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Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1257
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to thank CCP (specifically FoxFour and Nullarbor) for involving the dust community in their design ideas and discussions. That said CCP come get your whoopin.
The entrie concept of planetary control as ccp has described is easily broken mechanically and economically. It seems CCP is hell bent on bringing the same broken aspects of sov in EvE to dust.
So you are asking "Beers whats so wrong with eve sov?" I'll give you the short version since you asked nicely.
-null sov favors very large organizations (coalitions/alliances/corps) -with large entities the idea of wars and or grinding becomes a deterent because of the time involved and the economic realities. Hence the big ******* blue donut that is nullsec. Staging wars for good fights isn't what ccp intended sadly, but all thats left to do with the current mechanics. -passive isk generation benefit corps/alliances not the individual pilots. Just because alliances offer ship replacement doesn't mean the individual is being being rewarded for their efforts. -The shear amount of isk/assets that already exist in eve in the power blocks have made it impossible for any smaller groups to ever challenge. This is a legacy issue and part of the reason why CCP initially looked at dust as a possbile isk sink for EvE.
I could go on but I would rather look for a solution. So below I listed 5 simple features that my concept must include.
1 Sov must reward the individual merc, not simply a source of isk/resources for the corp/alliance (This is more of an fps player aspect) 2 effort to maintain districts should scale in a linear fashion with the number of districts controlled by a corp/alliance 3 Resources/isk should be utilize active mechanics when possible 4 The urge to fight/reward for fighting should out weigh benefits of blue donut fest 5 The resource model needs to be random, dynamic, and include existing and new resources(must be reason for eve pilots to care about dust)
Now to the basics in the most simple antinovel way i can
A. What indicates control of districts? Districts all have a security status from .00 to 1.00 (1.00 being the higest). We mercs dont actually control the districts or planets we simply have a relationship with the civilian population. The higher the security status the more rewarding the relationship is. At the same time the higher the secruty status is the more lucrative it would be for corp or alliance to attack and win a battle in the district( loot)
B. Each district/planet/system will have its own relationships with different NPC gear corporations such as allotek. When defending the district, attacking and winning, or active PVE the NPC corps will see fit to reward players
C. What is secrurity status? Security status increases on an hourly basis for the corp in control of the district (23/7), while decreasing for any other corps at a rate of .01 per hour that do not have control. Below is just me throwing out details and ideas - Sec status increases at a rate of .01 from .00 to .60 per hour -At .60 a corp will receive benefits from PVE and passive resources on the district and all timers -From .60 to .86 the rate of increase per hour will be .005. -At .86 the corp will be able to reconfigure all district structures and managed resources -From .86 to 1.00 the rate of increase is .002 -A sec status above .86 will give % bonus to passive isk/resrouces generated. Specialized infrastructures can be placed (such as system cyno jammer under control of the district). -PVE drone infestations difficulty will increase dramatically along with rewards. -Higher level meta equip such as officer gear can be available via PVP in high sec status districts and even in PVP.
Note: If a corp loses a corp battle to defend its district its now occupied. If the defending corp never attempts another corp battle over the district it will eventually flip to the occupiers. So the defender will have sec status advantage as long as they continue to fight for it. So a district can be taken in 1 battle or require many, thus a my dynamic battlefield
D. Why scale effort to be linear for districts you ask? This is the best way to not punish small corps or penalize large corps. If a corp has 1 district they will still need to defend it and farm it of drones (PVE). Having a high sec status makes it a very juicy target to be attacked and looted. If a corp has 10 districts and has the ability to defend and farm it then they should receive 10x rewards for it. My issue going back to eve is the scale factor where 10x amount of players can control 100x more and reap 100x rewards. I roll with the big alliances in nullsec and its super easy to see the negative without 1:1 effort scaling. Now I say this the benefits of having a larger corp with many districts is still there. Your players have more flexability and you will have a more diverse selections of resrouces to extract.
E How do we keep from a blue donut? First make it more lucrative to attack, pillage, takeover a highsec status district. If done right players will scour systems and planets for these and with good reason.
F How do we keep from blues farming blues to get the good gear? Introduce standing for mercs (not the way its done in eve though). Mercs will all want a negative standing aginst corp/alliances with high (-10) sec status to get the best loot and most isk. If a merc is involved in a prolonged campaign against 1 alliance his sec status could easily reach -10 after many victories. Want the best officer gear in the game? carry a -10 and win battles. So if blues wanted to farm each other it wouldn't be worth it. Also if a merc stops fighting against a corp there needs to be standing tick down. So if you have a -10 standing and don't fight them for 30 days you now have a -2. Again reward those to attack consistantly, but more importantly win. |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1257
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
reserved |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1257
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
reserved |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
370
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Actually my question is where is my beer. not finished reading yet so will update post in a sec |
Rifter7
Improvise.
162
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
and yet i can't understand why the smurfs in this game are so eager to signup for it. they're just going to be the equivalent to slaves in terms of what they get for their involvement.
thats okay, hopefully there's room for corporations to burn territories and contractual work.. pfft 0.0 politics.
pretty decent read, i think ccps going to go with the sov system from eve tho. |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
2170
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have to admit, PC confuses the hell out of me. I look forward to it either way though, whether I'm in a corp or not |
Judy Maat
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
10
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Free Beers you are a genius if you make a game I want to buy it :-P |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
228
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree wholeheartedly. The only point that I'd like to make is that the cost of maintaining control of a district should not increase linearly with the number controlled. The cost should increase exponentially such that controlling larger areas becomes increasingly more difficult. The exponential curve would need to be tweaked by CCP to give a certain threshold maximum area controlled without too much fuss. Frankly, this is how SOV should be in Eve as well.
And yes, I realize that larger corps/alliances will split into smaller groups to exploit the nonlinear costs, but nevertheless, a nonlinear, exponential cost growth is the best way to encourage more dynamics and entry points for smaller groups.
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GM Hercules
Game Masters C C P Alliance
403
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Please don't use profanity in your comments.
Thanks |
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0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
168
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:-The shear amount of isk/assets that already exist in eve in the power blocks have made it impossible for any smaller groups to ever challenge. This is a legacy issue and part of the reason why CCP initially looked at dust as a possbile isk sink for EvE.
This statement is what worries me the most. To me it seems like CCP understands the other issues that I have problems with (hit detection and the like), and I do not know when or how they will be fixed, but at least CCP knows those are a problem.
I will be heartbroken if new corporations and players cannot compete with veterans. I know some like the veteran pub-stompper status, but that doesn't make a game fun for me. I like a challenge. I like competition. What would please me is seeing a group of entirely new players start a corp today, and in two months time challenge Internal Error and PFBHz, and win by relying completely on their new two-month-old members.
That provides variation, and it's something tangible that new players can grasp onto. I do not know how CCP can make it so that old players will continue to play, but still make it so that new players can be top ASAP, but it's what I look forward to in games. I love FPS games because some guy can buy a game, turn on his console, pick up his controller, and be #1 in no time at all. I like to be that guy when I can too.
It doesn't happen always, and I do get beat (slap is clearly a better tanker :P), but I at least had the opportunity to compete. Creating a system that distances old from new and makes it so that the new players cannot compete with the old is not what I'm into. I kill lots of tanks, but the biggest reason I'm able to do so is because I put 7mil SP solely towards killing enemy tanks. It's not a skill or ability factor, it's SP and gear.
The people I play with are great, so it's not like I'm going to quit or anything, but I feel as though I and new players would enjoy the game so much more if we knew that there's always a fast and easy way to make it to the top level. |
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Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1259
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
GM Hercules wrote:Please don't use profanity in your comments.
Thanks
my bad I corrected |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
370
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Edited my post beers, why time based? (point c) |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax. CRONOS.
363
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Per beers request this is my veiw on District ownership and drone infestations.
if your district becomes infected, it enters the locked state and you lose any benefits from that district.
To regain control you must destroy the infestation. if you lose too many clones doing so, you lose the district.
you could contract out the removal if you want, but they would have to send clones, deal with losing clones in transit ect. |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1262
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Captain-Awesome wrote:Edited my post beers, why time based? (point c)
I hate grinding in nullsec and dont want that here. This gives corps option to fight it out or walk away. It adds to tatics and strategy of dust
I also am thinking of the fact that players will need to grind sp, maybe do FW for LP and gear, do PVE to clear districts of drones. While the focal point of the game is pvp and sov control I dont want it to be only that.
The other thing that i didn't mention is that if a corp has a .9 and above sec status in a district they can set the timer to defend every 3 days. lots of details to play with |
G Torq
ALTA B2O
124
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
My observations:
@C+D: Stronger corps are going to farm districts owned by other corps (hostiles or alts), by waiting for their district to become richs, and then attack it. It dis-incentivises campaigning, i.e. continued battles. Worst case, it will create too few battles to properly facilitate Merc standings as in F. This is also my overall concern - I do not see your setup encouraging attacking to the degree needed to cause corps to pull in "random" mercs (or semi-random ones), as there is nothing causing fatigue beyond what each corp's Core Team can handle.
I like your Merc Standing concept, and would propose to have it on higher levels: Corp standing vs other corps and inter-alliance standings. These would NOT be based on the standing of the members, but of the actions (or in-actions) of a Corp, and represent hostilities or shared activities. This could possibly incentivise Corps to perform continued attacks, and whole campaigns, where the benefit is in attacking the same corp, instead of random "farms". |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
371
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:Per beers request this is my veiw on District ownership and drone infestations.
if your district becomes infected, it enters the locked state and you lose any benefits from that district.
To regain control you must destroy the infestation. if you lose too many clones doing so, you lose the district.
you could contract out the removal if you want, but they would have to send clones, deal with losing clones in transit ect.
just like in the ps home game we have in dust area (forgot the name). This works for me :D |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
247
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Excellent line of thought and something CCP should bring up whenever wormhole dust is considered. You are absolutely spot on about the scaling issues here. In EVE, you need the ability to defend in central large fights where the capital numbers escalate such that alliances can be crushed. If you have that power you can take as much space as you dare, the risk is that competition teams up on you if you over expand.
The mechanics you describe sound meaningful, they resemble wormhole space. Nullsec is a war of identity, alliances making a name for themselves and players gaining recognition and power by their efforts. Wormholes are about holding as big a fortress as you can farm, and the cultivation takes time but rewards are in personal wealth.
Thus, CCP save this draft for the future. PC works with current mechanics because it's a game of power and alliances. Wormhole PC could use this kind of personal reward mechanic. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2204
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Not going to try and pick apart the whole OP (because most of it is really, REALLY good), but I have to point out the 5 requirements Beers has listed.
Free Beers wrote:1 Sov must reward the individual merc, not simply a source of isk/resources for the corp/alliance (This is more of an fps player aspect) Yes. Definitely. Which is why we're also getting loot from the battlefield, with each player's share of said loot being decided by their performance and involvement in battle.
Quote:2 effort to maintain districts should scale in a linear fashion with the number of districts controlled by a corp/alliance From how PC is currently described, this is already going to be the case. In order to defend if your districts are under constant attack, a Corp will need 16 players available for 1 hour each day. If you only have a 16-player Corp, then nobody gets to take a day off unless you can hire a merc to fill their position. For each district, you need at least 16 players available for at least 1 hour each day. Your corp's member count and the timezones of each player must be considered before expanding, or you need to forge alliances (or an Alliance) to cover any shortages you might have. The reward of holding territory also scales in a linear manner, with each district having equal production capabilities. Holding 2 districts provides precisely double the potential profit that you get from holding only 1 district. Holding 5 districts means you make 5 times as much as you would from holding 1. The reward for holding territory doesn't exponentially increase as you expand.
Quote:3 Resources/isk should be utilize active mechanics when possible You don't seem to back this requirement up within your own suggestion, though...
Quote:4 The urge to fight/reward for fighting should out weigh benefits of blue donut fest I'm having to make an assumption about the "blue donut" thing, and based on context, I'm guessing that you're saying war in EVE isn't financially viable when you already hold territory. From the way DUST's Planetary Conquest model is described, that doesn't sound like it's going to be the case. And particularly while, in the early days, we're only going to be fighting across a single region of LowSec space. The number of Corps who want a slice of our battlefield will greatly outnumber the amount of districts over which we're going to be fighting.
Quote:5 The resource model needs to be random, dynamic, and include existing and new resources(must be reason for eve pilots to care about dust) THIS sounds like a better idea for future expansion than for an initial implementation of the system. |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1264
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Posted - 2013.03.29 21:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:I agree wholeheartedly. The only point that I'd like to make is that the cost of maintaining control of a district should not increase linearly with the number controlled. The cost should increase exponentially such that controlling larger areas becomes increasingly more difficult. The exponential curve would need to be tweaked by CCP to give a certain threshold maximum area controlled without too much fuss. Frankly, this is how SOV should be in Eve as well.
And yes, I realize that larger corps/alliances will split into smaller groups to exploit the nonlinear costs, but nevertheless, a nonlinear, exponential cost growth is the best way to encourage more dynamics and entry points for smaller groups.
i have no interests in punishing corps for being large |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
229
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Posted - 2013.03.29 21:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Buster Friently wrote:I agree wholeheartedly. The only point that I'd like to make is that the cost of maintaining control of a district should not increase linearly with the number controlled. The cost should increase exponentially such that controlling larger areas becomes increasingly more difficult. The exponential curve would need to be tweaked by CCP to give a certain threshold maximum area controlled without too much fuss. Frankly, this is how SOV should be in Eve as well.
And yes, I realize that larger corps/alliances will split into smaller groups to exploit the nonlinear costs, but nevertheless, a nonlinear, exponential cost growth is the best way to encourage more dynamics and entry points for smaller groups.
i have no interests in punishing corps for being large
Fine, it's your idea, but this is part of the nullsec problem in Eve. It's too easy for large alliances (note not corps) to just cordon off large sections of space and build static boundaries. Also, i wouldn't consider this a punishment, just a less than linear benefit. The real world works this way too (not that it matters much for a game) but larger populations become much more difficult to control than a linear curve would allow for.
Anyway, I'll defer to your judgement as it's your idea and thread. Also, I do support your idea in general, and even without my stipulation, I think it sounds better than what I've heard from CCP. |
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steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
378
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Posted - 2013.03.29 21:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
i think a big factor that could help is making sure that All players get rewarded for taking part regardless what corp rules are in place. so auto payouts or something . know i think that's in their. but it would be nice to have a system set up for automated payouts (think RL wage) so that at the end of every week/month ever merc gets payout from the corp.
this would lead to active corps rather than zombies corps. and strongly push the mentality of players being mercs as they hop around corps looking for the best pay, this would then have a stuble effect of corps making sure they can afford their own players by taking part in PC.
my biggest gripe in both EvE and Dust at the moment is that i very very rarely get rewarded for joining a corp i normally spend most my time making sure the top 10% of players get to have the most fun. as it stands the only payout i have ever got from DUST is torny rewards Corp battles are a HUGE isk sink and thus no point what so ever taking part in them |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1031
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Posted - 2013.03.29 21:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't think it's quite fair to say something is "broken" if it doesn't happen to work exactly the way YOU want it to work. Some of us actually enjoy the politics and metagame of managing larger groups and working together as large entities to rule over the less organized and less politically motivated. The idea that how a player interacts in New Eden isn't restricted by arbitrary game mechanics is one of it's main draws and what sets it apart.
So your guys are good at the shooting bits? That means you need to work to recruit guys who are good with the politics and metagame.
Just because You don't like those aspects doesn't mean that others don't find them "fun" and doesn't mean the game should be sculpted in a way that only benefits players who want forced restrictions to slow down the corps who actually have their **** together. If you're a small corp and that is holding back your ability to get things accomplished, then you need to up your game and grow your corp.
If you don't want to wade through the politics and the metagame, I fear you are playing the wrong game.
I do, on the other hand, agree that there needs to be incentives for even the largest corps to stay in the fight and keep waging war.
I assure you, Subdreddit (and the Dust 514 arm of TEST in general) will not be sitting on our hands, we're gonna be shooting people in the face. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
163
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:I don't think it's quite fair to say something is "broken" if it doesn't happen to work exactly the way YOU want it to work. Some of us actually enjoy the politics and metagame of managing larger groups and working together as large entities to rule over the less organized and less politically motivated. The idea that how a player interacts in New Eden isn't restricted by arbitrary game mechanics is one of it's main draws and what sets it apart.
So your guys are good at the shooting bits? That means you need to work to recruit guys who are good with the politics and metagame.
Just because You don't like those aspects doesn't mean that others don't find them "fun" and doesn't mean the game should be sculpted in a way that only benefits players who want forced restrictions to slow down the corps who actually have their **** together. If you're a small corp and that is holding back your ability to get things accomplished, then you need to up your game and grow your corp.
If you don't want to wade through the politics and the metagame, I fear you are playing the wrong game.
I do, on the other hand, agree that there needs to be incentives for even the largest corps to stay in the fight and keep waging war.
I assure you, Subdreddit (and the Dust 514 arm of TEST in general) will not be sitting on our hands, we're gonna be shooting people in the face.
I think the overall point was that a system that promotes a natural homeostasis by way of creating large player alliances to a point where the financial costs of war outweigh the benefits(however boring) of peace(tentative ceasefire) that leads to a stasis of conflict is "broken"
More so nothing here i see limits metagame or politics, as large institutions can still control large regions with the logistical and political aspect needed to accomplish without shielding them from the prospect of war because of the lucrative nature of the territory such large institutions hold. Additionally the system allows for mercenaries to truly be mercs(a focal RP element of Dust) that would otherwise be diminished again because there will be no profit in it.
War are not strictly about political power, that is one aspect of it. War is also about resources, if there is no desire or no incentive to obtain those resources no one will move and what should be a factor in that decision is the troops needed to commit that effort should be a variable, as that variable can be used to leverage a mercenaries fees if efficiency in district capturing can tip the balance of that equation to warrant attacks.
Why would you want to restrict a system that gives consideration to all play styles?
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Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1266
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:I don't think it's quite fair to say something is "broken" if it doesn't happen to work exactly the way YOU want it to work. Some of us actually enjoy the politics and metagame of managing larger groups and working together as large entities to rule over the less organized and less politically motivated. The idea that how a player interacts in New Eden isn't restricted by arbitrary game mechanics is one of it's main draws and what sets it apart.
So your guys are good at the shooting bits? That means you need to work to recruit guys who are good with the politics and metagame.
Just because You don't like those aspects doesn't mean that others don't find them "fun" and doesn't mean the game should be sculpted in a way that only benefits players who want forced restrictions to slow down the corps who actually have their **** together. If you're a small corp and that is holding back your ability to get things accomplished, then you need to up your game and grow your corp.
If you don't want to wade through the politics and the metagame, I fear you are playing the wrong game.
I do, on the other hand, agree that there needs to be incentives for even the largest corps to stay in the fight and keep waging war.
I assure you, Subdreddit (and the Dust 514 arm of TEST in general) will not be sitting on our hands, we're gonna be shooting people in the face.
I'll forgive your ignorance as to the motivation for my concept. The Negative-Feedback alliance is employeed by Goons (as if anyone didn't know by now). So we have all the meta game, isk, politics, zerg force, and most importantly propaganda that we will ever need.
I have been in nullsec a long time and understand the mechanics of it way more then I ever wanted too. At the same time I have been a competative fps player on and off for about 15 years. I am just trying to find a way to bring the best parts of both together. If you actually read my idea it's a merc-centric design where effort and activity of mercs is rewardard. I dont want size to be a benefit or negative since the average fps clan/group/organization tends to be smaller.
Test picks up PRO while goons picked up IMPS. All that time on our couch and you didn't learn anything did you? SMH |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1032
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Baal Roo wrote:I don't think it's quite fair to say something is "broken" if it doesn't happen to work exactly the way YOU want it to work. Some of us actually enjoy the politics and metagame of managing larger groups and working together as large entities to rule over the less organized and less politically motivated. The idea that how a player interacts in New Eden isn't restricted by arbitrary game mechanics is one of it's main draws and what sets it apart.
So your guys are good at the shooting bits? That means you need to work to recruit guys who are good with the politics and metagame.
Just because You don't like those aspects doesn't mean that others don't find them "fun" and doesn't mean the game should be sculpted in a way that only benefits players who want forced restrictions to slow down the corps who actually have their **** together. If you're a small corp and that is holding back your ability to get things accomplished, then you need to up your game and grow your corp.
If you don't want to wade through the politics and the metagame, I fear you are playing the wrong game.
I do, on the other hand, agree that there needs to be incentives for even the largest corps to stay in the fight and keep waging war.
I assure you, Subdreddit (and the Dust 514 arm of TEST in general) will not be sitting on our hands, we're gonna be shooting people in the face. I'll forgive your ignorance as to the motivation for my concept. The Negative-Feedback alliance is employeed by Goons (as if anyone didn't know by now). So we have all the meta game, isk, politics, zerg force, and most importantly propaganda that we will ever need. I have been in nullsec a long time and understand the mechanics of it way more then I ever wanted too. At the same time I have been a competative fps player on and off for about 15 years. I am just trying to find a way to bring the best parts of both together. If you actually read my idea it's a merc-centric design where effort and activity of mercs is rewardard. I dont want size to be a benefit or negative since the average fps clan/group/organization tends to be smaller. Test picks up PRO while goons picked up IMPS. All that time on our couch and you didn't learn anything did you? SMH
I get your point, I was simply trying to provide a counterpoint that didn't seem to have been addressed yet in the thread. It was looking a bit circlejerky.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
230
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:
Just because You don't like those aspects doesn't mean that others don't find them "fun" and doesn't mean the game should be sculpted in a way that only benefits players who want forced restrictions to slow down the corps who actually have their **** together. If you're a small corp and that is holding back your ability to get things accomplished, then you need to up your game and grow your corp.
If you don't want to wade through the politics and the metagame, I fear you are playing the wrong game.
I'm going to jump in here again, and mention that you've sorta contradicted yourself here. I am in a small corp. No, I don't want to be in a large corp. Currently, nullsec in Eve has very little room for a corp like mine, which means that when you say "...doesn't mean the game should be sculpted in a way that only benefits players...", currently Eve in nullsec very much benefits mostly those players of very large corps/alliances. I don't have a problem with that BTW, other than to say that it'd be nice if there was a little more room in Eve (and maybe Dust) for us little corps to hide.
But, telling another player to not suggest crafting the game to better suit them, is kinda saying that you want the game crafted to make your playstyle dominant.
There should be a middle ground. |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1266
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote: I get your point, I was simply trying to provide a counterpoint that didn't seem to have been addressed yet in the thread. It was looking a bit circlejerky.
I tried to be as general as possible(and wanted to fit it all in one post). I want people to ask questions, offer up further ideas, and try to break it.
I am really focused on the mechanics and motivation of players to do x,y,z. At the same time leave the meta game intact.
There are still inherent benefits to being a large corp and owning 10 districts vs a small corp owning 1. You can make 10x isk (generally speaking) and have a wider array of resources to farm. You could easily bash on a corp with only 1 district endlessly and still make isk over all even if you lose over and over again.
I view my alliance/goons coalition as a big group in dust. We have no issues in putting forth effort to maintain what we will have in an active manner. The idea of sitting on passive resources is so EvE 2009 |
Yay Adski
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
160
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Blue donut= boring. I don't know about you guys but the whole idea of being mercs for hire/taking planets is what appealed to me most about this game. Take away all the raping and pillaging and you have a mediocre fps. |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1268
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:
I'm going to jump in here again, and mention that you've sorta contradicted yourself here. I am in a small corp. No, I don't want to be in a large corp. Currently, nullsec in Eve has very little room for a corp like mine, which means that when you say "...doesn't mean the game should be sculpted in a way that only benefits players...", currently Eve in nullsec very much benefits mostly those players of very large corps/alliances. I don't have a problem with that BTW, other than to say that it'd be nice if there was a little more room in Eve (and maybe Dust) for us little corps to hide.
But, telling another player to not suggest crafting the game to better suit them, is kinda saying that you want the game crafted to make your playstyle dominant.
There should be a middle ground.
This is what i care about ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Even if ccp changes nullsec to farm and fields where pilots reap rewards for effort and activity it would takes years upon years for power blocks to burn through their isk (if thats even possible)
I dont want a situation created in dust where the big power block (which i am a part of) take control and get rich like no other. We will cause inflation in the aurum secondary market and roll with balacs in pub matches for fun.
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2605
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Posted - 2013.03.30 01:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Baal Roo wrote:I don't think it's quite fair to say something is "broken" if it doesn't happen to work exactly the way YOU want it to work. Some of us actually enjoy the politics and metagame of managing larger groups and working together as large entities to rule over the less organized and less politically motivated. The idea that how a player interacts in New Eden isn't restricted by arbitrary game mechanics is one of it's main draws and what sets it apart.
So your guys are good at the shooting bits? That means you need to work to recruit guys who are good with the politics and metagame.
Just because You don't like those aspects doesn't mean that others don't find them "fun" and doesn't mean the game should be sculpted in a way that only benefits players who want forced restrictions to slow down the corps who actually have their **** together. If you're a small corp and that is holding back your ability to get things accomplished, then you need to up your game and grow your corp.
If you don't want to wade through the politics and the metagame, I fear you are playing the wrong game.
I do, on the other hand, agree that there needs to be incentives for even the largest corps to stay in the fight and keep waging war.
I assure you, Subdreddit (and the Dust 514 arm of TEST in general) will not be sitting on our hands, we're gonna be shooting people in the face. I'll forgive your ignorance as to the motivation for my concept. The Negative-Feedback alliance is employeed by Goons (as if anyone didn't know by now). So we have all the meta game, isk, politics, zerg force, and most importantly propaganda that we will ever need.I have been in nullsec a long time and understand the mechanics of it way more then I ever wanted too. At the same time I have been a competative fps player on and off for about 15 years. I am just trying to find a way to bring the best parts of both together. If you actually read my idea it's a merc-centric design where effort and activity of mercs is rewardard. I dont want size to be a benefit or negative since the average fps clan/group/organization tends to be smaller. Test picks up PRO while goons picked up IMPS. All that time on our couch and you didn't learn anything did you? SMH
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but ya pretty obv tbqh. shame tho, all that talk protoman did about "teaching" them a lesson and stompin them and now ur workin for them. so what if u got all the ISK, propaganda, politics etc? what fun is that if there is no one to stand against u? what fun is that knowing ur already on the "winning" team?
this is where me and most ppl in fps games tend to differ, i tend to take the difficult path trying to form something from scratch and work my way up through hard work and dedication. Most others dont which saddens me
idk maybe im just different but being #1 for me is boring yet its always a goal i aim for yet i never reach it so motivation to keep goin and gettin better never dies out. I still <3 u beers are we still being neighbours?
OT: i agree with beers to a point. in EVERY FPS not named lolMAG clans are usually alot smaller grps of around 20-30 ppl tops if so much. My clan was around 20 or so when we joined DUST and had to grow alot and tbqh i dont want a big zerg grp i like to know my players and build tight knit units that have fun in the game and outside as well as play other games together
forcing ppl to become zergs just to compete in a game and platform where u dont see large organisations happening is not a smart move on CCP part. Same reason why the game modes cant be 257v257 like the MAGGOTS want because ur not gonna hav a community or grps that large to field 100+ online at the same time. |
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