It's very easy to see, especially in Ambush games, how much of a powerhouse a properly fitted tank is. It's not at all uncommon to see tank drivers go 15/1, 20/1, or upwards. The dynamics between tank and infantry are so poorly balanced that it was the reason I stopped playing in September. At the behest of a friend, I picked it back up two weeks or so ago, and was so sadly disappointed that the state of armored warfare still has not changed at all.

I would first like to bring to your attention the aspect of merc versus merc. A high-SP merc with high-tier gear can still be taken down by a low-SP low-tier gear player, even more easily if the low-SP character gets the jump on the high-SP player.

This does not translate at all into merc versus tank, even with several AV players. Right now my character is being specced for AV, with around 800k+ SP into related skills. The highest damage Forge Gun available to me right now is the Breach Forge Gun, with does 2100 damage but immobilizes me, making me choose between staying still behind cover and hoping the tank driver wanders past, or exposing myself in order to get a clear shot at the tank and hoping that I do not get killed during the 6-second charge up time. Even if I am lucky enough to get one shot off, the tank either kills me before I can finish charging the next shot or the tank runs away before my next shot is charged. If this is the premier anti-tank weapon, it is a very poor choice. The other Forge Guns are equally ineffective against tanks, often taking an entire magazine just to bring down the shields.

And even when other low-SP low-gear players join in the AV efforts, their Militia Swarm Launchers are practically useless, thanks to the still-somewhat-dodgy spread mechanism the launchers possess and the low damage they possess.

And if you are an low-spec AV player and the tank runs or, by some miracle, is destroyed, you are nearly useless to your team, as all you are armed with is an AV weapon and a pistol (if you even fit a pistol to your suits).

The reward for AV is not nearly high enough and is not easily obtained, while the reward for tank drivers is astronomical and is obtained with little to no work at all.

I managed to join into the beta during the E3 giveaway. I am saddened that this problem (along with the horrifically frustrating spawn issues) have not been fixed, and I cannot regret enough the money I spent on this game thinking it would be something great, because so far, after a year, little has been done in the way of balancing vehicles versus infantry, if anything at all.

It's very easy to see, especially in Ambush games, how much of a powerhouse a properly fitted tank is. It's not at all uncommon to see tank drivers go 15/1, 20/1, or upwards. The dynamics between tank and infantry are so poorly balanced that it was the reason I stopped playing in September. At the behest of a friend, I picked it back up two weeks or so ago, and was so sadly disappointed that the state of armored warfare still has not changed at all.

I would first like to bring to your attention the aspect of merc versus merc. A high-SP merc with high-tier gear can still be taken down by a low-SP low-tier gear player, even more easily if the low-SP character gets the jump on the high-SP player.

This does not translate at all into merc versus tank, even with several AV players. Right now my character is being specced for AV, with around 800k+ SP into related skills. The highest damage Forge Gun available to me right now is the Breach Forge Gun, with does 2100 damage but immobilizes me, making me choose between staying still behind cover and hoping the tank driver wanders past, or exposing myself in order to get a clear shot at the tank and hoping that I do not get killed during the 6-second charge up time. Even if I am lucky enough to get one shot off, the tank either kills me before I can finish charging the next shot or the tank runs away before my next shot is charged. If this is the premier anti-tank weapon, it is a very poor choice. The other Forge Guns are equally ineffective against tanks, often taking an entire magazine just to bring down the shields.

And even when other low-SP low-gear players join in the AV efforts, their Militia Swarm Launchers are practically useless, thanks to the still-somewhat-dodgy spread mechanism the launchers possess and the low damage they possess.

And if you are an low-spec AV player and the tank runs or, by some miracle, is destroyed, you are nearly useless to your team, as all you are armed with is an AV weapon and a pistol (if you even fit a pistol to your suits).

The reward for AV is not nearly high enough and is not easily obtained, while the reward for tank drivers is astronomical and is obtained with little to no work at all.

I managed to join into the beta during the E3 giveaway. I am saddened that this problem (along with the horrifically frustrating spawn issues) have not been fixed, and I cannot regret enough the money I spent on this game thinking it would be something great, because so far, after a year, little has been done in the way of balancing vehicles versus infantry, if anything at all.

An advanced assault forge gun can tear through a sagaris in 2 clips. Thats around 8-10 shots i think. If you arer placed in a good position. You would be able to kill that tank in about a minute. And that's just soloing it. If you have a partner, that tank will die extremely fast.


Everyone whines that tanks are OP because no one will bother to spec into the higher leveled Av weaponry.

It takes 2 shots to kill s Sica with an AVD assault forge gun.
It takes around 4 shots to kill a Sica with a Milita Forge gun.

It's very easy to see, especially in Ambush games, how much of a powerhouse a properly fitted tank is. It's not at all uncommon to see tank drivers go 15/1, 20/1, or upwards. The dynamics between tank and infantry are so poorly balanced that it was the reason I stopped playing in September. At the behest of a friend, I picked it back up two weeks or so ago, and was so sadly disappointed that the state of armored warfare still has not changed at all.

I would first like to bring to your attention the aspect of merc versus merc. A high-SP merc with high-tier gear can still be taken down by a low-SP low-tier gear player, even more easily if the low-SP character gets the jump on the high-SP player.

This does not translate at all into merc versus tank, even with several AV players. Right now my character is being specced for AV, with around 800k+ SP into related skills. The highest damage Forge Gun available to me right now is the Breach Forge Gun, with does 2100 damage but immobilizes me, making me choose between staying still behind cover and hoping the tank driver wanders past, or exposing myself in order to get a clear shot at the tank and hoping that I do not get killed during the 6-second charge up time. Even if I am lucky enough to get one shot off, the tank either kills me before I can finish charging the next shot or the tank runs away before my next shot is charged. If this is the premier anti-tank weapon, it is a very poor choice. The other Forge Guns are equally ineffective against tanks, often taking an entire magazine just to bring down the shields.

And even when other low-SP low-gear players join in the AV efforts, their Militia Swarm Launchers are practically useless, thanks to the still-somewhat-dodgy spread mechanism the launchers possess and the low damage they possess.

And if you are an low-spec AV player and the tank runs or, by some miracle, is destroyed, you are nearly useless to your team, as all you are armed with is an AV weapon and a pistol (if you even fit a pistol to your suits).

The reward for AV is not nearly high enough and is not easily obtained, while the reward for tank drivers is astronomical and is obtained with little to no work at all.

I managed to join into the beta during the E3 giveaway. I am saddened that this problem (along with the horrifically frustrating spawn issues) have not been fixed, and I cannot regret enough the money I spent on this game thinking it would be something great, because so far, after a year, little has been done in the way of balancing vehicles versus infantry, if anything at all.

It's very easy to see, especially in Ambush games, how much of a powerhouse a properly fitted tank is. It's not at all uncommon to see tank drivers go 15/1, 20/1, or upwards. The dynamics between tank and infantry are so poorly balanced that it was the reason I stopped playing in September. At the behest of a friend, I picked it back up two weeks or so ago, and was so sadly disappointed that the state of armored warfare still has not changed at all.

I would first like to bring to your attention the aspect of merc versus merc. A high-SP merc with high-tier gear can still be taken down by a low-SP low-tier gear player, even more easily if the low-SP character gets the jump on the high-SP player.

True

]This does not translate at all into merc versus tank, even with several AV players. Right now my character is being specced for AV, with around 800k+ SP into related skills. The highest damage Forge Gun available to me right now is the Breach Forge Gun, with does 2100 damage but immobilizes me, making me choose between staying still behind cover and hoping the tank driver wanders past, or exposing myself in order to get a clear shot at the tank and hoping that I do not get killed during the 6-second charge up time. Even if I am lucky enough to get one shot off, the tank either kills me before I can finish charging the next shot or the tank runs away before my next shot is charged. If this is the premier anti-tank weapon, it is a very poor choice. The other Forge Guns are equally ineffective against tanks, often taking an entire magazine just to bring down the shields.

And even when other low-SP low-gear players join in the AV efforts, their Militia Swarm Launchers are practically useless, thanks to the still-somewhat-dodgy spread mechanism the launchers possess and the low damage they possess.

And if you are an low-spec AV player and the tank runs or, by some miracle, is destroyed, you are nearly useless to your team, as all you are armed with is an AV weapon and a pistol (if you even fit a pistol to your suits).

The reward for AV is not nearly high enough and is not easily obtained, while the reward for tank drivers is astronomical and is obtained with little to no work at all.

I managed to join into the beta during the E3 giveaway. I am saddened that this problem (along with the horrifically frustrating spawn issues) have not been fixed, and I cannot regret enough the money I spent on this game thinking it would be something great, because so far, after a year, little has been done in the way of balancing vehicles versus infantry, if anything at all.

Tanks are a hard counter to infantry what more can you say ????

I am not a tank pilot. I have never even driven a tank in this game. I have however been killed countless times by tanks.

I disagree with the OP. I think the tanks are pretty well balanced at the moment. I have almost all my SP into logistics right now but that hasn't stopped me from picking up weaponry V (worth it for the dmg boost alone) and Forge Gun II.

Now there are two types of tanks I run into in the world of Dust.

1. The cheap fit:
The cheap fit is the new player or the poor players tank choice. Simply switch to my forge gun suit and bing bang BOOM tank is gone! Never had trouble beating this tank

2. The proto fit:
This player has spent a lot of time and ISK to make this tank good. They have huge amounts of armor or shield. They are blasting everyone to bits so I switch to my forge gunner and bing bang fizz ... OH SHOOT that is a LOT of shield. So then my squad leader switches to his AV grenades and another player in my squad switched to the MLT swarm launcher FREE fitting, and all 3 of us make short work of the tank. Sure there may be a few casualties, but that's only fair as the ISK/Kills ratio is about the same. You should never be able to "solo" a proto fit tank ESPECIALLY with a low SP AV class. That my friend is "imbalance" at its finest

However some of THE BEST feelings in the game come from getting together with your team and blowing up a REALLY expensive tank and knowing that you just blew a giant hole in their wallet! Then doing it again because they brought out a second one!

So get a team and co-ordinate to get this tank off the battlefield, and if your response is I don't want to have to be in a team then it's not that the tank is imbalanced ... it's that you are playing this game wrong!

Thank you for such a clarifying post from an infantry perspective.

That being said from a tank perspective there is nothing more than having over 8 people chasing my tank down with swarms, and forges, and even dropping 2 Orbis in an attempt to kill me.... sometimes they do, last night they didn't.

WTF Pub stomps happen someimes because the enemy team is so disorganized, such as a match last night wherein Stella (my Logi) and I blew up 4 Madrugers and a Gunloggi, as well as surviving by a hair (50 armor?) at the end of the match as 90% of the team was AVing and dropping an Orbi on top of me.... You have your good games ;-)..

The match after that I got blown up randomly by a militia swarm launcher as I was tanking a dedicated AV nade assault.

The "Point" of a tank honestly isnt to kill all infantry but moreover to force your team to make a choice, Av or AI?

If you chose AV, you've just become a target for AI, as just about anone can shoot you in the face....which on the rare occasion I make a point of by jumping out of the tank and "Toxin" SMGing the swarmer in my low militia module fit before happily jumping back in the tank. Its basically rock (tank) paper (Av) Scissors (AI).

Sadly Ive had so many games that despite the fact ive got 9 swarm launchers on my ass, the blueberries cant take a hint and get free kills. So that being said, with all this new knowledge on this post, can you further clarify what isnt balanced and needs a nerf?

Well it all depends. Advanced Assault forge guns run like 1200 damage i think, with a 2.5 second charge time? Forge gun hitting shield tanks give it an instant 30% damage boost (same with swarms hitting armor) so thats 1560 damage every 2.5 seconds, that is not including A: the +% damage from Weaponry and if you have it Forge Gun Prof. plus any damage mods you have.

If we go off the base stats, a shield tank with around 40% resistance will take still 1400 damage or so (again some tanks run no resistance some tanks use active of 75% so 40 is in the middle) and that would take (most good shield tanks are 5500 shield 1000 armor, or so) you about 4-5 shots depending on the other damage buffs you have. That's 10-12.5 seconds.

If you have a buddy, the time cuts in half.

For amor tanks obiously you run up and chuck AV Nades at a 130% damage bonus. Forge guns don't do much against armor, i suggest AV nades because Armor is slow you can get off 3-5 before he can get out of range. And then swarm him while he's running.

Tanks aren't the problem, it's the men on foot that decide a battle. If the tanks team is terrible the tank WILL die, Whenever I called in a tank, no matter what fitting I use or hpw careful I can be, if my team is terrible and can't play the game (which apperntly feels like everyone who isn't in your squad, am I right?)

If a squad is able to get upto you, then your pretty ****** since tank turrets in the fututre can't aim low (wtf that NEEDS fixing)

Seriously when I see like 4 people able to make a clean run to my tank without my team even firing a shot at them then it's a pretty bad team and I just leave and hope for a better class of monkeys on my team next game.

Can I recommend using a nitro as well as small hills to inclie your shots at them?

As far as blueberries are concerned, I wish we had a game mode that threw some type of prelevel testing or iq quiz before granting entry... Too often do I have 80% of the enemy militia swarming and 90% of my team as infantry 0/5. How that's even possible is beyond me.