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Sprint/Profile/Scan Comparisons - With DFT Results

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Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1848	Posted - 2013.03.31 20:43:00 - [1] - Quote Sprint/Profile/Scan Comparisons - With DFT Results Every now and then, whenever we see a post from someone saying that scouts are better or that assaults are better or that maybe the logistics are better, there appears to be confusion among the crowd. Those on one side of the argument points to CPU/PG availability, others point to clot layout, while the rest point to overall intended design or some other extra reason behind their claims. But how often have we seen those claim substantiated? Not very often unfortunately. Maybe a few times, but apparently all of that seems to have been forgotten in an endless sea of unrelated threads even with the search function. Thanks to Synner Zerg from Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunters, we now have a fully functional Dust Fitting Tool (DFT) that comes in the form of a spreadsheet seen below. I recommend that you tag the link below into your favorites for future reference. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66531&find=unread The purpose of this thread is to see which dropsuit is the best in four categories: Sprint Speed, Profile Dampening, and Scan Radius, and Scan Precision. For the sake of maintaining fairness and keeping this thread as unbiased as possible, I am only going to be showing Prototype level dropsuits (both vk.0 and vk.1 variants) fitted only with the complex level modules related to the four tests. Equipment slots, light/sidearm/heavy, grenade, high-power slots, and overall intended design are ignored for all classes since everyone has a unique taste towards how they want to fit their suits and because they are not related to the tests and therefore have no relevance. However the CPU/PG and available number of low slots are taken into account. Also, I'm applying the following skills at level 5 each: Mobility L5 Circuitry L5 Combat Engineering L5 Dropsuit Command L5 Profile Dampening L5 Sensor Upgrades L5 Profile Analysis L5 Long Range Scanning L5 Remember, the point of these tests is to see which suit is the best the three respective categories. How big or small the margins are has no relevance because no matter how big or small the advantage may be, an advantage is still an advantage. Starting from largest frame to the smallest frame: Sprint Speed in meters per second using Complex Kinetic Catalyzers Heavy vk.0 = 6.32m/s Heavy vk.1 = 6.77m/s Assault vk.0 = 9.56m/s Assault vk.1 = 9.44m/s Logistics vk.0 = 8.99m/s Logistics vk.1 = 10.07m/s Scout vk.0 = 10.36m/s Scout vk.1 = 10.15m/s Verdict: In terms of frame size, the scout wins at 10.36m/s followed by the Logistcs at 10.07m/s, Assault at 9.56m/s and finally the Heavy at 6.77m/s. No surprise here. Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Assault vk.0 = 8.9dB Assault vk.1 = 11.87dB Logistics vk.0 = 8.9dB Logistics vk.1 = 8.9dB Scout vk.0 = 10.68dB Scout vk.1 = 10.68dB Verdict: Surprisingly, the Logistics and Assault suits are at a statistical tie at 8.9dB with Scout at 10.68dB and the Heavy trailing at 20.57dB. If you account for variants, the Logistics comes out on top. Looks like the Scout is not the stealthiest in the game after all. Of all things, it's the LogiBros that stand to benefit from this. Scan Precision - No Such Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Heavy vk.0 = 45dB Heavy vk.1 = 45dB Assault vk.0 = 41.25dB Assault vk.1 = 41.25dB Logistics vk.0 = 37.5dB Logistics vk.1 = 37.5dB Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB Verdict: The Scout wins since it as able to pick up the lowest profiles more effectively compared to everyone else. The Logistics follows in second, Assault in third, and Heavy in dead last. Please remember that this is not accounting for the active scanners one can fit on the equipment slots. There is a good likelihood that the Logistics may win if the active scanner is accounted for if you look at the suit's CPU/PG flexibility. Scan Radius in meters using Complex Range Amplifiers Heavy vk.0 = 39.42m Heavy vk.1 = 39.42m Assault vk.0 = 82.88m Assault vk.1 = 57.16m Logistics vk.0 = 82.88m Logistics vk.1 = 82.88m Scout vk.0 = 95.27m Scout vk.1 = 95.27m Verdict: The Scout wins for having the longest range. The Logistics and Assault are once again at a statistical tie. But if accounting for variant suits, the LogiBros once again stand to benefit more than the assaults. This test is also proof that the heavy should never venture out on its own on the battlefield. They are the slowest, loudest, and most blind dropsuits on the field. They must always have company. This is why a LogiBro and a Heavy are a perfect couple.
N1ck Comeau Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 195	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:00:00 - [2] - Quote This is why i use Scout. It is amazing in a lot of categories
Texs Red SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 16	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:33:00 - [3] - Quote Great post, a very interesting read!
Kushmir Nadian Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 101	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:33:00 - [4] - Quote Nice job. For the most part very consistent. But does someone from CCP want to come in here and explain why the scout doesn't have the lowest scan profile?
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 22	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:34:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Precision - No Such Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) what are those precision scan enhancers then? interesting results
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1851	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:56:00 - [6] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Precision - No Such Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) what are those precision scan enhancers then? interesting results Those are high-powered modules. Again, they are ignored because of that.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:57:00 - [7] - Quote a worthwhile post? lock this!
Calamity Jane II Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:03:00 - [8] - Quote well thought out! I now know i can implement my goal of being scout like in my assault suit :D thanks!
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 311	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:08:00 - [9] - Quote I don't understand why you disregard high slots ...? They have a pretty big impact on CPU and some on PG and therefore would affect the rest of your fitting. In addition you can't just say that a logi won't equip equipment slotssothatthey could run around likean assault. Unless the point you are trying to prove here is what you gentrifying try to make everyone look like and assault or get the benefit of the scouts precision or speed. If you want to do that you should control for some bonus like total shield HP,then figure out max speed, precision, profile, and weapon meta.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 169	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:15:00 - [10] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I don't understand why you disregard high slots ...? I think he was just looking @ movement speed and scan profile. The other stats are super easy to see (ie logi suit is 4 high, 4 low, (assault is 3 high 4 low or 4 high and 3 low) more pg, more cpu, faster, and has more equip slots than assault :>) I think it would be good to include for HP or something, but w/e. The work needed to go through every single fit is a bit much.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1853	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:18:00 - [11] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I don't understand why you disregard high slots ...? They have a pretty big impact on CPU and some on PG and therefore would affect the rest of your fitting. In addition you can't just say that a logi won't equip equipment slotssothatthey could run around likean assault. Unless the point you are trying to prove here is what you gentrifying try to make everyone look like and assault or get the benefit of the scouts precision or speed. If you want to do that you should control for some bonus like total shield HP,then figure out max speed, precision, profile, and weapon meta. As I stated before in my OP, the focus is only only on the four categories I selected. The high-slots and weapon slots are left empty and ignored as well as each suit's intended design (recon, support, shock trooper, AV, hacker, decoy, etc.) because including those details will just make it too much of a headache for me and everyone has an opinion on what style of fighting they prefer. This is why I left those slots open. So you can add in and adjust to your specific tastes while accounting for your suit's strengths and weaknesses in these four categories.
Mithridates VI Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 550	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:18:00 - [12] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: High-power slots, and overall intended design are ignored for all classes since everyone has a unique taste towards how they want to fit their suits and because they are not related to the tests and therefore have no relevance. Maken Tosch wrote: There are also high-powered modules that can enhance these stats, but they are ignored because we are only talking about low-slots here. How are high powered modules which directly affect the stat being tested "not related to the tests and therefore have no relevance?" It seems like your justification for ignoring high slots is "they don't affect the stats" and then in response to "they do affect the stats" you argue "yes, but they're high slots so we're ignoring them." The exact same logic could be applied to which dropsuit is being tested. "We are only using scout suits because they don't affect the stats." Yes they do. "Well, okay, they do but we're only testing scout suits so the other suits don't matter."
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 169	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:20:00 - [13] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Verdict: Surprisingly, the Logistics and Assault suits are at a statistical tie at 8.9dB with Scout at 10.68dB and the Heavy trailing at 20.57dB. If you account for variants, the Logistics comes out on top. Looks like the Scout is not the stealthiest in the game after all. Thanks for doing that ^____________^ I've been saying that everyone who is using a scout suit to sneak around is doing it wrong for a long time! xD
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1853	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:22:00 - [14] - Quote @Mithridates Thanks for the discrepancy you noted. I'll update my post accordingly. However, I will still ignore the high-power slots because I want you all to come up with your own fits based on these bare-bones results.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 206	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:24:00 - [15] - Quote Logistics can become the stealthiest? WOAH WTF? Well I guess it makes sense? The scouts being stealthy, fast, and deadly cold be called "unbalanced" or OP. Lol. I guess it's not that bad though.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 22	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:33:00 - [16] - Quote 0 Try Harder wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Verdict: Surprisingly, the Logistics and Assault suits are at a statistical tie at 8.9dB with Scout at 10.68dB and the Heavy trailing at 20.57dB. If you account for variants, the Logistics comes out on top. Looks like the Scout is not the stealthiest in the game after all. Thanks for doing that ^____________^ I've been saying that everyone who is using a scout suit to sneak around is doing it wrong for a long time! xD putting 4 complex damps on an assault or logi is probably not a good idea, but whateva.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 311	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:54:00 - [17] - Quote Also I heard dropship command will no longer affect drop suit scan profile. So those number will change. Not sure thats true... Plus if everyone can get their profile so far below the precision level those marginal differences don't matter. Anyway you are just saying that the scout is best at looking at people (without regard for killing them), it's also best at running around (but you say nothing about its lethality or equipment mods of the logi) and there is nothing about endurance mods....
N1ck Comeau Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 196	Posted - 2013.03.31 23:00:00 - [18] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Logistics can become the stealthiest? WOAH WTF? Well I guess it makes sense? The scouts being stealthy, fast, and deadly could be called "unbalanced" or OP. Lol. I guess it's not that bad though. Well they should be the stealthiest sense they are the smallest and should make the least amount of noise. They are balanced out by the fact that they have low base shields and armour.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1152	Posted - 2013.03.31 23:20:00 - [19] - Quote Kushmir Nadian wrote: Nice job. For the most part very consistent. But does someone from CCP want to come in here and explain why the scout doesn't have the lowest scan profile? Slots. Prototype logis have a massive amount of slots for profile dampeners. Not so much with scouts.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 3	Posted - 2013.03.31 23:31:00 - [20] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Logistics can become the stealthiest? WOAH WTF? Well I guess it makes sense? The scouts being stealthy, fast, and deadly could be called "unbalanced" or OP. Lol. I guess it's not that bad though. That 4th module slot can make for some big changes.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1859	Posted - 2013.04.01 00:30:00 - [21] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Also I heard dropship command will no longer affect drop suit scan profile. So those number will change. Not sure thats true... Plus if everyone can get their profile so far below the precision level those marginal differences don't matter. Anyway you are just saying that the scout is best at looking at people (without regard for killing them), it's also best at running around (but you say nothing about its lethality or equipment mods of the logi) and there is nothing about endurance mods.... Lethality is still excluded because that is something that has too many variables. Rate of fire, damage per shot, shots per clip, reload time, armor damage, shield damage, style of causing damage, etc. I'm not gonna go through that much trouble especially with so many weapons to sort through. Equipment is currently set at in a way that is mostly limited to personal preference. As for endurance, I forgot about that. Sorry. When I have the time, I'll include that the next time I update the OP.
Synner Zerg Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 27	Posted - 2013.04.01 00:35:00 - [22] - Quote Wow, great analysis! Thanks for posting this. I am now confident that I made the right choice when I went the Logi route
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2302	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:01:00 - [23] - Quote Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong. Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB This is why. This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible. How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing. HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1861	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:12:00 - [24] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong. Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB This is why. This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible. How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing. HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them. In that case, I will account for it then but only for the sake of the precision enhancing modules and nothing else.
Synner Zerg Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 27	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:15:00 - [25] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong. Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB This is why. This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible. How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing. HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them. I don't think they would be invisible. Even though measured in the same units, they are not the same measurement. There is little info on this for Dust, but it looks very similar to what EvE has with Signal Strength and Jamming Chance. I don't remember the maths, and it changed a lot of times. but there is never 100% jamming chance, or "invisible" in this case. With that said, I've definitely been surprised by someone 2 feet away from behind me, without actually seeing them on radar
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 389	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:26:00 - [26] - Quote And this is why heavy's need a buff. With all those disadvantages and how loud, noisy, slow and blind they are, if you end up fighting 1 1on1 face first you really feel you should have a chance in that firefight? You really think you should be able to go toe to toe with that guy? **** no.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1862	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:27:00 - [27] - Quote ===UPDATED THE OP WITH THE FOLLOWING=== Scan Precision using Complex Precision Enhancers (high-slot modules only) As requested by the readers of this thread. Heavy vk.0 = 30.72dB Heavy vk.1 = 30.72dB Assault vk.0 = 28.16dB Assault vk.1 = 22.53dB Logistics vk.0 = 20.48dB Logistics vk.1 = 20.48dB Scout vk.0 = 23.04dB Scout vk.1 = 23.04dB UPDATED Verdict: Once again, the Logistics wins first place in the test with the assault following behind in a close second. Sadly the Heavy is still the blindest of them all. However, this still doesn't account for the active scanners we will get. And since the DFT doesn't have that module yet and CCP has yet to give it back to us, I can't account for it.
Piercing Serenity Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:36:00 - [28] - Quote Great job Maken. +1 for detail, clarity, and altruism.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2302	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:46:00 - [29] - Quote Synner Zerg wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong. Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB This is why. This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible. How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing. HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them. I don't think they would be invisible. Even though measured in the same units, they are not the same measurement. There is little info on this for Dust, but it looks very similar to what EvE has with Signal Strength and Jamming Chance. I don't remember the maths, and it changed a lot of times. but there is never 100% jamming chance, or "invisible" in this case. With that said, I've definitely been surprised by someone 2 feet away from behind me, without actually seeing them on radar There's a reason I avoided the word "completely" and instead said "effectively invisible". Certain actions light you up more obviously, and being spotted directly by someone will mark you for them and all their squadmates no matter what your Profile is like.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1865	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:54:00 - [30] - Quote Ok guys. That's it. No more updates. Next person to ask me to include something I will show you how much damage my nova knife can do to you.

Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 22	Posted - 2013.04.01 03:01:00 - [31] - Quote ive got a good feeling that soon there is going to be some very easy to kill and very expensive proto suits knocking about
Logi Bro Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1016	Posted - 2013.04.01 03:19:00 - [32] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Endurance in Stamina Amount/Recovery Rate respectively using Complex Cardiac Regulators As requested by the readers of this thread Heavy vk.0 = 525.71/56.07 Heavy vk.1 = 735.98/56.07 Assault vk.0 = 1765.47/141.23 Assault vk.1 = 1376.1/126.58 Logistics vk.0 = 1412.35/112.99 Logistics vk.1 = 2330.41/225.98 Scout vk.0 = 1788.9/132.1 Scout vk.1 = 1699.42/132.1 Confused. Are you saying that the suits can reach over a thousand stamina? I haven't even gotten 200.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1868	Posted - 2013.04.01 03:24:00 - [33] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Endurance in Stamina Amount/Recovery Rate respectively using Complex Cardiac Regulators As requested by the readers of this thread Heavy vk.0 = 525.71/56.07 Heavy vk.1 = 735.98/56.07 Assault vk.0 = 1765.47/141.23 Assault vk.1 = 1376.1/126.58 Logistics vk.0 = 1412.35/112.99 Logistics vk.1 = 2330.41/225.98 Scout vk.0 = 1788.9/132.1 Scout vk.1 = 1699.42/132.1 Confused. Are you saying that the suits can reach over a thousand stamina? I haven't even gotten 200. Yup. With the exception of the Heavy. That thing needs a gym membership.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1871	Posted - 2013.04.01 05:19:00 - [34] - Quote I feel sorry for all the heavy users right now.
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 9	Posted - 2013.04.01 13:43:00 - [35] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I feel sorry for all the heavy users right now. They brought this on themselves. It's a lifestyle choice
Nirwanda Vaughns Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2013.04.01 14:41:00 - [36] - Quote Always said theres nothing another suit can do that us logi's cant do just as well or better :) all hail to the king logis baby!!
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 313	Posted - 2013.04.01 14:59:00 - [37] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Always said theres nothing another suit can do that us logi's cant do just as well or better :) all hail to the king logis baby!! What it looks like to me, is, if you have 10 total defined roles and you could try and pick a mix of 1-5 for any suit to fill, the logi might be 90%-100% as good as the best suit at most of them one-at-a-time. But the other suits will probably be better at fitting a few roles better than the logi.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1875	Posted - 2013.04.01 15:18:00 - [38] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Always said theres nothing another suit can do that us logi's cant do just as well or better :) all hail to the king logis baby!! Scouts still reign supreme in sprint speed and scan radius. Top that.
Bones McGavins Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 38	Posted - 2013.04.01 16:26:00 - [39] - Quote This does not take into account the eventual stacking penalties on complex mods does it? If so, its probable the scout will eventually overtake logi in most these tests since its natural stats are better and thus the lack slots wont hurt as bad since the logi will get penalized.
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 9	Posted - 2013.04.01 16:33:00 - [40] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: This does not take into account the eventual stacking penalties on complex mods does it? If so, its probable the scout will eventually overtake logi in most these tests since its natural stats are better and thus the lack slots wont hurt as bad since the logi will get penalized. Actually it does. All 5 categories that Maken Tosch used are %-based bonuses and have stacking penalty applied to them.

Bones McGavins Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 38	Posted - 2013.04.01 16:42:00 - [41] - Quote Ah, so the logi is currently even better right now? Crazy.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 313	Posted - 2013.04.01 17:48:00 - [42] - Quote Suit------CPU used/PG Used-----CPU Remaining/PG Remaining Logistics vk.1 = 10.07m/s-----108/60-----336.19/29.5 Logistics vk.0 = 8.99m/s----- 108/60-----336.19/29.5 Assault vk.1 = 9.44m/s-----81/45-----288.19/29.5 Assault vk.0 = 9.56m/s-----108/60-----223.69/7 Heavy vk.1 = 6.77m/s-----54/30-----240.19/29.5 Heavy vk.0 = 6.32m/s-----54/30-----240.19/29.5 Scout vk.1 = 10.15m/s-----81/45-----178.19/29.5 Scout vk.0 = 10.36m/s-----81/45-----150.69/22 So I took your numbers and assumed that you were fitting max catalyzers for this analysis. I then, just to control for other variables, assumed that each fit was equipping a GEK and a fused locus grenade. Now if you look at the remaining fittings you can quickly see what you have to start to sacrifice. Max tank If for example you want to fit a max tank (2 complex shields for about +165 HP) the Assault vk.0 or Scout vk.0 will not be able to equip any equipment or sidearms, wasting 3 slots each. The remaining suits with equipment slots would have to use only a sidearm and a single equipment slot, or two equipment slots (and only standard modules). If you'd want to increase your weapon's meta, you'd then have to sacrifice tank and/or speed, but here the assault has the advantage, because as soon as you take a catalyzer off of the scout (for a PG upgrade), the assault has a better tank and more speed than the scout. So if you priorities are, max speed>max tank>max lethality...your possibilities are... 1) scout vk.0 at 10.36 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 403 HP (and significant recharge) and only a GEK/locus grenade. 2) scout vk.1 at 10.15 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 403 HP (+ recharge) GEK/grenade +std sidearm/ std equip 3) logistics vk.1 at 10.07 m/s (4 catalyzers) at 509 HP (weak recharge, but better stamina than scout/assault) and only a GEK/grenade + 2 STD equipment (no sidearm). 4) assault vk.0 at 9.56 m/s (4 catalyzers) at541 HP and a GEK/locus grenade + a sidearm or better gun and/or maybe equip. Here you also see what you are sacrificing to get that marginal speed bonus. For max speed, you will not get close to max damage or tank. If you threw off the last catalyzer on each of these in exchange for a PG bonus, then you could probably start to get into prototype weapons and/or equipment onto your fitting. GÇªworking on similar analysis for the other categoriesGÇª
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 313	Posted - 2013.04.01 18:58:00 - [43] - Quote Stealth Tanking Suit = dB-------CPU/PG remaining Logistics vk.1 = 8.9dB-----388.5/97.5 Logistics vk.0 = 8.9dB-----388.5/97.5 Assault vk.1 = 1.87dB-----313.5/82.5 Assault vk.0 = 8.9dB-----300.75/75 Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db-----263.25/67.5 Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB-----263.25/67.5 Scout vk.1 = 10.68dB-----228.25/82.5 Scout vk.0 = 10.68dB-----200.75/75 I didn't go into the same depth here, but you can see that 'signal tanking' or 'stealth tanking' is a lot more forgiving on the PG/CPU than speed tanking. These numbers come from equipping the high slots with a full stack of dampeners. For reference 4 complex armor plates add +575 HP for 120 CPU and 41 PG (significant speed reduction). All suits could get significantly more gear on though. Its not too hard to see a proto weapon, adv grenades and equipment all be able to fit there, depending on how you stack your armor.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1877	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:19:00 - [44] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Stealth Tanking Suit = dB-------CPU/PG remaining Logistics vk.1 = 8.9dB-----388.5/97.5 Logistics vk.0 = 8.9dB-----388.5/97.5 Assault vk.1 = 1.87dB-----313.5/82.5 Assault vk.0 = 8.9dB-----300.75/75 Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db-----263.25/67.5 Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB-----263.25/67.5 Scout vk.1 = 10.68dB-----228.25/82.5 Scout vk.0 = 10.68dB-----200.75/75 I didn't go into the same depth here, but you can see that 'signal tanking' or 'stealth tanking' is a lot more forgiving on the PG/CPU than speed tanking. These numbers come from equipping the high slots with a full stack of dampeners. For reference 4 complex armor plates add +575 HP for 120 CPU and 41 PG (significant speed reduction). All suits could get significantly more gear on though. Its not too hard to see a proto weapon, adv grenades and equipment all be able to fit there, depending on how you stack your armor. Actually, I you're confusing the profile dampeners with the precision enhancers. Profile dampeners take up low power slots.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1877	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:24:00 - [45] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Speed comparative analysis Suit------CPU used/PG Used-----CPU Remaining/PG Remaining Logistics vk.1 = 10.07m/s-----108/60-----336.19/29.5 Logistics vk.0 = 8.99m/s----- 108/60-----336.19/29.5 Assault vk.1 = 9.44m/s-----81/45-----288.19/29.5 Assault vk.0 = 9.56m/s-----108/60-----223.69/7 Heavy vk.1 = 6.77m/s-----54/30-----240.19/29.5 Heavy vk.0 = 6.32m/s-----54/30-----240.19/29.5 Scout vk.1 = 10.15m/s-----81/45-----178.19/29.5 Scout vk.0 = 10.36m/s-----81/45-----150.69/22 So I took your numbers and assumed that you were fitting max catalyzers for this analysis. I then, just to control for other variables, assumed that each fit was equipping a GEK and a fused locus grenade. Now if you look at the remaining fittings you can quickly see what you have to start to sacrifice. Max tank If for example you want to fit a max tank (2 complex shields for about +165 HP) the Assault vk.0 or Scout vk.0 will not be able to equip any equipment or probably no sidearms, wasting 3 slots each. The remaining suits with equipment slots would have to use only a sidearm and a single equipment slot, or two equipment slots (and only standard modules). If you'd want to increase your weapon's meta, you'd then have to sacrifice tank and/or speed, but here the assault has the advantage, because as soon as you take a catalyzer off of the scout (for a PG upgrade), the assault has a better tank and more speed than the scout. This all assumes mostly max skills. Clearly PG is your limiting factor from catalyzers. So if you priorities are, max speed>max tank>max lethality...your possibilities are... 1) scout vk.0 at 10.36 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 403 HP (and significant shield recharge) and only a GEK/locus grenade. 2) scout vk.1 at 10.15 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 403 HP (+ recharge) GEK/grenade +std sidearm/ std equip 3) logistics vk.1 at 10.07 m/s (4 catalyzers) at 509 HP (weak recharge, but better stamina recovery than scout/assault) and only a GEK/grenade + 2 STD equipment (no sidearm). 4) assault vk.0 at 9.56 m/s (4 catalyzers) at 376 HP(no complex shields fit) and a GEK/locus grenade + a sidearm or better gun or maybe equip. 5) assault vk.1 at 9.44 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 541 HP and a GEK/locus grenade + a sidearm and/or better gun and/or maybe equip. Here you also see what you are sacrificing to get that marginal speed bonus. For max speed, you will not get close to max damage or tank. If you threw off the last catalyzer on each of these in exchange for a PG bonus, then you could probably start to get into prototype weapons and/or equipment onto your fitting. GÇªworking on similar analysis for the other categoriesGÇª Conclusion: It really doesn't seem worth it to be able to sprint at above 9.5 m/s to sacrifice so many other aspects of your fitting ability. Nice observation there. You are correct that going for pure speed is extremely limiting. So far there is one fit in particular that can still benefit from pure speed while still benefiting from max damage and still be able to use a prototype weapon. Ninja fit Scout vk.1 3x complex sidearm damage mod 1x Ishukone nova knife 3x complex kinetic catalyzers It forces the user to give up grenades and equipment but for its intended design, it's doable. But this only means that only knifers benefit from this.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1877	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:32:00 - [46] - Quote Keep in mind though that these figures only account for prototype level suits and modules. Since future updates are expected to introduce more suits and (maybe in the future) specialization suits, these figures are only definitive until May 6. The figures also don't account for cloaking modules, shield generators, etc. which are expected to be given to us on May.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 313	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:32:00 - [47] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Actually, I you're confusing the profile dampeners with the precision enhancers. Profile dampeners take up low power slots. I thought this was the case initially...I think these stats are right, but I just have them against the wrong slots. I was using the wiki for reference and had nothing else to check it against. And for some reason I can't ctrl-v anything...
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 313	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:33:00 - [48] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Keep in mind though that these figures only account for prototype level suits and modules. Since future updates are expected to introduce more suits and (maybe in the future) specialization suits, these figures are only definitive until May 6. The figures also don't account for cloaking modules, shield generators, etc. which are expected to be given to us on May. Roger that, and I still haven't seen confirmation of a rumor that dropsuit command reducing the scan profile of a suit will now be removed in the coming patch... Is that somewhere?
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1877	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:37:00 - [49] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Keep in mind though that these figures only account for prototype level suits and modules. Since future updates are expected to introduce more suits and (maybe in the future) specialization suits, these figures are only definitive until May 6. The figures also don't account for cloaking modules, shield generators, etc. which are expected to be given to us on May. Roger that, and I still haven't seen confirmation of a rumor that dropsuit command reducing the scan profile of a suit will now be removed in the coming patch... Is that somewhere? I think the profile bit is just rumor being rumor. Until CCP confirms that, ignore it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2321	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:41:00 - [50] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Nice observation there. You are correct that going for pure speed is extremely limiting. So far there is one fit in particular that can still benefit from pure speed while still benefiting from max damage and still be able to use a prototype weapon. Ninja fit Scout vk.1 3x complex sidearm damage mod 1x Ishukone nova knife 3x complex kinetic catalyzers It forces the user to give up grenades and equipment but for its intended design, it's doable. But this only means that only knifers benefit from this. Is it possible to alter this fit with a Shotgun and Light Damage mods (or a couple of Shield Extenders for a slight durability increase) and make a viable fitting? Or - the horror - an ACTUAL SCOUT FITTING with speed and a few Precision Amps to give your team the edge in situational awareness. With a 45m starting radius and a buff from good SP investment, I think the extra speed would be more valuable than a range increase. Keep in mind that active scanners will make the user more visible, so passive scanning will also serve a purpose on the battlefield.

Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 313	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:47:00 - [51] - Quote Does the sidearm bonus and the melee damage bonus stack on the nova knives?
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 49	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:49:00 - [52] - Quote This entire thread is the reason this game is great. I love math. This thread should be what is in general. Thank you for a fun read to everyone that added here. I am ether too lazy or too busy raging aboud threads to do the math to this depth about a game. Fun read and please post more.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1879	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:50:00 - [53] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Does the sidearm bonus and the melee damage bonus stack on the nova knives? As far as I know, no they don't. Only the sidearm weapon upgrade skill and its proficiency equivalent effect it.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 32	Posted - 2013.04.03 03:00:00 - [54] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Ah, so the logi is currently even better right now? Crazy. .... and only one weapon slot. Balancing issues aside I'm rather content that no one class get's everything.
dustwaffle IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 4	Posted - 2013.04.03 10:22:00 - [55] - Quote lol winmater carries over from EVE
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 321	Posted - 2013.04.03 13:03:00 - [56] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: lol winmater carries over from EVE I still am not convinced that logis are best in all categories but they are the best at being well above average in nearly all. I haven't yet seen a team full of logis, but I imagine if I did, the absense of sidearms could be extremely exploitable. Generally, all weapons but the shotgun aren't optimal for fights under 15m. Tuning an anti-logi team to be more a CQC brawling team (assaults/heavies), or to load an armor/stealth (assaults and scouts) tank could mean these suits could have an edge over the logis.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 118	Posted - 2013.04.03 13:13:00 - [57] - Quote Quote: Sprint Speed in meters per second using Complex Kinetic Catalyzers Heavy vk.0 = 6.32m/s Heavy vk.1 = 6.77m/s Assault vk.0 = 9.56m/s Assault vk.1 = 9.44m/s Logistics vk.0 = 8.99m/s Logistics vk.1 = 10.07m/s Scout vk.0 = 10.36m/s Scout vk.1 = 10.15m/s i gotta start speccing into those speed enhancers...too bad they don't increase regular run/strafe speeds and are only to gtfo of or into the dragons den.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 118	Posted - 2013.04.03 13:16:00 - [58] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: lol winmater carries over from EVE Well Minmatar ships are generally the fastest and completely adaptable to either shield, armor or speed tank. But i want 500 passive shield per second regen on my Caldari Drake Dropsuit !!! :p


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