DUST Search - Tanks OP? AV UP? WRONG!

The dark cloud wrote:

Allright im going to silence now the fools who keep crying cause of tanks. There are different methods to take out tanks and in my opinion tanks are to weak at the moment. Why? lets see:

-Armor tanks:
slow moving, weak against explosive damage.
-most effective wepon: Proto swarm launcher with 3 damage mods (damage per volley around 3000HP)
-volleys to actually kill a maxed out surya apporx: 4
means you can solo a tank without reloading!

Shield tanks:
fast moving, lower HP then armor tanks, crappy recovery from alot of damage
-most effective weapon: Proto assault forgegun with 3 damage mods (damage per hit around 2400HP)
-hits to destroy a maxed out sagaris: 3-5 (depends on the fit and driver reaction time)
can aswell be soloed by a single AV guy!

This is not acceptable. AV is overpowered. This wouldnt be the case if we still would have our 25% resistance (passive) instead of the stupid 15% variants. And where ive got these stats from? From experience cause i used swarms against armor tanks and got today hit by a proto forgegun on a proto heavy while driving a sagaris (i survived that encounter barely). basically a proto heavy who spend around 290-300 grand ISK can solo a vehicle that cost 2 million isk +. I personally think that the price for a sagaris hull should drop by 50% to somewhat around 600.000 ISK instead of 1.2 million. And no i havent beeing shot by multiple heavys it was just 1 guy and i could see the HP drop cleary on my tank. Enough is enough CCP! You nerfed missiles into a useless turret, you took our resistance away but the AV stayed exactly the same. Tanks are supposed to be taken out with TEAMWORK (this means minimum 2 guys) and not getting soloed. And to the people around here claiming that their AV does nothing to a proper tank:
Stop using your free swarm launcher/forgegun loadout!

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Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 614	Posted - 2013.03.24 08:22:00 - [31] - Quote Realism =/= balance it's supposed to be an assault vehicle and therefore take some punishment which it would recieve on the frontline, justifying bullcrap kills and praising lucky occurences doesn't solve anything
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 58	Posted - 2013.03.24 08:32:00 - [32] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Realism =/= balance it's supposed to be an assault vehicle and therefore take some punishment which it would recieve on the frontline, justifying bullcrap kills and praising lucky occurences doesn't solve anything really, so av should be what, puffs of fairy dust and prayers that the allmighty tank gods don't smite your sorry ass for even thinking to bear arms against their precious ultradeathmachines?
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 82	Posted - 2013.03.24 08:35:00 - [33] - Quote Most ppl don't put any isk or sp into their lav's. Those go pop on the first hit. With a slight modification to the free lav with bpo's for a buffer fit, they can survive one hit from your average swarmer. However, I've seen ppl dump huge amounts of isk and sp into their lav's and they can survive multiple shots and are long gone before they get hit too many times. They are almost tanked like a tank. They could end up in some trouble if someone finds their murder machine annoying and gets on their proto av fit, but the average swarmer would find it rather hard to kill them. They are normally running all over the map, so prox mines are much better. The lav seems fine to me. A mobile coffin unless you put some isk into it. I am assuming that the medium class vehicles will be between a lav and hav in terms of both speed and tanking. So if you want a land vehicle with a bit more tanking ability, then the mav will probably be the option, but I'd suspect that few will use it since there is a free lav.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 614	Posted - 2013.03.24 08:38:00 - [34] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Realism =/= balance it's supposed to be an assault vehicle and therefore take some punishment which it would recieve on the frontline, justifying bullcrap kills and praising lucky occurences doesn't solve anything really, so av should be what, puffs of fairy dust and prayers that the allmighty tank gods don't smite your sorry ass for even thinking to bear arms against their precious ultradeathmachines? Are you daft or what? I'm saying it should be less effective vs lavs and dses, not nerfed to being useless against tanks
XXfootnoteXX DUST University Ivy League 155	Posted - 2013.03.24 08:39:00 - [35] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: who cares there are 2 more AV weapons coming out, 24 new dropsuits, 2 more tanks and 3 more tank modules. How can you judge and make suggestions to balance a a game that will soon more or less no exist? You have no idea the state of the internal build, so your suggestions can't even be brought to the table. Where are these numbers coming from? Guessimation?
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 58	Posted - 2013.03.24 08:43:00 - [36] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Realism =/= balance it's supposed to be an assault vehicle and therefore take some punishment which it would recieve on the frontline, justifying bullcrap kills and praising lucky occurences doesn't solve anything really, so av should be what, puffs of fairy dust and prayers that the allmighty tank gods don't smite your sorry ass for even thinking to bear arms against their precious ultradeathmachines? Are you daft or what? I'm saying it should be less effective vs lavs and dses, not nerfed to being useless against tanks why? they are free fits, should free fits give you god status? last I checked you fire a missile into virtually any car made today, it will be in a whole lotta pieces. now, step up both by a factor of a few hundred years(at the explosive growth rate of science and tech, that's probably what we're looking at.) and guess what, now you have a light vehicle that can take 4 missiles before exploding. I'd say that's progress. and note that all 4 missiles do have to hit for the kill unless you stacked damage mods out the ass.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 614	Posted - 2013.03.24 08:50:00 - [37] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Realism =/= balance it's supposed to be an assault vehicle and therefore take some punishment which it would recieve on the frontline, justifying bullcrap kills and praising lucky occurences doesn't solve anything really, so av should be what, puffs of fairy dust and prayers that the allmighty tank gods don't smite your sorry ass for even thinking to bear arms against their precious ultradeathmachines? Are you daft or what? I'm saying it should be less effective vs lavs and dses, not nerfed to being useless against tanks why? they are free fits, should free fits give you god status? last I checked you fire a missile into virtually any car made today, it will be in a whole lotta pieces. now, step up both by a factor of a few hundred years(at the explosive growth rate of science and tech, that's probably what we're looking at.) and guess what, now you have a light vehicle that can take 4 missiles before exploding. I'd say that's progress. and note that all 4 missiles do have to hit for the kill unless you stacked damage mods out the ass. Every lav I come across (which includes standard are maxed at taking 2 shots before dying. In no way is any lav god mode, even after taking Av and other vehicles out of the equation
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 61	Posted - 2013.03.24 08:59:00 - [38] - Quote Tanks are perfectly fine as is right now? I see many games where 1-2 tanks dominate a entire game. They don't need no damn buff, if you wanna do anything nerf them just for making these whiny posts.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 58	Posted - 2013.03.24 09:09:00 - [39] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Realism =/= balance it's supposed to be an assault vehicle and therefore take some punishment which it would recieve on the frontline, justifying bullcrap kills and praising lucky occurences doesn't solve anything really, so av should be what, puffs of fairy dust and prayers that the allmighty tank gods don't smite your sorry ass for even thinking to bear arms against their precious ultradeathmachines? Are you daft or what? I'm saying it should be less effective vs lavs and dses, not nerfed to being useless against tanks why? they are free fits, should free fits give you god status? last I checked you fire a missile into virtually any car made today, it will be in a whole lotta pieces. now, step up both by a factor of a few hundred years(at the explosive growth rate of science and tech, that's probably what we're looking at.) and guess what, now you have a light vehicle that can take 4 missiles before exploding. I'd say that's progress. and note that all 4 missiles do have to hit for the kill unless you stacked damage mods out the ass. Every lav I come across (which includes standard are maxed at taking 2 shots before dying. In no way is any lav god mode, even after taking Av and other vehicles out of the equation so the LIGHTLY ARMORED, MINIMALLY SHIELDED, VEHICLE dies when it meets ANTI-VEHICLE weaponry designed to fight tanks. So nerf the anti-vehicle weaponry? Why? It is doing it's job of killing vehicles.
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 157	Posted - 2013.03.24 13:11:00 - [40] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You can solo a tank, theoredically (according to your breakdown) but how long will it take? You have plenty of time to get out of harm's way. You can kill 2 infantry guys faster than they can kill you if they synced. its actually easy to solo an armor tank due to how ez mode anti armor AV is lock on lolswarms lock on lolAVnades You can't solo good tankers...so easily. If that were the case, you would never see tanks in pub matches Yes you can ive done it Its why you rarely see tanks now in skirmish because AV is strong for its basic levels but also lolinstantWBS The majority of known tankers i watch out for now tend to run n gun and will only bring out a tank to battle another tank but that tends to be the railgun tank and blap 3 shots enemy tank gone and now they have to survive the incoming WBS or if a tank is called in its a railgun tank on a hill or back in the redline with maybe a blaster tank upfront

Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1254	Posted - 2013.03.24 13:16:00 - [41] - Quote It's stupidly easy to snipe kill the tank with two AV guys at 400m. Infantry support means jack **** in that situation. One guy can barely do it, but two is basically game over. Conversely, 2 guys with AV grenades will also kill a tank in the same 5 seconds.
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 157	Posted - 2013.03.24 13:17:00 - [42] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Allright im going to silence now the fools who keep crying cause of tanks. There are different methods to take out tanks and in my opinion tanks are to weak at the moment. Why? lets see: -Armor tanks: slow moving, weak against explosive damage. -most effective wepon: Proto swarm launcher with 3 damage mods (damage per volley around 3000HP) -volleys to actually kill a maxed out surya apporx: 4 means you can solo a tank without reloading! Shield tanks: fast moving, lower HP then armor tanks, crappy recovery from alot of damage -most effective weapon: Proto assault forgegun with 3 damage mods (damage per hit around 2400HP) -hits to destroy a maxed out sagaris: 3-5 (depends on the fit and driver reaction time) can aswell be soloed by a single AV guy! This is not acceptable. AV is overpowered. This wouldnt be the case if we still would have our 25% resistance (passive) instead of the stupid 15% variants. And where ive got these stats from? From experience cause i used swarms against armor tanks and got today hit by a proto forgegun on a proto heavy while driving a sagaris (i survived that encounter barely). basically a proto heavy who spend around 290-300 grand ISK can solo a vehicle that cost 2 million isk +. I personally think that the price for a sagaris hull should drop by 50% to somewhat around 600.000 ISK instead of 1.2 million. And no i havent beeing shot by multiple heavys it was just 1 guy and i could see the HP drop cleary on my tank. Enough is enough CCP! You nerfed missiles into a useless turret, you took our resistance away but the AV stayed exactly the same. Tanks are supposed to be taken out with TEAMWORK (this means minimum 2 guys) and not getting soloed. And to the people around here claiming that their AV does nothing to a proper tank: Stop using your free swarm launcher/forgegun loadout! They did nerf the passive and all pasive mods btw by a good 50% but also we used to have 4 mods of each, now we only have 3 we have less fitting options because of this Only 2 turrets aswell now Sure we have amarr and minmatar tanks coming in but they will be the same price and have around the same stats and H/L slots When artillery turrets are added the community will cry very ***** hard when that tank can sit in the redline and spam shots over the entire map If BO HAVs get added back along with a working cloak the tears will be epic The community is general wants to kill a HAV with an AR, in the builds back when we had strong tanks with strong resistances it required a good 3man team with at least advanced AV gear to hurt it, now it takes 1 guy Its going the way of BF3, every vehicle in that game got nerfed to ** so you could take it out in 1 shot or 2 solo
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 215	Posted - 2013.03.24 13:28:00 - [43] - Quote Solution: Modify explosion radii and signature radii. A tank has a sig radii of what, 8-9m? Can't find the stats on them. A dropship probably has about 5-6. An LAV probably has 4-5. So have militia SL's have an explosion radius equal to that of a tank. It automatically does less damage to LAV's and DS's, and have proto launchers have an explosion radius of 6 or 7. All SL's do the same damage to tanks, but automatically do less to DS's and LAV"s. Although, this has the downside of causing AoE damage, for example, to surrounding troops. But that's kind of expected from an explosion, no?
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.03.24 22:23:00 - [44] - Quote Rifter7 wrote: having a signature radius and explosion velocity for swarm launchers and glancing/wrecking shot system for forge guns similar to eve onlines for smaller vehicles and dropships would be nice. those missiles are pretty small tho and vehicles dont really move fast enough.. idk. holy **** there's a rational person on the forums
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 807	Posted - 2013.03.24 23:59:00 - [45] - Quote low genius wrote: Rifter7 wrote: having a signature radius and explosion velocity for swarm launchers and glancing/wrecking shot system for forge guns similar to eve onlines for smaller vehicles and dropships would be nice. those missiles are pretty small tho and vehicles dont really move fast enough.. idk. holy **** there's a rational person on the forums BS
Sev Alcatraz The Tritan Industries 200	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:09:00 - [46] - Quote why do people keep calling the sagaris a proto tank when it is only an advanced variation?
Sev Alcatraz The Tritan Industries 200	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:13:00 - [47] - Quote i have a sagaris with maxed shields and pg/cpu the second i get 2 guys with scatter mine swarms im screwed, 1 guy with an assault forge gun on a building higher then my gun can aim and im screwed...tanks need a much needed buff
Gelan Corbaine BetaMax. CRONOS. 115	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:21:00 - [48] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: It's stupidly easy to snipe kill the tank with two AV guys at 400m. Infantry support means jack **** in that situation. One guy can barely do it, but two is basically game over. Conversely, 2 guys with AV grenades will also kill a tank in the same 5 seconds. Uh huh and just how many seconds does it take the tank to kill two guys ?
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 164	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:30:00 - [49] - Quote Gelan Corbaine wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: It's stupidly easy to snipe kill the tank with two AV guys at 400m. Infantry support means jack **** in that situation. One guy can barely do it, but two is basically game over. Conversely, 2 guys with AV grenades will also kill a tank in the same 5 seconds. Uh huh and just how many seconds does it take the tank to kill two guys ? At 400m away about 2 years if he doesnt have a railgun but even then its prob a gd 5mins If its railgun tank and they have AV then about 2 years since the turret got nerfed so moving it takes too long, if its a blaster tank then if the AV are hugging the tank or hiding behind industructable stuff and launch AV over the cover which home in on tha tank then never if they keep moving Either way the best option is to move away and find proper cover
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 221	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:51:00 - [50] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Gelan Corbaine wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: It's stupidly easy to snipe kill the tank with two AV guys at 400m. Infantry support means jack **** in that situation. One guy can barely do it, but two is basically game over. Conversely, 2 guys with AV grenades will also kill a tank in the same 5 seconds. Uh huh and just how many seconds does it take the tank to kill two guys ? At 400m away about 2 years if he doesnt have a railgun but even then its prob a gd 5mins If its railgun tank and they have AV then about 2 years since the turret got nerfed so moving it takes too long, if its a blaster tank then if the AV are hugging the tank or hiding behind industructable stuff and launch AV over the cover which home in on tha tank then never if they keep moving Either way the best option is to move away and find proper cover So what you're saying is you can't just sit there and kill, you have to actually drive tactically and "find proper cover" when there's AV on the field ! You mean like an entire team of infantry has to hange their tactics and use cover when there's a HAV on the field ! There's nothing wrong with AV versus HAVs ... proto AV makes mince meat of militia and basic HAVs, advanced Sagaris and Surya are more tricky and proto HAVs will require teamwork of proto AV As the op stated his problem is with the way damage is being inflicted to LAVs, I have no idea myself as I don't think I've seen anything but Starter Fit LAVs yet.

Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 164	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:54:00 - [51] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Gelan Corbaine wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: It's stupidly easy to snipe kill the tank with two AV guys at 400m. Infantry support means jack **** in that situation. One guy can barely do it, but two is basically game over. Conversely, 2 guys with AV grenades will also kill a tank in the same 5 seconds. Uh huh and just how many seconds does it take the tank to kill two guys ? At 400m away about 2 years if he doesnt have a railgun but even then its prob a gd 5mins If its railgun tank and they have AV then about 2 years since the turret got nerfed so moving it takes too long, if its a blaster tank then if the AV are hugging the tank or hiding behind industructable stuff and launch AV over the cover which home in on tha tank then never if they keep moving Either way the best option is to move away and find proper cover So what you're saying is you can't just sit there and kill, you have to actually drive tactically and "find proper cover" when there's AV on the field ! You mean like an entire team of infantry has to hange their tactics and use cover when there's a HAV on the field ! There's nothing wrong with AV versus HAVs ... proto AV makes mince meat of militia and basic HAVs, advanced Sagaris and Surya are more tricky and proto HAVs will require teamwork of proto AV As the op stated his problem is with the way damage is being inflicted to LAVs, I have no idea myself as I don't think I've seen anything but Starter Fit LAVs yet. What im saying is unless i have diff turrets i cant kill the bastards hiding on the mountain or deal with them behind a hill and lauching auto homing AV nades so either way into the redline i go or whatever
Gelan Corbaine BetaMax. CRONOS. 115	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:02:00 - [52] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: At 400m away about 2 years if he doesnt have a railgun but even then its prob a gd 5mins If it takes you five minutes to kill someone at 400 yards with a rail then I'm sorry but you aint even a semi decent tanker. Quote: If its railgun tank and they have AV then about 2 years since the turret got nerfed so moving it takes too long, if its a blaster tank then if the AV are hugging the tank or hiding behind industructable stuff and launch AV over the cover which home in on tha tank then never if they keep moving If you are close up in a railgun tank again you are doing it wrong . SL's have to step out of cover to get a lock on you . and FG's to shoot at you . If they are hugging your tank which can drive off faster than they can sprint . Well that is what infantry support is for aint it. Quote: Either way the best option is to move away and find proper cover Failing to see the problem here .
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 164	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:06:00 - [53] - Quote Gelan Corbaine wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: At 400m away about 2 years if he doesnt have a railgun but even then its prob a gd 5mins If it takes you five minutes to kill someone at 400 yards with a rail then I'm sorry but you aint a even a semi decent tanker. Quote: If its railgun tank and they have AV then about 2 years since the turret got nerfed so moving it takes too long, if its a blaster tank then if the AV are hugging the tank or hiding behind industructable stuff and launch AV over the cover which home in on tha tank then never if they keep moving If you are close up in a railgun tank again you are doing it wrong . SL's have to step out of cover to get a lock on you . and FG's to shoot at you . If they are hugging your tank which can drive off faster than they can sprint . Well that is what infantry support is for aint it. Quote: Either way the best option is to move away and find proper cover Failing to see the problem here . Doesnt get sarcasm But the railgun has travel time and requires a direct hit at 400m not counting shell depression meaning you have to aim above your target slighly and hopefully they stand still which doesnt happen, splash damage is alo a no aswell SL step out of cover, for a second while on the mountain jumping 400m away, if they up close you use AV nades, FG charge fire not hard but in general spam AV nades
Gelan Corbaine BetaMax. CRONOS. 115	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:33:00 - [54] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Doesnt get sarcasm But the railgun has travel time and requires a direct hit at 400m not counting shell depression meaning you have to aim above your target slighly and hopefully they stand still which doesnt happen, splash damage is alo a no aswell SL step out of cover, for a second while on the mountain jumping 400m away, if they up close you use AV nades, FG charge fire not hard but in general spam AV nades Oh goooood the travel time of a freaking rail shot is sooooooooooo long whhhy ?!!!!! I mean those missiles and forge shots are instant no ? It's not like they have to hit you several times while you only have to hit them once ! Again a guy running out with a nade in his hand is for a second aint shooting at your infantry support .... so what they doing eh ?
Zekain Kade BetaMax. CRONOS. 1057	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:56:00 - [55] - Quote As a dedicated AV guy. I can safely say that Tanks are not over powered. The odds of you destroying a Sagaris with a militia forge gun is small, and it should be. The odds of you destroying a Sagaris with a proto forge gun is actually quite high. Assuming all your shots can hit him in time. It can take around 5-6 shots to kill one. Even less if you hit their weak spots. the same can be said with armor tanks and swarms. CCP needs to stop comparing the weakest AV weaponry against the strongest vehicles in the game. It leaves no wiggle room for any other vehicle when it comes to balance. I mean, look at LAV's and dropships. They're both paper thin against militia Av weaponry, which is absolutely ********.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Legacy Rising 58	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:07:00 - [56] - Quote It takes 4 volleys to kill you, that assumes every missile hits, and you don't kill them before that. It takes how long to ready each shot and get a lock. How is that even make tanks remotely underpowered. A few weapons in the game exist that can solo them, requiring the tank still to stand stillf for a while.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Legacy Rising 58	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:07:00 - [57] - Quote repost
Banjo Robertson The Tritan Industries 1	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:31:00 - [58] - Quote The only buff I'd like to see for tanks is to lock the doors keeping blueberries from hopping into my tank and constantly giving away my position by firing missiles at the MCC, kitten jerks. Or just remove the requirement to have 2 small turrets so these kittens don't have anything to fire at all. Its difficult to sneak up on anyone with eyes in your railgun tank with kittens like this running around.
Sada Mokmo DUST University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:50:00 - [59] - Quote So, if the tank just keeps poking in and out of a spot where there is no other angle to attack it unless you have a whole squad of heavies to clear the way (lol), you won't get to it ? I just came out of a skirmish that had three levels of tank, from Militia to Proto. Obviously the Militia melted and surprisingly the Proto, although he was seemingly a lone wolf at the start, began to have a following of half a dozen assault guys following him at some point. Unstoppable is this exact situation. (Also: it seems caldari tanks can climb up to Manus Peak lol)
Banjo Robertson The Tritan Industries 1	Posted - 2013.03.25 04:07:00 - [60] - Quote Climbing up the peak isnt that hard, even without a turbo booster, if you are used to it, though I swear I've seen some people just climb up there as infantry and have their tank RDV dropped right ontop of the peak.



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