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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
329
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Posted - 2013.03.25 02:03:00 -
[31] - Quote
Laheon wrote:TokeySmugBoat wrote:20% on the Duvolle adds 6.82 damage, not 1.96. Adding proficiency V to get 35% gets you 11.93 damage.
Not quite. Damage modifiers doesn't stack quite like that. It would be 32.5 x 1.2 x 1.15. Adds up to 12.96 damage, not 11.93. GEK adds 10.4 damage in comparison.
No one said anything about stacking damage mods,rather just the total output of one complex light damage mod coupled with weaponry V.
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Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
246
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Posted - 2013.03.25 02:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:No one said anything about stacking damage mods,rather just the total output of one complex light damage mod coupled with weaponry V.
Aye, and I added AR Prof V on top of that. So it would be 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.15. No stacking of modules, just modifiers.
Edit: If you didn't have AR prof V, you'd just have a difference of 1.94, as previously stated. With AR Prof V, you'd have a difference between the Duvolle and the GEK of 2.23. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
329
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Posted - 2013.03.25 02:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:No one said anything about stacking damage mods,rather just the total output of one complex light damage mod coupled with weaponry V.
Aye, and I added AR Prof V on top of that. So it would be 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.15. No stacking of modules, just modifiers. Edit: If you didn't have AR prof V, you'd just have a difference of 1.94, as previously stated. With AR Prof V, you'd have a difference between the Duvolle and the GEK of 2.23.
2.2425 to be exact,if my math is correct.
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Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
441
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Posted - 2013.03.25 04:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
i think this is starting to miss the point, regardless of HOW MUCH better it is, it is BETTER. better gear is better?
it doesn't (and shouldn't) be a linear ratio of isk to effectiveness. if it did we'd just be throwing money at the other team. |
KalOfTheRathi
CowTek
IT Infotech
267
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Posted - 2013.03.25 07:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:[quote=Laheon]2.2425 to be exact,if my math is correct. This statement is so funny it hurts.
CCP/Shanghai has yet to do Any math correctly! How could they match what you got if you did get the math right?
Seriously, look at Skills for almost anything. Their numbers are normally off by one. Add that up over several items and it amazes me any of these things actually are beneficial. Try CPU or PG values. Always off by one.
Just to make it worse you are all doing the match ... incorrectly.
Damage is Weapon Damage * ((Weaponry Level * 5) + (Weapon Proficiency Level * whatever) + (Damage Mod1 to Mod N)).
All those extra multipliers are what might happen but so far the documentation regarding stacking is they are additive before they are multiplied.
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Thranx1231
CowTek
IT Infotech
96
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Posted - 2013.03.25 07:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:PS: nerf the laser rifle, I can't kill the lasers man with my nova knife. You should be using the HMG. The Assault HMG have longer range and when leveling up Heavy Weapon Sharpshooter can seriously surprise the laser patrol. Don't forget to have a Sniper Rifle variant Heavy Suit to take them out from a safe distance. They cannot damage anything except their pride at three hundred meters while the standard Sniper Rifle is good for 599 meters. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
629
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Posted - 2013.03.25 07:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Well let's put it in these terms, if an advanced lav had a slightly higher max speed, sliightly higher acceleration, slightly better handling and partially better traction would that make it a bit better or a major improvement over the standard |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1121
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Posted - 2013.03.25 07:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:People cry when they can't handle some situation so CCP Thor use his "Nerf hammer" and all the game get reset to 0 again. People with good gameplay will kill you with an Exile, with a Duvolle or a Gek.
People that can afford the isk cost of the proto things, use them. Because men, you want to make worth all the sp spended in the skills. Even if using a 200k proto suit has no difference with a class B with a Gek.
If you're a good player, you will be good with an advance as a proto suit. There is not a good difference between both, just the ISK difference that is stupid. But I think is better to see "Michelle Obama kills you with a Duvolle assault rifle" instead "Michelle Obama kills you with a stupid militia assault rifle".
Sorry for the english. See you.
PS: nerf the laser rifle, I can't kill the lasers man with my nova knife.
It's a big difference when an entire corporation uses nothing but the Assault Rifle and hallmarks (exploits) it's strengths to such a degree as to make it a permeable issue.
Unfortunately, the Dust 514 Development team isn't competent enough (by my estimation) to datamine the usage of all weapons/fittings as the Eve Online team does, let alone show that information publicly. So, it's likely we'll never know just how many people use them and what with (for all we know everyone stacks complex damage mods, such as the exploit goes) so there's no way for us to see a common pattern as to why they're performing so well.
It's not "what kill me is over-powered" so much as "what consistently has defeated me in entirely implausible situations at which I had every advantage is over-powered".
The Assault Rifle has the second highest DPS in the game, second only to the Heavy Machine Gun. The main difference however is that it has absolutely no drawbacks to it's use as it excels in a number of fields. There's a difference between a "staple" weapon and a weapon that trumps everything else. |
KalOfTheRathi
CowTek
IT Infotech
267
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 11:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: -- snip --
to data-mine the usage of all weapons/fittings as the Eve Online team does, let alone show that information publicly.
-- snip -- The part about this that is frustrating to me is they do have the information. How do I know?
First the removed Dev Blog clearly started 105M Hives had been purchased with ISK. Down to the last digit, not approximated like I did. So they are definitely collecting the data but they are not sharing Anything as far as I can tell. Indeed, that might even be the very reason the blog was deleted.
Second, possible, data point is I requested having a KB/M filter in the Battle Finder stating that they Have the information regarding who uses and who doesn't KB/M. If the top 40% is Only KB/M than it is obvious that they are dominant. Well, look here, they are adding a KB/M Filter to the next version of the Battle Finder. I wonder why.
My final point is when are we going to get the API such that the data is not held back arbitrarily by CCP/Shanghai? Publish it even it is requires a version change later. Let some third party do an Android, iPhone and/or iPad App. Have a web page that enables searching for the data ourselves.
But no, we are stuck where nothing is documented accurately and we get the wall of silence followed by the Wang Hammer of Doom when they Nerf yet something else. Which lately has been Ninja style with Dust Mercs discovering it and posting the changes on the Forms.
Lousy way to run an MMO. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
355
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Posted - 2013.03.25 11:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Well, I noticed tonight that I have actually been able to use the Duvolle for quite some time (for about a month). Just ignored it because I figured the CPU/PG would be out reach on a type-B. However with only one upgrade to engineering, I was able to equip it on my type-B by adding a militia CPU thingy and removing my Toxin (lvl 5 engineering took care of that however, now I can run Duvolle with my Toxin and my normal type-B setup).
And wow, on paper it may not do much more damage, but it makes a world of difference in the field. Not to mention it seems to kick a lot less than the Gek (the Gek kick was absolutely awful). I was under the impression that the kick was worse, but it is much less of a problem with the Duv than the Gek. Also seems to have more reach as well, which is nice.
Haven't got much of a chance to put it through the ropes, but so far the extra 36k ISK has been worth it. I mean heck, I've got 75 million ISK, so it's not like I am running out any time soon even if I go ISK negative every match. The matches I've played so far, 110k ISK per suit and I'm still running positive.
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
329
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Posted - 2013.03.25 12:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:2.2425 to be exact,if my math is correct. This statement is so funny it hurts. CCP/Shanghai has yet to do Any math correctly! How could they match what you got if you did get the math right? Seriously, look at Skills for almost anything. Their numbers are normally off by one. Add that up over several items and it amazes me any of these things actually are beneficial. Try CPU or PG values. Always off by one. Just to make it worse you are all doing the match ... incorrectly. Damage is Weapon Damage * ((Weaponry Level * 5) + (Weapon Proficiency Level * whatever) + (Damage Mod1 to Mod N)). All those extra multipliers are what might happen but so far the documentation regarding stacking is they are additive before they are multiplied.
Admittedly,this is true.Just look at the blast radius for locus grenades.Since when does 6 meters equal 6 feet?
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BlG MAMA
PLAYSTATION4
22
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Posted - 2013.03.25 12:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
yes and that adds to the rest of your "stuff" you use |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
259
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:All those extra multipliers are what might happen but so far the documentation regarding stacking is they are additive before they are multiplied.
Any link for this? It seems very unlikely that they'd take a change from the system used in EVE. Would be interested in finding out. |
Imp Smash
On The Brink
CRONOS.
73
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Posted - 2013.03.25 14:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
There are two parts and it is far less of an issue of damage. Actually it's the Duvolle kick and spread. It's got a different accuracy change curve. One that benefits exceptionally from letting off the trigger after a few rounds and going right back on it. Your fire rate is virtually unchanged but your bullets are far FAR more on target. Much more so than the gek. Which lets us to the second half - headshots. Sometimes you fall over in a 500 Hp suit to a militia assault in under a second. That's cause every shot was a headshot. Duvolle allows you to get a very very tight spread onto the dome meaning you get more headshots per engagement. That's why it's so good despite the math differences being so slight. The best part is - it gets what it gets due to skill. An unskilled player using a Duvolle will do the exact same as a militia assault.
Tldr the differences are subtle but effective |
mollerz
s1ck3r Corp
96
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 19:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:mollerz wrote:Also, the Duv has like zero kick. The GEK jumps around a lot (even with AR LV5), and that can make a difference at med to long range. The Duv is like shooting the laser, so staying on target is way easier... especially at longer ranges. Was under the impression that the Duvolle kicks like crazy.
Nope! Kick is fubar in this order:Exile, GeK, and then the Duv
The Duv is very stable. I'll put it this way, the iron sights are useable at full auto. I literally made an O face the first time I shot it coming from a GEK. Plus it looks super bling.
I got so used to the GEK I just went back to an Exile anyways. I rarely use the Duv, and it feels sooo good when I bust one out. I sort of got hung up on a lazer phase lately, but this thread has inspired me to dust off my Duv trunk and rock a bit of skirmish later 
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Thranx1231
CowTek
IT Infotech
96
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 00:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
@Laheon, I think the initial confusion (which has never been resolved) is because, by experimentation, DUST Mercs have found out various totals. Which do indeed operate without penalties.
The numbers I have seen indicate additive. 1 + .1 + .1 give 1.2 and not 1.21 but that may be a mistake on my part because CCP/Shanghai normally gets math off by one* so the 1.21 would show as 1.2 anyway.
However, a Dev in an interview/post, that I do not seem to be able to find currently, commented sometime around Chromosome (maybe before) that stacking penalties were bugged in that they did not have any stacking penalties at all. It read like all modules and that seem to fit with my personal experience using various modules other than damage mods.
If you would just put three damage modules in a suit the weapon modifier should make it clear. Even with the ubiquitous off by one the total should be more than 1.30. I might try that later, if I have a suit that I can do that on.
* look at your various CPU enhancing Skills and CPU modules and they are always one less than any reasonable math would indicate. Whenever I see a number that was calculated in game now I presume that it is off by one. And one is not worth getting upset about since they rarely respond to problems why would they respond to something minor even if it is pervasive? |
Lasarte Ioni
Noob Gaming
83
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Posted - 2013.03.26 00:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:2.2425 to be exact,if my math is correct. This statement is so funny it hurts. CCP/Shanghai has yet to do Any math correctly! How could they match what you got if you did get the math right? Seriously, look at Skills for almost anything. Their numbers are normally off by one. Add that up over several items and it amazes me any of these things actually are beneficial. Try CPU or PG values. Always off by one. Just to make it worse you are all doing the match ... incorrectly. Damage is Weapon Damage * ((Weaponry Level * 5) + (Weapon Proficiency Level * whatever) + (Damage Mod1 to Mod N)). All those extra multipliers are what might happen but so far the documentation regarding stacking is they are additive before they are multiplied. Admittedly,this is true.Just look at the blast radius for locus grenades.Since when does 6 meters equal 6 feet?
Gulliver's Travels? |
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