DUST Search - [Request] Making HAVs more tactical & squad-oriented

0 Try Harder wrote:

BulletSnitcheZ wrote:

Quote:

How about this. We do a 1v3 battle. You get a solo tank, I get two gunners. They will not use AV or anything like it on your HAV to keep it lol fair.

It wouldn't matter at all actually, especially if both of us are using Large Railgun Turrets. The fight will just come down to who gets hit with the first shot because small turrets barely do any damage to tanks. My prototype small railgun turrets needs 4 - 6 shots to kill an LAV and you're telling me those things are supposed to be useful in a tank fight? People don't use the damage mods for small turrets when they're using an HAV because small turrets are basically useless.

OK!!!!!!!!!

I accept. When are you on? How much ISK are you willing to put on the line?

Want to do it until 10 tanks are destroyed on one side? If it looks like a 50/50 chance to win, you win the contract. You earn the ISK, and I will make a post about how I was wrong, you are right, and it is a 50/50 chance to win.

If you get your ass beat repeatedly, it means that I win the ISK and you stop what I believe to be delusional posts on forums.

We can do gunnlogi with adv rail, or all out proto if you want. You can choose. I will make a post in war forums too.


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0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 215	Posted - 2013.04.11 02:16:00 - [1] - Quote Just because you're using a tank solo does not mean that it is a solo weapon. It just means that you're a moron. But if you want to buff HAVs by giving the gunners some really cool stuff, I'm totally down for that.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 217	Posted - 2013.04.11 05:13:00 - [2] - Quote BulletSnitcheZ wrote: Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Sure, I guess, in much the same way a mugger "incentivizes" you to give them your wallet. "Do it or you'll die" is technically an incentive. Just...not really in keeping with the way people normally use the term. The way people are using tanks right now isn't how they're meant to be used. Why should a solo tanker be able to 2-shot kill an HAV crew that's utilizing tactics and teamwork? Dust 514 isn't call of duty, this game is built around tactics and teamwork. Why should solo-gameplay be on equal terms with team-oriented gameplay? It's not ---_______--- How about this. We do a 1v3 battle. You get a solo tank, I get two gunners. They will not use AV or anything like it on your HAV to keep it lolfair. I'm going to bet that you are going to fail miserably. Why? Because HAVs are not solo vehicles. Again, just because people use them as such does not mean that they are. What you are actually doing is: 1) Forcing people to play how you want them to play. 2) Actually making the HAV a four to five person vehicle. The second part is extremely important. Right now we have 8v8, and soon we will have 16 v 16 or 12 v 12. If you have to take four to five people out of a battle to operate ONE vehicle, it is just not worth it. Especially when one to two proto AV can destroy the HAV. I do not want HAVs to go the way of LAVs and dropships, and that's exactly what adding more people is going to do. HAVs are already weak enough, and making more people operate them is going to make them even worse, unless you do something that will never happen. IE give HAVs a second large turret instead of a small one, or make it so that HAVs can fly. See what is needed to make it actually worth it to take even more people to operate one?
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 221	Posted - 2013.04.11 22:08:00 - [3] - Quote BulletSnitcheZ wrote: Quote: How about this. We do a 1v3 battle. You get a solo tank, I get two gunners. They will not use AV or anything like it on your HAV to keep it lol fair. It wouldn't matter at all actually, especially if both of us are using Large Railgun Turrets. The fight will just come down to who gets hit with the first shot because small turrets barely do any damage to tanks. My prototype small railgun turrets needs 4 - 6 shots to kill an LAV and you're telling me those things are supposed to be useful in a tank fight? People don't use the damage mods for small turrets when they're using an HAV because small turrets are basically useless. OK!!!!!!!!! I accept. When are you on? How much ISK are you willing to put on the line? Want to do it until 10 tanks are destroyed on one side? If it looks like a 50/50 chance to win, you win the contract. You earn the ISK, and I will make a post about how I was wrong, you are right, and it is a 50/50 chance to win. If you get your ass beat repeatedly, it means that I win the ISK and you stop what I believe to be delusional posts on forums. We can do gunnlogi with adv rail, or all out proto if you want. You can choose. I will make a post in war forums too.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 256	Posted - 2013.04.19 17:24:00 - [4] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: 0, if you need a Gunner. Send me email. LOL I don't think anyone is taking bulletsnit as anything more than a disgruntled n00b. We all know he is 100% wrong, and he clearly does not want to put his money where is fingers are xD 0 Try Harder wrote: BulletSnitcheZ wrote: Quote: How about this. We do a 1v3 battle. You get a solo tank, I get two gunners. They will not use AV or anything like it on your HAV to keep it lol fair. It wouldn't matter at all actually, especially if both of us are using Large Railgun Turrets. The fight will just come down to who gets hit with the first shot because small turrets barely do any damage to tanks. My prototype small railgun turrets needs 4 - 6 shots to kill an LAV and you're telling me those things are supposed to be useful in a tank fight? People don't use the damage mods for small turrets when they're using an HAV because small turrets are basically useless. OK!!!!!!!!! I accept. When are you on? How much ISK are you willing to put on the line? Want to do it until 10 tanks are destroyed on one side? If it looks like a 50/50 chance to win, you win the contract. You earn the ISK, and I will make a post about how I was wrong, you are right, and it is a 50/50 chance to win. If you get your ass beat repeatedly, it means that I win the ISK and you stop what I believe to be delusional posts on forums. We can do gunnlogi with adv rail, or all out proto if you want. You can choose. I will make a post in war forums too. I am. You ready to do this? I'm definitely looking forward to proving you wrong because you don't like to listen to other more knowledgeable HAV drivers on forums. This is not a troll post or anything like that. I am serious. Your idea will destroy HAVs, and I can show you why.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 256	Posted - 2013.04.19 17:46:00 - [5] - Quote I like HAVs, and I feel like they have been gimped enough. They are fun to drive, and still effective if you use it as a team operated vehicle. You can do anything solo, but it does not make whatever you are doing good. To be honest, I and many other HAV drivers are skeptical about driving HAVs in the next build. Suggestions like this and many others will completely ruin them. There are many players attempting to make HAVs unusable. Some intentionally, and some not, but I and a few other HAV drivers are worried that CCP will listen to them, and essentially remove them from the game by making them useless. Some are pretty obvious about their hate for HAVs. For instance, duster's blog is run by ROFL alliance, and that alliance just lost almost all of their HAV operators. I think they now have one or two at most. So what do they do? They go to their blog and make a post asking CCP to make HAVs unplayable. It's nothing new for them - I remember when we were in the alliance, they liked to try to put restrictions for skirmishes. The restrictions were always on something that they did not have. No lasers or mass drivers available? Try to make a rule that lasers and mass drivers cannot be used in corp battles. Only four proto suit players on? Try to make a rule that only four proto suits are allowed in corp battles. So yah, we'll see what CCP does to HAVs and other things like them. I am hopeful that CCP won't kill them, but who knows.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 256	Posted - 2013.04.19 19:11:00 - [6] - Quote BulletSnitcheZ wrote: I know EXACTLY what i'm talking about & i don't have to waste millions of ISK on your stupid challenge to prove you wrong either. If you're that confident and are right about the 50/50 chance, I'll pay you for the tanks that you lose.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 256	Posted - 2013.04.19 19:14:00 - [7] - Quote Skihids wrote: It's not a nerf, it's a balancing. Done properly, a multi-crew tank would be far more powerful and harder to kill than today's tanks. It would require more enemy coordination to neutralize or destroy, yet it would still be balanced because it requires the attention of multiple team members. It might be more powerful if it can soak up ten forge shots, two orbitals and repair all of that damage every thirty seconds, but I have a feeling that you would not consider that "balanced". If you're making a HAV driver a 6 or 7 man crew, it better be worth it. If you're not using at least a three man team, you're just doing it wrong.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 256	Posted - 2013.04.19 20:39:00 - [8] - Quote BulletSnitcheZ wrote: So you'd rather tanks remain exactly as they are now? if CCP doesn't make tanks more "multi crew oriented", they would seriously limit the tactical potential of these vehicles. Again, they are "multi crew oriented" already. You're asking them to require multiple squads to operate one. BulletSnitcheZ wrote: In games like Battlefield 3 Maybe that is where we disagree. I'd rather not have DUST514 to become Battlefield 4. 0 Try Harder wrote: BulletSnitcheZ wrote: I know EXACTLY what i'm talking about & i don't have to waste millions of ISK on your stupid challenge to prove you wrong either. If you're that confident and are right about the 50/50 chance, I'll pay you for the tanks that you lose. edit: but you better be willing to pay me a fair amount if I win ^.^ If it's first to ten, we can start by making the contract enough to pay for five tanks. You can choose gunnlogi w/adv rail or all out sagaris battle. Just in case you missed it. If you do not think that tanks need a team to run, you can prove it.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 256	Posted - 2013.04.19 22:44:00 - [9] - Quote BulletSnitcheZ wrote: Don't reply to this thread if you don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation. I am being constructive. Now stop dodging. 0 Try Harder wrote: BulletSnitcheZ wrote: I know EXACTLY what i'm talking about & i don't have to waste millions of ISK on your stupid challenge to prove you wrong either. If you're that confident and are right about the 50/50 chance, I'll pay you for the tanks that you lose. edit: but you better be willing to pay me a fair amount if I win ^.^ If it's first to ten, we can start by making the contract enough to pay for five tanks. You can choose gunnlogi w/adv rail or all out sagaris battle. If you win I'll completely agree with you, but there is no way that HAVs are a one man vehicle. There are plenty of people who are just trying to nerf HAVs, show me that I am wrong. This is the last time I'll post this. I am 99% sure you're just trying to troll HAV drivers because you dislike HAVs and would like to see them nerfed. I don't understand why you would refuse this offer if you believe that you are right. I am offering to pay for your HAVs and extra if you prove me wrong. I'll even agree with you and concede that I was completely wrong and mistaken. You don't have to post anything. If it is 50/50, there's a good chance that we'll both lose at least 8 to 9 tanks. That's a lot of ISK I could lose, and you can earn a significant amount. I'm comfortable putting up that much money because I am not only confident that what I am saying is accurate, but I am also willing to back it up with ISK.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 259	Posted - 2013.04.21 01:51:00 - [10] - Quote Aythadis Smith wrote: To 0 Try Harder, I am kinda mental. Maybe insane. I might sacrifice a few tanks to you. Even if it is to become a better driver. Sounds good ^.^ Sadly, I'm definitely not anywhere near as good as some other players. I did two games against Slap26 and lost 7 sagaris and a few gunnlogi. But it did help with my tanking a lot, and I finally killed him once! When he is not working or playing DUST, he's playing World of Tanks. BTW you definitely do not want to take me up on that, "I get two guys helping me and you are all alone" deal. We can discuss in game if you're serious about it. I'm not sure if your corp has multiple HAV drivers, but I have wanted to do a 3v3 or 5v5 HAV battle for a long time now. So I said I wasn't going to post here again, but I read some of the dev stuff, and they apparently checked out this thread and talked about it here. I have to go over a few (I thought obvious) strategies, so I'll wait until tomorrow's corp battle. I want to wait because 200mil of our $ is at stake on DUST side and a few bil on EVE, plus winning is cool. I want to post whatever I write on our forums first so that I can get some feedback on what I should say and what I should not. The couple of things I'd like to mention are not too groundbreaking, but loose lips do sink ships ;) I hope that the devs will balance HAVs and AV around corp battles, and not pub games. With 16v16 coming out soon, my corp has done a fair amount of testing in an attempt to figure out how the dynamics will change, what 8v8 strategies might work, which ones will not, and numerous other things. What is cool is that there are multiple things that we have wanted to do in 8v8, but we could not in such a restrictive format. I see 16v16 as an opportunity to add variation to the game, and I want to encourage that instead of restricting it. Many players have spent the past month or so gearing up for 16v16 corp battles. I cannot wait! Sure, I did not need to post this now and could have just posted everything tomorrow, but I figure a bit of publicity for this corp battle cannot hurt. I want this to happen, no corp can back out! ^.^