DUST Search - p2w equipment does not fit a supply-demand economy

Natu Nobilis wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Natu Nobilis wrote:

BlG MAMA wrote:

There are more than 5 , all you need is to go to market and compare them.

Proof lies with the claimer.

Unless of course, it-¦s classical misdirection, and the whole purpose is to create confusion and spread misinformation, then it would be better not to use factual data.

Personally, I know there are two AUR damage mods (Sidearm and Heavy) which have better PG/CPU stats than the ISK equivalents - they're identical in every way except that they cost less to fit, meaning you can create a better suit by using them than you could without spending Aurum.

There are also the two Aurum HAVs, which have better PG/CPU capacity than their ISK equivalents on top of their reduced skill prerequisites. This, as with the damage mods, results in the potential for better fitting than you can achieve with the ISK version of the same vehicle.

While not AUR purchases, the same applies for the tanks in the "Tank Merc Pack" (I forgot the proper name, and am about to head to bed), which makes 6 items that I can confirm as P2W.

But there's a HUGE list of items that have previously had similar P2W implications, and those items have either been removed from the game or brought back in line with their ISK equivalents to be valid and fair, only allowing players early access to the next tier of gear.

CPP way of doing things is "give here, take there", so i always look at the whole picture instead of a few specific points. For example, a default vehicle, one with better speed but less armor/shiled/ehp, one with plenty of cpu/pg but slow as hell, and other variations.

An example

As i said, i-¦ll take a look later at the stats of the items mentioned to form an opinion, but usualy when people say an item is "unfair", there-¦s a better isk variant one that can outperform it, but need better skills. And that is not "unfair" nor p2w.

And again, CCP is compromised to review any unbalanced items, so if those items mentioned are in need of attention, send a mail to CCP informing the why-¦s of it in a informative way.


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2490	Posted - 2013.04.14 21:17:00 - [1] - Quote What gear, specifically, is P2W? Most - not all - AUR gear is lined up neatly with an ISK equivalent, but with slightly lower skill prerequisites. You still have to fit the Aurum-bought modules and weapons onto your Aurum-bought suit using the same PG/CPU capacity and drain for most gear that exists in the game. CCP have said they want to avoid P2W, and while there are a few missteps, they've done a pretty good job so far.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2497	Posted - 2013.04.14 22:19:00 - [2] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: There are more than 5 , all you need is to go to market and compare them. Proof lies with the claimer. Unless of course, it-¦s classical misdirection, and the whole purpose is to create confusion and spread misinformation, then it would be better not to use factual data. Personally, I know there are two AUR damage mods (Sidearm and Heavy) which have better PG/CPU stats than the ISK equivalents - they're identical in every way except that they cost less to fit, meaning you can create a better suit by using them than you could without spending Aurum. There are also the two Aurum HAVs, which have better PG/CPU capacity than their ISK equivalents on top of their reduced skill prerequisites. This, as with the damage mods, results in the potential for better fitting than you can achieve with the ISK version of the same vehicle. While not AUR purchases, the same applies for the tanks in the "Tank Merc Pack" (I forgot the proper name, and am about to head to bed), which makes 6 items that I can confirm as P2W. But there's a HUGE list of items that have previously had similar P2W implications, and those items have either been removed from the game or brought back in line with their ISK equivalents to be valid and fair, only allowing players early access to the next tier of gear.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2497	Posted - 2013.04.14 22:39:00 - [3] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: There are more than 5 , all you need is to go to market and compare them. Proof lies with the claimer. Unless of course, it-¦s classical misdirection, and the whole purpose is to create confusion and spread misinformation, then it would be better not to use factual data. Personally, I know there are two AUR damage mods (Sidearm and Heavy) which have better PG/CPU stats than the ISK equivalents - they're identical in every way except that they cost less to fit, meaning you can create a better suit by using them than you could without spending Aurum. There are also the two Aurum HAVs, which have better PG/CPU capacity than their ISK equivalents on top of their reduced skill prerequisites. This, as with the damage mods, results in the potential for better fitting than you can achieve with the ISK version of the same vehicle. While not AUR purchases, the same applies for the tanks in the "Tank Merc Pack" (I forgot the proper name, and am about to head to bed), which makes 6 items that I can confirm as P2W. But there's a HUGE list of items that have previously had similar P2W implications, and those items have either been removed from the game or brought back in line with their ISK equivalents to be valid and fair, only allowing players early access to the next tier of gear. CPP way of doing things is "give here, take there", so i always look at the whole picture instead of a few specific points. For example, a default vehicle, one with better speed but less armor/shiled/ehp, one with plenty of cpu/pg but slow as hell, and other variations. An example As i said, i-¦ll take a look later at the stats of the items mentioned to form an opinion, but usualy when people say an item is "unfair", there-¦s a better isk variant one that can outperform it, but need better skills. And that is not "unfair" nor p2w. And again, CCP is compromised to review any unbalanced items, so if those items mentioned are in need of attention, send a mail to CCP informing the why-¦s of it in a informative way. When you consider the differences between the AUR HAVs and Marauders, those can be argued as not P2W, but they're closer to it than most Dropsuit AUR gear. You're getting a half-way point between the Gunnlogi/Madrugar and the Sagaris/Surya, but with Militia-level fitting requirements. The damage mods though - they're flat broken. They literally have identical statlines to the best ISK damage mods, and also have lower fitting requirements with it. Those are the only items I'm 100% sure of being directly better than any gear you can buy with ISK, but I'm pretty sure there are others. I'm also, as mentioned, pretty sure that CCP won't leave P2W items in the game, and have seen evidence of them fixing many such items previously.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2527	Posted - 2013.04.16 18:42:00 - [4] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: Again, i fail to see where the p2w part is. The items you mentioned are either crappier than the ISK variant ones, or they-¦rethe same stats, but less CPU/PG requirements, and those with a high sp character are not relevant, for they may fit the same fitting with the appropriate skills. None of these have an isk equivalent, that claim is simply false. The lower CPU requirements is a massive difference. I could get a Viziam on a VK.1 logi, with 4 dmg mods, and maybe as much as 750hp thanks to the lower requirements of the aurum dmg mods. With isk, i'd probably have to ditch 1 or 2 of the armour plates for the sake of capacity upgrades. You can't seriously suggest that doesn't give aurum fittings a major advantage. Just had a thought on this topic. (I'm drunk, it may not be the best thought)... What if the AUR gear had fixed PG/CPU values regardless of your skills? Just pulling random numbers, I'll list things below Magical Mystery Proto AR that costs ISK: Base CPU cost: 100 Base PG cost: 20 'Super' Magical Mystery Proto AR that costs AUR: Base CPU cost: 75 Base PG cost: 15 As you train the fitting skills that reduce your fitting costs on the AR, you reduce both PG and CPU by a total of 25%. This brings the ISK Proto AR down to 75/15, but the Aurum variant has fixed fitting values, so it remains at the same level. Not only can you get it with the lower skill prerequisites, but you can fit it like you've got even more SP invested into your fitting-related skills.