That's what everybody else on the forum wants, anyway, to be able to solo Suryas and Sagaris' with militia swarm launchers, so just give them what they want and get rid of tanks completely. I can't make one circuit around a map without half the enemy team magically becoming AV professionals without a prior need (none of my team has LAVs).

Why CCP? Why do you listen to people that want things done their way, which results in the useless of an entire class? Just get rid of tanks already, it'll give you guys less of a headache as well.

Next up on the chopping block, all things heavy-related.

Anybody that whines about tanks has never had the satisfaction of destroying one.
I noticed an increase in tanks, I picked up forge gun skills.
Let the burgesses go back to playing Crawl in Dookie or Farmville.

Like I always say, if you are in a HAV and you can get even 1 person to swap up to a AV weapon, thats a win. If you make 2 people spawn as AV then your doing awesome you can drive away and come out ahead. The more people who come up as AV the less people can shoot at your blues.

Protect the Blues!

Every tool has it's use; you just don't know how to use it.

I usually don't use vehicles but the other day playing OMS I was in a squad with a tank driver. The squad leader put defend order on the tank and 3 of us jumped in and went to town. We got and used 3 orbitals before the end of the match. Tell me how that's useless compared to the average of one OB for infantry? And just imagine when there's 6-man squads that happen to be 2 tanks crews; the sky will never stop falling.

Guns are really OP too, remove guns, CCP

But that's the problem, THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON and so don't kill those that are going AV. If you've come up against at least a decent heavy with a forge gun that knows how to use it for anti-personnel, then you'd know just how difficult it can be to take out a forge gunner, especially if they have a height advantage.

"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved."

~ Sun Tzu

Also, as someone who avidly hates tanks, and has campaigned against them in the past.....yea, they're way too easy to kill until they start really digging deep into their skill set. Even then, the reason you see tanks use such cheap tactics and survive, is because if they try anything else, they die a horribly violent and expensive death.

I personally refrain from any tank based balanced suggestions right now, because I suck at using them, and admit that they're actually pretty easy to kill in many situations.

I still think tanks in ambush is silly though, primarily because having a bunch of AV guys on a small map...yea, that tends to be slaughter....

You make it sound like I don't know what I'm talking about.

I've seen what tanks can and cannot do, and what they cannot do now, even with the best repper, best hardeners and best armor plate, is stand up against militia-grade AV.

Hell, when being a basic logibro was broken, I was one of those exploiting the repair points to spam 6 orbitals in a match

That's what everybody else on the forum wants, anyway, to be able to solo Suryas and Sagaris' with militia swarm launchers, so just give them what they want and get rid of tanks completely. I can't make one circuit around a map without half the enemy team magically becoming AV professionals without a prior need (none of my team has LAVs).

Why CCP? Why do you listen to people that want things done their way, which results in the useless of an entire class? Just get rid of tanks already, it'll give you guys less of a headache as well.

Next up on the chopping block, all things heavy-related.

Next up on the chopping block, all things heavy-related.

Spare us the "everybody else" crap.

You obviously don't if you think tanks are useless in this game.

Then tell me why when using the best modules I can get for my SP, which reduce a quarter of the damage taken to my armor, that militia swarm launchers still take out a ton of my armor. Same thing with militia forge guns. Not everybody has a DCMA or the DAU assault.

This is a good example that you don't know what you're talking about. I use standard + advanced grade AV and even with another AV unit it's hard to take down tanks with the best stuff unless the tank crew are complete morons. I can throw 3 AV grenades at a tank and barely put a dent in it's shields; then it's gone before I get 2 more to chunk at it from the nanohive. Then I either have to chase after it or wait for it to come back around and hope the driver sits still long enough to take it out. With swarm launcher if I'm far away I've got to hope the driver doesn't use the buildings & terrain to block the swarms; if I'm up close I've got to hope I can get a lock before the tank crew sees & kills me.

Well then, I'm sure you'll do great against my tank, because no matter what I do, I continue to get absolutely destroyed no matter what happens.

I don't see how that's relevant.

CCP, I'd like an answer to this question. Does swarm launcher damage ignore any hardeners?

Of course not. Stop QQing. You should Have known that CCP hates armor... Yet I'm guessing you specced into armor tanks...

Lol armor tanks. Also, use passive resists.

Eat cow patties you insufferable simpleton.

Then tell me why when using the best modules I can get for my SP, which reduce a quarter of the damage taken to my armor, that militia swarm launchers still take out a ton of my armor. Same thing with militia forge guns. Not everybody has a DCMA or the DAU assault.

Well then, I'm sure you'll do great against my tank, because no matter what I do, I continue to get absolutely destroyed no matter what happens..

Also you keep bringing up militia as if it did any less damage than a standard weapon. That's not how it goes; while I haven't looked at all militia weapons the only thing that's makes the ones I have looked at worse is more cpu/pg usage, less clip ammo, and longer reload.

Chances are you're getting hit by more than just militia swarms. Because there are 4 rockets in a swarm it has 4 chances to be the last thing that hit you before you blew up resulting in the kill feed saying you were killed by them. Also you keep bringing up militia as if it did any less damage than a standard weapon. That's not how it goes; while I haven't looked at all militia weapons the only thing that's makes the ones I have looked at worse is more cpu/pg usage, less clip ammo, and longer reload.




I might do good but If I do great against your tank it's because you and your crew are morons. I know that's harsh and I apologize if it offends you but it's the truth none the less.

That's what everybody else on the forum wants, anyway, to be able to solo Suryas and Sagaris' with militia swarm launchers, so just give them what they want and get rid of tanks completely. I can't make one circuit around a map without half the enemy team magically becoming AV professionals without a prior need (none of my team has LAVs).

Why CCP? Why do you listen to people that want things done their way, which results in the useless of an entire class? Just get rid of tanks already, it'll give you guys less of a headache as well.

Next up on the chopping block, all things heavy-related.

Just get 10k fit with Packed AV, call free LAV take 3 friend and gang tank 2 times 4 mil gone in fire, he will not call tank again

I really wish there were more armor tanks. The HAV pilots that play on my team always run with shield tanks, and I never get a chance to test my fit designed specifically for repairing armor tanks.

I see more armor tankers than shield.

I'm not a fan of tanks. When the tank gets skilled up they become impossible to kill.

I think we need webifiers to slow them down. If they are dumb enough to get too close they should be slowed down to a crawl.

Tanks shouldn't be sitting 10 feet from an objective mowing down infantry without a care in the world.

That's what everybody else on the forum wants, anyway, to be able to solo Suryas and Sagaris' with militia swarm launchers, so just give them what they want and get rid of tanks completely. I can't make one circuit around a map without half the enemy team magically becoming AV professionals without a prior need (none of my team has LAVs).

Why CCP? Why do you listen to people that want things done their way, which results in the useless of an entire class? Just get rid of tanks already, it'll give you guys less of a headache as well.

Next up on the chopping block, all things heavy-related.

swarms and AV nades are fine we need stronger tanks, says the infantry man. STD are fineish but we need ADV and PRO that can stand up to one or two same level AV weapons, I shouldn't be able to take out a same level tank by my self(unless the tanker is stupid).

Infantry gear works as follows:

Militia: Baseline stats, but with higher fitting cost or slightly lower PG/CPU capacity on the suit. Significantly reduced cost.
Standard: Same baseline stats as Militia, but with better fitting capabiltiies and a significantly higher pricetag
Advanced: A step above Standard in many aspects.
Prototype: Another step up from Advanced.

Vehicles work as follows:

Militia: Baseline stats, short on fitting capabilties,but really, REALLY cheap.
Standard: N/A - closest is the real-money pack that comes with 40 "Militia" tanks that have higher PG/CPU capacity than the actual Militia HAVs. - Have to be bought tho with real money, so for me doesnt count because ther i not really an ISK equivelent
Advanced: Notably higher stats than the Militia baseline, and better fitting capabilities than the "real money" Militia tanks. AUR variants have even better PG/CPU capacity. - No they dont, AUR Madrugar is the same as ISK version, only the AUR gulogi has 50 more CPU than the ISK equivelent, its not even a side grade plus it doesnt require any skills to use, for me its below the normal gunlogi and madrugar
Prototype: Better stats all around again, and on top of the better stats, a unique role-specific bonus - so far this only means Marauders with damage buffs for specific weapon types, but presumably other Proto HAVs will come with different advantages.- Barely better stats plus the diff between the basic tanks and marauders is 1 extra slot in the wrong area, armor tank extra high slot which is next to useless, the shield extra low slot is more use for the shield, these are not proto in my eyes

---

I'd say we have a valid Prototype-level tank tier already. We just need a "tank" version to go up against the current "DPS"-focused Marauders. Combine that with some alterations to how the game works in relation to the tank vs. tank and AV vs. tank situations, and we should see a lot more interesting vehicle fits.

We dont have a proto HAV tier yet

That's what everybody else on the forum wants, anyway, to be able to solo Suryas and Sagaris' with militia swarm launchers, so just give them what they want and get rid of tanks completely. I can't make one circuit around a map without half the enemy team magically becoming AV professionals without a prior need (none of my team has LAVs).

Why CCP? Why do you listen to people that want things done their way, which results in the useless of an entire class? Just get rid of tanks already, it'll give you guys less of a headache as well.

Next up on the chopping block, all things heavy-related.

According to the game itself, we don't have a Standard tier.

Sica/Soma = Militia
Gunnlogi/Madrugar = Advanced
Sagaris/Surya = Protoype.

Also according - as I showed in my post - to the logic that applies to most Dropsuits, we don't have a Standard tier. Heavies being the only exception where there's a non-fitting difference between Militia and Standard.

Look at how the stats line up, it makes sense that a "Standard" HAV should have the same shield/armour HP, and the same of every other stat EXCEPT PG/CPU (and maybe slots) when compared with the Militia variant. Much like the PS Store "Militia" HAVs are, but with skill requirements to purchase/use, and a higher ISK cost. The Store versions would then be the equivalent of an AUR Standard item, making them cost real money, but saving you on skill training to get that extra fitting capacity. Just like AUR gear does for infantry. It doesn't make sense for the Madrugar and Gunnlogi, with large increases in PG/CPU, slots and both shield and armour HP to be "Standard" - they improve too many aspects to fit the established pattern.

But if the Sagaris/Surya are classed as prototype then they are defo very weak proto tanks when compared to proto AV or even dropsuits

Proto AV can defo dent a Surya without really trying, 3k a shot on a 7.5k tank, granted it has resistances but the SL does 30% more damage anyways because lol @ armor

Like compare the different between milita dropsuits and the prototypes and ther is a very big difference but for vehicles in general the differnce isnt that great

I still think we need a proper proto tank to be able to match the proto AV out ther and be able to tank it to some degree instead of **** proto AV run run gtfo activate everything and just find cover

Unless, as has been suggested multiple times, the current "Marauder" Proto tanks are the "DPS" variants, and we're also getting "tank" variants with built-in damage resistance or regen instead of the damage buff the Sagaris and Surya get.

The current Proto HAVs might be glass cannons by design, and the more durable variants are in the pipeline for future builds.

Have you considered that the "Dead" you are speaking for, are dead for a reason, maybe cause they suck?

I love it how people are spending 2 million SP into tanks and thinking its enough...

+1

That's what everybody else on the forum wants, anyway, to be able to solo Suryas and Sagaris' with militia swarm launchers, so just give them what they want and get rid of tanks completely. I can't make one circuit around a map without half the enemy team magically becoming AV professionals without a prior need (none of my team has LAVs).

Why CCP? Why do you listen to people that want things done their way, which results in the useless of an entire class? Just get rid of tanks already, it'll give you guys less of a headache as well.

Next up on the chopping block, all things heavy-related.