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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3356
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 11:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
It does not make sense to dedicate an entire controller button to grenades since players may not even have grenades on their fitting, making the button potentially wasted when there are much better uses for it. It would be better if the grenade button was changed to become a dedicated equipment button, and grenades button.
Make weapons and equipment on separate buttons. Tapping R2 should switch weapons, and tapping L2 for cycling between both grenades and equipment.
The benefits would be great for logistics players, because they could then be able to tap the L2 button to cycle through their equipment instead of having to open the wheel (which can be a pain in a many situations).
It would also open the door for new dropsuits in the future with multiple grenade slots, because being able to cycle through them would allow you to choose which one you want.
Most dropsuits only have one equipment slot (and heavies habe none), so switching to grenades would still be pretty fast.
One other change would have to be made though; you would have to tap (or hold to cook) R1 after selecting a grenade to actually use it.
One button (R2) to cycle weapons, another (L2) to cycle grenades and equipment; MAG had it like that, and it works pretty well for managing lots of items. You can still keep the wheels (hold R2 for weapon wheel, hold L2 for item wheel), though this would make switching to exactly what you want so fast that wheels would be obsolete.
Yes I know controller remapping is coming, but I doubt it will provide such a level of control that we will be able to separate equipment from the item wheel, merge grenade and equipment buttons, and have tap-cycle functionality. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3362
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Posted - 2013.04.08 17:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Any thoughts? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3363
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 19:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not even anything on how terrible that would be? |
Adstellarum
G I A N T
29
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
I always make sure I carry grenades |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3363
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Adstellarum wrote:I always make sure I carry grenades And you would still be able to switch to grenades, but the button would also be used for cycling through equipment a well. Basically the button would do more. |
Agent Overkill
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
5
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Posted - 2013.04.08 22:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tapping in my opinion is the fastest, clutter free way to select what you want. Tap, double, or triple tap to bring up what you want without switching to the other stuff. Hopefully Dust will do this as good or better than MAG.
If people hate the idea, they should be able to use the classic way switching to stuff in the options with the customizable controls. |
Godin Thekiller
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
35
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Posted - 2013.04.09 01:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
I had a similar idea in the closed beta, but everyone siad that it was a dumbass idea. THis was mine:
If you pressed Triangle, you would swap through your weapons and grenade. If you pressed R2, you would swap through your Equipment. If you pressed L2, then you would swap through your Active Modules. If Dropsuits never get them, then it would be R2 for weapons/grenade, and L2 for equipment. |
Godin Thekiller
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
35
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Posted - 2013.04.09 01:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
I really don't understand why people accept everything you say, and bash many others, even if it's the exact same thing...... |
Cybus Trama'dol
EYE Security Task Force and Resources Acquisition
2
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
a def +1 from me
I also suggested this in another thread, it makes so much sense I can't believe the Devs haven't responded. it would move it more in line with how Mag worked (and that worked well). As a Logi I find it infuriating to mess around with the wheel while trying to do a ninja res which usually ends up in me shooting at the dead blue dot or trying to rep him. After that its just a matter of seconds before I also get put down while looking for the correct piece of equipment. |
Crusader Rex
EYE Security Task Force and Resources Acquisition
4
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Posted - 2013.04.09 16:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
100% agree on the rez issue. Let us rez with circle, if the injector is equipped. It would result in more cohesive play and better fought battles. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3379
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Posted - 2013.04.09 22:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arise thread! |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1291
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Posted - 2013.04.10 08:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hmmm. I would say "yes why not" if it wasnt dust we were talking about.
Considering how how switching weapons or equipment is. and how slow starting the throwing nade animation is as well..... You would probably render nades useless. It may add another 2-3 seconds before throwing a nade when switching from primary to nade.
run with primary, tap L2, damn.... nanohives, tap L2 again, ok nades, tap R1, see animations, hold, throw. Oh wait i'm already dead lol. Even just adding a switch to nade, then tap R1 would add too much time to the mecanic.
Now, i still see the upsides of this suggestion. Especially in order to ease switching among equipment. But if animations remain as clunky, not a good idea imo. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3389
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 09:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Hmmm. I would say "yes why not" if it wasnt dust we were talking about.
Considering how how switching weapons or equipment is. and how slow starting the throwing nade animation is as well..... You would probably render nades useless. It may add another 2-3 seconds before throwing a nade when switching from primary to nade.
run with primary, tap L2, damn.... nanohives, tap L2 again, ok nades, tap R1, see animations, hold, throw. Oh wait i'm already dead lol. Even just adding a switch to nade, then tap R1 would add too much time to the mecanic.
Now, i still see the upsides of this suggestion. Especially in order to ease switching among equipment. But if animations remain as clunky, not a good idea imo.
Grenades could always have priority so they always appear first, and the time it takes to actually throw the grenade can be shortened. The problems you point out are genuine, but not insurmountable. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2431
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Posted - 2013.04.10 10:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
There are games where you have to manually select grenades separate from your gun, and it's always an awkward mechanic. I personally find it even more problematic than grenades in DUST already are. This wouldn't be a good thing, it wouldn't improve matters, and it would add another layer of complexity to an already overly-complex system.
We have the ability to access grenades at any time. Great. That makes Grenades easy. We can quick-select our primary weapon, or quick-swap to our sidearm (if we have one). Great. That makes weapons easy. When selecting equipment, you have to open the equipment wheel. That's fine.
What we need is the ability to adjust the control scheme, set functions on different buttons where they suit us, instead of having a single control scheme that everyone has to try and learn. There are a LOT of different layouts that different people want to have - instead of creating a huge collection of presets, we need - for ALL controller setups - the ability to create custom control schemes.
Within the custom scheme, we need the ability to set the functionality of tapping the weapon/equipment button. Holding it will always open the wheel, but tapping it should be swappable between "weapons only" or "weapons and equipment". |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1298
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 14:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kage, Agreed the animation could be reworked and thus be more fluent but even then i'm not a fan of the "select nade then launch" system. I like my one button grenade.
Now, i agree with Garret when he says control should be more open to user customisation.
Quote: Within the custom scheme, we need the ability to set the functionality of tapping the weapon/equipment button. Holding it will always open the wheel, but tapping it should be swappable between "weapons only" or "weapons and equipment".
This especially. could solve your logi problem needing to use the wheel everytime. Afaik, they changed that to weapons only because logis were complaining they add to go through every equipment before reaching their weapon again.
But i'm not a lot of logis would rather use R2 tap to scroll among all equipments and use a HOLD R2 to take back weapon more quickly.
Options people ftw |
Kitten Commander
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
157
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 16:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree with the OP on this and believe its somewhat more realistic if you are taking into the account the action that needs to be involved to throw a grenade IRL.
Even if that isnt the case, for kittens sake, please make the R2 button more reliable in swapping between weapons on the fly. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
17
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:It does not make sense to dedicate an entire controller button to grenades since players may not even have grenades on their fitting, making the button potentially wasted when there are much better uses for it. It would be better if the grenade button was changed to become a dedicated equipment button, and grenades button.
Make weapons and equipment on separate buttons. Tapping R2 should switch weapons, and tapping L2 for cycling between both grenades and equipment.
The benefits would be great for logistics players, because they could then be able to tap the L2 button to cycle through their equipment instead of having to open the wheel (which can be a pain in a many situations).
It would also open the door for new dropsuits in the future with multiple grenade slots, because being able to cycle through them would allow you to choose which one you want.
Most dropsuits only have one equipment slot (and heavies habe none), so switching to grenades would still be pretty fast.
One other change would have to be made though; you would have to tap (or hold to cook) R1 after selecting a grenade to actually use it.
One button (R2) to cycle weapons, another (L2) to cycle grenades and equipment; MAG had it like that, and it works pretty well for managing lots of items. You can still keep the wheels (hold R2 for weapon wheel, hold L2 for item wheel), though this would make switching to exactly what you want so fast that wheels would be obsolete.
Yes I know controller remapping is coming, but I doubt it will provide such a level of control that we will be able to separate equipment from the item wheel, merge grenade and equipment buttons, and have tap-cycle functionality.
I really like the idea that you could tap a button to cycle through the grenade and equipment to deploy them on the grenade button push. Spec Ops: The Line, has this for the grenades, I like it in that game too. |
Tarquin Markel
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
92
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's an interesting idea, and I'm sure I'd get used to it.
That said, I'm resistant, mostly because half the times I want a grenade it's AAAAAH GRENADE NOWNOWNOW (I use AV grenades. They're my talisman of divine protection against getting run over).
One single-purpose button does me just fine. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3405
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 23:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tarquin Markel wrote:It's an interesting idea, and I'm sure I'd get used to it.
That said, I'm resistant, mostly because half the times I want a grenade it's AAAAAH GRENADE NOWNOWNOW (I use AV grenades. They're my talisman of divine protection against getting run over).
One single-purpose button does me just fine. The less complexity, the less chance to foul it up and get squished.
If the grenades are set to always be the first item L2 cycles to, it would only require 1 more button press, which still takes only like half a second. |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
7
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Posted - 2013.04.13 23:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Great idea. The grenade button could be better utilized for other things. |
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Geth Massredux
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
139
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 23:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
This is a great idea |
Eris Ernaga
GamersForChrist
126
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 02:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Tarquin Markel wrote:It's an interesting idea, and I'm sure I'd get used to it.
That said, I'm resistant, mostly because half the times I want a grenade it's AAAAAH GRENADE NOWNOWNOW (I use AV grenades. They're my talisman of divine protection against getting run over).
One single-purpose button does me just fine. The less complexity, the less chance to foul it up and get squished. If the grenades are set to always be the first item L2 cycles to, it would only require 1 more button press, which still takes only like half a second.
It'd be cool though because we could filter through equipment one more click for allowing equipment swap is +1 for me.. shhh i didnt plus 1 =3 |
Volgair
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
270
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 03:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Grenade as equipment is sounds fun, but its not the first time that it has been suggested. It would be nice to have the option to carry around 2 types of explosives...
So then would you change the control scheme? -I personally would make it so you have an execute selected equipment function? (current grenade button) Then just have your weapon active at all times then use equipment as needed... Actually now that i think about it a little, that control scheme is a lot cleaner, then what is currently available but would require a change to the HUD...
That thought brings up heavies, they are not permitted equipment for the sake of balance. Would they then be given Heavy variant grenades? If so, that would be rather amazing. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3410
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 03:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Volgair wrote:Grenade as equipment is sounds fun, but its not the first time that it has been suggested. It would be nice to have the option to carry around 2 types of explosives...
So then would you change the control scheme? -I personally would make it so you have an execute selected equipment function? (current grenade button) Then just have your weapon active at all times then use equipment as needed... Actually now that i think about it a little, that control scheme is a lot cleaner, then what is currently available but would require a change to the HUD...
That thought brings up heavies, they are not permitted equipment for the sake of balance. Would they then be given Heavy variant grenades? If so, that would be rather amazing. Actually I don't want to reclassify grenades as equipment, but simply put them on the same button. |
Volgair
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
270
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 09:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Volgair wrote:Grenade as equipment is sounds fun, but its not the first time that it has been suggested. It would be nice to have the option to carry around 2 types of explosives...
So then would you change the control scheme? -I personally would make it so you have an execute selected equipment function? (current grenade button) Then just have your weapon active at all times then use equipment as needed... Actually now that i think about it a little, that control scheme is a lot cleaner, then what is currently available but would require a change to the HUD...
That thought brings up heavies, they are not permitted equipment for the sake of balance. Would they then be given Heavy variant grenades? If so, that would be rather amazing. Actually I don't want to reclassify grenades as equipment, but simply put them on the same button.
To late, the idea is in my head, its much better/ cleaner then what we currently have, and its your fault for putting it there.
Joking aside, what would you classify a lobbed explosive as, if not equipment? The Remote Explosive is no more a weapon then the grenade, and it is perfectly justifiable as equipment. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3412
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 10:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Volgair wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Volgair wrote:Grenade as equipment is sounds fun, but its not the first time that it has been suggested. It would be nice to have the option to carry around 2 types of explosives...
So then would you change the control scheme? -I personally would make it so you have an execute selected equipment function? (current grenade button) Then just have your weapon active at all times then use equipment as needed... Actually now that i think about it a little, that control scheme is a lot cleaner, then what is currently available but would require a change to the HUD...
That thought brings up heavies, they are not permitted equipment for the sake of balance. Would they then be given Heavy variant grenades? If so, that would be rather amazing. Actually I don't want to reclassify grenades as equipment, but simply put them on the same button. To late, the idea is in my head, its much better/ cleaner then what we currently have, and its your fault for putting it there. Joking aside, what would you classify a lobbed explosive as, if not equipment? The Remote Explosive is no more a weapon then the grenade, and it is perfectly justifiable as equipment.
I actually did think about having them reclassified as equipment, the remote explosives already do set a precedent for offensive explosive devices as equipment, but would require more work, and would be a balance issue.
All suit would have their grenade slots replaced with an extra equipment slot, but that extra equipment slot could be used for for something other than a grenade, and would allow heavies to carry nanohives, which would be a problem. The other alternative would be to remove grenade slots, but don't add an extra equipment slot, but that would make all dropsuits much less versatile, and mean heavies can't carry grenades. |
Volgair
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
270
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 11:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Volgair wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Volgair wrote:Grenade as equipment is sounds fun, but its not the first time that it has been suggested. It would be nice to have the option to carry around 2 types of explosives...
So then would you change the control scheme? -I personally would make it so you have an execute selected equipment function? (current grenade button) Then just have your weapon active at all times then use equipment as needed... Actually now that i think about it a little, that control scheme is a lot cleaner, then what is currently available but would require a change to the HUD...
That thought brings up heavies, they are not permitted equipment for the sake of balance. Would they then be given Heavy variant grenades? If so, that would be rather amazing. Actually I don't want to reclassify grenades as equipment, but simply put them on the same button. To late, the idea is in my head, its much better/ cleaner then what we currently have, and its your fault for putting it there. Joking aside, what would you classify a lobbed explosive as, if not equipment? The Remote Explosive is no more a weapon then the grenade, and it is perfectly justifiable as equipment. I actually did think about having them reclassified as equipment, the remote explosives already do set a precedent for offensive explosive devices as equipment, but would require more work, and would be a balance issue. All suit would have their grenade slots replaced with an extra equipment slot, but that extra equipment slot could be used for for something other than a grenade, and would allow heavies to carry nanohives, which would be a problem. The other alternative would be to remove grenade slots, but don't add an extra equipment slot, but that would make all dropsuits much less versatile, and mean heavies can't carry grenades.
There is no reason or limitations that i know of, that would dictate CCP's inability to script a differentiation between something like a nano hive and a grenade module. The only thing they would have to add, is a line in the description for new players. That states any thing remotely similar to "can be equipped by heavies:" It would help clean up the UI and would make combat dropping gear less of a liability. Especially for logies.
Now back to getting appropriately off topic, I remember back to last years fanfest when one of the devs was talking about Heavies. I'm not sure if it was a verbal over site or something they decided against, but Heavies were supposed to have their own grenade subset. If they were willing to script subsets for differentiation, between light and heavy I am sure they would have no issues reclassifying grenades as gear. and then changing the dropsuits... granted that the changes would be time consuming. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3505
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 08:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Still want |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
517
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 10:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Grenades shouldn't be something you do as a panic button. They should be tactical, and this will force players to think when they actually need to use grenades. +1 |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3560
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 22:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Still want |
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