DUST Search - [Request] REASONABLE Respec option

Maken Tosch wrote:

Gunnut88 wrote:

KalOfTheRathi wrote:

No.

This is New Eden. You live with your decisions. They have consequences. Think. Then Act.

That is why I suggested it the way I did so that it is not spammable and requires some serious thinking before it could be used. The lack of information about specific skills and what they do as well as a lack of information on the core skills means alot of people don't have enough info on how to build a toon that will work for them long term. This would allow those people to repair some of the damage done.

I am so sick and tired of this whole 'we weren't well informed' excuse. All the tools are there. The forums, the community third-party bloggers, the local channel, etc. if you don't bother to ask first which skill to invest in and you go in blindly spending SP away, it's your damn fault. I live with my mistakes. Hell, I have invested SP into skills that many folks here see as useless but I don't complain nor make a thread asking for an undo button.

Choices must be meaningful and in order to do that you need permanent consequences regardless if you were informed or not. The only time CCP may allow a respec even once is if anything drastic was changed. What you are proposing is an option to respec

No. I don't approve.

Pages: 1 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Gunnut88 DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.03.15 00:50:00 - [1] - Quote I think a reasonable option would be to have a token that can only be purchased twice per character. I think making it cost 40,000 aurum the first time and 100,000 the second and last time
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 224	Posted - 2013.03.15 00:54:00 - [2] - Quote No. This is New Eden. You live with your decisions. They have consequences. Think. Then Act.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 374	Posted - 2013.03.15 01:51:00 - [3] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: No. This is New Eden. You live with your decisions. They have consequences. Think. Then Act. +1. It's about commitment.
Gunnut88 DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.03.15 02:05:00 - [4] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: No. This is New Eden. You live with your decisions. They have consequences. Think. Then Act. That is why I suggested it the way I did so that it is not spammable and requires some serious thinking before it could be used. The lack of information about specific skills and what they do as well as a lack of information on the core skills means alot of people don't have enough info on how to build a toon that will work for them long term. This would allow those people to repair some of the damage done.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 469	Posted - 2013.03.15 02:09:00 - [5] - Quote Talk about pay to use the FOTM
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1242	Posted - 2013.03.15 02:15:00 - [6] - Quote The only thing worse than having a respec option to begin with is suggesting that it should only be sold for AURUM. It took us months to shut the P2W crowd up, and I don't want them having more ammunition to start bitching again. This system is fine as it is. Just make your SP related decisions wisely and not impulsively.
Gunnut88 DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.03.15 02:50:00 - [7] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Talk about pay to use the FOTM The way I suggested it would very much limit FOTM with the high price and once or twice per toon or even per account.
Prestor Moan United Tactics 3	Posted - 2013.03.15 02:53:00 - [8] - Quote NO!
Gunnut88 DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.03.15 02:57:00 - [9] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: The only thing worse than having a respec option to begin with is suggesting that it should only be sold for AURUM. It took us months to shut the P2W crowd up, and I don't want them having more ammunition to start bitching again. This system is fine as it is. Just make your SP related decisions wisely and not impulsively. Unfortunately not alot of people use the forums or were able to login to forums when they first started playing in order to ask questions. I know when I first started when i tried to login to the forums it always took me to EVE free trial page. This would allow those who now know better about the skills to more fine tune their build for perhaps much better performance. This would in no way be P2W because skill would still win out.
Wojciak Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire 0	Posted - 2013.03.15 03:00:00 - [10] - Quote the only time they should have respecting is when they add the racial variants or the drop suits, and they should only give you the sp you have in drop suits.

Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 469	Posted - 2013.03.15 04:55:00 - [11] - Quote Your scenario just limits the FOTM switching, it's better not to have it at all
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1692	Posted - 2013.03.15 04:57:00 - [12] - Quote Gunnut88 wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: No. This is New Eden. You live with your decisions. They have consequences. Think. Then Act. That is why I suggested it the way I did so that it is not spammable and requires some serious thinking before it could be used. The lack of information about specific skills and what they do as well as a lack of information on the core skills means alot of people don't have enough info on how to build a toon that will work for them long term. This would allow those people to repair some of the damage done. I am so sick and tired of this whole 'we weren't well informed' excuse. All the tools are there. The forums, the community third-party bloggers, the local channel, etc. if you don't bother to ask first which skill to invest in and you go in blindly spending SP away, it's your damn fault. I live with my mistakes. Hell, I have invested SP into skills that many folks here see as useless but I don't complain nor make a thread asking for an undo button. Choices must be meaningful and in order to do that you need permanent consequences regardless if you were informed or not. The only time CCP may allow a respec even once is if anything drastic was changed. What you are proposing is an option to respec No. I don't approve.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 41	Posted - 2013.03.15 06:34:00 - [13] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Gunnut88 wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: No. This is New Eden. You live with your decisions. They have consequences. Think. Then Act. That is why I suggested it the way I did so that it is not spammable and requires some serious thinking before it could be used. The lack of information about specific skills and what they do as well as a lack of information on the core skills means alot of people don't have enough info on how to build a toon that will work for them long term. This would allow those people to repair some of the damage done. I am so sick and tired of this whole 'we weren't well informed' excuse. All the tools are there. The forums, the community third-party bloggers, the local channel, etc. if you don't bother to ask first which skill to invest in and you go in blindly spending SP away, it's your damn fault. I live with my mistakes. Hell, I have invested SP into skills that many folks here see as useless but I don't complain nor make a thread asking for an undo button. Choices must be meaningful and in order to do that you need permanent consequences regardless if you were informed or not. The only time CCP may allow a respec even once is if anything drastic was changed. What you are proposing is an option to respec No. I don't approve. The tools might be there but not everybody knows how to use them. The way a respec should work is like when somebody retrains for a job they haven't done in years or even just a few months. For example: Three months ago I started learning how to use a 3D application called Sketchup. I went through a few days of making stuff and watching tutorials then I had to leave it for a while to do something else. I went back to Sketchup a week ago and found that only the basic knowledge remained, none of the more advanced stuff because I didn't stick with it or learn it for long enough. The same is true in Dust, if you learn a skill and don't use it you should be able to forget it in some capacity.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 202	Posted - 2013.03.15 07:22:00 - [14] - Quote We already have a respec option. Biomass your char and you will get a new one! Yoou will also be able to skill again whatever you like! Isn't that awesome?
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 41	Posted - 2013.03.15 08:40:00 - [15] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: We already have a respec option. Biomass your char and you will get a new one! Yoou will also be able to skill again whatever you like! Isn't that awesome? And lose all your skill points? Awesome is not the word that comes to mind.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 635	Posted - 2013.03.15 08:48:00 - [16] - Quote Honestly SP is never "Wasted", aside from a few skills, almost everything you train will be useful at some point. Plus there is no SP cap, so it's not like you're limited from optimizing a character because you put SP in a place you would have rather not. I mean how much SP could you have "wasted" at this point? The Open Beta has not been up very long, so any SP you put in the "wrong" places can easily be re-earned in a reasonable amount of time. But in short, no, respeccing should simply not happen, regardless of how costly it is. New Eden is a world of consequences, some minor and some major, but you should always have to live with the choices you make. It's a harsh and cruel world, but that's what makes it great.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 260	Posted - 2013.03.15 09:12:00 - [17] - Quote This idea is the very definition of P2W.
Shledder Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 5	Posted - 2013.03.15 09:42:00 - [18] - Quote Personally I support the idea of a respec, I feel like the only reasons opposing it are people heavy into self-actualization and EVE lore. Rather than Aurum for a respec, I propose I different option: Players can respec any time they choose, however they are only refunded SP - (n^4)*1000 [where n is which time the player is respecing] An example: A player has earned 3 million SP and it is their 4th time respecing. This means they will be forfeiting 256,000 SP for this respec plus the other 3 (98,000). This means our player who has earned a lifetime SP of 3 million will be refunded 2,636,000 SP; the other 354,000 SP will be in a nonrecoverable "Sunk Cost" SP tier. I believe this is a fair middle ground in the debate of respec vs no respec since it allows players a few respecs (1,000 SP isn't too big of a loss), while at the same time discouraging players from respecing (respecing 8 times would total 8,772,000 SP in sunk costs).
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 635	Posted - 2013.03.15 09:51:00 - [19] - Quote It's not EVE lore, its a concept that every action to take will have consequences, both good and bad. In a way it reflects real life but into the game world, that's why I like it.
Shledder Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 5	Posted - 2013.03.15 10:11:00 - [20] - Quote By EVE lore i meant the argument of "well EVE doesn't let you do it" or "this is New Eden; there are no respecs." Pokey, what you described was what I was referring to self-actualization: the mentality of "I want something that challenges myself." In this case, some people like being challenged to learn all the mechanics of the game and figuring out full game play for how they will spend every skill point; others (like myself) don't like the opportunity cost of such planning. To further my point on that whole spiel, if you don't want to respec and take pride in never using a respec, by all means do that. Now ask yourself this question: "If others are allowed to respec, will it put me at a disadvantage?" Under the system I proposed, I don't believe it would. On a side note, you say you want video games to reflect real life. This I don't believe I will ever understand. I play video games to escape reality and enjoy the freedom they bring, but that's off topic...

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 635	Posted - 2013.03.15 10:15:00 - [21] - Quote Well like you said obviously we have different visions for how the game should pan out in the regards to the skill system, so I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 260	Posted - 2013.03.15 11:27:00 - [22] - Quote All respec ideas are stupid and will never ever happen. There's not even a point in discussing this to death again because it's just not going to happen. Period. Now what could be cool would be a learning boost system like in EvE - once a year/6 months/monthly (up for debate) you get to select a specific set of skills that you'd like to focus on and the SP cost for all of them is lowered but the SP cost for everything else is raised. This way if you balls up by speccing into something you don't use/want, you can quickly recoup your losses by speccing into the thing you've decided you do want. However, the BIG point here that should be noted by EVERYONE is that there are no useless skills. You may wish you hadn't put all 350k of your starter SP into grenades but once you've got some of your other skills up too, that suddenly becomes awesome.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 42	Posted - 2013.03.15 11:45:00 - [23] - Quote Django Quik wrote: All respec ideas are stupid and will never ever happen. There's not even a point in discussing this to death again because it's just not going to happen. Period. Now what could be cool would be a learning boost system like in EvE - once a year/6 months/monthly (up for debate) you get to select a specific set of skills that you'd like to focus on and the SP cost for all of them is lowered but the SP cost for everything else is raised. This way if you balls up by speccing into something you don't use/want, you can quickly recoup your losses by speccing into the thing you've decided you do want. However, the BIG point here that should be noted by EVERYONE is that there are no useless skills. You may wish you hadn't put all 350k of your starter SP into grenades but once you've got some of your other skills up too, that suddenly becomes awesome. Sounds fair to me. However, there are skills I would rather not have such as swarm launcher 1 (part of the heavy starter I believe) or even some that I chose including SMG sharpshooter and unfortunately 40k of SP is quite a few matches, 6 or 7 games of skirmish and I don't get that much time to play 2 or 3 matches a day, never mind twice that and I'm certain there are others in this ship.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 262	Posted - 2013.03.15 12:12:00 - [24] - Quote I still don't think we should be able to remove SP from something. 40k isn't that much - you earn that in less than 2 days from passive alone. Also, sidearm sharpshooter is awesome, especially if your primary is AV or shotgun with pants range.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 89	Posted - 2013.03.15 12:20:00 - [25] - Quote Django and myself were talking about this earlier its not the just the clone that learns the skill its the operator for want of a better word and you just cant unlearn something . No skill points are wasted in the long run. There only wasted if you aren't going to stick around and move on to anothe game in a weeks time .
Charlotte O'Dell Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 47	Posted - 2013.03.15 15:03:00 - [26] - Quote Shledder wrote: By EVE lore i meant the argument of "well EVE doesn't let you do it" or "this is New Eden; there are no respecs." Pokey, what you described was what I was referring to self-actualization: the mentality of "I want something that challenges myself." In this case, some people like being challenged to learn all the mechanics of the game and figuring out full game play for how they will spend every skill point; others (like myself) don't like the opportunity cost of such planning. To further my point on that whole spiel, if you don't want to respec and take pride in never using a respec, by all means do that. Now ask yourself this question: "If others are allowed to respec, will it put me at a disadvantage?" Under the system I proposed, I don't believe it would. On a side note, you say you want video games to reflect real life. This I don't believe I will ever understand. I play video games to escape reality and enjoy the freedom they bring, but that's off topic... Everybody gets one respec.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1697	Posted - 2013.03.15 17:05:00 - [27] - Quote RINON114 wrote: The tools might be there but not everybody knows how to use them. The way a respec should work is like when somebody retrains for a job they haven't done in years or even just a few months. For example: Three months ago I started learning how to use a 3D application called Sketchup. I went through a few days of making stuff and watching tutorials then I had to leave it for a while to do something else. I went back to Sketchup a week ago and found that only the basic knowledge remained, none of the more advanced stuff because I didn't stick with it or learn it for long enough. The same is true in Dust, if you learn a skill and don't use it you should be able to forget it in some capacity. I see a problem with your analogy there. In real life, when you retrain for a new profession, you never really forget what you already trained from your previous profession. It is with you for the rest of your life and the time you wasted training the old profession is forever gone and you will never get it back. Take me for example. I have spent a good 5 years after high school training and working in Medical Office Administration (medical billing, managing appointments, etc.) along with what I have trained from being a Pharmacy Technician. But the profession didn't suit me anymore. So I am no cross training to become an aircraft mechanic with an Airframe & Powerplant License. It's a 2-year course I am studying and so far it's making me wonder "Why didn't I think of this before?" But oh well, I lost a handful of years and I will never see them again and I still have medical knowledge and my old degree. So I look at it this way. If my new profession doesn't turn out too well, at least I have my old profession to fall back on in case the medical industry improves. So you see, not all is lost and I just get to wear more hats.
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 24	Posted - 2013.03.15 17:43:00 - [28] - Quote There's no need, if you train skills you later regret you can still train the ones you do want.
BOZ MR BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 23	Posted - 2013.03.15 17:49:00 - [29] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: We already have a respec option. Biomass your char and you will get a new one! Yoou will also be able to skill again whatever you like! Isn't that awesome? Thats what I did with my first one.


Pages: 1 :: [one page]