DUST Search - Sprint/Profile/Scan Comparisons

Synner Zerg wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong.

Maken Tosch wrote:

Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners

Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB
Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db

Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only)

Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB
Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB

This is why.

This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible.

How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing.

HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them.

I don't think they would be invisible. Even though measured in the same units, they are not the same measurement. There is little info on this for Dust, but it looks very similar to what EvE has with Signal Strength and Jamming Chance. I don't remember the maths, and it changed a lot of times. but there is never 100% jamming chance, or "invisible" in this case.

With that said, I've definitely been surprised by someone 2 feet away from behind me, without actually seeing them on radar

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1848	Posted - 2013.03.31 20:43:00 - [1] - Quote Sprint/Profile/Scan Comparisons - With DFT Results Every now and then, whenever we see a post from someone saying that scouts are better or that assaults are better or that maybe the logistics are better, there appears to be confusion among the crowd. Those on one side of the argument points to CPU/PG availability, others point to clot layout, while the rest point to overall intended design or some other extra reason behind their claims. But how often have we seen those claim substantiated? Not very often unfortunately. Maybe a few times, but apparently all of that seems to have been forgotten in an endless sea of unrelated threads even with the search function. Thanks to Synner Zerg from Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunters, we now have a fully functional Dust Fitting Tool (DFT) that comes in the form of a spreadsheet seen below. I recommend that you tag the link below into your favorites for future reference. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66531&find=unread The purpose of this thread is to see which dropsuit is the best in four categories: Sprint Speed, Profile Dampening, and Scan Radius, and Scan Precision. For the sake of maintaining fairness and keeping this thread as unbiased as possible, I am only going to be showing Prototype level dropsuits (both vk.0 and vk.1 variants) fitted only with the complex level modules related to the four tests. Equipment slots, light/sidearm/heavy, grenade, high-power slots, and overall intended design are ignored for all classes since everyone has a unique taste towards how they want to fit their suits and because they are not related to the tests and therefore have no relevance. However the CPU/PG and available number of low slots are taken into account. Also, I'm applying the following skills at level 5 each: Mobility L5 Circuitry L5 Combat Engineering L5 Dropsuit Command L5 Profile Dampening L5 Sensor Upgrades L5 Profile Analysis L5 Long Range Scanning L5 Remember, the point of these tests is to see which suit is the best the three respective categories. How big or small the margins are has no relevance because no matter how big or small the advantage may be, an advantage is still an advantage. Starting from largest frame to the smallest frame: Sprint Speed in meters per second using Complex Kinetic Catalyzers Heavy vk.0 = 6.32m/s Heavy vk.1 = 6.77m/s Assault vk.0 = 9.56m/s Assault vk.1 = 9.44m/s Logistics vk.0 = 8.99m/s Logistics vk.1 = 10.07m/s Scout vk.0 = 10.36m/s Scout vk.1 = 10.15m/s Verdict: In terms of frame size, the scout wins at 10.36m/s followed by the Logistcs at 10.07m/s, Assault at 9.56m/s and finally the Heavy at 6.77m/s. No surprise here. Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Assault vk.0 = 8.9dB Assault vk.1 = 11.87dB Logistics vk.0 = 8.9dB Logistics vk.1 = 8.9dB Scout vk.0 = 10.68dB Scout vk.1 = 10.68dB Verdict: Surprisingly, the Logistics and Assault suits are at a statistical tie at 8.9dB with Scout at 10.68dB and the Heavy trailing at 20.57dB. If you account for variants, the Logistics comes out on top. Looks like the Scout is not the stealthiest in the game after all. Of all things, it's the LogiBros that stand to benefit from this. Scan Precision - No Such Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Heavy vk.0 = 45dB Heavy vk.1 = 45dB Assault vk.0 = 41.25dB Assault vk.1 = 41.25dB Logistics vk.0 = 37.5dB Logistics vk.1 = 37.5dB Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB Verdict: The Scout wins since it as able to pick up the lowest profiles more effectively compared to everyone else. The Logistics follows in second, Assault in third, and Heavy in dead last. Please remember that this is not accounting for the active scanners one can fit on the equipment slots. There is a good likelihood that the Logistics may win if the active scanner is accounted for if you look at the suit's CPU/PG flexibility. Scan Radius in meters using Complex Range Amplifiers Heavy vk.0 = 39.42m Heavy vk.1 = 39.42m Assault vk.0 = 82.88m Assault vk.1 = 57.16m Logistics vk.0 = 82.88m Logistics vk.1 = 82.88m Scout vk.0 = 95.27m Scout vk.1 = 95.27m Verdict: The Scout wins for having the longest range. The Logistics and Assault are once again at a statistical tie. But if accounting for variant suits, the LogiBros once again stand to benefit more than the assaults. This test is also proof that the heavy should never venture out on its own on the battlefield. They are the slowest, loudest, and most blind dropsuits on the field. They must always have company. This is why a LogiBro and a Heavy are a perfect couple.
N1ck Comeau Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 195	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:00:00 - [2] - Quote This is why i use Scout. It is amazing in a lot of categories
Texs Red SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 16	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:33:00 - [3] - Quote Great post, a very interesting read!
Kushmir Nadian Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 101	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:33:00 - [4] - Quote Nice job. For the most part very consistent. But does someone from CCP want to come in here and explain why the scout doesn't have the lowest scan profile?
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 22	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:34:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Precision - No Such Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) what are those precision scan enhancers then? interesting results
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1851	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:56:00 - [6] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Precision - No Such Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) what are those precision scan enhancers then? interesting results Those are high-powered modules. Again, they are ignored because of that.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:57:00 - [7] - Quote a worthwhile post? lock this!
Calamity Jane II Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:03:00 - [8] - Quote well thought out! I now know i can implement my goal of being scout like in my assault suit :D thanks!
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 311	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:08:00 - [9] - Quote I don't understand why you disregard high slots ...? They have a pretty big impact on CPU and some on PG and therefore would affect the rest of your fitting. In addition you can't just say that a logi won't equip equipment slotssothatthey could run around likean assault. Unless the point you are trying to prove here is what you gentrifying try to make everyone look like and assault or get the benefit of the scouts precision or speed. If you want to do that you should control for some bonus like total shield HP,then figure out max speed, precision, profile, and weapon meta.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 169	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:15:00 - [10] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I don't understand why you disregard high slots ...? I think he was just looking @ movement speed and scan profile. The other stats are super easy to see (ie logi suit is 4 high, 4 low, (assault is 3 high 4 low or 4 high and 3 low) more pg, more cpu, faster, and has more equip slots than assault :>) I think it would be good to include for HP or something, but w/e. The work needed to go through every single fit is a bit much.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1853	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:18:00 - [11] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I don't understand why you disregard high slots ...? They have a pretty big impact on CPU and some on PG and therefore would affect the rest of your fitting. In addition you can't just say that a logi won't equip equipment slotssothatthey could run around likean assault. Unless the point you are trying to prove here is what you gentrifying try to make everyone look like and assault or get the benefit of the scouts precision or speed. If you want to do that you should control for some bonus like total shield HP,then figure out max speed, precision, profile, and weapon meta. As I stated before in my OP, the focus is only only on the four categories I selected. The high-slots and weapon slots are left empty and ignored as well as each suit's intended design (recon, support, shock trooper, AV, hacker, decoy, etc.) because including those details will just make it too much of a headache for me and everyone has an opinion on what style of fighting they prefer. This is why I left those slots open. So you can add in and adjust to your specific tastes while accounting for your suit's strengths and weaknesses in these four categories.
Mithridates VI Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 550	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:18:00 - [12] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: High-power slots, and overall intended design are ignored for all classes since everyone has a unique taste towards how they want to fit their suits and because they are not related to the tests and therefore have no relevance. Maken Tosch wrote: There are also high-powered modules that can enhance these stats, but they are ignored because we are only talking about low-slots here. How are high powered modules which directly affect the stat being tested "not related to the tests and therefore have no relevance?" It seems like your justification for ignoring high slots is "they don't affect the stats" and then in response to "they do affect the stats" you argue "yes, but they're high slots so we're ignoring them." The exact same logic could be applied to which dropsuit is being tested. "We are only using scout suits because they don't affect the stats." Yes they do. "Well, okay, they do but we're only testing scout suits so the other suits don't matter."
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 169	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:20:00 - [13] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Verdict: Surprisingly, the Logistics and Assault suits are at a statistical tie at 8.9dB with Scout at 10.68dB and the Heavy trailing at 20.57dB. If you account for variants, the Logistics comes out on top. Looks like the Scout is not the stealthiest in the game after all. Thanks for doing that ^____________^ I've been saying that everyone who is using a scout suit to sneak around is doing it wrong for a long time! xD
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1853	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:22:00 - [14] - Quote @Mithridates Thanks for the discrepancy you noted. I'll update my post accordingly. However, I will still ignore the high-power slots because I want you all to come up with your own fits based on these bare-bones results.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 206	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:24:00 - [15] - Quote Logistics can become the stealthiest? WOAH WTF? Well I guess it makes sense? The scouts being stealthy, fast, and deadly cold be called "unbalanced" or OP. Lol. I guess it's not that bad though.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 22	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:33:00 - [16] - Quote 0 Try Harder wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Verdict: Surprisingly, the Logistics and Assault suits are at a statistical tie at 8.9dB with Scout at 10.68dB and the Heavy trailing at 20.57dB. If you account for variants, the Logistics comes out on top. Looks like the Scout is not the stealthiest in the game after all. Thanks for doing that ^____________^ I've been saying that everyone who is using a scout suit to sneak around is doing it wrong for a long time! xD putting 4 complex damps on an assault or logi is probably not a good idea, but whateva.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 311	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:54:00 - [17] - Quote Also I heard dropship command will no longer affect drop suit scan profile. So those number will change. Not sure thats true... Plus if everyone can get their profile so far below the precision level those marginal differences don't matter. Anyway you are just saying that the scout is best at looking at people (without regard for killing them), it's also best at running around (but you say nothing about its lethality or equipment mods of the logi) and there is nothing about endurance mods....
N1ck Comeau Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 196	Posted - 2013.03.31 23:00:00 - [18] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Logistics can become the stealthiest? WOAH WTF? Well I guess it makes sense? The scouts being stealthy, fast, and deadly could be called "unbalanced" or OP. Lol. I guess it's not that bad though. Well they should be the stealthiest sense they are the smallest and should make the least amount of noise. They are balanced out by the fact that they have low base shields and armour.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1152	Posted - 2013.03.31 23:20:00 - [19] - Quote Kushmir Nadian wrote: Nice job. For the most part very consistent. But does someone from CCP want to come in here and explain why the scout doesn't have the lowest scan profile? Slots. Prototype logis have a massive amount of slots for profile dampeners. Not so much with scouts.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 3	Posted - 2013.03.31 23:31:00 - [20] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Logistics can become the stealthiest? WOAH WTF? Well I guess it makes sense? The scouts being stealthy, fast, and deadly could be called "unbalanced" or OP. Lol. I guess it's not that bad though. That 4th module slot can make for some big changes.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1859	Posted - 2013.04.01 00:30:00 - [21] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Also I heard dropship command will no longer affect drop suit scan profile. So those number will change. Not sure thats true... Plus if everyone can get their profile so far below the precision level those marginal differences don't matter. Anyway you are just saying that the scout is best at looking at people (without regard for killing them), it's also best at running around (but you say nothing about its lethality or equipment mods of the logi) and there is nothing about endurance mods.... Lethality is still excluded because that is something that has too many variables. Rate of fire, damage per shot, shots per clip, reload time, armor damage, shield damage, style of causing damage, etc. I'm not gonna go through that much trouble especially with so many weapons to sort through. Equipment is currently set at in a way that is mostly limited to personal preference. As for endurance, I forgot about that. Sorry. When I have the time, I'll include that the next time I update the OP.
Synner Zerg Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 27	Posted - 2013.04.01 00:35:00 - [22] - Quote Wow, great analysis! Thanks for posting this. I am now confident that I made the right choice when I went the Logi route
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2302	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:01:00 - [23] - Quote Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong. Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB This is why. This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible. How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing. HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1861	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:12:00 - [24] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong. Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB This is why. This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible. How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing. HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them. In that case, I will account for it then but only for the sake of the precision enhancing modules and nothing else.
Synner Zerg Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 27	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:15:00 - [25] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong. Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB This is why. This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible. How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing. HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them. I don't think they would be invisible. Even though measured in the same units, they are not the same measurement. There is little info on this for Dust, but it looks very similar to what EvE has with Signal Strength and Jamming Chance. I don't remember the maths, and it changed a lot of times. but there is never 100% jamming chance, or "invisible" in this case. With that said, I've definitely been surprised by someone 2 feet away from behind me, without actually seeing them on radar
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 389	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:26:00 - [26] - Quote And this is why heavy's need a buff. With all those disadvantages and how loud, noisy, slow and blind they are, if you end up fighting 1 1on1 face first you really feel you should have a chance in that firefight? You really think you should be able to go toe to toe with that guy? **** no.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1862	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:27:00 - [27] - Quote ===UPDATED THE OP WITH THE FOLLOWING=== Scan Precision using Complex Precision Enhancers (high-slot modules only) As requested by the readers of this thread. Heavy vk.0 = 30.72dB Heavy vk.1 = 30.72dB Assault vk.0 = 28.16dB Assault vk.1 = 22.53dB Logistics vk.0 = 20.48dB Logistics vk.1 = 20.48dB Scout vk.0 = 23.04dB Scout vk.1 = 23.04dB UPDATED Verdict: Once again, the Logistics wins first place in the test with the assault following behind in a close second. Sadly the Heavy is still the blindest of them all. However, this still doesn't account for the active scanners we will get. And since the DFT doesn't have that module yet and CCP has yet to give it back to us, I can't account for it.
Piercing Serenity Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:36:00 - [28] - Quote Great job Maken. +1 for detail, clarity, and altruism.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2302	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:46:00 - [29] - Quote Synner Zerg wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong. Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB This is why. This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible. How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing. HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them. I don't think they would be invisible. Even though measured in the same units, they are not the same measurement. There is little info on this for Dust, but it looks very similar to what EvE has with Signal Strength and Jamming Chance. I don't remember the maths, and it changed a lot of times. but there is never 100% jamming chance, or "invisible" in this case. With that said, I've definitely been surprised by someone 2 feet away from behind me, without actually seeing them on radar There's a reason I avoided the word "completely" and instead said "effectively invisible". Certain actions light you up more obviously, and being spotted directly by someone will mark you for them and all their squadmates no matter what your Profile is like.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1865	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:54:00 - [30] - Quote Ok guys. That's it. No more updates. Next person to ask me to include something I will show you how much damage my nova knife can do to you.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page