DUST Search - Plantary Conquest according to Beers

Gemini Reynolds wrote:

Alright, here is a continuation of what was discussed on IRC:

For those unaware, the question posed is, what does this system do for those corps that don't want land themselves, in particular, but still want to happily blow up and take the stuff of another corp?

There is the option of merc'ing out, yes. But no one is going to hire a no-name corp on faith alone, and there's always the chance that such a proposition does not suit some, or possibly even rankles to consider. There is also still the meta-game to keep in mind as well.

To put this in perspective, an example:

Player 1 is a CEO for X-Corp. X-Corp is relatively unknown, overall. One of the members of X-Corp gets into a troll/flame war on the forums with another player from Y-Corp. Player 1 decides "The hell with that" and decides to systematically destroy Y-Corp. He doesn't want their districts or land. He and X-Corp just want to smash Y-Corp.

There are several problems with the current system though (as clone counts, etc are not accounted for in the proposal, I will use the Dev-described system where applicable):

Quote:

1) X-Corp, while having good players, is mostly unknown. So they will either depend on some other Corp being charitable and hiring them in order to earn enough coin to engage another corp in battle (buying clones, equipment, etc). This raises the question; how do they earn the currency prior to engaging in war in a self-sufficient manner?

Quote:

2) A corp that maintains a district is going to, by virtue of district ownership, have a pool of clones to send in to battle. With the current system X-Corp would only have what they could purchase from the NPC's (one time) available to them. Attacking in this state, even victoriously, would be operating at a loss. This would make this style of game-play untenable.

Quote:

3) Assuming the prior two problems are solved, and they are able to attack the district successfully and repeatedly until Y-Corp is removed from it; what do they do with it? As previously stated, they don't want to deal with the care, feeding and upkeep of a district.

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This also brings to mind another question at the tail end: Were the system to support such a corp, how would another corp go about attacking them in kind? Or would the others be forced to resort to politicking and other meta-means to try and assault them?


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2204	Posted - 2013.03.29 20:46:00 - [1] - Quote Not going to try and pick apart the whole OP (because most of it is really, REALLY good), but I have to point out the 5 requirements Beers has listed. Free Beers wrote: 1 Sov must reward the individual merc, not simply a source of isk/resources for the corp/alliance (This is more of an fps player aspect) Yes. Definitely. Which is why we're also getting loot from the battlefield, with each player's share of said loot being decided by their performance and involvement in battle. Quote: 2 effort to maintain districts should scale in a linear fashion with the number of districts controlled by a corp/alliance From how PC is currently described, this is already going to be the case. In order to defend if your districts are under constant attack, a Corp will need 16 players available for 1 hour each day. If you only have a 16-player Corp, then nobody gets to take a day off unless you can hire a merc to fill their position. For each district, you need at least 16 players available for at least 1 hour each day. Your corp's member count and the timezones of each player must be considered before expanding, or you need to forge alliances (or an Alliance) to cover any shortages you might have. The reward of holding territory also scales in a linear manner, with each district having equal production capabilities. Holding 2 districts provides precisely double the potential profit that you get from holding only 1 district. Holding 5 districts means you make 5 times as much as you would from holding 1. The reward for holding territory doesn't exponentially increase as you expand. Quote: 3 Resources/isk should be utilize active mechanics when possible You don't seem to back this requirement up within your own suggestion, though... Quote: 4 The urge to fight/reward for fighting should out weigh benefits of blue donut fest I'm having to make an assumption about the "blue donut" thing, and based on context, I'm guessing that you're saying war in EVE isn't financially viable when you already hold territory. From the way DUST's Planetary Conquest model is described, that doesn't sound like it's going to be the case. And particularly while, in the early days, we're only going to be fighting across a single region of LowSec space. The number of Corps who want a slice of our battlefield will greatly outnumber the amount of districts over which we're going to be fighting. Quote: 5 The resource model needs to be random, dynamic, and include existing and new resources(must be reason for eve pilots to care about dust) THIS sounds like a better idea for future expansion than for an initial implementation of the system.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2216	Posted - 2013.03.30 03:34:00 - [2] - Quote Gemini Reynolds wrote: Alright, here is a continuation of what was discussed on IRC: For those unaware, the question posed is, what does this system do for those corps that don't want land themselves, in particular, but still want to happily blow up and take the stuff of another corp? There is the option of merc'ing out, yes. But no one is going to hire a no-name corp on faith alone, and there's always the chance that such a proposition does not suit some, or possibly even rankles to consider. There is also still the meta-game to keep in mind as well. To put this in perspective, an example: Player 1 is a CEO for X-Corp. X-Corp is relatively unknown, overall. One of the members of X-Corp gets into a troll/flame war on the forums with another player from Y-Corp. Player 1 decides "The hell with that" and decides to systematically destroy Y-Corp. He doesn't want their districts or land. He and X-Corp just want to smash Y-Corp. There are several problems with the current system though (as clone counts, etc are not accounted for in the proposal, I will use the Dev-described system where applicable): Using the dev-prescribed system as it stands now to answer these questions then... Quote: 1) X-Corp, while having good players, is mostly unknown. So they will either depend on some other Corp being charitable and hiring them in order to earn enough coin to engage another corp in battle (buying clones, equipment, etc). This raises the question; how do they earn the currency prior to engaging in war in a self-sufficient manner? Pub matches with player donations can VERY easily rais a LOT of money. With only a handful of players, a Corp one of my alts is part of has earned more than enough to afford 2 Genolution Clone Packs in a matter of weeks. We don't have the numbers to fight effectively in a PC battle, but we have the funding to do so if we choose. Also, you're assuming that no Corp will ever have room for a couple of spare players and want to bring any cheap hire they can pick up to fill out their ranks. if they're confident in their skills, and just want a few extras to make up the numbers, mercs will be valuable even if they aren't skilled players. Quote: 2) A corp that maintains a district is going to, by virtue of district ownership, have a pool of clones to send in to battle. With the current system X-Corp would only have what they could purchase from the NPC's (one time) available to them. Attacking in this state, even victoriously, would be operating at a loss. This would make this style of game-play untenable. Attack, destroy clones, maybe stall production. If you don't claim a district, you can repeat the process. Any battle where you have clones left and don't take the district, win or lose, you get a partial refund on those surviving clones. Quote: 3) Assuming the prior two problems are solved, and they are able to attack the district successfully and repeatedly until Y-Corp is removed from it; what do they do with it? As previously stated, they don't want to deal with the care, feeding and upkeep of a district. Contact another Corp with active players at the time of your victory, advise them the district is about to be abandoned, then sell off all your clones. They get a free district with no fight, and you keep it out of your rivals' hands without having to hold onto it for yourselves. Quote: This also brings to mind another question at the tail end: Were the system to support such a corp, how would another corp go about attacking them in kind? Or would the others be forced to resort to politicking and other meta-means to try and assault them? Preferentially target their players when they're running as Mercs, try to drive their costs up and their K/D and other relevant stats down. If they're attacking your Corp in a manner such as I've described, prepare a counter-attack for when they take the district, which will prevent them from selling it off, or potentially allow you to take the district when they abandon it if the timing is right.