The Codewish Duvolle TAR
The Schizm repair tool
The Spitfire SMG
The Tether Shield regulator
My personal fave - The Abyss drop uplink (seriously, check out the stat difference on that one)

And let us not forget the the 3 Proto damage mods

Trolls, I think you had a valid point in the possibility of an indirect RL cash -> Clones trading chain.|

You accidentally posted a pay to win thread, though.

Plex and Aurum are there precisely to make it less atractive to use indirect rl cash to play Dust and EVE.

How do you mean?

Again, i fail to see where the p2w part is.

The items you mentioned are either crappier than the ISK variant ones, or they-¦rethe same stats, but less CPU/PG requirements, and those with a high sp character are not relevant, for they may fit the same fitting with the appropriate skills.

Oh, i was talking about RMT.

But at the Clone pack issue, what-¦s th epoint of spending a lot of real money to buy a lot of clones, if you won-¦t be able to store them all, or use them frequently or simultaniously? (Limited by time and personel factors)

Proof lies with the claimer.

Unless of course, it-¦s classical misdirection, and the whole purpose is to create confusion and spread misinformation, then it would be better not to use factual data.



No sane person would let a good commercial opportunity go when they see one. If i have the real cash, and i can convert it in a lot of ingame cash, why wouldn-¦t i?

Pay$10 to buy a thing that you won-¦t use, sell it for 100 hours of gameplay ingame cash. Depending on how much you make an hour in rl money, it-¦s quite a bargain.

I do not think you have actually thought this through to the end game. In order to use the P2W modules you need to be at the max skill level. So it creates fittings that are only possible with Aurum items equipped. I'll show you, and you can do the figuring out for yourself.

First, lets get you to the Dust Fitting Tool:

Dust Fitting Tool

Make a copy(in the file menu in Google docs), and then you can edit the doc and follow along with me. Top centre there is a drop down menu with the list of starter fits, scroll down and select ALL LVL 5.


So now you have max skills, lets have you be an anti tank killing machine. Select a heavy proto suit.

Now, you take your proto suit out, and you equip:

2 x Complex Armor Plate
1 x Locus Grenade
1 x Ishukone Assault Forge Gun
1 x Ishukone Assault Submachine Gun

Next, try and equip three complex damage mods.

Fitting invalid.

Now try and fit either three 'Seismic' Heavy Damage mods, and presto, it just fits.

So there you have a fitting that is only possible with aurum items.

Keep in mind this problem actually gets WORSE for the other stuff, because this particular fit can't even take advantage of the boost offered by the regulators, the hives, the rep tool, etc.

How about a VK 1 glass cannon fit:

4 x complex damage mods -23 cpu each
2 x complex regulators -11 cpu each

Just on those alone using the Aurum items saves you 114 CPU. That is enough to run proto needles and hives. And a really nice grenade.

That is with MAX skills. Those are very tangible benefits.

Clearly, those goods are of a higher quality to their ISK counter parts. They are only available for RL money, and as such are supremacy goods.

Now, even if you don't want to call that P2W, it is certainly accurate that it is a far more flexible option to take advantage of, almost regardless of fit.

So, I cannot be any more clear on how the status of things are right now.

Maybe these things will change in the next build, maybe they won't. All I know is that since I first took notice of this, there have been more of these types of goods added to the market. Interpret that how ever you like.

What this comes down to is semantics. Either you call it P2W, or you call them supremacy goods, it is all the same thing. A tiered playing field. One for real money players, one for freebies. And that is precisely what CCP said the game would not be.

Now, I encourage you to play around with these items on the dust fitting tool. Use the sidearm or heavy damage aurum mod if you need to substitute for the newly added light complex damage mod. See what types of Aurum only fits you can create with the skills you actually have. See how to make it work for you.

You should understand that the people you play against already know this stuff, they just don't want to share their preferred proto fits. These types of fits will be used against you in PC.

Ok this was a troll post but I'll point out the principle issue behing it that is not discussed here thoroughly.

Planet warfare is isk warfare. Clones can be bought with isk, infrastructure can be bought with isk. A p2w corp will have a huge advantage by having its players use aurum gear and donate the isk savings for expansion.

This is not an issue in EVE, because items are player made and aurum only buys game time or makeover. However, the aurum gear in dust essentially means that there can never be functional player manufactured industry, because it has to compete with p2w. This, to me, also means the two economies should never be linked because dust ISK is regulated by p2w while EVE isk is not.

I agree with the industry part, it would be good to see a player made economy soon.

But in EVE, you do make a "Convert PLEX/AURUM into ISK", it-¦s not only for vanity, time is sold for money and money buy ships. Either an alliance have a swarm of ratters, moongoo, or the good old Russian Aluminium magnate to buy plex and finance the alliance.

In the end, the ammount of money available is limited by the ammount of people available to use that money.

A rich alliance with 50 players and 1000 stocked ships will get screwed (probably) by a poor alliance with 500 players and 500 ships. People are always needed to make the warfare happen, and if things go EVE style here, the low-skilled / low-sp players in hordes will make a big impact on the high-skill / high-sp ones simply due to numeric advantage.

Money helps, but it-¦s not everything, social connections and teamwork > pimped stuff. (On the long run of course)

Thank you for the detailed examples, i-¦ll have a look at them and the fitting tool soon.

Usually people tend to complain only and not present proper information, so it-¦s hard to understand the issues without concrete data.

For example, just looking at the surface of the fitting you mentioned, i would probably remove the granade to make room for other things (After all, i-¦m already long range with the FG, people shouldn-¦t be near me), and perhaps a swap between the ASMG and a Scrambler Pistol would make more room too. (Again, just looking at the surface, got to play with the numbers later). If i remove the granade and swap for a pistol/another secondary, can i use the 3 regular dmg mods?

However, if it-¦s really the case of supreme fittings "army of one" with aurum only equip, then i completely agree that this is an unbalance and should be looked into. Reduced cpu/pg to make a confortable fitting shouldn-¦t be used to stick everything at a suit at once.

There are several variables being changed in May 6th (skills, probably item configs and such), and CCP do get their statistics done and are taking a look at possible imbalances, so i-¦ll play with the numbers now, and i hope anything way out of the bell curve is resolved in the next 2 weeks.

Again, thanks for the informative discussion.

I agree with the industry part, it would be good to see a player made economy soon.

But in EVE, you do make a "Convert PLEX/AURUM into ISK", it-¦s not only for vanity, time is sold for money and money buy ships. Either an alliance have a swarm of ratters, moongoo, or the good old Russian Aluminium magnate to buy plex and finance the alliance.

In the end, the ammount of money available is limited by the ammount of people available to use that money.

A rich alliance with 50 players and 1000 stocked ships will get screwed (probably) by a poor alliance with 500 players and 500 ships. People are always needed to make the warfare happen, and if things go EVE style here, the low-skilled / low-sp players in hordes will make a big impact on the high-skill / high-sp ones simply due to numeric advantage.

Money helps, but it-¦s not everything, social connections and teamwork > pimped stuff. (On the long run of course)

1 - All this is subject to change and improvement
2 - Right now, items are not built by anyone, they-¦re just bought out of thin air. Be it by isk, be it by aurum.
3 - Those who buy thing with aurum will sell them for isk, we-¦ll have a "Lords of War" group that will supply all sides, as long as they pay the price (The expensive one).
4 - They have a guy with PhD in Economy, i think they have a little knowledge on what they-¦re doing.
5 - All this is subject to change and improvment.

What i do want to see is the items being made by players and a functional market. But cmon, we know it-¦s going to take a while to polish things.

EDIT:

Please name 5 aurum items that doesn-¦t have an ISK variant. with similar/superior stats.

However, in EVE no ships or modules are injected in the economy when someone pays aurum for them. They are all made by players, not competing against influx of aurum items. This is why it works.

People who want ISK, can sell these AUR items and people who want these P2W AUR items can buy them for ISK.

IF someone buys 4 plexes in Eve, he can buy a carrier and fit it (not mentioning if he can fly it) but he could defo buy one, where the person playing without plexes @ 10m an hour mining takes 200 hours to get one.

They both can get one, the Plex guy when his blows up, just forks out another 80$ while the miner goes back to mining for half a month.

Eventually modules & suits will most likely be build by players, that just leaves out the AUR items, but even then people who want isk and got enough $ will sell these.

People who want ISK, can sell these AUR items and people who want these P2W AUR items can buy them for ISK.

Eve industrialist doesn't compete against AURUM gear putting soft ISK caps on stuff.
Dust industrialist or marketeer will have to consider the AURUM equivalents in his pricing.

Eve miner gets half a month of meaningfulness.
Dust grinder watches the customer go to the AURUM shop.

Making AURUM items low end, standard variant level, would help a bit but the issue would still be there. Proto AURUM items are not sustainable at all. Their presence sheds to me some light in CCP's 10 year plan: dust is not looking to have a serious economy. Dust and EVE economies are not there to be really linked, unless it's a grand "cash it and dump it" decision.

It will get there eventually, meanwhile ccp has to make money on this game if you like it or not.

Saying it will get there eventually is you admitting that it is unbalanced now right? Just making sure we are on the same page.

I have no problem with CCP making money. I do have a very big problem with them saying for over a year that the game was not going to be P2W and poof, here we are with a batch of supremacy goods on the market.

Don't worry, I use these items all the time on an alt i have for getting under peoples skin. Viziam, stacked regs and damage mods, with pimped out hives and needles. Haven't even lost one yet, played close to twenty matches in them so far.

I bought a batch of the 'cascade' LCDMs just because I could, and they are very handy for making much better advanced suit fittings.

The impact of you running 4 damage mods that costs less CPU, in the grand sheme of things is a minor concern of mine, but i do admit that it would be overall a better game practice if it were all cosmetic / low level stuff.

I-¦m not even discussing the hability for the aurum items to be sold in the future when market kicks in, because after all, if people decide to gather to put up a cartel and control the selling of aurum items, it would be "unfair".

I just wanted to know if the items mentioned were that discrepant, and from what i-¦ve seen so far, they-¦re not.

Less PG/CPU only matters for low skilled people, and the bonuses of the items are either equal or inferior to ISK variant ones.

From the list above, the codewish is not P2W , don't think the spitfire is either. Both are just proficiency 1 guns that you can Aurum purchase at operations 5, like the Guristas Assault Forge.

But the items I listed are all supremacy goods, or P2W.

Again, i fail to see where the p2w part is.

The items you mentioned are either crappier than the ISK variant ones, or they-¦rethe same stats, but less CPU/PG requirements, and those with a high sp character are not relevant, for they may fit the same fitting with the appropriate skills.

None of these have an isk equivalent, that claim is simply false. The lower CPU requirements is a massive difference. I could get a Viziam on a VK.1 logi, with 4 dmg mods, and maybe as much as 750hp thanks to the lower requirements of the aurum dmg mods. With isk, i'd probably have to ditch 1 or 2 of the armour plates for the sake of capacity upgrades. You can't seriously suggest that doesn't give aurum fittings a major advantage.