.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 28	Posted - 2013.04.20 05:45:00 - [4] - Quote You have to take into account how the game has changed from what was intended to be and what has become. Heavies for example were meant to be AV specialists that could go toe-to-toe with vehicles. That's why they used to have such an insanely high EHP. Now, post nerf bat, they're still a foce to be reckoned with, but require more skill. Depending on what initial roles HAV were designed to fulfill compared to how we use them, adjustments will be made over time for balancing purposes.
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD 342	Posted - 2013.04.20 06:36:00 - [5] - Quote So Jason, exactly what smacked you? The combination seems fine as it is. Taking out Installations requires enough firepower to do it and it much harder if the turret has an operator. Militia Tanks are paper. Yep. It is difficult for me to guess what you want? If you want to turn this into endless tank wars then ... no thanks. If not, then what are you after anyway?
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 232	Posted - 2013.04.20 06:37:00 - [6] - Quote Are you using damage mods? I've read that tank damage mods give 2x the bonus they should give: the 10% is giving 20% That could be the problem.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 865	Posted - 2013.04.20 07:18:00 - [7] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: So Jason, exactly what smacked you? The combination seems fine as it is. Taking out Installations requires enough firepower to do it and it much harder if the turret has an operator. Militia Tanks are paper. Yep. It is difficult for me to guess what you want? If you want to turn this into endless tank wars then ... no thanks. If not, then what are you after anyway? Smacked me? No no no. This is not me crying because I've been killed, fact is when I'm in a rail tank I only die to enemy rail tanks or an OB. I one shot Installations, I rolled up next to a sagaris and two shotted that. I two shot any Bolas that flies in. The only thing to offer a challenge is another rail tank. In a blaster tank, anything that doesn't have an Ion cannon or proto rail dies. Your comment about the Installations taking enough firepower to kill? If anything they're ridiculous UP in terms of HP, very weak and require no effort. The only worrying thing is a Railgun turret overlooking a good open area, and that's if I'm running a blaster tank. I'm actually asking for a nerf in exchange for a buff (Very uncommon request I know), I would like to see a lower damage output for the Blaster and Railgun turrets in exchange for a buff to Shield/Armor modules making us less able to go 30/0 in a single game but more capable to survive. In PC Blaster Tanks aren't going to be a good idea, it's going to be all about railguns, anyone can see that. Nerfing the damage output and increasing tanking capability makes us more useful in CQC so we can actually support out team instead of having a single rail tank dominating the vehicle side of the match.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1261	Posted - 2013.04.20 08:29:00 - [8] - Quote problem is when you give more tank then they become more effective against infantry and people complain even more why their militia swarms doesnt 1 shot a sagaris.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 865	Posted - 2013.04.20 08:44:00 - [9] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: problem is when you give more tank then they become more effective against infantry and people complain even more why their militia swarms doesnt 1 shot a sagaris. Aye, always going to be like this xD But if we reduce the effectiveness of our weapons, making us more of a Support Vehicle (Instead of a massive killing machine that we love). So we're still capable killers, we're not as strong but we're good at being a target and Tanking damage
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 77	Posted - 2013.04.20 09:47:00 - [10] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: problem is when you give more tank then they become more effective against infantry and people complain even more why their militia swarms doesnt 1 shot a sagaris. Someone else suggested reducing tank damage output, AND AV capability + HAV tanking ability.

Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 517	Posted - 2013.04.20 10:39:00 - [11] - Quote Show me on this doll where the turret touched you.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 255	Posted - 2013.04.20 10:40:00 - [12] - Quote You would have to reduce the damage that AV does then I dont want my rail to go from 2 shot to 6 shot but AV stay at 3shot against a Sagaris and 2 proto swarm volleys against a Surya
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 165	Posted - 2013.04.20 13:25:00 - [13] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You would have to reduce the damage that AV does then I dont want my rail to go from 2 shot to 6 shot but AV stay at 3shot against a Sagaris and 2 proto swarm volleys against a Surya He said increase tank hp, which does the same thing.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 255	Posted - 2013.04.20 13:27:00 - [14] - Quote slypie11 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You would have to reduce the damage that AV does then I dont want my rail to go from 2 shot to 6 shot but AV stay at 3shot against a Sagaris and 2 proto swarm volleys against a Surya He said increase tank hp, which does the same thing.
Charlotte O'Dell Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 128	Posted - 2013.04.20 14:10:00 - [15] - Quote http://www.reddit.com/r/dust514/comments/1ckz34/dust_514_developer_ama/c9j2cax Tanks are completely broken- Yesterday, to create a tank that could survive more than 3 minutes in open combat, without retreating to the red line to snipe, I had to lay down 3 azeotropic shield extenders, 2 heavy azeotropic shield extenders, and 3 local PG upgrades, coming out to a total just under 10,000. I am NO scrub tanker, and I was still getting wrecked on the basis that I had to give up and ability to damage other tanks, regen, or move fast (Yes, I use a keyboard). A tank shouldnt have to give up everything to be a true tank. People complain about railgun snipers, but then ask to buff AV/nerf tanks, more. I, and the rest of the truly skilled tanking community, have found that railgun sniping is the only way to make a profit with tanks in pub matches, without pulling Suryas and Sagarises, which give anyone without Ishukones and Gastun's a chance in hell of getting a single kill, and if we lose one of those, we're set back about a week for ISK. AV needs a serious nerf, or ALL vehicles need a huge buff because as of now, only proto tanks running a full tanked fit can survive more than 5 seconds (bc assault forge charge time is 2.5) in the open. Vehicles will be the main players draining the money from Eve because every other type of merc (except, maybe, the heavy), is able to support themselves running proto in every match. Face it, CCP: you're making tanks obsolete.
Den-tredje Baron The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1	Posted - 2013.04.20 14:22:00 - [16] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Once you've unlocked Proto Turrets on a tank, the only other vehicle that compete with you is another Tank with proto Turrets, the damage output is excessive but needed as we're paper. Make Turrets weaker, increase all resistances and HP for Vehicles, Don't get me wrong, I like dealing stupid amounts of damage to everything BUT it's not going to help down the road. By making us more Tanky (For all vehicles) and lowering large turret damage, we make vehicles fairer to fight against as they won't two shot you, but makes it so a Forge Gun can't 3 shot you (They can at the moment). This also creates more interesting Vehicle fights. I kind of like this idea. instead of having tanks being useless paper weights who when they have pi**** the enemy team of enough will become hunted like a boston bomber ( yeah well only thing i could think about sorry for if stepping on toes ) With a buff to armor/shield (maybe even adding so that the specific HAV skill will increase the passiv resist of the respective tank with 3% per level ?? ) and a decrease to damage output a railgun tank won't be a dominating bastard who will be hated just as much as an obese sniper. This way heavies will also regain some of their purposed job as they won't get one shot when they pop out of cover to shot at a tank. But they're gonna have to pop out more often as the tank is buffer.
Charlotte O'Dell Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 129	Posted - 2013.04.20 15:34:00 - [17] - Quote so you want a heavy to have 5000 HP or a rail to do 1000dps? please clarify bc you're absolutely ridiculous. if my 2,500,000 isk cannon cant take out a 200,000 isk suit, then this game is pointless and broken.
Charlotte O'Dell Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 129	Posted - 2013.04.20 15:37:00 - [18] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: slypie11 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You would have to reduce the damage that AV does then I dont want my rail to go from 2 shot to 6 shot but AV stay at 3shot against a Sagaris and 2 proto swarm volleys against a Surya He said increase tank hp, which does the same thing. Yea but if the FG goes from 2 to 3shot is an improvement but not much of one for the tank forges should come NOWHERE NEAR rails as far as DPS is concerned. Rails should be the ultimate AV weapon on all fronts. Forges are extremely cheap by comparison and pop proto tanks in 2 hits- proto swarms are no different.
Aythadis Smith The Generals EoN. 4	Posted - 2013.04.20 16:19:00 - [19] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: slypie11 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You would have to reduce the damage that AV does then I dont want my rail to go from 2 shot to 6 shot but AV stay at 3shot against a Sagaris and 2 proto swarm volleys against a Surya He said increase tank hp, which does the same thing. Yea but if the FG goes from 2 to 3shot is an improvement but not much of one for the tank forges should come NOWHERE NEAR rails as far as DPS is concerned. Rails should be the ultimate AV weapon on all fronts. Forges are extremely cheap by comparison and pop proto tanks in 2 hits- proto swarms are no different. Hate to break it but...noticed.... most of our tank and gear capped at 3rd tier? While every one else gets 5? You need shields at 3 to get the best. Or anything in armor. Once you get 3rd tier, the rest is just a percent bonus. Our tanks stop at 3rd too. No 4th or 5th. Just saying. So.... in a way, it is like a Duv not being able to take out say...A series Assault. Hell, lets up the ante. A Officer Assault ( you guys pick) vs a B series suit. Or again, A series. But...he is only using extended shields. nothing above 3rd tier. The Proto Assault rifle will cut him down. Also, you copy and pasted that same line, about 5 up, in 4 different places. If you honestly need help, I'll group with you tonight and you can ride in my toy. But if you kids keep this up with the nerf wheel, we'll just have another clone of some other game. Personally, I went here because it was different. Half of you want it the same as every one else. Also, I do feel a forge does out perform a rail. Personal thought.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 256	Posted - 2013.04.20 16:27:00 - [20] - Quote FG do out damage railguns at base value which shouldnt happen Plus we dont have proto tanks either

Ops Fox ZionTCD 211	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:45:00 - [21] - Quote Personally I think tanks could use a slight buff to HP and heavies should have their own HP increased by the same percent. If you nerf turrent damage nerf Av damage by the same percent. While i do think tanks seem off and I would rather have something that can take hits and lead a charge I dont think you should change one side with out changing the other. So buff tank Hp and heavies HP by the same percent. If you do nerf turret damage nerf AV damage by the same percent, I would rather higher HP than attack on my tanks rather than what we got now. We should be looking at the numbers for medium teir tanks and weapons you cant compare the best equipment as the standard you must look at the average equipment your basic and advanced gear not your proto.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative 177	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:23:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: FG do out damage railguns at base value which shouldnt happen Plus we dont have proto tanks either actually we do... look at surya/sagaris in combat-PRO as in prototype
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 313	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:55:00 - [23] - Quote Tanks are gimped. I almost never use them anymore. People cried and cried about how OP they were and it worked; any merc with half a brain and no extra chromosomes can now single handedly fight off even the best tanks. I've zero respect for anyone crying about tanks at this point.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative 181	Posted - 2013.04.20 23:29:00 - [24] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: Tanks are gimped. I almost never use them anymore. People cried and cried about how OP they were and it worked; any merc with half a brain and no extra chromosomes can now single handedly fight off even the best tanks. I've zero respect for anyone crying about tanks at this point. I do agree with you on that point.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 871	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:05:00 - [25] - Quote As I said, nerfing the damage so that we are still capable of killing yet being viewed more as support weapons (unless theres a whole column riding up a road, that **** would be scary) and buffing our HP (and resists) so that we take longer to kill creates a balance where it isn't a must to kill the enemy tank, but killing it would be pretty damn beneficial to your team. Keep AV Weapons where they're at, Forge Guns need to have the same output as Railguns imo. With this buff and nerf, it means we don't have to mess around with AV weapons, all vehicles could actually get a buff tbh, make them stronger so they can survive.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 270	Posted - 2013.04.22 19:17:00 - [26] - Quote ladwar wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: FG do out damage railguns at base value which shouldnt happen Plus we dont have proto tanks either actually we do... look at surya/sagaris in combat-PRO as in prototype For the price hike and general tank increase its not proto Compare to the dropsuit way milita>basic>advanced>proto Tanks dont have the last link and AUR and PSN store tanks do not fill that gap either At best they are advanced
Texs Red SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 18	Posted - 2013.04.22 21:26:00 - [27] - Quote In tank to tank battle a good railgun tank will beat a blaster one every time. In EVE railguns deal less damage in exchange for distance (and are less effective at close range) where blasters have great DPS but crappy range, in Dust railguns have you could want except fire rate. I suggest that railgun damage be toned down with a slightly lower rate of fire but have the ability to shoot more shots before overheating and give blasters a notable increase in damage. As for AV, I think the forge gun is a little off. If, for no other reason, it deals only slightly less than railgun damage on an infantry platform. I mean if shooting the 80 GJ (which is gigajoules, and I believe that kind of energy could send a projectile from the west coast of the USA to Ireland in under a second) railgun on my several ton tank causes it to sway how is a infantry shooting an slightly weaker hand-held version without it ripping his arms off and flying through the air?
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. CRONOS. 44	Posted - 2013.04.22 22:59:00 - [28] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Once you've unlocked Proto Turrets on a tank, the only other vehicle that compete with you is another Tank with proto Turrets, the damage output is excessive but needed as we're paper. Make Turrets weaker, increase all resistances and HP for Vehicles, Don't get me wrong, I like dealing stupid amounts of damage to everything BUT it's not going to help down the road. By making us more Tanky (For all vehicles) and lowering large turret damage, we make vehicles fairer to fight against as they won't two shot you, but makes it so a Forge Gun can't 3 shot you (They can at the moment). This also creates more interesting Vehicle fights. I totally agree on that. I don't have proto turrets on my tank yet, and I already think that HAV don't need to deal so much dps. With enthusiasm, I remember my HAV's-beginnings. What I was liked most is that the HAV vs. HAV fight was longer than now. It's because I was dealing much less dps while using standard turrets and without that all skills bonuses. I do not like fact that proto armor tank with best tank in this game is dieing after 3 wave of proto swarms that is hitting his weak spot. They are just too expensive for that(in terms of their value, and time that you need to spend to skill them up). Boost HAV's tanking ability and lower their dps. Do it to all HAV or just to specific types. I'm tired of having one Madruger per 4-5 matches because it is so expensive that I'm constantly broke. I want to have tank that I can use in every battle, and I don't want to be scare that I gone lose it in seconds. A new skill system is coming to Dust and as Infantry I gone be a "cannon fodder" in matches when I gone be to broke to buy new HAV. Thats gonna be unfair, Infantry will have starter-dropsuits that cost 0 ISK, and all they skills apply to them, so they gone be much better in that militia stuff than any other vehicle pilot.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 184	Posted - 2013.04.22 23:02:00 - [29] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Once you've unlocked Proto Turrets on a tank, the only other vehicle that compete with you is another Tank with proto Turrets, the damage output is excessive but needed as we're paper. Make Turrets weaker, increase all resistances and HP for Vehicles, Don't get me wrong, I like dealing stupid amounts of damage to everything BUT it's not going to help down the road. By making us more Tanky (For all vehicles) and lowering large turret damage, we make vehicles fairer to fight against as they won't two shot you, but makes it so a Forge Gun can't 3 shot you (They can at the moment). This also creates more interesting Vehicle fights. I totally agree on that. I don't have proto turrets on my tank yet, and I already think that HAV don't need to deal so much dps. With enthusiasm, I remember my HAV's-beginnings. What I was liked most is that the HAV vs. HAV fight was longer than now. It's because I was dealing much less dps while using standard turrets and without that all skills bonuses. I do not like fact that proto armor tank with best tank in this game is dieing after 3 wave of proto swarms that is hitting his weak spot. They are just too expensive for that(in terms of their value, and time that you need to spend to skill them up). Boost HAV's tanking ability and lower their dps. Do it to all HAV or just to specific types. I'm tired of having one Madruger per 4-5 matches because it is so expensive that I'm constantly broke. I want to have tank that I can use in every battle, and I don't want to be scare that I gone lose it in seconds. A new skill system is coming to Dust and as Infantry I gone be a "cannon fodder" in matches when I gone be to broke to buy new HAV. Thats gonna be unfair, Infantry will have starter-dropsuits that cost 0 ISK, and all they skills apply to them, so they gone be much better in that militia stuff than any other vehicle pilot. And lower the dps of blaster turrets outside of optimal range. They're supposed to be short range, so why am I getting killed from so far away.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative 201	Posted - 2013.04.22 23:06:00 - [30] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: ladwar wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: FG do out damage railguns at base value which shouldnt happen Plus we dont have proto tanks either actually we do... look at surya/sagaris in combat-PRO as in prototype For the price hike and general tank increase its not proto Compare to the dropsuit way milita>basic>advanced>proto Tanks dont have the last link and AUR and PSN store tanks do not fill that gap either At best they are advanced militia>militia tanks basic>PSN tanks advanced> your gunn/mad tanks proto> surya/saragis hm i see it how can't you?



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