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trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
289
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Posted - 2013.04.14 21:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
When open market finally arrives, we will hop in excitement on it just to find the game funded and ran by Russian oligarchs from that point onwards.
Paying cash for gear makes it impossible to create an economy parallel to that of EVE online. How would that game play, if nullsec pilots could just replace their battleship with NPC injected aurum ones? Dust PC at its core is no different. It's a game of isk ultimately. Using p2w gear will buy your alliance clone packs and infrastructure upgrades. That gear is not player made; it just pops out of thin air.
I conclude thus, that due to this choise, dust economy will remain limited and shallow. Economic warfare will be largely aurum based. To simplify it and make the ground even, I suggest bringing out the last word in PC: Genolution 'P-2W' clone pack, at 40000 AUR (25% discount). |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
293
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Posted - 2013.04.15 09:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ok this was a troll post but I'll point out the principle issue behing it that is not discussed here thoroughly.
Planet warfare is isk warfare. Clones can be bought with isk, infrastructure can be bought with isk. A p2w corp will have a huge advantage by having its players use aurum gear and donate the isk savings for expansion.
This is not an issue in EVE, because items are player made and aurum only buys game time or makeover. However, the aurum gear in dust essentially means that there can never be functional player manufactured industry, because it has to compete with p2w. This, to me, also means the two economies should never be linked because dust ISK is regulated by p2w while EVE isk is not.
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trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
293
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Posted - 2013.04.15 11:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Natu Nobilis wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Ok this was a troll post but I'll point out the principle issue behing it that is not discussed here thoroughly.
Planet warfare is isk warfare. Clones can be bought with isk, infrastructure can be bought with isk. A p2w corp will have a huge advantage by having its players use aurum gear and donate the isk savings for expansion.
This is not an issue in EVE, because items are player made and aurum only buys game time or makeover. However, the aurum gear in dust essentially means that there can never be functional player manufactured industry, because it has to compete with p2w. This, to me, also means the two economies should never be linked because dust ISK is regulated by p2w while EVE isk is not.
I agree with the industry part, it would be good to see a player made economy soon. But in EVE, you do make a "Convert PLEX/AURUM into ISK", it-¦s not only for vanity, time is sold for money and money buy ships. Either an alliance have a swarm of ratters, moongoo, or the good old Russian Aluminium magnate to buy plex and finance the alliance. In the end, the ammount of money available is limited by the ammount of people available to use that money. A rich alliance with 50 players and 1000 stocked ships will get screwed (probably) by a poor alliance with 500 players and 500 ships. People are always needed to make the warfare happen, and if things go EVE style here, the low-skilled / low-sp players in hordes will make a big impact on the high-skill / high-sp ones simply due to numeric advantage. Money helps, but it-¦s not everything, social connections and teamwork > pimped stuff. (On the long run of course)
However, in EVE no ships or modules are injected in the economy when someone pays aurum for them. They are all made by players, not competing against influx of aurum items. This is why it works.
In dust, manufacturing and item availability can never work similiarly to EVE because it needs to compete against NPC injected, aurum bought stuff. You can ditch any dreams for player driven economy regulated by isk; instead, it will be aurum driven economy . This is why it should not be linked to EVE online economy, either. It's just better to keep them separated until AURUM will not affect economic warfare. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
293
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 12:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Natu Nobilis wrote:trollsroyce wrote:When open market finally arrives, we will hop in excitement on it just to find the game funded and ran by Russian oligarchs from that point onwards.
Paying cash for gear makes it impossible to create an economy parallel to that of EVE online. How would that game play, if nullsec pilots could just replace their battleship with NPC injected aurum ones? Dust PC at its core is no different. It's a game of isk ultimately. Using p2w gear will buy your alliance clone packs and infrastructure upgrades. That gear is not player made; it just pops out of thin air.
I conclude thus, that due to this choise, dust economy will remain limited and shallow. Economic warfare will be largely aurum based. To simplify it and make the ground even, I suggest bringing out the last word in PC: Genolution 'P-2W' clone pack, at 40000 AUR (25% discount). 1 - All this is subject to change and improvement 2 - Right now, items are not built by anyone, they-¦re just bought out of thin air. Be it by isk, be it by aurum. 3 - Those who buy thing with aurum will sell them for isk, we-¦ll have a "Lords of War" group that will supply all sides, as long as they pay the price (The expensive one). 4 - They have a guy with PhD in Economy, i think they have a little knowledge on what they-¦re doing. 5 - All this is subject to change and improvment. What i do want to see is the items being made by players and a functional market. But cmon, we know it-¦s going to take a while to polish things. EDIT: Please name 5 aurum items that doesn-¦t have an ISK variant. with similar/superior stats.
1-3) Dust can never have a decent, gameplay based industry-economy if it has to compete against p2w equipment.
4) This PHD guy has shifted into the position of making CCP money, instead of overlooking a functional player industry driven economy if he is involved with dust.
5) I sincerely hope CCP dumps AURUM gear or never joins the two economies together. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
293
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 12:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you want to be a good teamplayer, you buy your full fittings in aurum and give the isk savings to your corporation. This way your corporation will be strong in the economic warfare.
Go skimp? Hopefully your high efficiency will make up for the losses in NPC bought clones and infrastructure, after all it's only a game :) |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
293
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 12:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:However, in EVE no ships or modules are injected in the economy when someone pays aurum for them. They are all made by players, not competing against influx of aurum items. This is why it works. People who want ISK, can sell these AUR items and people who want these P2W AUR items can buy them for ISK. IF someone buys 4 plexes in Eve, he can buy a carrier and fit it (not mentioning if he can fly it) but he could defo buy one, where the person playing without plexes @ 10m an hour mining takes 200 hours to get one. They both can get one, the Plex guy when his blows up, just forks out another 80$ while the miner goes back to mining for half a month. Eventually modules & suits will most likely be build by players, that just leaves out the AUR items, but even then people who want isk and got enough $ will sell these.
Eve industrialist doesn't compete against AURUM gear putting soft ISK caps on stuff.
Dust industrialist or marketeer will have to consider the AURUM equivalents in his pricing.
Eve miner gets half a month of meaningfulness.
Dust grinder watches the customer go to the AURUM shop.
Making AURUM items low end, standard variant level, would help a bit but the issue would still be there. Proto AURUM items are not sustainable at all. Their presence sheds to me some light in CCP's 10 year plan: dust is not looking to have a serious economy. Dust and EVE economies are not there to be really linked, unless it's a grand "cash it and dump it" decision. |
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