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iLLMaTiC619
KiLo.
50
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Posted - 2013.04.22 02:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Adstellarum wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:iLLMaTiC619 wrote:takes no skill to use them.. You want something that takes no skill to use? Assault rifles. Doesn't matter how you play, if you spray enough bullets at someone's general direction, they are going to die. The same cannot be said for any other weapon. yea especially with Hip firing being 100% hit rate too as long as the reticule is orange/red they hit
I agree there needs to be some bulliet physics or bulliet drop off.. they need to change/improve alot of things on this game
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
885
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Posted - 2013.04.22 05:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
There are (afaik) a few known mechanical issues with the LR currently. This being the case a fix to those bugs should come first. Even in their present state however I have used completely free scout suit to run down the active beam of a LR and then kill it's user. These haven't even been defense or speed spec'ed suits (both of which would help).
The major "balance" issue the LR has (outside of the bugs) is that it's optimal effective range makes it a good 'rock' to the 'scissors' of the AR, so I must once again suggest using the 'paper' of a free scout suit it's worked for me ~3/5 times and I haven't even optimized one to the purpose yet (nor do I have the best gun game out there so it's not a question of player skill in this case... tho I hope someday to be skilled enough that my final point no longer stands ).
Cheers, Cross |
Mark0h
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
1
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Posted - 2013.04.22 06:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Know whats hard about getting to the LR user to negate his range? The building hes on that has a mob of reds near him, makes it a little more challenging. Although, a good sniper bullet usually does the trick.
But seriously, LR are just so suppressing. A few good LR users can pin down a group of people so easily, its damn scary. Ya cant escape it!!!
The mitigation of laser damage against armor seems non-existent. Good luck trying to test it. Ive never been able to convince a red to just take it easy and let me crunch these numbers. All I know is that my armor seems to go down just as quickly as my shields when I am under the smelting lazor el doom. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
548
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Posted - 2013.04.22 11:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
Let me ask you a question. Is a weapon that can just swipe in your general direction for a milisecond and take down 550HP in a single swipe, not overpowered? Also, its rewarding missing, lolwat. |
Taurion Bruni
COSMIC CHAOS 420
0
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Posted - 2013.04.22 11:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
if you want to take on the laser riffle, you need to get the advantage of it. Try using a sniper riffle, or even flanking the gunner to get up right behind him, and take him out instantly. People in this game need to understand that an LAV cannot take out a Tank, or an assault will not fare well against a heavy on his own. All of the guns in this game have a certain attribute that makes them Op at their optimal conditions. but if you work around it, you can still win. take a heavy vs assault, if you can get out of the Heavy Machine Gun's range, the player becomes a sitting duck. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
548
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Posted - 2013.04.22 11:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
Taurion Bruni wrote:if you want to take on the laser riffle, you need to get the advantage of it. Try using a sniper riffle, or even flanking the gunner to get up right behind him, and take him out instantly. People in this game need to understand that an LAV cannot take out a Tank, or an assault will not fare well against a heavy on his own. All of the guns in this game have a certain attribute that makes them Op at their optimal conditions. but if you work around it, you can still win. take a heavy vs assault, if you can get out of the Heavy Machine Gun's range, the player becomes a sitting duck. No weapon can destroy you instantly without even having to aim, just swipe over you. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
760
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Posted - 2013.04.22 19:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lasers are easy to counter if you take the time to figure out how.
it's hilarious when you get in close to them. I love jumping in a laser player's face at point blank, taking four full seconds of letting him shoot me, then gutting him with an HMG. or a nova knife. or a shotgun.
They can not only be countered, but countered EASILY.
Get those two brain cells rubbing together to generate enough friction to figure out how. Trust me. It's worth the thought.
In fact, thinking about how to solve a problem is usually better than rushing the target in general. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
89
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Posted - 2013.04.22 19:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Taurion Bruni wrote:if you want to take on the laser riffle, you need to get the advantage of it. Try using a sniper riffle, or even flanking the gunner to get up right behind him, and take him out instantly. People in this game need to understand that an LAV cannot take out a Tank, or an assault will not fare well against a heavy on his own. All of the guns in this game have a certain attribute that makes them Op at their optimal conditions. but if you work around it, you can still win. take a heavy vs assault, if you can get out of the Heavy Machine Gun's range, the player becomes a sitting duck. No weapon can destroy you instantly without even having to aim, just swipe over you.
This idea of instant kill swipes happening all the time is a myth. It's not like you can immediately do that - it only happens on the highest charge levels, unless it's a viziam. Have you actually used a laser? |
Charlotte O'Dell
Faabulous
133
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Posted - 2013.04.22 19:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
Reduce dmg vs armor 25%. |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD
212
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Posted - 2013.04.22 21:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Just make it so the damage build up is dependant on keeping on target rather than the heat build up, which is more realistic anyway. |
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Godin Thekiller
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
41
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Posted - 2013.04.23 00:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
iLLMaTiC619 wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:iLLMaTiC619 wrote:takes no skill to use them.. You want something that takes no skill to use? Assault rifles. Doesn't matter how you play, if you spray enough bullets at someone's general direction, they are going to die. The same cannot be said for any other weapon. I think Laser guns( me and my corp call them dildo guns) are overpowered, takes no skill to use just spray them across the sky and you kill people.. I think AR like douvelles etc are strong but atleast takes skill to use them.. sniping people across the map is another story
I think its funny that you think AR's, especially PROTO ones take skill
Peace, Godin |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD
767
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Posted - 2013.04.23 04:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
iLLMaTiC619 wrote:so tired of playing matches and it's lookin like you are in some club with laser lights going off everywhere. Nerf or get rid of them all together.. takes no skill to use them.
too over powered .. .........GǪGǪGǪGǪGǪ..............no I'd like to get rid of the whiney b!tches in here though. That would make me as happy as a gay dude with two a$$holes and a bag full of d!cks |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2581
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Posted - 2013.04.23 10:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
They only have one Laser that's OP, and that's because it has about 25% more damage than it's meant to, which was a typo and will be fixed in Uprising.
Next "problem"? |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
561
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Posted - 2013.04.23 11:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Taurion Bruni wrote:if you want to take on the laser riffle, you need to get the advantage of it. Try using a sniper riffle, or even flanking the gunner to get up right behind him, and take him out instantly. People in this game need to understand that an LAV cannot take out a Tank, or an assault will not fare well against a heavy on his own. All of the guns in this game have a certain attribute that makes them Op at their optimal conditions. but if you work around it, you can still win. take a heavy vs assault, if you can get out of the Heavy Machine Gun's range, the player becomes a sitting duck. No weapon can destroy you instantly without even having to aim, just swipe over you. This idea of instant kill swipes happening all the time is a myth. It's not like you can immediately do that - it only happens on the highest charge levels, unless it's a viziam. Have you actually used a laser? A. A myth? You mean like the minimum of 25 times I died by a swiping laser is a myth? All in an advanced or proto suit fully tanked.
B. And? Once you do charge it up the DPS is insane.
C. I used a standard laser with a militia damage upgrade. After a few matches of total domination I felt dirty using it so I stopped. |
Muramasa Armads
Defensores Doctrina
4
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Posted - 2013.04.23 14:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
The Laser Rifle is definitely overpowered, but it doesnGÇÖt need to be taken out of Dust 514. The Viziam laser rifle is scary with its unbelievable range and power. If you stack damage mods it can melt a prototype Heavy in a matter of seconds. The most broken feature of the laser rifle is its insane range rather than power. If someone raises their light weapon sharp shooter to proficiency they can literally snipe people with a laser rifle. I see some posters have said that itGÇÖs easy to flank laser rifle users, but in my experience that is not true. Most laser rifle users are usually very difficult to reach because they are usually hanging out in large packs or are up on top of buildings that can only be accessed by climbing up one ladder. If you try to approach a laser rifle user by LAV it can be risky because they usually throw AV grenades at you when you get near them.
If the rumors about light weapon sharp shooter being removed are true then I donGÇÖt think we will have to worry about Laser Rifles too much next build. If you take away the possibility of getting all that additional range along with the Viziam laser rifle being returned back to 15 base power, then those tweaks alone will diminish the tremendous advantage laser rifles have right now. I do think CCP should make it harder for Laser Rifles to punch through armor because no other infantry weapon destroys both shields and armor with such ease.
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
886
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Posted - 2013.04.23 15:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
What mode/modes are people playing? When are your play times? What SP totals (or ballpark) are you running with and how much of that is in defense and mobility skills?
I ask because I play both Skirmish and OMS extensively (I average multiple games per day from last build until present) and there have only had 3 games were the LR was a major/dominant factor (I've had many more with LR on the field but they weren't a big deal). 2 of those games were against the same squad on the same day and it was laser rifles plural (and coordinated) the other instance was against Sir Knight (who consistently goes 27/1 or better, in his case it's the player not the weapon, much like Exmaple or Sleepy Zan).
So, I'd like to hone in on the specifics we're all dealing with, I've shared my experiences, please provide details on your (note: for the purposes of balance declarative statements aren't actionable and should be avoided, without details most of the information is functionally meaningless.)
Cheers, Cross
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Dezus 1000
Reaper Galactic
14
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Posted - 2013.04.23 15:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
The laser rifle only seems overpowered because some maps, and positions, strongly cater to them. Given they only are good in a certain number of specific situations, if they are nerfed they will become useless. So it would be best to remove them instead of nerfing, but I don't recommend either. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1333
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Posted - 2013.04.23 16:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Taurion Bruni wrote:if you want to take on the laser riffle, you need to get the advantage of it. Try using a sniper riffle, or even flanking the gunner to get up right behind him, and take him out instantly. People in this game need to understand that an LAV cannot take out a Tank, or an assault will not fare well against a heavy on his own. All of the guns in this game have a certain attribute that makes them Op at their optimal conditions. but if you work around it, you can still win. take a heavy vs assault, if you can get out of the Heavy Machine Gun's range, the player becomes a sitting duck. No weapon can destroy you instantly without even having to aim, just swipe over you. This idea of instant kill swipes happening all the time is a myth. It's not like you can immediately do that - it only happens on the highest charge levels, unless it's a viziam. Have you actually used a laser? A. A myth? You mean like the minimum of 25 times I died by a swiping laser is a myth? All in an advanced or proto suit fully tanked. B. And? Once you do charge it up the DPS is insane. C. I used a standard laser with a militia damage upgrade. After a few matches of total domination I felt dirty using it so I stopped. The only change the laser rifle needs, other than a fix to the bugged Viziam, is to have the damage increase be applied based on time-on-target rather than time spent firing. That way the only way to get kills with it is to keep the beam on the target, dramatically raising the skill ceiling of the weapon and rewarding good tracking skills while penalizing those who charge-and-swipe right now. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
561
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
Came back from a match, using the ELM-7 + 3x complex damage mods, I got in 5 minutes left on the match and got 10 kills with zero deaths in that amount of time. I would get more if I could find enemies, they were constantly bugging out when they saw my laser. From my testing I got these results: Holding the R1 button for 1 sec gives you DPS that can melt people pretty quickly. Holding the R1 button for 2 seconds starts going into the insane zone. Getting close to max heat, I destroyed a proto heavy before he could blink. >_> Also, swiping happened left and right, so yeah. |
Mark0h
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
1
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
lol @ swiping doesn't work. How can any laser user honestly think they have always, 100% of the time, killed someone with a perfect focused beam, on the target, the whole damn time. Lies i tell you, LIES! |
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
294
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Posted - 2013.04.24 01:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Dezus 1000 wrote:The laser rifle only seems overpowered because some maps, and positions, strongly cater to them. Given they only are good in a certain number of specific situations, if they are nerfed they will become useless. So it would be best to remove them instead of nerfing, but I don't recommend either. QFT |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
196
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Posted - 2013.04.24 01:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Time to add my 2 isk on to this budding threadnaught. Honestly, the laser rifle is overpowered, but it shouldn't be drastically nerfed like some people are suggesting. Every time someone gets mad at a weapon, they want to nerf it to the ground, so that it no longer can be used effectively. Here are my fixes.
1. Fix the Viziam and the Elm
2. Increase starting damage, reduce damage at full heat, so no more melting heavies.
3. decrease max range, reduce ineffective close ranges.
In my opinion, adding heat up ties to time on target shouldn't happen. In my experience, it was near impossible to keep the laser on target. Stopped using LRs after that, so maybe I just didn't have enough practice. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1334
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:Time to add my 2 isk on to this budding threadnaught. Honestly, the laser rifle is overpowered, but it shouldn't be drastically nerfed like some people are suggesting. Every time someone gets mad at a weapon, they want to nerf it to the ground, so that it no longer can be used effectively. Here are my fixes.
1. Fix the Viziam and the Elm
2. Increase starting damage, reduce damage at full heat, so no more melting heavies.
3. decrease max range, reduce ineffective close ranges.
In my opinion, adding heat up ties to time on target shouldn't happen. In my experience, it was near impossible to keep the laser on target. Stopped using LRs after that, so maybe I just didn't have enough practice. I'm telling you, just have the damage build up be based on staying on the target rather than heat level, and every single problem stated here will just go away. I guarantee it. |
Beld Errmon
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
577
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Posted - 2013.04.24 01:57:00 -
[54] - Quote
heh bunch of whingers, you spend a bit of time on the arse end of the laser in its optimal situation and get pwned, just like the laser user gets pwned if an AR user gets up close, only reason you want it nerfed is because it kills you at range, chances are you chuck tantrums whenever a sniper headshots you too. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
294
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:slypie11 wrote:Time to add my 2 isk on to this budding threadnaught. Honestly, the laser rifle is overpowered, but it shouldn't be drastically nerfed like some people are suggesting. Every time someone gets mad at a weapon, they want to nerf it to the ground, so that it no longer can be used effectively. Here are my fixes.
1. Fix the Viziam and the Elm
2. Increase starting damage, reduce damage at full heat, so no more melting heavies.
3. decrease max range, reduce ineffective close ranges.
In my opinion, adding heat up ties to time on target shouldn't happen. In my experience, it was near impossible to keep the laser on target. Stopped using LRs after that, so maybe I just didn't have enough practice. I'm telling you, just have the damage build up be based on staying on the target rather than heat level, and every single problem stated here will just go away. I guarantee it. And so will the weapon. |
Beld Errmon
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
578
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Posted - 2013.04.24 02:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
Its funny though the weapon to my knowledge hasn't been changed since it so introduced ages ago, but only recently have people been getting upset about it, which leads me to believe its the skill of the people that have mastered the weapon that upsets people the most, not that they will acknowledge a laser user having skill.
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slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
197
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Posted - 2013.04.24 02:13:00 -
[57] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:heh bunch of whingers, you spend a bit of time on the arse end of the laser in its optimal situation and get pwned, just like the laser user gets pwned if an AR user gets up close, only reason you want it nerfed is because it kills you at range, chances are you chuck tantrums whenever a sniper headshots you too. whats a whinger. Are you calling us wingers? Is that some british thing? |
Beld Errmon
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
578
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:30:00 -
[58] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:heh bunch of whingers, you spend a bit of time on the arse end of the laser in its optimal situation and get pwned, just like the laser user gets pwned if an AR user gets up close, only reason you want it nerfed is because it kills you at range, chances are you chuck tantrums whenever a sniper headshots you too. whats a whinger. Are you calling us wingers? Is that some british thing?
http://lmgtfy.com/ |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1334
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Posted - 2013.04.24 04:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:slypie11 wrote:Time to add my 2 isk on to this budding threadnaught. Honestly, the laser rifle is overpowered, but it shouldn't be drastically nerfed like some people are suggesting. Every time someone gets mad at a weapon, they want to nerf it to the ground, so that it no longer can be used effectively. Here are my fixes.
1. Fix the Viziam and the Elm
2. Increase starting damage, reduce damage at full heat, so no more melting heavies.
3. decrease max range, reduce ineffective close ranges.
In my opinion, adding heat up ties to time on target shouldn't happen. In my experience, it was near impossible to keep the laser on target. Stopped using LRs after that, so maybe I just didn't have enough practice. I'm telling you, just have the damage build up be based on staying on the target rather than heat level, and every single problem stated here will just go away. I guarantee it. And so will the weapon. Okay, explain to me how making the damage increase be more skill based with break the weapon? |
Jotun Hiem
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
537
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Posted - 2013.04.24 05:39:00 -
[60] - Quote
The problem is just how open most of the maps are combined with wonkey spawn points that place players right in the middle of nowhere.
That one map that's dominated by the giant tower is probably the worst offender here. A skilled LR player can lock down three separate spawn locations from the central platform because they all spawn in the middle of nowhere in full view of the thing. |
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