Right now, tanks are basically a one-man vehicle. A solo HAV driver with a prototype railgun can destroy an organized 3-man HAV crew in about 1 - 2 shots. This needs to stop. Tanks are supposed to be a squad vehicle, not a solo one.

Here's what i think CCP could do to fix this:

1. Give resistance, damage, and HP bonuses to the HAV when 3 people are using it - This would reward tankers that utilize teamwork and penalize those that don't.

2. Give everyone in the HAV a specified role - Perhaps 1 person in the tank could be responsible for logistics (Shield Repairing, Shield Hardening, Scanning) while the other 2 could be responsible for killing targets.

I'll be expanding this list soon. Please post your feedback and ideas people because HAV gameplay needs a serious overhaul.

Better yet, buff Small Turrets. Doing so will both fix the underwhelming firepower of the LAV and Dropship as well as make HAVs want to work with others.

No. -1
I do not want to give the job of keeping me alive to random blue dots.

I think #2 could be implemented If CCP allowed us to set our vehicles to "squad only". Maybe they could give us the option to set the responsibilities of each crew member as well.

Switching & activating modules is very tedious for HAV drivers especially when you're fighting against infantry and other tanks. Having someone else do this for you would make your job easier while encouraging teamwork at the same time.

No. -1
I do not want to give the job of keeping me alive to random blue dots.

It's funny how no one has a problem with dropsuits being perfectly viable to use solo, but if you expect a HAV to be viable solo you're a horrible person who just wants an insta-win button.

aww stop taking your tank solo into pub games.
That's exactly what you said you were doing.

Tanks are better as team based co-op assets. Let MHACs be solothingies...

It's funny how no one has a problem with dropsuits being perfectly viable to use solo, but if you expect a HAV to be viable solo you're a horrible person who just wants an insta-win button.

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Of course dropsuits can run solo, you can wear a tux without having someone else use the arms for you. Tanks on the other hand, are house sized, multiple heavy weapon toting machines of destruction, so of course you need more than one person using it. I think the OP's idea is awesome. It would encourage strategy and teamwork, instead of just piling on expensive guns and mods and mowing down hapless AV guys.

Just because you're using a tank solo does not mean that it is a solo weapon. It just means that you're a moron.

But if you want to buff HAVs by giving the gunners some really cool stuff, I'm totally down for that.

Awwwwww. No one asked you how should I play my game.
I can run everything myself. Let me do my role. Do not suggest anything related to how tanks operate if you are not a Tanker.
Tanks got nerfed enough. Some people are even good enough to solo a proto tank

Right now, tanks are basically a one-man vehicle. A solo HAV driver with a prototype railgun can destroy an organized 3-man HAV crew in about 1 - 2 shots. This needs to stop. Tanks are supposed to be a squad vehicle, not a solo one.

Here's what i think CCP could do to fix this:

1. Give resistance, damage, and HP boosts to the HAV when more people are using it - This would reward tankers that utilize teamwork and penalize those that don't. These boosts would require a skill and will only work if everyone is in the same squad.

2. Give HAVs a 4th "Tactical" seat - This seat would be responsible for logistics (Scanning, Spotting). It gives you an enhanced view of the map, allowing you to view the fittings of any scanned target you select. It also allows you to request orbital strikes and installations, all from the safety of the tank.

3. Buff small turrets - Small turrets should play an important role in the firepower & survivability of a tank. This means an increase in the damage, range, and/or accuracy of small turrets.


***EDIT***

i changed #2 and replaced it with something better. Keep posting your ideas people, HAV gameplay needs to change.

+1

See, here's how I see it.

Sometimes I can't dedicate two or three hours to gaming. In fact, most times I can't do that. This means I can't go into corp chat and find a group of dedicated squaddies to run with. I have twenty minutes, I'm going to play two ambush matches, and then I'm going to get back to work.

For one of you dropsuit guys, this wouldn't be an issue. You can just run around un-mic'd and spam grenades, or bullets, or reps, or whatever your thing is. And you're gonna do just fine. I can usually hit top 3 on my team in a militia logi suit this way.

For vehicle drivers, however, it's just flat out not possible. Especially under systems such as those outlined in the OP. It becomes such that if I want to be a vehicle operator I don't just benefit from being on comms. I have to be on comms with corpmates I'm accustomed to working with, or else I'm going to die. And that just isn't good balance.

Should HAVs be something that works best when used with friendlies? Like everything else in the game, yes. Should they, and all other vehicles, be completely inaccessible to casual players? Hell damn no.

See, here's how I see it.

Sometimes I can't dedicate two or three hours to gaming. In fact, most times I can't do that. This means I can't go into corp chat and find a group of dedicated squaddies to run with. I have twenty minutes, I'm going to play two ambush matches, and then I'm going to get back to work.

For one of you dropsuit guys, this wouldn't be an issue. You can just run around un-mic'd and spam grenades, or bullets, or reps, or whatever your thing is. And you're gonna do just fine. I can usually hit top 3 on my team in a militia logi suit this way.

For vehicle drivers, however, it's just flat out not possible. Especially under systems such as those outlined in the OP. It becomes such that if I want to be a vehicle operator I don't just benefit from being on comms. I have to be on comms with corpmates I'm accustomed to working with, or else I'm going to die. And that just isn't good balance.

Should HAVs be something that works best when used with friendlies? Like everything else in the game, yes. Should they, and all other vehicles, be completely inaccessible to casual players? Hell damn no.

Sure, I guess, in much the same way a mugger "incentivizes" you to give them your wallet. "Do it or you'll die" is technically an incentive. Just...not really in keeping with the way people normally use the term.

The way people are using tanks right now isn't how they're meant to be used. Why should a solo tanker be able to 2-shot kill an HAV crew that's utilizing tactics and teamwork?

Dust 514 isn't call of duty, this game is built around tactics and teamwork. Why should solo-gameplay be on equal terms with team-oriented gameplay?

Better yet, buff Small Turrets. Doing so will both fix the underwhelming firepower of the LAV and Dropship as well as make HAVs want to work with others.

The way people are using tanks right now isn't how they're meant to be used. Why should a solo tanker be able to 2-shot kill an HAV crew that's utilizing tactics and teamwork?

Dust 514 isn't call of duty, this game is built around tactics and teamwork. Why should solo-gameplay be on equal terms with team-oriented gameplay?

Right now, tanks are basically a one-man vehicle. A solo HAV driver with a prototype railgun can destroy an organized 3-man HAV crew in about 1 - 2 shots. This needs to stop. Tanks are supposed to be a squad vehicle, not a solo one.

Here's what i think CCP could do to fix this:

1. Give resistance, damage, and HP boosts to the HAV when more people are using it - This would reward tankers that utilize teamwork and penalize those that don't. These boosts would require a skill and will only work if everyone is in the same squad.

2. Give HAVs a 4th "Tactical" seat - This seat would be responsible for logistics (Scanning, Spotting). It gives you an enhanced view of the map, allowing you to view the fittings of any scanned target you select. It also allows you to request orbital strikes and installations, all from the safety of the tank.

3. Buff small turrets - Small turrets should play an important role in the firepower & survivability of a tank. This means an increase in the damage, range, and/or accuracy of small turrets.


***EDIT***

i changed #2 and replaced it with something better. Keep posting your ideas people, HAV gameplay needs to change.

How about this. We do a 1v3 battle. You get a solo tank, I get two gunners. They will not use AV or anything like it on your HAV to keep it lol fair.

1) Forcing people to play how you want them to play.

2) Actually making the HAV a four to five person vehicle.

I do not want HAVs to go the way of LAVs and dropships, and that's exactly what adding more people is going to do

No it doesn't have to stop, Kitten. Maybe it can stop when you personally Nerf the Thale Sniper Rifle to be a wiffle bat.

The entire game is built upon better gear and acquisition thereof, specifically Proto and Officer Gear. Skill up and get (and be able to use) the reward. While playing the way you want to play. Not while everyone Else has to play the way You Want them to play

If the mythical blaster tank you refer to can be one-shot killed it has less than 2500 Shields and Armor combined. That is about the maximum that can be dealt with the ~1900 HP Rail and the bonuses necessary to even equip it. That gun requires .3 seconds to spool and 2.2 seconds to fire a second round. When the first one hits the Blaster had better be moving and enabling modules.

By the was, did you add the numbers up regarding the Proto Swarm Launcher? You will find it does more damage than the rail gun in question and can go around corners. Let's make each missile require a crew member.

Blaster Tanks have to keep away from the Sniper Tank's LOS. Or it will die.
For that matter most things require not getting into LOS when a Sniper is around, either Merc or Tank.

Finally, unbalanced gear is a fact. If you drop a tank on the battle field you need to be prepared to lose it. If you drop a Soma and a Sagaris arrives, well you had better be a good driver because the odds on you surviving just went down.

Either they would have to nerf HAV HP, thus effectively requiring a full squad to not get one-shot, or leave HAV HP where it is and allow high-end HAVs to have ridiculous amounts of eHP. So there's your options, either you're making a full squad an effective requirement, or you're making a full squad ridiculously powerful.

Either they would have to nerf HAV HP, thus effectively requiring a full squad to not get one-shot, or leave HAV HP where it is and allow high-end HAVs to have ridiculous amounts of eHP. So there's your options, either you're making a full squad an effective requirement, or you're making a full squad ridiculously powerful.

It wouldn't matter at all actually, especially if both of us are using Large Railgun Turrets. The fight will just come down to who gets hit with the first shot because small turrets barely do any damage to tanks. My prototype small railgun turrets needs 4 - 6 shots to kill an LAV and you're telling me those things are supposed to be useful in a tank fight? People don't use the damage mods for small turrets when they're using an HAV because small turrets are basically useless.

Right now, tanks are basically a one-man vehicle. A solo HAV driver with a prototype railgun can destroy an organized 3-man HAV crew in about 1 - 2 shots. This needs to stop. Tanks are supposed to be a squad vehicle, not a solo one.

Here's what i think CCP could do to fix this:

1. Give resistance, turret, and HP boosts to the HAV when more people are using it - This would reward tankers that utilize teamwork and discourage those that don't. These boosts would require a skill and will only work if everyone is in the same squad. Pilot Dropsuits would give additional bonuses to the tank as well

2. Give HAVs a "Tactical" seat - This seat would be responsible for logistics (Scanning, Spotting). It gives you an enhanced view of the map, allowing you to view the fittings of any scanned target you select. It also allows you to request orbital strikes and installations, all from the safety of the tank. You can also plot courses and set waypoints for the HAV driver. It will be similar to the CITV station for the 3-man tank in Battlefield 3

3. Replace the 2 small turrets with 1 medium turret - This will make the gunner more useful and valuable in tank vs tank fights and tank vs infantry fights.

4. Rebalance Large Turrets - Large Turrets would need to rebalanced in order to compensate for #1 and #3. Tank vs Tank fights would not last for 5-10 seconds and will not be fully determined by who can stack the most damage modifiers on their Large Turret.


****EDIT****

I made some changes to #2 & #3, there's no longer a 4th seat. Keep posting your feedback & ideas

Forgetting one major thing : Turret Installation being totally useless. You can see HAV roll them out each game without even worrying.

1) turrets should be blue or red when game starts.
2) they should have way more HP so that a HAV going 1vs1 against one would be a risk for him. And to avoid militia forge gun taking them down in 4 shots.....
3) The type of turrets are sometimes odd compared to their positionning. Why would anyone add a blaster turret facing an open area where a railgun or a FG could kill them peacefully from distance. Blaster turrets are close range.

Buffing turret installations would force HAVs to rely oon infantry to move on specific areas. They wouldnt be destroyed that often and actually be a tactical asset teams could fight for. Instead of WP ressource for the tankers.

Forgetting one major thing : Turret Installation being totally useless. You can see HAV roll them out each game without even worrying.

1) turrets should be blue or red when game starts.
2) they should have way more HP so that a HAV going 1vs1 against one would be a risk for him. And to avoid militia forge gun taking them down in 4 shots.....
3) The type of turrets are sometimes odd compared to their positionning. Why would anyone add a blaster turret facing an open area where a railgun or a FG could kill them peacefully from distance. Blaster turrets are close range.

Buffing turret installations would force HAVs to rely oon infantry to move on specific areas. They wouldnt be destroyed that often and actually be a tactical asset teams could fight for. Instead of WP ressource for the tankers.

No bad idea from someone who doesnt drive anything

1. Should be hacked not auto hacked, they already can track fast moving LAVs anything else will get hit including infantry and vehicles making them a pain in the arse and losing clones but not due to the other side kicking your arse to a cheap mechanic
2. No way they already have 4k hp as it is and its enough, a turret can take a vehicle apart but thats if the pilot hasnt noticed the turret so they get punished for it
3. Only point i agree with

OK!!!!!!!!!

I accept. When are you on? How much ISK are you willing to put on the line?

Want to do it until 10 tanks are destroyed on one side? If it looks like a 50/50 chance to win, you win the contract. You earn the ISK, and I will make a post about how I was wrong, you are right, and it is a 50/50 chance to win.

If you get your ass beat repeatedly, it means that I win the ISK and you stop what I believe to be delusional posts on forums.

We can do gunnlogi with adv rail, or all out proto if you want. You can choose. I will make a post in war forums too.

Right now, tanks are basically a one-man vehicle. A solo HAV driver with a prototype railgun can destroy an organized 3-man HAV crew in about 1 - 2 shots. This needs to stop. Tanks are supposed to be a squad vehicle, not a solo one.

Here's what i think CCP could do to fix this:

1. Give resistance, turret, and HP boosts to the HAV when more people are using it - This would reward tankers that utilize teamwork and discourage those that don't. These boosts would require a skill and will only work if everyone is in the same squad. Pilot Dropsuits could give additional bonuses to the tank as well

2. Give HAVs a "Tactical" seat - This seat would be responsible for logistics (Scanning, Spotting). It gives you an enhanced view of the map, allowing you to view the fittings of any scanned target you select. It also allows you to request orbital strikes and installations, all from the safety of the tank. You can also plot courses and set waypoints for the HAV driver. It will be similar to the CITV station for the 3-man tank in Battlefield 3

3. Replace the 2 small turrets with 1 medium turret - This will make the gunner more useful and valuable in tank vs tank fights and tank vs infantry fights.

4. Rebalance Large Turrets - Large Turrets would need to rebalanced in order to compensate for #1 and #3. Tank vs Tank fights would not last for 5-10 seconds and will not be fully determined by who can stack the most damage modifiers on their Large Turret.


****EDIT****

I made some changes to #2 & #3, there's no longer a 4th seat. Keep posting your feedback & ideas

No because you have to realize how many tankers you are upsetting right now. I suggest you let this idea die because what do you run what if I suggested a complete over haul to it you would be mad obviously. You don't realize this is what you are doing to tankers. Best bet is you open up a new tank called the squad tank based for squad design and not solo operations when others use it in a group as you said it becomes much stronger. This is not rude but the truth leave my tanks alone.

Right now, tanks are basically a one-man vehicle. A solo HAV driver with a prototype railgun can destroy an organized 3-man HAV crew in about 1 - 2 shots. This needs to stop. Tanks are supposed to be a squad vehicle, not a solo one.

Here's what i think CCP could do to fix this:

1. Give resistance, turret, and HP boosts to the HAV when more people are using it - This would reward tankers that utilize teamwork and discourage those that don't. These boosts would require a skill and will only work if everyone is in the same squad. Pilot Dropsuits could give additional bonuses to the tank as well

2. Give HAVs a "Tactical" seat - This seat would be responsible for logistics (Scanning, Spotting). It gives you an enhanced view of the map, allowing you to view the fittings of any scanned target you select. It also allows you to request orbital strikes and installations, all from the safety of the tank. You can also plot courses and set waypoints for the HAV driver. It will be similar to the CITV station for the 3-man tank in Battlefield 3

3. Replace the 2 small turrets with 1 medium turret - This will make the gunner more useful and valuable in tank vs tank fights and tank vs infantry fights.

4. Rebalance Large Turrets - Large Turrets would need to rebalanced in order to compensate for #1 and #3. Tank vs Tank fights would not last for 5-10 seconds and will not be fully determined by who can stack the most damage modifiers on their Large Turret.


****EDIT****

I made some changes to #2 & #3, there's no longer a 4th seat. Keep posting your feedback & ideas

No.

we already know why tank fights last so short and no HP and resistance shouldnt be based on the number of bluedots or teammates i got in it because it doesnt make sense that when 1 person jumps out to cap the objective my tank magically becomes weaker

Can't speak for the other guy, but I don't like two. HAVs are supposed to have one purpose: balls out fighting. If HAVs can deploy a drone to hack installations, or have any similar such capabilities, then there's essentially no reason to ever not use them. I like vehicles as much as the next guy. Probably more so. But infantry need to have a role on the field.

I'm not really sure how I feel about number three. I almost think HAVs should only have the one turret. The small turrets are really bad at their anti-infantry role, and they would be fairly game-breaking if they weren't. Infantry are supposed to be the HAV's weakness, the fly that they can't move quickly enough to swat. I rather wish they'd just gone with high/mid/low slots, personally, and would nix the whole "turret slot" thing.

As for four...*shrug*. There are a lot of things that need fixing about HAVs and turrets.

HAVs are super squad oriented. Their performance increases drastically if they run with squad support. I would argue that they are far more team dependent than dropsuits. It's just that that support is almost always better from outside of the HAV. And I don't have a problem with that.

No. -1
I do not want to give the job of keeping me alive to random blue dots.

People don't talk about the small turret gunners because they're irrelevant. Ask yourself instead how often people say "I couldn't get within AV grenade range of that HAV, his infantry support is too good!" That is how they're squad oriented.

Now I don't necessarily agree with this method of balance. I don't really like that HAV survival is about running away as soon as you take damage so you can spend 90 seconds repping yourself. That's not a fun way to play. That's why I wrote the post about governing vehicle mod use by capacitor, which I feel will be a lot better.

0, if you need a Gunner. Send me email.

OK!!!!!!!!!

I accept. When are you on? How much ISK are you willing to put on the line?

Want to do it until 10 tanks are destroyed on one side? If it looks like a 50/50 chance to win, you win the contract. You earn the ISK, and I will make a post about how I was wrong, you are right, and it is a 50/50 chance to win.

If you get your ass beat repeatedly, it means that I win the ISK and you stop what I believe to be delusional posts on forums.

We can do gunnlogi with adv rail, or all out proto if you want. You can choose. I will make a post in war forums too.

LOL I don't think anyone is taking bulletsnit as anything more than a disgruntled n00b. We all know he is 100% wrong, and he clearly does not want to put his money where is fingers are xD


My offer is still available. You ready to do this? I'm definitely looking forward to proving you wrong because you don't like to listen to other more knowledgeable HAV drivers on forums. Even though your intentions are probably good, you're really just hurting one way groupsof people like to play the game.

This is not a troll post or anything like that. I am serious. Your idea will destroy HAVs, and I can show you why.

I know EXACTLY what i'm talking about & i don't have to waste millions of ISK on your stupid challenge to prove you wrong either.

It's not a nerf, it's a balancing.

Done properly, a multi-crew tank would be far more powerful and harder to kill than today's tanks.
It would require more enemy coordination to neutralize or destroy, yet it would still be balanced because it requires the attention of multiple team members.

It might be more powerful if it can soak up ten forge shots, two orbitals and repair all of that damage every thirty seconds, but I have a feeling that you would not consider that "balanced".

If you're making a HAV driver a 6 or 7 man crew, it better be worth it. If you're not using at least a three man team, you're just doing it wrong.

I like HAVs, and I feel like they have been gimped enough. They are fun to drive, and still effective if you use it as a team operated vehicle. You can do anything solo, but it does not make whatever you are doing good.

To be honest, I and many other HAV drivers are skeptical about driving HAVs in the next build. Suggestions like this and many others will completely ruin them. There are many players attempting to make HAVs unusable. Some intentionally, and some not, but I and a few other HAV drivers are worried that CCP will listen to them, and essentially remove them from the game by making them useless.

Some are pretty obvious about their hate for HAVs. For instance, duster's blog is run by ROFL alliance, and that alliance just lost almost all of their HAV operators. I think they now have one or two at most. So what do they do? They go to their blog and make a post asking CCP to make HAVs unplayable. It's nothing new for them - I remember when we were in the alliance, they liked to try to put restrictions for skirmishes. The restrictions were always on something that they did not have. No lasers or mass drivers available? Try to make a rule that lasers and mass drivers cannot be used in corp battles. Only four proto suit players on? Try to make a rule that only four proto suits are allowed in corp battles.

So yah, we'll see what CCP does to HAVs and other things like them. I am hopeful that CCP won't kill them, but who knows.

So you'd rather tanks remain exactly as they are now?

if CCP doesn't make tanks more "multi crew oriented", they would seriously limit the tactical potential of these vehicles.

In games like Battlefield 3

If you're that confident and are right about the 50/50 chance, I'll pay you for the tanks that you lose.

edit: but you better be willing to pay me a fair amount if I win ^.^

If it's first to ten, we can start by making the contract enough to pay for five tanks. You can choose gunnlogi w/adv rail or all out sagaris battle.

You're asking them to require multiple squads to operate one.

Maybe that is where we disagree. I'd rather not have DUST514 to become Battlefield 4.

It might be more powerful if it can soak up ten forge shots, two orbitals and repair all of that damage every thirty seconds, but I have a feeling that you would not consider that "balanced".

If you're making a HAV driver a 6 or 7 man crew, it better be worth it. If you're not using at least a three man team, you're just doing it wrong.

Don't reply to this thread if you don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation.

If you're that confident and are right about the 50/50 chance, I'll pay you for the tanks that you lose.

edit: but you better be willing to pay me a fair amount if I win ^.^

If it's first to ten, we can start by making the contract enough to pay for five tanks. You can choose gunnlogi w/adv rail or all out sagaris battle.

I am being constructive. Now stop dodging.


If you win I'll completely agree with you, but there is no way that HAVs are a one man vehicle. There are plenty of people who are just trying to nerf HAVs, show me that I am wrong.

This is the last time I'll post this. I am 99% sure you're just trying to troll HAV drivers because you dislike HAVs and would like to see them nerfed.

I don't understand why you would refuse this offer if you believe that you are right. I am offering to pay for your HAVs and extra if you prove me wrong. I'll even agree with you and concede that I was completely wrong and mistaken. You don't have to post anything. If it is 50/50, there's a good chance that we'll both lose at least 8 to 9 tanks.

That's a lot of ISK I could lose, and you can earn a significant amount. I'm comfortable putting up that much money because I am not only confident that what I am saying is accurate, but I am also willing to back it up with ISK.

you are messing with what we have already

How would this tank idea play in the game when the MCC follows its name. Mobile ....Command...Center.

To 0 Try Harder, I am kinda mental. Maybe insane. I might sacrifice a few tanks to you. Even if it is to become a better driver.

This gives me an idea.

Drivers/pilots should be re-designated as "vehicle commanders".

Anyone in any seat in the vehicle should be able to bring up the module wheel with R2, not just the commander. The vehicle commander will have the ability to select modules and assign them to another player in the vehicle. This way, if you're running with a squad and you trust your gunners to look after you, they can be handed control of things, but if you're running solo and a random jumps into your tank, they won't hijack important things which you really shouldn't trust a blueberry with.

Also, while I like the idea of a "command centre" vehicle, I think they should have "command" variants for certain vehicle types, rather than making it a "this is what tanks do" role.

+1

The way people are using tanks right now isn't how they're meant to be used. Why should a solo tanker be able to 2-shot kill an HAV crew that's utilizing tactics and teamwork?

Dust 514 isn't call of duty, this game is built around tactics and teamwork. Why should solo-gameplay be on equal terms with team-oriented gameplay?

It's not

---_______---


How about this. We do a 1v3 battle. You get a solo tank, I get two gunners. They will not use AV or anything like it on your HAV to keep it lolfair.

I'm going to bet that you are going to fail miserably. Why? Because HAVs are not solo vehicles. Again, just because people use them as such does not mean that they are. What you are actually doing is:

1) Forcing people to play how you want them to play.
2) Actually making the HAV a four to five person vehicle.

The second part is extremely important. Right now we have 8v8, and soon we will have 16 v 16 or 12 v 12. If you have to take four to five people out of a battle to operate ONE vehicle, it is just not worth it. Especially when one to two proto AV can destroy the HAV.

I do not want HAVs to go the way of LAVs and dropships, and that's exactly what adding more people is going to do. HAVs are already weak enough, and making more people operate them is going to make them even worse, unless you do something that will never happen. IE give HAVs a second large turret instead of a small one, or make it so that HAVs can fly. See what is needed to make it actually worth it to take even more people to operate one?

il take your challenge because I can use the hav solo and kill any tank, you would need a 2nd tank just to distract me.

Then squad up with people who know what they're doing, dumbass. That's what every other vehicle pilot needs to do to be effective.

I have a feeling HAV drivers will freak out again since someone is trying to make them use teamwork- just like when I suggested that the driver shouldn't control any turrets. I don't give a damn about how technology would make it possible- it's more efficient when the driver can worry about driving and the gunner can worry about gunning.

Our fight score right now is 5:4.

You want to balance out tanks, make them more of a powerful. teamwork-based, game-changing asset, which is less frequently used to rack up kills in ambush matches against pubbies and more used to help your team win major battles?

Make gunner and driver seperate. Easy as that.

And before the QQ starts about it being 'my tank' and not wanting to rely on blueberries, there are lots of ways you could get around those issues (squad-only vehicle, for example). Drover focuses on driving and modules, gunner focuses on shooting. They share points for kills.

You solve the problem of one man HAV's and the over-use of HAV's in one swoop. You make tanks a more valuable asset to your team because they will be used less often, and you give DUST a teamwork mechanic that isn't found in most shooters.

And before you start bitching, I read people saying themselves they didn't want DUST to be like BF3. Well, here you go. Thiis is nothing like BF3. AFAIK, you'll only find this mechanic in ARMA and Project Reality, and as someone who plays both, I can assure you that you don't have to drive and gun to have a shitload of fun in a tank, and get your heart pumping. There's also no better feeling than coordinating with your driver to get a sweet shoot-and-scoot kill, or as a driver using your optics to mark targets for the gunner.

You can all ***** at this idea now.

Well guys, the dev just stated in the updates thread that eventually, they will be making HAVs more tactical and squad oriented. Don't know how, but it will be happening.

Haven't we been nerfed enough already?

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Of course dropsuits can run solo, you can wear a tux without having someone else use the arms for you. Tanks on the other hand, are house sized, multiple heavy weapon toting machines of destruction, so of course you need more than one person using it. I think the OP's idea is awesome. It would encourage strategy and teamwork, instead of just piling on expensive guns and mods and mowing down hapless AV guys.

This so much. I think HAV's should not be useless or unusable solo, but the rewards for running as a squad should be significant. You could have three pilots with different abilities, for example:

Pilot 1 - Driver
- The driver drives the tank. Obvious really. They are capable of quickly looking around the tank in all directions. Also the most useless seat of my design because nobody would ever skill into only driving them.

Pilot 2 - Gunner
- The gunner is responsible for the main gun as well as the tpp mounted turret. This suit could wear modules to reduce heat build up or damage modifications. the 2nd most useless seat of my design because then even bluetard could get in and fucke everything up as usual

Pilot 3 - Logistics
- Logistics controls all of the modules of the tanks, damage control and sensors. Has pilot suit bonuses that add to resistance or cooldowns. really bad option because people could randomly activate the modules when they are not needed and essentialy make the cool down when your in the middle of a fight and thus, you die

In my honest opinion, this change to HAV's will bring them to an incredible new level. HAV pilots will be incredibly skilled players that will bring back the death dealing that was present in Chromosone, the major cost being the expense of the HAV (which should go up with this implementation) and the cost of the pilot's suits as well as their lives. Driving a HAV in this fashion should also give one more penalty: You can't just hop out when there's danger. It should take a good 5 or 6 seconds to un-integrate yourself from the systems.

Current HAV's should be made into the MAV's and allow for only two pilots.

Maybe the Gunners should get a separate bonus than the pilot that'll help the vehicle out.

We do have plans on making HAV more tactical in the future.

Hopefully they don't screw H.A.V. drivers over....

Maybe the Gunners should get a separate bonus than the pilot that'll help the vehicle out.

Don't their own turret operation skills already stack with the driver's turret operation skills on the small turrets? Hehe