DUST Search - Flux Nades

Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote:

I like Cross' math. I would suggest the "+10" be changed to "+V" where "V" is the variant of Flux Grenade being used.

It'd look like this: F[(S + V)/100]=D
F is the Flux Grenade's base damage
S is the Scan Profile of target
V is a numerical factor based on variant level
D is the applied damage

Some numbers to square it up.

Lets say a MLT/STD has F=300 and V=0 and we are attacking an unmodified Assault suit
300[(50 + 0)/100] = 150 applied damage (draining most MLT shields if no extenders)

Now an ADV nade has F=500 and v=5 and we are attacking the same guy
500[(50 + 5)/100] = 275 shield damage

Finally, a PRO nade has F=700 and v=10 and we are attacking the same guy
700[(50 + 10)/100] = 420

So lets tinker with the suit a bit.

Our MLT nade, again, vs. a PRO suit with 4 PRO shield extenders and decent scan profile skills. For the sake of easy arguing, lets just say that the skills and shield extender profile penalty nullify. You'd do the same damage. 150 from, what, 512 shields(66*4 plus 250)? Not real great...might need to play with some numbers.

Our PRO nade does 420 to the same suit. I'd say a PRO Flux should either completely drain all infantry shields or DAMN CLOSE.

SO lets modify the V...

Lets say a MLT/STD has F=300 and V=10 and we are attacking an unmodified Assault suit
300[(50 + 10)/100] = 180 applied damage

Now an ADV nade has F=500 and v=20 and we are attacking the same guy
500[(50 + 20)/100] = 350 shield damage

Finally, a PRO nade has F=700 and v=30 and we are attacking the same guy
700[(50 + 30)/100] = 560

There...that may be a little more like it.

Lets say a tank has a profile of...500

700[(500 + 30)/100] = 3710 damage to a HAV. Don't know if that is fair but it looks pretty good to me.

NOW, this whole system comes with a caveat. Cover doesn't apply anymore and Flux' get a AoE buff. That would make them pretty much an EMP for shields. The EM particles effecting shields could and should travel through almost anything.

This would reward skilling Grenades and make the tiers of Flux actually matter, rather than the current system in which the only benefit of higher tiered, more expensive grenades is a marginally expanded AoE.

Gunner Nightingale wrote:

As a flux user ive already mentioned the overwhelming power flux nades have on infantry. . .
. . .Moreover anyone who knows what they are doing run full squads of flux nades as they double both as a Shield vehicle deterrent and infantry deterrent. While advanced level locus nades seem nice, Often times you can wipe the shields off entire squads and they simply can't even react to it because of the short timer and the ability of flux to damage to wipe full shields off any infantry at just basic levels. . .

. . .Anyone who can't see that as a gameplay balance issue on a team level doesn't fully appreciate the game at the levels outside of 1v1. In a group firefight, nade spam with locus is one things as you can take cover to avoid damage, the same can't be said about flux. . .

TL; DR
Are flux OP, no. Do they need a bit more consideration sure. Now i need to test if enemy flux fry sheild regulators and shield recharger modules. If they don't then an argument can be made that the counter to flux is use of those modules. If they do then that is a different story in terms of balance.

Regardless flux nades should have a different nade indicator based on shape and it should have at least 5s contact timer unless cooked. The damage should be proportional. But still a single flux should be in the vicinity of 40, 60, 80% shield loss(the more you shield tank the more you lose but the proportion stays the same regardless and is effected only by nade level)

ALL infantry based on gear level of nade (std/adv/pro)

Vehicles should stay as is.

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Jathniel G I A N T 120	Posted - 2013.03.28 23:34:00 - [31] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: This basically means Jathniel that Shield tanking will result in more damage done to your shields by Flux nades. I don't know if it will be a linear function of damage to signature, as that would just equate to loss of the same % of shields, but nonetheless, more shields = more damage sustained by Flux nades. But in my honest opinion, I think that flux nades should strip out all shields within a given area of the nade and deliver severe damage to shields outside of primary area. It gives more purpose to use the Shield Regulators. I could see this being a possible solution as well. Where distance from the nade will determine the extend of dmg the flux does to the shields. Right now the standard have a 6 meter radius i believe where is does full dmg to shields and then none outside of it. If you change it so that is does 1200 dmg to 0-1.5 meters, 900 1.5-2.0 meters, 600 2.0-2.5 meters, 500 2.5 - 3.0 meters, 400 3.0- 3.5 meters, 3.5 - 6.0 meters does 300 shield dmg. This would still keep its effectiveness against vehicles and give a reason for using higher tier flux vs infantry as you would do more dmg to shields in the extreme edge of the flux. Although I still think flux nades taking sig profile into account would be a better option. Because then people who are shield tanked will take a heavier hit from a flux then someone who is armor tanked. Right now it just doesnt matter. The flux is scaled to do good dmg vs a shield HAV and it also has the benefit of completely stripping all shields from all infantry in a large AOE. I don't agree with these numbers. Tanks are actually quick moving in a match, and catching them with direct hits with the center of a flux grenade is quite challenging. These numbers will render them useless against tanks. The damage should remain the same at the 6-meter radius. I would however give you an adjustment to proto flux. With expanding it's max radius to 7.5 or 7.8, have it do 300 shield damage at the 7meter mark, and a negligible 100 shield damage at the 7.5-7.8 meter range.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits 8	Posted - 2013.03.28 23:50:00 - [32] - Quote Jathniel wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: This basically means Jathniel that Shield tanking will result in more damage done to your shields by Flux nades. I don't know if it will be a linear function of damage to signature, as that would just equate to loss of the same % of shields, but nonetheless, more shields = more damage sustained by Flux nades. But in my honest opinion, I think that flux nades should strip out all shields within a given area of the nade and deliver severe damage to shields outside of primary area. It gives more purpose to use the Shield Regulators. I could see this being a possible solution as well. Where distance from the nade will determine the extend of dmg the flux does to the shields. Right now the standard have a 6 meter radius i believe where is does full dmg to shields and then none outside of it. If you change it so that is does 1200 dmg to 0-1.5 meters, 900 1.5-2.0 meters, 600 2.0-2.5 meters, 500 2.5 - 3.0 meters, 400 3.0- 3.5 meters, 3.5 - 6.0 meters does 300 shield dmg. This would still keep its effectiveness against vehicles and give a reason for using higher tier flux vs infantry as you would do more dmg to shields in the extreme edge of the flux. Although I still think flux nades taking sig profile into account would be a better option. Because then people who are shield tanked will take a heavier hit from a flux then someone who is armor tanked. Right now it just doesnt matter. The flux is scaled to do good dmg vs a shield HAV and it also has the benefit of completely stripping all shields from all infantry in a large AOE. I don't agree with these numbers. Tanks are actually quick moving in a match, and catching them with direct hits with the center of a flux grenade is quite challenging. These numbers will render them useless against tanks. The damage should remain the same at the 6-meter radius. I would however give you an adjustment to proto flux. With expanding it's max radius to 7.5 or 7.8, have it do 300 shield damage at the 7meter mark, and a negligible 100 shield damage at the 7.5-7.8 meter range. +1 This^ I was not even aware that Flux grenades affected vehicles as all vehicles I have thrown it at have not been affected by it, because all of them move out of the way relatively quick. Asides from the flux grenades animation being bigger then the AOE I see no problems with it
Thrillhouse Van Houten DIOS EX. 51	Posted - 2013.03.29 00:01:00 - [33] - Quote I like Cross' math. I would suggest the "+10" be changed to "+V" where "V" is the variant of Flux Grenade being used. It'd look like this: F[(S + V)/100]=D F is the Flux Grenade's base damage S is the Scan Profile of target V is a numerical factor based on variant level D is the applied damage Some numbers to square it up. Lets say a MLT/STD has F=300 and V=0 and we are attacking an unmodified Assault suit 300[(50 + 0)/100] = 150 applied damage (draining most MLT shields if no extenders) Now an ADV nade has F=500 and v=5 and we are attacking the same guy 500[(50 + 5)/100] = 275 shield damage Finally, a PRO nade has F=700 and v=10 and we are attacking the same guy 700[(50 + 10)/100] = 420 So lets tinker with the suit a bit. Our MLT nade, again, vs. a PRO suit with 4 PRO shield extenders and decent scan profile skills. For the sake of easy arguing, lets just say that the skills and shield extender profile penalty nullify. You'd do the same damage. 150 from, what, 512 shields(66*4 plus 250)? Not real great...might need to play with some numbers. Our PRO nade does 420 to the same suit. I'd say a PRO Flux should either completely drain all infantry shields or DAMN CLOSE. SO lets modify the V... Lets say a MLT/STD has F=300 and V=10 and we are attacking an unmodified Assault suit 300[(50 + 10)/100] = 180 applied damage Now an ADV nade has F=500 and v=20 and we are attacking the same guy 500[(50 + 20)/100] = 350 shield damage Finally, a PRO nade has F=700 and v=30 and we are attacking the same guy 700[(50 + 30)/100] = 560 There...that may be a little more like it. Lets say a tank has a profile of...500 700[(500 + 30)/100] = 3710 damage to a HAV. Don't know if that is fair but it looks pretty good to me. NOW, this whole system comes with a caveat. Cover doesn't apply anymore and Flux' get a AoE buff. That would make them pretty much an EMP for shields. The EM particles effecting shields could and should travel through almost anything. This would reward skilling Grenades and make the tiers of Flux actually matter, rather than the current system in which the only benefit of higher tiered, more expensive grenades is a marginally expanded AoE.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.03.29 01:01:00 - [34] - Quote As a flux user ive already mentioned the overwhelming power flux nades have on infantry. The reason they have flown under the radar is two reasons. 1. People insist they are balanced since they only have effect on shields and not armor compared to locus nades. 2. They simply arent used as widely as they should be. First things first all damage radius are incorrect. For instance std locus and flux nade are 6.0m in DIAMETER not RADIUS. Even though it says radius they clearly are the diameter. Easiest way to prove this is to have two friends position themselves on either side of you in center exactly 3.0m away from you. You hold a flux nade and cook it till it detonates in your hand, the two friends will be at the edge of the bubble. Now a few things ive noticed is that the flux field is a perfect sphere but damage isnt done in a sphere and sometimes it doesnt go through objects properly but it should and often does do damage as long as you are within the field that said lately it seems as if the damage is proportional to distance to field. (A simply test would be to take two people on opposite teams and have one cook a flux while the other stands at the edge of the 3.0m radius and see if they lose all shields) Now for the last few weeks to me flux nades feel off as i used to get people with them constantly and now its as if all explosivse are off somehow. Regardless flux nades never received the contact fuse timer change the locus nades did when CCP recently changed that back to 5 seconds. Moreover anyone who knows what they are doing run full squads of flux nades as they double both as a Shield vehicle deterrent and infantry deterrent. While advanced level locus nades seem nice, Often times you can wipe the shields off entire squads and they simply can't even react to it because of the short timer and the ability of flux to damage to wipe full shields off any infantry at just basic levels. Anyone who can't see that as a gameplay balance issue on a team level doesn't fully appreciate the game at the levels outside of 1v1. In a group firefight, nade spam with locus is one things as you can take cover to avoid damage, the same can't be said about flux, I helped REG with a nade video and we have footage of the flux working through a wall. Moreover with a 2 second contact timer flux nades are far from balanced compared to locus nades. Oh and wait till you run into full teams of running nothing but flux nades and m1 locus nade and then tell me that std flux doesn't scare you more than m1 locus nades. TL; DR Are flux OP, no. Do they need a bit more consideration sure. Now i need to test if enemy flux fry sheild regulators and shield recharger modules. If they don't then an argument can be made that the counter to flux is use of those modules. If they do then that is a different story in terms of balance. Regardless flux nades should have a different nade indicator based on shape and it should have at least 5s contact timer unless cooked. The damage should be proportional. But still a single flux should be in the vicinity of 40, 60, 80% shield loss(the more you shield tank the more you lose but the proportion stays the same regardless and is effected only by nade level) ALL infantry based on gear level of nade (std/adv/pro) Vehicles should stay as is.
Jathniel G I A N T 121	Posted - 2013.03.29 02:57:00 - [35] - Quote Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote: I like Cross' math. I would suggest the "+10" be changed to "+V" where "V" is the variant of Flux Grenade being used. It'd look like this: F[(S + V)/100]=D F is the Flux Grenade's base damage S is the Scan Profile of target V is a numerical factor based on variant level D is the applied damage Some numbers to square it up. Lets say a MLT/STD has F=300 and V=0 and we are attacking an unmodified Assault suit 300[(50 + 0)/100] = 150 applied damage (draining most MLT shields if no extenders) Now an ADV nade has F=500 and v=5 and we are attacking the same guy 500[(50 + 5)/100] = 275 shield damage Finally, a PRO nade has F=700 and v=10 and we are attacking the same guy 700[(50 + 10)/100] = 420 So lets tinker with the suit a bit. Our MLT nade, again, vs. a PRO suit with 4 PRO shield extenders and decent scan profile skills. For the sake of easy arguing, lets just say that the skills and shield extender profile penalty nullify. You'd do the same damage. 150 from, what, 512 shields(664 plus 250)? Not real great...might need to play with some numbers. Our PRO nade does 420 to the same suit. I'd say a PRO Flux should either completely drain all infantry shields or DAMN CLOSE. SO lets modify the V... Lets say a MLT/STD has F=300 and V=10 and we are attacking an unmodified Assault suit 300[(50 + 10)/100] = 180 applied damage Now an ADV nade has F=500 and v=20 and we are attacking the same guy 500[(50 + 20)/100] = 350 shield damage Finally, a PRO nade has F=700 and v=30 and we are attacking the same guy 700[(50 + 30)/100] = 560 There...that may be a little more like it. Lets say a tank has a profile of...500 700[(500 + 30)/100] = 3710 damage to a HAV. Don't know if that is fair but it looks pretty good to me. NOW, this whole system comes with a caveat. Cover doesn't apply anymore and Flux' get a AoE buff. That would make them pretty much an EMP for shields. The EM particles effecting shields could and should travel through almost anything. This would reward skilling Grenades and make the tiers of Flux actually matter, rather than the current system in which the only benefit of higher tiered, more expensive grenades is a marginally expanded AoE. Finally, someone interested in balancing, and not nerfing anything that cramps their style. Given your numbers, I have a proposal. Gunner Nightingale wrote:* As a flux user ive already mentioned the overwhelming power flux nades have on infantry. . . . . .Moreover anyone who knows what they are doing run full squads of flux nades as they double both as a Shield vehicle deterrent and infantry deterrent. While advanced level locus nades seem nice, Often times you can wipe the shields off entire squads and they simply can't even react to it because of the short timer and the ability of flux to damage to wipe full shields off any infantry at just basic levels. . . . . .Anyone who can't see that as a gameplay balance issue on a team level doesn't fully appreciate the game at the levels outside of 1v1. In a group firefight, nade spam with locus is one things as you can take cover to avoid damage, the same can't be said about flux. . . TL; DR Are flux OP, no. Do they need a bit more consideration sure. Now i need to test if enemy flux fry sheild regulators and shield recharger modules. If they don't then an argument can be made that the counter to flux is use of those modules. If they do then that is a different story in terms of balance. Regardless flux nades should have a different nade indicator based on shape and it should have at least 5s contact timer unless cooked. The damage should be proportional. But still a single flux should be in the vicinity of 40, 60, 80% shield loss(the more you shield tank the more you lose but the proportion stays the same regardless and is effected only by nade level) ALL infantry based on gear level of nade (std/adv/pro) Vehicles should stay as is. I can appreciate the point of balance, you attempt to make. But the flux grenade simply cramping your style is not an argument for balance, as it does not GUARANTEE that an assailant will ALWAYS wipe out a squad of shield tanking assaults. If anything, it being used in that manner against them is an impressive maneuver. The attacker identified a key weakness in your squad (or you theirs), exploited it, and had the minimum necessary gun game to mop up. A %age-based reduction of shields is an acceptable effect, but NOT with a hand-thrown grenade as a delivery medium. (I see that being more "Flux Rounds" for a sniper rifle.) For a grenade, no, too inefficient. If one commits to throwing a grenade, it HAS to matter, and have a significant impact. Right now, if someone's shields are NOT totally neutralized, they will NOT receive the full penalty of waiting for their shield recharge to begin. You knock 80% of their shield away, for some, in a matter of 3 secs, they're already recharging. The shields MUST be brought down, for the Flux to maintain it's efficiency against infantry. PROPOSAL: A kind of variable-performance timer (think Mega Man X, 3 levels of charge up, hold for max effect). These grenades become primed and WILL NOT detonate until thrown. However, the longer you actually cook the grenade without its release the more powerful and devastating the blast becomes up to 3 stages. If you simply spam throw the grenade, it will cause 400 shield damage, and have a small 3.5m radius (ahem, excuse me, "diameter"). Panic release with partial cooking, will cause 500 shield damage at a 5m diameter... But a full cook and release will give you the full 1200+ shield damage at 7.5m diameter. (allowing them to still be effective against vehicle shields as well) This will force Flux users to be more delicate and accurate with their timing, placement, and aim, while still allowing them to deliver deadly flanking attacks.
Monkxx Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 30	Posted - 2013.03.29 03:10:00 - [36] - Quote I used to use Flux nades...but then Assault with GEK shot me, with shields down, in CQC...IN MY KNEE! On topic: flux nades needs tweaks not nerf. Their visual blast radius is confusing and Locus/AV nades are still better for AI/AV. Locus granades do damage to both shields and armor when Flux deals practically no damage to armor. I managed to get only one kill with Flux...Poor newberry never knew what hit him. It was his fault standing on top of it with low armor and no shield, I promise I didn't mean that!
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 394	Posted - 2013.03.29 16:16:00 - [37] - Quote Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote: I like Cross' math. I would suggest the "+10" be changed to "+V" where "V" is the variant of Flux Grenade being used. It'd look like this: F[(S + V)/100]=D F is the Flux Grenade's base damage S is the Scan Profile of target V is a numerical factor based on variant level D is the applied damage Some numbers to square it up. Lets say a MLT/STD has F=300 and V=0 and we are attacking an unmodified Assault suit 300[(50 + 0)/100] = 150 applied damage (draining most MLT shields if no extenders) Now an ADV nade has F=500 and v=5 and we are attacking the same guy 500[(50 + 5)/100] = 275 shield damage Finally, a PRO nade has F=700 and v=10 and we are attacking the same guy 700[(50 + 10)/100] = 420 So lets tinker with the suit a bit. Our MLT nade, again, vs. a PRO suit with 4 PRO shield extenders and decent scan profile skills. For the sake of easy arguing, lets just say that the skills and shield extender profile penalty nullify. You'd do the same damage. 150 from, what, 512 shields(66*4 plus 250)? Not real great...might need to play with some numbers. Our PRO nade does 420 to the same suit. I'd say a PRO Flux should either completely drain all infantry shields or DAMN CLOSE. SO lets modify the V... Lets say a MLT/STD has F=300 and V=10 and we are attacking an unmodified Assault suit 300[(50 + 10)/100] = 180 applied damage Now an ADV nade has F=500 and v=20 and we are attacking the same guy 500[(50 + 20)/100] = 350 shield damage Finally, a PRO nade has F=700 and v=30 and we are attacking the same guy 700[(50 + 30)/100] = 560 There...that may be a little more like it. Lets say a tank has a profile of...500 700[(500 + 30)/100] = 3710 damage to a HAV. Don't know if that is fair but it looks pretty good to me. NOW, this whole system comes with a caveat. Cover doesn't apply anymore and Flux' get a AoE buff. That would make them pretty much an EMP for shields. The EM particles effecting shields could and should travel through almost anything. This would reward skilling Grenades and make the tiers of Flux actually matter, rather than the current system in which the only benefit of higher tiered, more expensive grenades is a marginally expanded AoE. I really like this. I think it would work and it still is basing everything on the sig profile while making a significant difference between the std/adv/pro flux nades. I think that the value should have a max applied to it as it would do too much dmg to a shield HAV with your AV numbers. Depending on the sig profile you can have the same numbers they currently have be the max possible dmg. So no matter how high your sig profile is the max dmg that can be done would be 1200 for std, 1500 adv and 1800 pro (i think those numbers are correct). I think the other option of having flux nades require a charge time to be fully effective would be interesting as well but they might lose functionality against shield tanks wherease the option given by thrillhouse is by far more effective and can be balanced by tweaking small numbers if there needs to be any slight changes. BTW I am ok with a proto flux nade wiping out proto shield tankers....the issue was std flux nades easily wiping out all shields no matter your level. Oh and this is why I made this post. Because despite knowing there was an issue and listening to anothers ideas to fix it I was not sure exactly how this should be implemented but I trusted that others would have ideas where I did not.
Goon ReGnUM Immobile Infantry 7	Posted - 2013.04.05 22:18:00 - [38] - Quote fuse time needs a fix
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 89	Posted - 2013.04.06 21:48:00 - [39] - Quote Jathniel wrote: You die when (usually) armor hits 0, not when shields hit 0. Thats not how it works at all. You have "1 hp" in your actual person that also needs to be depleted before you die, it has nothing to do with your armor reaching 0. How can you try to act like you know what would help make this game balanced when you dont even know the basics of it?
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 18	Posted - 2013.04.12 20:15:00 - [40] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Jathniel wrote: You die when (usually) armor hits 0, not when shields hit 0. Thats not how it works at all. You have "1 hp" in your actual person that also needs to be depleted before you die, it has nothing to do with your armor reaching 0. How can you try to act like you know what would help make this game balanced when you dont even know the basics of it? You are right. I can run around with 0 armor and nothing but shield HP. This is the situation where a flux nade would probably kill me. I believe that the flux grenades are balanced fine, cover negating the effect can be a blessing for the guy behind it and a curse for the person throwing it. Essentially a flux grenade is a mini emp pulse. I am surprised that they don't scramble a person's HUD or comms in addition to depleting their shields. In my humble opinion, even the low level flux grenades are underpowered, in light of the fact that our suits have a lot more electronic components than just shields. Basing the damage of a pulse on signature radius seems needlessly over complicated, when a single locus grenade can kill a merc, and takes away the one useful thing about the grenade. Neutralizing the shield still leaves one with their armor so they aren't dead and can still duck and cover and recharge their shields. What the flux does is quite simple, it cancels out shields for a brief period of time, no damage is being done but yes your shields are neutralized. The Flux grenade is a suppression type weapon, not a kill weapon, to slow your enemy or at least take them down to a more reasonable level of hp when going 1v1 with them. Why change something that still doesn't kill you to something that only drains part of the shields away? Have you ever seen a kill feed with Flux Grenade beside it? Also, if you throw a flux at an assault and only neutralize a percentage of their shields then they pop right back up. No 10sec delay just as fast as their recharge rate will let them. Neutralizing all shields allows someone to take advantage of the fact that they have none and wade in guns blazing. The tactical advantage of a flux grenade is linked to the neutralization of shields. If there were no neutralization then there would be no point using them, a Locus grenade would work better.

Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 484	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:55:00 - [41] - Quote Good lord if you are going to post please know the basics. Flux grenades work through cover Flux grenades work in 3D actaully more effectively than any other explosive(md rounds and locus are pathtetic on the y and z axis) 0 armor 0 shields can be survivable but as to the reason why is pure speculation nobody knows exactly why. A individual who then proceeds to regen their shields does not die from a flux. However fluxes can kill you under certain conditions which have been reported to CCP. Lastly when grenade timers were increased from 2s to 5s contact timer, flux nades were not taken along for the ride allowing them to become the new spam nade. There was wide concensus that at a certain point the 2s timer while on an individual level maybe manageable a large force of constant nade spam with no ability or time to react was detrimental to game balance and skill, thats why FLUX NADES TIMER NEEDS FIX for all those that say its QQ clearly don't understand gameplay balance. Primarily that flux combined with CQC zerg is near impossible to defend since taking cover is not a possibility since flux works through cover. Those who say it doesnt simply dont know how to throw them end of story. Not shield tanking as an answer is about the only logical answer ive heard of and given it looks like armor plates maybe losing movement penalties then yea that maybe the appropriate defensive counter to flux but that is only one counter, when grenades allow you to utilize cover and run away which flux does not. As far as armor tanking, armor tanking simply is not a sustainable defense on its own given all the weapons that have damage bonus to armor.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 875	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:03:00 - [42] - Quote I see flux nades now as our only real hope to combat shield tankers. So in a sense, they are only OP if you shield tank.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 484	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:23:00 - [43] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I see flux nades now as our only real hope to combat shield tankers. So in a sense, they are only OP if you shield tank. LR, AR, Scrambler, all do good damage to shields. OP is not a word i like to use, unbalanced is better and the balance factors cant be simply negated by saying if it doesnt kill then it works well. There is such a thing as too good at suppression.
KA24DERT Not Guilty EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.04.16 03:11:00 - [44] - Quote If it wasn't for fluxes, my mass driver would be useless against shield tankers. I think most mass driver users rely on them heavily due to the ineffectiveness of the MD against shield. Aside from the glitches with the flux, I don't see a need to nerf them.
Meeko Fent Mercenary incorperated 77	Posted - 2013.06.19 14:54:00 - [45] - Quote Taking account sig "size" cause I forgot the other word on ALL AOE weapons? Yes.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 472	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:11:00 - [46] - Quote As long as Fluxes can't finish people up their use is situational and they are not too powerful. If they knock only shields then they are more closer to suppressive weapons. Target gets the chance to get into cover meaning giving a microtactical advantage for the user. Not too powerful that way. If they can sometimes kill the weakest (wounded) opponents, then the balance is perfect.


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